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Percentage checks don't make sense in a game where passing or failing blocks you forever out of a unique dialogue branch or a quest solution. Great job rolling those invisible dice, rear end in a top hat, maybe in the next playthrough you get to see the outcome you were interested in! They are fine for generic stuff with no real consequences, like asking a merchant for discount or what have you, imho.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:17
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Isn't that how Human Revolution does the dialogue encounters? Match the response to personality and voilá.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:17
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GuyUpNorth posted:Isn't that how Human Revolution does the dialogue encounters? Match the response to personality and voilá. There was this mini game for dialogue that never made sense and I always failed it. Good design guys.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:22
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Nevets posted:Percentage checks wouldn't be so bad if it weren't a single test. If you had to pass 3 out of 5 checks then savescumming to make longshots would be really tedious and losing on a 90% check would be very rare. See also: Deus Ex Human Revolution. The talking people down sections in that are well done and you can get them right by looking at the person and thinking about how they might react. Or you can install the social retard implant and look at numbers. Tenzarin posted:There was this mini game for dialogue that never made sense and I always failed it. Good design guys. Eh? What minigame? You just have a conversation with them and pick the sensible answers and watch how they react? Does the aspergers implant make you play DDR to win the conversation or something? I never used it.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:23
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OwlFancier posted:Eh? What minigame? You just have a conversation with them and pick the sensible answers and watch how they react? There was a mini game where like you use your robots parts to sense their feelings or something. the "Social Enhancer" augmentation. " Info: The C.A.S.I.E. implant provides its user with a direct monitor of behavior patterns and likely responses from conversational subjects. In real terms, this means the user can gain an insight into which conversational methods to employ in any given situation, discover subtle clues and intentions, and view a virtual 'persuasion' gauge for their target. The Computer-Assisted Social Interaction Enhancer is a cranial implant that ties directly in to the user's existing Eye-Know Retinal Prosthesis to relay environmental and personal data about targeted individuals, in order to assist social interaction. The C.A.S.I.E. implant uses an Optical Psychophysiological Responses Analyzer (aka 'Optical Polygraph') to gauge a rudimentary psychological profile based on facial expression, body language, and environmental cues. Combined with the advanced Emotional Intelligence Enhancer software engine, the system can deliver real-time predictive data directly to the user, enabling them to correctly interpret responses and draw the desired result from face-to-face conversations. For more information, and a list of Personality Types, see Social Enhancer. Activation Cost: 2 Praxis Points Emotional Intelligence EnhancerEdit Emotionalintelligenceenhancer Upgrade Requirement: Social Enhancer Augmentation Upgrade Cost: N/A Use: Analyze and persuade people into following a certain course of action Activation: Contextual Energy Consumption: None Info: The Emotional Intelligence Enhancer combines several systems, including an Optical Polygraph, Personality Analyze, and Synthetic Pheromones Propagator. Optical Polygraph: Appears as a meter in the upper left corner of your vision. Indicates whether you are swaying your target to your way of thinking by reading involuntary reactions like blush response, pupil dilation, and increased heart rate. Personality Analyzer: Displays helpful insights about the personality you are dealing with on the right side of your vision. Synthetic Pheromones Propogator: Releases bio-engineered pheromones designed to influence behavior. As a subject talks, keep track of the number of times each personality type (alpha, beta, omega) lights up in the meter. When prompted, select the pheromone most likely to influence it. " Explain it bitch. Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 18:25
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I just used my "robot parts" in my actual human brain to figure out that when the dude looks visibly uncomfortable when you point out the holes in his plan you might be getting somewhere.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:31
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frajaq posted:It's less dislike and more don't really care about it. It's more effort to balance something most players won't care if it's missing from the game Yeah. I think traits are cool just for more character creation variety options but tbh I barely ever use 'em just because the cost/benefit isn't really worth it. If they did something like 'you're a cyborg' and there's a fully fleshed out system of repairing damaged parts and having implants but not being able to ever use chems/food that'd be one thing but it's usually just "+% to DPS on this gun, attribute loss in exchange." The only one I take is wild wasteland or whatever it's called. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 18:37
