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I think that boss will actually use whatever name you give the lion. There's some post script in an Ultimania or something about how Ultimecia coopted it as a boss because its the only thing Squall respects or something ridiculous to try and plug the holes that lead to the theory about Ultimecia being Rinoa, even though that works so much better with the some of the intended themes about friends and family, and sorceresses being outsiders. Compared to the Squall is dead thing which is some Never Be Game Over poo poo with people trying to desperately justify spending 40 hours with something they disliked by pretending it never existed in the first place.
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Oct 23, 2015 17:35
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My assumption (which isn't really a theory) is that Ultimecia is indeed Rinoa hundreds of years later but that the reveal itself was removed by editorial demand in a late stage of development, so most of the clues throughout the story were left there.
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Oct 23, 2015 17:43
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Quick question on Final Fantasy IV. When Cecil becomes a paladin he is set back to level one, but do his stats from Dark Knight levels carry over?
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Oct 23, 2015 17:45
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Meridian posted:Quick question on Final Fantasy IV. When Cecil becomes a paladin he is set back to level one, but do his stats from Dark Knight levels carry over? no, it's actually a brand new character. It doesn't reset to level one. They remove dark knight cecil, and add paladin cecil. You can game genie dark knight cecil back in and have both.
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Oct 23, 2015 17:46
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Dubious posted:no, it's actually a brand new character. It doesn't reset to level one. They remove dark knight cecil, and add paladin cecil. You can game genie dark knight cecil back in and have both. Thanks. No point really in leveling before the mountain then?
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Oct 23, 2015 17:47
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not really, no.
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Oct 23, 2015 17:51
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Rinoa is Ultimecia is dumb and bad
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Oct 23, 2015 17:59
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Lessail posted:Rinoa is Ultimecia is dumb and bad Not as dumb and bad as Squall is Dead.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:08
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What about Zell is Cid
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Oct 23, 2015 18:12
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Or Selphie is Quistis even.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:13
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Everyone is Squall.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:28
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Well, the Griever thing really is just to mind-gently caress with Squall. "Oh, this lion symbolism that you're such a fan of, which is over all of your poo poo, and which represents a lot of what you strive to be? I took that concept and made it into an actual physical thing. Have fun fighting the thing that most accurately represents everything you believe in." In not so many words as I used here, this idea was clearer in the original Japanese game itself (her dialogue as she makes that phase transition, and Griever's scan text), and muddled in localization by making it seem like Ultimecia was just making GBS threads out a GF. Post-facto Ultimania clarifications have nothing to do with that particular bit of confusion. That's not to say that Ultimecia is well characterized (although she gets a fair bit more screen time once you realize that disc 1-2 Edea is actually her). FF8 has plenty of plot holes or unexplained things (or overexplained things that didn't need an explanation and make the whole weaker by having one that doesn't entirely make sense itself), and Ultimecia's one of them. I happen to agree that Rinoa being Ultimecia would be good and thematically appropriate and actually quite interesting writing. But between Word Of God (via Ultimania) and the general established big-picture incoherence of FF8's writing in general, I'm sure it's more a case of fans thinking more about the writing than the authors did. It would have been a good idea in retrospect but I don't think it was intended and I don't think it's canonically the case.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:33
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zedprime posted:I think that boss will actually use whatever name you give the lion. There's some post script in an Ultimania or something about how Ultimecia coopted it as a boss because its the only thing Squall respects or something ridiculous to try and plug the holes that lead to the theory about Ultimecia being Rinoa, even though that works so much better with the some of the intended themes about friends and family, and sorceresses being outsiders. Devil's advocate I guess because I like the idea of Rinoa=Ultimecia too, but it says in-game if you scan Griever that Ultimecia just pulled it out of Squall's head. He draws courage from the crest, it's his "lion heart" which he reluctantly places in Rinoa's care. The symbolism is all about Squall and how he relates to people, it doesn't make a lot of sense IMO for Rinoa-Ultimecia to be throwing it back in his face.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:41
