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weird Mobile crane mating ritual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soG5ihDaiFE
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Oct 21, 2015 19:27
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41QMaJqxqIo
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Oct 21, 2015 21:06
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Every one of these disasters begins with someone opening a valve. There's your problem.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:30
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Ban All Valves.
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Oct 22, 2015 00:47
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#notallvalves
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Oct 22, 2015 00:51
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Opening a valve, closing a valve, leaving the valve open when it should be closed, leaving the valve closed when it should be open... I woulda' put in a Rosemount level transmitter with HART instead of that janky float and tape measure system. (4-20mA signal proportional to the tank level, HART digital signal for the calculated tank volume)
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Oct 22, 2015 00:58
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Three-Phase posted:Opening a valve, closing a valve, leaving the valve open when it should be closed, leaving the valve closed when it should be open... Do those cost money? Because there's your reason they weren't using them.
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Oct 22, 2015 01:00
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flosofl posted:Do those cost money? Because there's your reason they weren't using them. I think around $1000 for the meter. I'm assuming there's some kind of hatches or ports in the top of the tank that it can be installed in. If you had to drain the tank, and drill/tap and install a port that'll cost much more. And it's probably all got to be all explosion proof or have an intrinsically safe electrical barrier because the top of that gas tank might be Class-I Division-2. So then it's a couple of thousand for that... and then you need to run cable for the 4-20mA loop from the PLC in their control room out there, and that will need to be in conduit or buried but you sure as hell can't just leave it draped on the ground... and if it's a long run you'll need thicker twisted pair shielded cable or run a remote I/O drop to where the tanks are... So yeah, it'll probably cost at lease a couple thousand dollars for each tank. Not including configuring/comissioning the level meters, modifying the PLC system like adding additional I/O, software modifications, HMI (human-machine interface) modifications, alarm settings and alarm responses, and testing. And that doesn't include a high-level and low-level float switches that probably needs to be installed. And you might even want redundancy so you put more than one level sensor on the tank. So yeah, not very cheap at all if you want a professional job. AND you might even want to install electronic flowmeters on the pipelines while you're at it. That's gonna be a lot of money too. So modernizing the whole tank farm could get into the six-figure range. (Seven if it's ABB equipment.) Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 01:22
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Six figures? Is it legally required? Did the customer / insurance ask for it? No? Ok, safety first, we were safe enough in the first place.
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Oct 22, 2015 01:58
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But but but you're operations are safer, you can accurately know your inventory at all times, there are no more moving parts... 
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Oct 22, 2015 02:04
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flosofl posted:Do those cost money? Because there's your reason they weren't using them. Hell yeah, that's why I never use condoms. Save a buck or two, disappear if something goes wrong. 
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Oct 22, 2015 02:18
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FIRST TIME posted:Hell yeah, that's why I never use condoms. Save a buck or two, disappear if something goes wrong. Do you own a small coal mine or chemical plant or something?
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Oct 22, 2015 02:23
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What I want to know is how much all that poo poo costs compared to the cost of the gigantic explosion that destroyed basically their entire facility and all their inventory. I mean, it can't possibly come close, can it?
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Oct 22, 2015 02:41
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Buff Skeleton posted:What I want to know is how much all that poo poo costs compared to the cost of the gigantic explosion that destroyed basically their entire facility and all their inventory. I mean, it can't possibly come close, can it? companies, especially publicly traded ones, are Very Bad at risk assessment. potential total loss pales in comparison to definite reductions in profit margin.
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Oct 22, 2015 02:43
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There is nothing wrong with a float and tape per se. An internal float system of some sort is often leaned on as the most reliable sort of level device assuming the service is compatible, but that's a lot like saying something is the least dangerous death trap. gently caress level meters, none of them work right. That's why the tank expert talks about layers of protection. zedprime fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 02:53
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Enourmo posted:companies, especially publicly traded ones, are Very Bad at risk assessment. potential total loss pales in comparison to definite reductions in profit margin. People in general are terrible at risk assessment. People are lazy, and will always look for ways to implement short-cuts. Nebulous might-happens get far less weight in the should I/shouldn't I heuristic than "how do I make this easier/more convenient/faster." It's a real issue when setting up security policies and protocols in Information Security. I imagine it's the same kind of struggle when developing physical safety policies.
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Oct 22, 2015 02:54
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Three-Phase posted:I think around $1000 for the meter. I'm assuming there's some kind of hatches or ports in the top of the tank that it can be installed in. If you had to drain the tank, and drill/tap and install a port that'll cost much more. And it's probably all got to be all explosion proof or have an intrinsically safe electrical barrier because the top of that gas tank might be Class-I Division-2. So then it's a couple of thousand for that... and then you need to run cable for the 4-20mA loop from the PLC in their control room out there, and that will need to be in conduit or buried but you sure as hell can't just leave it draped on the ground... and if it's a long run you'll need thicker twisted pair shielded cable or run a remote I/O drop to where the tanks are... Ah bullshit, engineering says we can do it with a couple light switches and a piece of SO cord.