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graynull posted:I guess I just don't understand the '100%' mentality, for lack of a better term. I don't mind failing a check, or not being able to get absolutely everything in one run. Though I will say one area I do reload spam sometimes is terrible AI leading to NPCs or followers just getting butchered for being idiots and just running in to their deaths. Thankfully it sounds like that won't be an issue in FO4. Part of it is that losing the roll is arbitrary (and arbitrary as fun is very YMMV) but usually just isn't interesting. Though another way of looking at it is more like, you put coins into the soda machine, press the button, and it doesn't give you anything. Now if you put in the wrong coins, fine, your mistake. But if the machine just says "no" you're going to want to try again. You want to unlock the (potentially) interesting thing, you know what button to press to open the thing, but sometimes it just says "no" and you can't try again without reloading. All you want is to open the content, but sometimes, even if you've specialized at opening that kind of content, it just says no. Deciding not to press the button, or the button being blocked because of a previous decision (stat investment) is at least an choice or the ramification thereof, however small, like deciding what faction content to do; but a roll isn't. marshmallow creep fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 18:38
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The thing in Deus Ex doesn't make you do a minigame its just got a polygraph thing on screen and when the guy gets emotional or whatever it spikes towards whichever personality type they are.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:39
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Tenzarin posted:There was this mini game for dialogue that never made sense and I always failed it. Good design guys. The minigame being just successfully talking to someone based on how you read their personality? I thought it was pretty well done and if you're terrible at it there's even an aug to let you just hit spacebar and basically have it done for you (that's all CASIE does despite the lengthy description; give you the meter to see their current state and 2nd upgrade lets you hit the pheromones). The heart rate thing or whatever on the left is just to gauge their feelings about what you've previously said. You want stupid speech minigame then Oblivion is your candidate.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:40
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Lotish posted:Part of it is that losing the roll is arbitrary (and arbitrary as fun is very YMMV) but usually just isn't interesting. You want to unlock the (potentially) interesting thing, you know what button to press to open the thing, but sometimes it just says "no" and you can't try again without reloading. All you want is to open the content, but sometimes, even if you've specialized at opening that kind of content, it just says no. Deciding not to press the button, or the button being blocked because of a previous decision (stat investment) is at least an choice or the ramification thereof, however small, like deciding what faction content to do; but a roll isn't. I hope they keep all the lockpicking and hacking minigames with the removal of skills. Everyone just power gamed these minigames and they should just be like that. Moridin920 posted:You want stupid speech minigame then Oblivion is your candidate. I like NV, I don't want to save scum. If I can get the check cool, if not oh well.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:42
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Cheap Shot posted:It's raking in more $$$ than Candy Crush last I heard. How though? Everything is free with no pay timers or any of that poo poo. Are dummies really shelling out for those packs you get free in-game?
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Oct 22, 2015 18:53
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Vikar Jerome posted:How though? Everything is free with no pay timers or any of that poo poo. Are dummies really shelling out for those packs you get free in-game? people have money? jelly?
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Oct 22, 2015 18:54
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Vikar Jerome posted:How though? Everything is free with no pay timers or any of that poo poo. Are dummies really shelling out for those packs you get free in-game? Yes. Yes they are. By the boat load. I don't even want to know how much they're making now they they're selling unlockable characters that are next to impossible to get from the free lunch boxes. Those resource collecting Mr.Handy's are digital gold.
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Oct 22, 2015 19:00
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Nevets posted:Percentage checks wouldn't be so bad if it weren't a single test. If you had to pass 3 out of 5 checks then savescumming to make longshots would be really tedious and losing on a 90% check would be very rare. Alpha
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Oct 22, 2015 19:03
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Sighence posted:Alpha Man I still haven't played this game. Why did it fail?
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Oct 22, 2015 19:06
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Tenzarin posted:Man I still haven't played this game. Why did it fail?
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Oct 22, 2015 19:09
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Vikar Jerome posted:How though? Everything is free with no pay timers or any of that poo poo. Are dummies really shelling out for those packs you get free in-game? That's the way all free to play games make money, a minority of rich idiots with no impulse control. I remember a depressing article about wealthy fans of that phone game with the medieval armies who don't even see spending a few grand to get a slight boost in a video game as a big deal. They compared it favourably with the amount they would spend in a bar or on faberge eggs or whatever else rich people like. Tenzarin posted:Man I still haven't played this game. Why did it fail? It did the whole 'choices and consequences' thing bioware likes to go on about much better than any bioware game, and had a really good dialogue system, but unfortunately everything else about it was pretty bad. Especially the terrible mini games and clunky combat.