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When I was a kid I named the ring FUCKER and it was fun fighting GF FUCKER
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Oct 23, 2015 18:43
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I named the ring Sephiroth
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Oct 23, 2015 18:44
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Dissidia Ultimecia a best.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:44
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Lessail posted:Rinoa is Ultimecia is dumb and bad Rinoa is Ultimecia is great because Squall spends the first half of the game telling her to gently caress off, the second half of the game crying about how he can't have her now that she's in a coma, she spends eternity pining after him, and then the game ends by Squall killing her. i cry like every time
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Oct 23, 2015 19:22
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Dubious posted:When I was a kid I named the ring FUCKER and it was fun fighting GF FUCKER raiden pulls off his dogtag to reveal he was DONGS MACKENZIE the entire time
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Oct 23, 2015 19:27
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Vil posted:Well, the Griever thing really is just to mind-gently caress with Squall. "Oh, this lion symbolism that you're such a fan of, which is over all of your poo poo, and which represents a lot of what you strive to be? I took that concept and made it into an actual physical thing. Have fun fighting the thing that most accurately represents everything you believe in." In not so many words as I used here, this idea was clearer in the original Japanese game itself (her dialogue as she makes that phase transition, and Griever's scan text), and muddled in localization by making it seem like Ultimecia was just making GBS threads out a GF. Post-facto Ultimania clarifications have nothing to do with that particular bit of confusion. R=U is one of those things people concluded based on several different facts and then connect the dots in their head. Like Braska's Calm lasting ten years. It's said nowhere in the game but a ton of people, including myself, believed that for the longest time. It's said absolutely nowhere in the game but we took the whole "Sin was defeated ten years ago and now Yuna and others are setting out to defeat it so it must have just comeback recently" and made a faulty extrapolation. Of course this idea had holes already given that Sin was already back a year ago when Chappu died and Lulu has been on two precious Pilgrimages to defeat Sin but eh. R=U meanwhile is founded not only on the Griever thing but the game's repeatedly stated fact that a Sorceress must pass on her powers before dying. People took that idea and concluded a Sorceress is immortal. Not that the game ever specifies when Ultimecia is from but most people assume it's well passed a normal human lifespan so our heroes will be long dead by the time she comes to power. Admittedly, it's easy to see why people think Sorceresses can live forever. Laguna and co. loving sent Adel into space. Once she was sealed they could have dropped her rear end in a volcano or something but they didn't so we must assume she just couldn't die and thus sealing her away was the only option available to them. Then at the endgame Ultimecia travels back in time with Squall to give her power to Edea because she HAS to. She traveled through time itself before she could die because that's ho their powers work. Small wonder people think Rinoa could live centuries or millennia so long as she refused to give up that power. They never really do touch on this. If Rinoa or someone was just killed out in the middle of nowhere by falling rocks, is their power just going to go poof like when non-Immortals killed Immortals in Highlander? NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 20:59
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I think Rinoa = Ultimecia is interesting to think about and is circumstanially supported by numerous plot threads (Griever, potential sorceress immortality, GF memory loss) but there's nothing conclusive so I don't fault anyone who doesn't buy it. If you give a poo poo about whatever poop they wrote in Ultimania you need your head examined though
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Oct 23, 2015 21:13
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The overall plot is so leaky with holes and threads and statements that don't lead anywhere because the game was crammed with too many ideas to be very cohesive. I can see why players want to make the somewhat vague connections in order to pull it altogether in their minds. Power to them.
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Oct 23, 2015 22:11
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The best dropped plot line in FF8 is the really cool mythology/backstory that explains exactly why people are so afraid of the Witches/Sorceress in the first place that the game largely doesn't do anything with and you can only even see if you go out of your way to talk to one npc at two very very specific times in the game.
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Oct 23, 2015 22:17
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FFVIII's story seems like it was constructed by passing a paper around in a circle with each person contributing one line.
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Oct 23, 2015 22:39
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That does explain the part with the purple monkey dishwasher.
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Oct 23, 2015 23:16
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I blame Time Kompression.
