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Pickled Tink posted:Should we be concerned that the home team has won every single match so far? It's still early. If the home teams are undefeated after the first two rounds, I could look at shortening the tournament to just a six-round home-and-home vs each divisional opponent (i.e. eliminate the 12 rounds of intradivisional matches), with the playoff semifinals and finals taking place on a neutral site. It seems wrong to otherwise change the rules after the tournament has started though.
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Oct 23, 2015 14:51
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| # ? May 9, 2024 23:37 |
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Don't worry, my team is the home team in our match, so that's sure to buck the trend.
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Oct 23, 2015 14:53
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Jazzimus Prime posted:It's still early. If the home teams are undefeated after the first two rounds, I could look at shortening the tournament to just a six-round home-and-home vs each divisional opponent (i.e. eliminate the 12 rounds of intradivisional matches), with the playoff semifinals and finals taking place on a neutral site. It seems wrong to otherwise change the rules after the tournament has started though. And changing the rules is fine so long as it is between rounds, rather than in the middle of a round of matches. At least then everyone has the same chance of benefiting/losing from them. Hell, you could even hand out bonus points every three or six rounds which would have the effect of lessening the impact of a home team advantage as the tournament goes on. My concern is not at all brought on by the fact that my own team is the visiting team mostly in the first nine rounds. I'm just concerned that at present it may very well be overshadowing the builds etc themselves. Mind you, at least two of the visiting team losses have had appalling builds, so it may not be as bad as I think it is.
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Oct 23, 2015 15:25
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What, precisely, is the actual home field advantage?
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Oct 23, 2015 15:27
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Bad Munki posted:What, precisely, is the actual home field advantage? Pocket sand.
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Oct 23, 2015 15:29
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Bad Munki posted:What, precisely, is the actual home field advantage? A +1 bonus to the highest skill trained. Skills that are already at Grand Master are ignored for the purposes of this calculation, as they cannot be improved further. In the event that multiple skills are tied for the highest non-grandmaster skill rank, the first skill to appear in the arena skills menu receives the bonus. So it's +1 to a single skill, which is certainly an advantage, but shouldn't be an overwhelming one. Pickled Tink posted:My concern is not at all brought on by the fact that my own team is the visiting team mostly in the first nine rounds. I'm just concerned that at present it may very well be overshadowing the builds etc themselves. Mind you, at least two of the visiting team losses have had appalling builds, so it may not be as bad as I think it is. In the interest of fairness, the schedule generator guarantees that all teams will have exactly the same number of home and away matches in the regular season. Some teams may have a front-loaded schedule and some may have a back-loaded schedule, but that's kind of unavoidable. Jazzimus Prime fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 15:47
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I would have thought buffing the Fighter skill a level would have been both easier and fairer.
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Oct 23, 2015 16:13
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Pickled Tink posted:I would have thought buffing the Fighter skill a level would have been both easier and fairer. I have to agree with this one, especially since I don't think the advantage was common knowledge.
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Oct 23, 2015 16:33
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Captaindirtnap posted:I have to agree with this one, especially since I don't think the advantage was common knowledge. In fact, it's not on the site or in the OP in any fashion.
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Oct 23, 2015 16:44
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Those of us who followed the last thread know it was talked about, but I don't think the specifics were laid out there (I wasn't even sure it was implemented until I asked). Going direct highest skill seems pretty damned horrible though. For example, I took wrestling 10 (spoilers), and wrestling 11 won't make much of a difference for me at all since I'm pretty sure almost no one took wrestling, especially not to that extent (Plus my Yeti is huge). I also know a bunch of people took two skills of the same level (Armour and weapon). Boosting the armour skill would have a much different (and smaller) effect on the fight than buffing the weapon skill (In fact, I would have advised selling down the armour skill a point had I known how it worked). Fighting is factored in indirectly and would have been a more effective stand-in place-holder for a morale bonus (With archery for ranged characters?). Pickled Tink fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 16:50
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I think the difference between a rank 3 and a rank 4 skill is lower than the difference between a rank 6 and a rank 7 skill as well, although I'm not sure about that. Might as well let the tournament keep using the same rules, just to see if it actually does matter that much. Can always change how it works for next time.
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Oct 23, 2015 16:56
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Given the randomness of both DF combat and the Arena Challenge process, I really doubt that a +1 to top skill is going to be especially significant. Give it a few rounds, and we'll get a better idea of how decisive it really is. You can't really fairly change it mid-season unless you're at a point where everyone has had the same number of home-field matches.
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Oct 23, 2015 17:12
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Ghostwoods posted:Given the randomness of both DF combat and the Arena Challenge process, I really doubt that a +1 to top skill is going to be especially significant. Give it a few rounds, and we'll get a better idea of how decisive it really is. You can't really fairly change it mid-season unless you're at a point where everyone has had the same number of home-field matches. This. A sample size of 4 is nothing. Let's see how it goes for a round or two imo. (The problem with giving ranks of Fighter skill is it may end up a nerf, as the fighter may take useless attacks of opportunity instead of using their main weapon.)