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Oct 22, 2015 19:11
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graynull posted:I guess I just don't understand the '100%' mentality, for lack of a better term. I don't mind failing a check, or not being able to get absolutely everything in one run. Though I will say one area I do reload spam sometimes is terrible AI leading to NPCs or followers just getting butchered for being idiots and just running in to their deaths. Thankfully it sounds like that won't be an issue in FO4. Did I gently caress up? Okay. I can deal with that, it's fun to roll with that punch sometimes. (Other times it's lame, like a companion dying pointlessly, and I'll reload even if it's my fault.) Is my character not good enough? Okay. I'm responsible for that, I'll deal. (This is the flat check, it is the best numerical solution to an awkward problem.) But if I failed because of a single dice roll... I'm going to be deeply unsatisfied. Especially in extreme cases. Imagine I'm a speech specialist and I'm trying to tell this guy not to jump off a bridge. I've got a 90% success rate because I'm really good... but I fail anyway and he jumps. Something terrible happened and I had absolutely no control over it. I did everything I could setting up my character, picking the right options... but the game still just said "nope, you failed". Okay, maybe that's realistic, you fail for reasons outside your control sometimes, but that's a deeply unsatisfying realism that is not present anywhere else in the game. Of course, the real solution is to do away with speech checks altogether. The best speech check in Fallout that I've seen was hidden at the end of Lonesome Road. You could talk Ulysses out with a flat check, which was boring, or if you collected all his audio tapes, listened to his whole backstory, you had the option to use his own words against him. But that wasn't an instant win option. He proceed to confront you on each point and you had to actually give the right answer, when most of the options were wrong- often for subtle reasons. You, the player, had to pay attention to what he said and what he did and point out the contradictions. If you gave the wrong answer and failed to demonstrate that you understood, you would fail and battle would begin. I don't know if that's too hard or awkward in most cases, but at the very least I think they should set up stuff at least that complex for the much lauded talking-down-the-final-boss segments. Let a speech check unlock the option if you need to, but there should be something more interesting than clicking through a couple options and winning. (That said, the ability to win New Vegas with a barter check is basically the best thing for how absurd it is.)
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Oct 22, 2015 19:15
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:a combination of overscoped project (until Chris Avellone forcibly turned things around) and sega loving with Obsidian in general to the point where crash patches were denied being pushed through. Sega was actually very patient with Obsidian, okaying constant delays. From what I've read, Obsidian was just a mess.
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Oct 22, 2015 19:15
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I like random chance in games. I don't really like it in every conversation though. It feels like it should have soft-hard caps, like if you have a really low score, you should auto-fail, if you are close to the pass, you have a % chance to succeed and if you exceed the the point, you have an autopass.
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Oct 22, 2015 19:41
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evil_bunnY posted:Didn't Jinxed also apply to your party? Not that it matters much once you get a gauss pistol and the 2 AP reducing perk/trait. 
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Oct 22, 2015 19:44
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I would honestly prefer to get rid of speech altogether and just have perk and stat checks. Have most of the stuff that used to be speech moved to various Charisma oriented perks, or a flat check of Charisma itself. Move a lot of other checks to perks that make sense, like using your knowledge of guns to get better barter prices from someone selling junk, or your knowledge of chems to figure out someone is an addict and use that as leverage over them.
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Oct 22, 2015 19:48
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sector_corrector posted:Move a lot of other checks to perks that make sense, like using your knowledge of guns to get better barter prices from someone selling junk, or your knowledge of chems to figure out someone is an addict and use that as leverage over them. 
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Oct 22, 2015 19:59
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sector_corrector posted:I would honestly prefer to get rid of speech altogether and just have perk and stat checks. Have most of the stuff that used to be speech moved to various Charisma oriented perks, or a flat check of Charisma itself. Move a lot of other checks to perks that make sense, like using your knowledge of guns to get better barter prices from someone selling junk, or your knowledge of chems to figure out someone is an addict and use that as leverage over them. Speaking of those stats though... I'm pissed about intelligence. I like playing an intelligent character, and I think a lot of the intelligence perks are pretty nice... but besides the perks, it seems like intelligence only penalizes you. More XP in a world with level scaling isn't actually an advantage at all. Judging by past Bethesda games, it just gets you to a place where the game feels weird and hosed up faster. Just based on past experience, I'm likely going to be wishing for an xp reducing mod... which would be silly if I made a high int character. Why not make a 1 int dullard to achieve the desired effect. My gameplay preferences and roleplaying preferences have been put at direct odds! It sucks.
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Oct 22, 2015 19:59
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Eiba posted:
Now now, I'm sure that they tested and balanced this to perfection so that playing the game as intended doesn't make the overall experience less enjoyable [I slowly turn into an IRL troll face].