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Oct 23, 2015 23:34
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HD DAD posted:FFVIII's story seems like it was constructed by passing a paper around in a circle with each person contributing one line. Well gently caress, now I want to see what would happen if they actually made an RPG's story like that.
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Oct 24, 2015 00:20
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Everyone knows that R=U isn't canon but it's more interesting than the actual story.
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Oct 24, 2015 01:16
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it's still a better game than ff12
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Oct 24, 2015 02:49
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Agreed
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Oct 24, 2015 02:49
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remake ff8 before releasing ff12 HD 
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Oct 24, 2015 02:55
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FF8 is a good, arguably great game And there's a lot of interesting ideas FF8 has, it's just that none of it really coalesces I think the plot of FF8 is a compelling one, in its way, it's just that it's bad barely coherent nonsense because it's pulled at every direction at once
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Oct 24, 2015 03:00
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FF8's not very good, but I respect it.
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Oct 24, 2015 03:09
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FF8 it is the finest surrealist game in the vein of such masterpieces as The Seashell and the Clergyman and if you don't believe Brunel used time-kompression to merge space time to reject the moores of both the past present and future simultaneously to create FF8 then you just don't get how games are made.
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Oct 24, 2015 03:15
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I like that Seifer is secretly a big loser who's life's dream is to be like a character he saw in a movie
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Oct 24, 2015 03:21
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FF8 is mechanically a disaster and the story has too many seams showing from the Frankensteining they had to do to pull it together. I have some fond memories of it but it's not a very good game. This is amazing though.
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Oct 24, 2015 03:28
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Mechanically, FF8 is by far one of the best designed FFs, only really matched by like...FF10 and 12
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Oct 24, 2015 03:42
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Toxxupation posted:Mechanically, FF8 is by far one of the best designed FFs, only really matched by like...FF10 and 12 How do you figure that? The way I see it, Draw/Junction is tedious, discourages use of magic in battle, and makes the game easily breakable through refine. GF attacks are overly powerful but also long timesinks to use. The equipment system is unremarkable which is fine I guess. I find the job system and materia system to be the best mechanic systems in the series. They are easy to learn, difficult to master, and make use of combo synergy. They reward you with strength for using abilities without the FF2/Saga-style randomness and in the case of the job system, they can even reward varied play. bloodychill fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Oct 24, 2015 |
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Oct 24, 2015 04:01
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Toxxupation posted:Mechanically, FF8 is by far one of the best designed FFs, only really matched by like...FF10 and 12 Outside of the really old games, those three are the games I find the least mechanically interesting
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Oct 24, 2015 04:07
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Draw is just irritating, but FF8's pretty much the only FF in existence that is not only able to but is built around being able to beat it at minimum level The junction system is the smartest and most mechanically layered gameplay system that any FF has had before and in a lot of ways since, allowing for a game that you never have to and in fact are actively discouraged from grinding in. Junctioning allows the player to, if they are intelligent and understand its systems and how to manipulate them to their advantage, completely steamroll through the game with zero difficulty, which is exactly how a well-designed gameplay system should be. Its difficulty is modular and is exactly as easy or as hard as the player makes it. It's honestly really clever and still holds up to this day, as evidenced by my having literally just finished it and still loving its gameplay as much as i did when I was 12. It's a really well-designed system. It's a manaless video game- which, especially for its time, was a revolutionary idea, and made magic into both a resource and stat boosts. What's most clever is how the game gated stats behind access to magic, but then included a bunch of backdoors so that a smart player could get access to them early- most notably via Triple Triad, elevating a fun and clever game in its own right and tying it integrally to the base gameplay. There's a lot of things to complain about with FF8. Its gameplay is absolutely 100% not one of them, it's a really fantastically built game that had a bunch of really clever ideas that still haven't really been copied before or since, partially because they're complicated and partially because the game, unfortunately, explained those same systems kinda poorly.
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Oct 24, 2015 04:23
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Junctioning was fairly interesting, but man it needed to be better explained. And the enemy leveling sucked. I'm also not a fan of how Junctioning discouraged the use of spells.
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Oct 24, 2015 04:32
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