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Oct 23, 2015 18:22
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Oh, shoot, this started. I was too busy to place bets and remember to update my fighter. I also mixed up whips and scourges.  Sorry, team.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:27
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Ghostwoods posted:Given the randomness of both DF combat and the Arena Challenge process, I really doubt that a +1 to top skill is going to be especially significant. Give it a few rounds, and we'll get a better idea of how decisive it really is. You can't really fairly change it mid-season unless you're at a point where everyone has had the same number of home-field matches. It's a small sample size, but it's actually kind of a major advantage. You have an increased chance to parry if you outskill your enemy as far as I know, which gives a fairly decisive advantage in equal fights. The fact that it's still random desn't make it fair.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:37
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 Going for a liver blow on a dwarf? Low move, but just what one would expect from an elf, I suppose.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:38
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My platinum armor has betrayed me  
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Oct 23, 2015 18:39
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Tunicate posted:My platinum armor has betrayed me And your gold thong did nothing. Not even in the combat log. Edit: poo poo. No, they didnt have gold thongs so I didnt give you one. I tried though  Edit2: On second thought... They are called thongs, so I am assuming it's the poo poo to tie sandals with and not uncomfortable gold wedged in your asscrack. Spermy Smurf fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 18:42
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my dad posted:You have an increased chance to parry if you outskill your enemy as far as I know, which gives a fairly decisive advantage in equal fights. The fact that it's still random desn't make it fair. Yeah, but the fights aren't equal. The entire point of the Arena Challenge is that they're mostly batshit-crazy and ultra-complex. Also, the randomness I'm talking about is in the system, and nothing to do with the home field advantage, and yes, it's not fair, but over time it will even out. Is the home field bonus going to be an advantage? Obviously, yes. Is it going to be problematic? There is absolutely no way to tell from the first four fights.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:50
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Nudity prevails!
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Oct 23, 2015 18:53
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We've had five fights done so far. Spermy has run four, Galick has run one. And the issue is that the current setup for the home advantage provides a non-trivial advantage, and is set up in a way that would have drastically altered builds had people known how it worked, especially on my team.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:54
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Yeah I had no idea it was a thing but I don't really mind either because this is a for-fun arena thing. Goons are known for being  over things though.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:58
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Pickled Tink posted:is set up in a way that would have drastically altered builds I suspect that this is the main problem, and personally, I can't think of a better reason for not providing the details beforehand.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:59
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lmao if you planned your build instead of randomly guessing and maybe trying to stick to a theme Last tournament I got to the semifinals with a fighter wearing a full suit of silver armor, just have fun with it!
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Oct 23, 2015 19:08
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Ghostwoods posted:Yeah, but the fights aren't equal. The entire point of the Arena Challenge is that they're mostly batshit-crazy and ultra-complex. Also, the randomness I'm talking about is in the system, and nothing to do with the home field advantage, and yes, it's not fair, but over time it will even out. I'm currently complaining about something that is giving me an advantage, you know. 
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Oct 23, 2015 19:14
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Look, everyone, there is clearly a simple answer. Nuke the tournament.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:21
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jon joe posted:Look, everyone, there is clearly a simple answer. Not enough z-levels to reach orbit. Since we can't be sure, carry on. If home field advantage is that good, we'll just have to make sure everyone plays the same number of home games.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:30
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AJ_Impy posted:we'll just have to make sure everyone plays the same number of home games. Which is currently exactly what's happening.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:31
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Bad Munki posted:Which is currently exactly what's happening. You're right, that was phrased a bit too subtly.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:35
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My concern is that the home advantage is a non-trivial boost, and it means that it is looking pretty easy to guess who will win every fight. I dunno about the rest of you, but I find that a little dull. Now yes, my team is visiting this round, so we'll probably eat a loss unless Spermy's team is all dumb builds and/or we get really lucky. I'm perfectly happy to eat a loss this round and carry on through the rest of the tournament with a much weaker home team advantage change made just so that I can actually not know which team will almost certainly be the winner of each match.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:57
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I probably should have made the home field advantage clear in the first post of the thread. If the home teams have a combined 13-3 or better record after Round 2, we'll hold a vote in the thread to see how everyone wants to proceed.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:04
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Is it possible to give fighters the stat equivalent of a "morale boost"?
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Oct 23, 2015 21:06
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ChickenWing posted:Is it possible to give fighters the stat equivalent of a "morale boost"? Actually, yes, but morale is turned off by default because the fights between undisciplined combatants would basically be "1 person gets injured/killed, everyone else, including the attacker, runs into a corner and starts weeping and wailing about the horrors of war"
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Oct 23, 2015 21:09
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my dad posted:Actually, yes, but morale is turned off by default because the fights between undisciplined combatants would basically be "1 person gets injured/killed, everyone else, including the attacker, runs into a corner and starts weeping and wailing about the horrors of war" Slaves to Armok: God of Tears Chapter II: Dwarf Fortress
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Oct 23, 2015 21:11
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Instead we just fight while weeping and wailing about the horrors of war.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:12
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Krysmphoenix posted:Instead we just fight while weeping and wailing about the horrors of war. Yeah. Dwarf Fortress runs its emotions simulation event when their consequences are turned off, as can be seen from the not-very courageuos warcries of the arena fighters. Or when the character you control in the adventure mode starts crying because you made them kill a friend and they couldn't do anything about it but blindly obey.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:16
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my dad posted:"1 person gets injured/killed, everyone else, including the attacker, runs into a corner and starts weeping and wailing about the horrors of war" Can we do a special tournament with this option on please, this sounds fantastic
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Oct 23, 2015 21:49
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With snailmen
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Oct 23, 2015 21:52
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Sadly my ultimate build of 'all points in discipline' never got off the ground.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:53
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| # ? May 9, 2024 23:37 |
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Urist McGladiator cancels fight opposing team: leading dodging demonstration
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Oct 23, 2015 22:00
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