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Oct 22, 2015 20:06
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Eiba posted:Special checks for various things would make more sense in this game where it looks like we're more expected to boost our special stats over the course of the game. I'm hoping they put alot of checks for skills in the game early, because you can start with 10 int and 4 in everything else. If you cant lower skills to 0. If you start with 28 points. They fixed alot of the scaling difficulty because it was also in Skyrim and people dont complain, Oblivion was just brutal about it. The thing about oblivion is that you could make the 4 hit dagger that could kill anything in the game in 4 hits. It made the scaling pointless and theres numerous ways to become completely immune to dmg in oblivion. Enchanted dagger with 14 frost dmg 14 fire dmg 14 shock dmg soul trap 1 sec weakness to fire 100% 1 sec duration weakness to frost 100% 1 sec duration weakness to shock 100% 1 sec duration weakness to magic 100% 1 sec duration The weakness stacks and keeps doing more and more dmg. So the first hit is 42 dmg, the next one is 126 dmg, the next hit is 362 dmg, and the last hit is 1000+.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:13
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:Most of the attention to the brand itself wouldn't be possible without the actual games themselves. This isn't exactly cause for alarm because Zenimax isn't Japanese investment banker-level stupid. The worst that'll happen is that there's a new high-margin low budget phone game companion with each entry in the series, instead of going full retard like Konami, who are on the fast track for failure because all of their brands have suffered severe neglect and nobody gives a poo poo about anything but Metal Gear anymore; people will stop giving a poo poo as well if they churn out lovely entries in the series or neglect the high-budget entries entirely. Yeah, I'm just scared this could affect future Fallout games. You never know if one title could go bad and either "no one cared about the mobile game this year, fallout must be dead" or "we're making more money with the simple mobile game than the big game this year, why are we bothering with the big budget ones?" Hopefully, the worse it could get is tie in some app stuff like that lovely ifruit thing for GTAV, but never underestimate greedy stupidity for some of these companies in trying to find a short road to profit.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:13
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Crabtree posted:Yeah, I'm just scared this could affect future Fallout games. You never know if one title could go bad and either "no one cared about the mobile game this year, fallout must be dead" or "we're making more money with the simple mobile game than the big game this year, why are we bothering with the big budget ones?" Hopefully, the worse it could get is tie in some app stuff like that lovely ifruit thing for GTAV, but never underestimate greedy stupidity for some of these companies in trying to find a short road to profit. I agree, capitalism must be destroyed.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:18
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marktheando posted:I agree, capitalism must be destroyed. But we don't have the enough nukes yet to let the nerds live out their post apocalyptic fantasies! Surely they will be prepared for the worst with their Zombie Survival guides and Urban Warrior brand weapons. Crabtree fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 20:20
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I wonder if russia survived fallout.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:24
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If for some reason any of you nerds don't own some of the Fallout games/dlc/whatever Steam is having a weekend sale on the franchise.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:25
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Faded Mars posted:If for some reason any of you nerds don't own some of the Fallout games/dlc/whatever Steam is having a weekend sale on the franchise. Fallout tactics is amazing.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:28
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Tenzarin posted:Fallout tactics is amazing. But it has furry Deathclaws. 
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Oct 22, 2015 20:29
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Eiba posted:Why you failed is important. I guess I would understand more if the system people preferred (at least between the two) wasn't the exact same one minus any chance to succeed at all if they didn't meet a strict cap. I see it more as a bonus, and not as a system I have to slavishly try to exploit. Not intended to be a criticism; people play how they want. I guess it's just a matter of perspective, which is why I asked why people didn't like it in the first place. I would prefer some more dynamic dialogue unlocks besides stat point checks. Things like people you've helped or quests you've resolved in a certain way. I was always a little annoyed (but not surprised) in NV that you couldn't reference any of the DLC or things you'd done to anyone discussing people or events that happened in them.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:29
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Tenzarin posted:Fallout tactics is ok.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:32
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It really depends if you like the turn based combat of fallout 1 and 2. Because that is all that it is. It still is the first fallout game with multiplayer.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:39
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Tenzarin posted:I wonder if russia survived fallout. I like Metro Last Light 
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Oct 22, 2015 20:57
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I enjoyed Fallout Tactics when it came out and recently completed another playthrough while waiting for FO4. It has its flaws, to be sure, but its still a pretty solid game. Game design has evolved considerably since it came out though so if you're just pkaying for the first time you may not enjoy it as much.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:58
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Eiba posted:Special checks for various things would make more sense in this game where it looks like we're more expected to boost our special stats over the course of the game. Actually, I believe I read in an article that they have FINALLY REMOVED Level scaling, and are having each area have their own set levels, which would be rad, because even New Vegas had trouble with that (mostly with DLC like old world blues, but still. ) 
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Oct 22, 2015 21:01
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