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Oct 22, 2015 02:57
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Three-Phase posted:AND you might even want to install electronic flowmeters on the pipelines while you're at it. That's gonna be a lot of money too. So modernizing the whole tank farm could get into the six-figure range. (Seven if it's ABB equipment.)
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Oct 22, 2015 03:31
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Oct 22, 2015 05:31
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I think it's a diamond python. Totally barely dangerous to people.
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Oct 22, 2015 05:36
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Three-Phase posted:
Its about $30,000 to outfit and commission single tank with Rosemount gauging.
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Oct 22, 2015 05:42
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Gorilla Salad posted:I think it's a diamond python. Totally barely dangerous to people. flosofl posted:People in general are terrible at risk assessment.  (While Diamond Pythons are apparently pretty chill, I'd still probably cautiously different pump before hooning out of the services station without checking for oncoming traffic because its essential I mess around with the radio volume for a bit)
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Oct 22, 2015 13:25
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Bernie I told you to "Snake the pipes" not "Pipe a snake" The road cone of caution is just icing on this.
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Oct 22, 2015 14:00
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VendaGoat posted:Bernie I told you to "Snake the pipes" not "Pipe a snake"
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Oct 22, 2015 14:12
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kalstrams posted:maybe it's there to be used for self-defence NEW AT SHELL! Because we care about our customers, at each island we now provide a state of the art self service DEFENSE SNAKE (TM) by Omni consumer products. In case of mugger, identity thief, or religious extremists, grasp the snake firmly by the tail, and utilize in a whipping motion to and fro with vigor. The patented "squishy squeeze" (TM) mechanism will disable the Assailant. DEFENSE SNAKE (TM) , the ultimate in gas pump security, brought to you by SHELL and Omni consumer products.
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Oct 22, 2015 14:20
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SneakyFrog posted:NEW AT SHELL! 
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Oct 22, 2015 14:26
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thank you, i was giggling the whole time writing it.
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Oct 22, 2015 14:26
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SneakyFrog posted:NEW AT SHELL!  
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Oct 22, 2015 14:34
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you idiot i told you to fill it up with viperless gas
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Oct 22, 2015 15:02
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how did you get access to my MGS5 screenshot library
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Oct 22, 2015 15:13
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Dewgy posted:you idiot i told you to fill it up with viperless gas hullunkurinen
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Oct 22, 2015 15:15
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SneakyFrog posted:NEW AT SHELL!  post right here
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Oct 22, 2015 17:21
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SneakyFrog posted:In case of mugger, identity thief, or religious extremists, grasp the snake firmly by the tail, and utilize in a whipping motion to and fro with vigor. * Guarantee not applicable for extremist Pentecostals.
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Oct 22, 2015 17:41
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I can confirm that I'm lazy and will take a shortcut where possible.
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Oct 22, 2015 17:47
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Buff Skeleton posted:What I want to know is how much all that poo poo costs compared to the cost of the gigantic explosion that destroyed basically their entire facility and all their inventory. I mean, it can't possibly come close, can it? The cost for adding safety measures comes directly out of the company's pocket. Replacement costs after the gigantic explosion come from the insurance company. That is the difference.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:25
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CollegeCop posted:The cost for adding safety measures comes directly out of the company's pocket. Unless the insurance co proves negligence and pays out nothing beyond medical coverage?
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Oct 22, 2015 18:27
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HEY NONG MAN posted:Unless the insurance co proves negligence and pays out nothing beyond medical coverage? WE nor OUR employees weren't the negligent ones, Shill Dynmanics sub-contractors and Pilate's Consulting firms supervisors are the ones who made the call to do this terrible terrible thing... \ :businessessay:
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Oct 22, 2015 18:33
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To be fair, usually poo poo like "should we fix this old valve" this never makes it to Corporate Risk Management, and they'll either say "gently caress yes fix that" or "we should probably fix this worse thing first". But if Risk Management finds out about your 50 year old pipe, well someone's getting yelled at by their boss because now we're down for a week while we replace the pipe. So instead you have midlevel management cutting corners because admitting a fix is needed would look bad. Take the Phosgene gas shelters at Dow. They explicitly didn't add one because the concern was if they admitted they needed on at this facility, they'd have to run it up the chain and it would get installed at every facility. Then you have the entire business division pissed at you because you forced them to install gas shelters which comes out of their budget. (And that means they have to cut costs somewhere else...maybe their 50 year old pipe won't get fixed this year....again)
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Oct 22, 2015 18:33
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ReagaNOMNOMicks posted:weird Mobile crane mating ritual "Bite the asphalt, you dirty whore  "
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Oct 22, 2015 18:35
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 12:12 |
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Clearly the standard practice should be to anonymously report it at a sister site managed by someone you dislike, and see what happens. If it gets rolled out to the whole company, everyone blames them, and you get a safety improvement. If it gets rolled out to them exclusively, you can ask for it safely without everyone breathing down your neck for forcing it through globally.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:37
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