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its been a while since i read it so the fights might not be good since this is the shounen thread everyone who hasn't really ought to read zatch/gash bell because its shounen as gently caress and definitely has great fights all the way through Jose fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Oct 20, 2015 |
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Oct 20, 2015 21:12
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Jose posted:its been a while since i read it so the fights might not be good Also it's super funny because it has lots of physical humor instead of relying on Japanese wordplay that doesn't translate
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Oct 20, 2015 23:11
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Zatch Bell is probably one of the more underrated shonen. It uses all of the tropes, ALL OF THEM, but it does so well and is a fun, passionate story throughout. That it ended the way it did was kinda refreshing as well. The artwork can be pretty bad at times but when it counts, he nails it. And he's like, the master of two-page giant creature spreads.
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Oct 20, 2015 23:28
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If nothing else, I will always remember Zatch Bell on Toonami for introducing young me to the concept of cankles.
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Oct 21, 2015 00:24
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Twiddy posted:I'm kind of curious what you mean by "getting fighting right." Not trying to call you out since I generally agree, but that's a vague statement that could probably be expanded upon. Most of these speak for themselves, but the balance of power tends to be the make it or break it point for me. The flow of the fight, how who's in control shifts back and forth. Puzzle battles tend to do this very well, since it's all about out-thinking and out-maneuvering your opponent. Often the fight ends once the tables have been turned, but sometimes the bad guy finds a way to turn them back. I appreciate this approach because it elevates the fight itself to its own piece of drama, rather than merely acting in service of the preexisting drama of the narrative. For a good example, let's look at Hunter x Hunter. Our protagonist Gon wants to become a hunter, which requires him to pass the fabled Hunter Exam. Surviving the first several trials, he's eventually tasked with stealing another applicant's badge in order to proceed. Unfortunately, the badge he needs belongs to the murderous Hisoka, who by this time has already demonstrated his strength, technique, and power as far superior to Gon's. Gon needs to come up with a plan, since there's no way on Earth he could take Hisoka in a straight fight (in fact, at this point in the story, one wonders if anybody could take Hisoka in a fight). Hisoka has the advantage while Gon is at a disadvantage. Fortunately, Gon is able to think of a plan: to use his fishing pole to snatch away Hisoka's badge while Hisoka's in the middle of attacking his own prey (for he too must claim someone's badge). Gon practices his moves to make sure he can pull it off, then begins the hunt for Hisoka. Gon may be physically weaker than Hisoka, but he's fast and knows how to navigate and track things in the wild. He hasn't overturned Hisoka's advantage, but he's done away with his own disadvantage. Gon finds Hisoka and hides away in some nearby bushes. For awhile Hisoka doesn't do anything, only to finally get up and decide to go hunting himself. Everything's going according to plan. Hunter applicants can take one specific person's badge or three different people's badges in order to qualify for the next round. Hisoka doesn't care about the particulars so he decides he'll just hunt down three people to kill. Too bad for them, but it gives Gon three chances. Or two chances, rather, as by the time Hisoka decides this he's already come across one dead body and simply claimed its badge. Still. Hisoka enjoys killing, and since it's been awhile since he last did so he's feeling a bit monomaniacal about it. If Gon can just snatch his badge at the moment Hisoka goes in for the kill, his victory is assured. The advantage is now firmly Gon's. He holds all the cards and his opponent is behaving exactly as he expects. Unfortunately, the next two people to cross Hisoka's path are Gon's friends Kurapika and Leorio. Now the advantage is Hisoka's again. Gon can't call out or he'll ruin his carefully laid plan, but if he doesn't call out his friends might be killed. The advantage shifts again. Here a third element comes into play, complicating matters but ultimately resolving them. Kurapika manages to negotiate for his and Leorio's safe passage by bribing Hisoka with a spare badge he picked up. Gon's friends are safe and the advantage shifts back, but now he's only got one chance left. Finally, after what seems like forever, Hisoka finds a suitable target for his bloodlust. It's not anybody Gon knows, so he feels he confident this time his plan will work. Hisoka kills his prey, but the moment he strikes Gon steals away his badge. Gon wins! Now all he has to do is run away. He's weaker than Hisoka, but faster on foot. The advantage is his! Gon disappears into the trees, only to get sniped by a dart from a blowgun. It seems while Gon was hunting Hisoka, someone else was hunting him. They liked his idea and decided to adapt it for themselves. Gon doesn't die, but the dart leaves him paralyzed for a time. His advantage completely disappears. Another man takes his and Hisoka's badges, and if Hisoka finds him like this then he's done for. Hisoka does find him, but he brings the kid a present. It seems the man who was hunting Gon was actually Hisoka's target. Happy to kill someone else, meeting the point requirement with the one badge he needed, Hisoka lets Gon live and lets him keep his (Hisoka's) badge. He's impressed by Gon's approach, spares his life, and guarantees his entry into the next round. Gon doesn't want to accept Hisoka's charity, so Hisoka punches him and says "If you don't like it, come back to me when you're strong enough to hit me just like that." Hisoka leaves and the fight ends. Gon wins, though not in the way he expected. This sort of back-and-forth transfer of power is the kind of thing I love to see in a fight, albeit in this case stretched out over a far longer period of time than usual. If you've ever seen me talking about the "Mechanics" of a fight, it's stuff like this. I'm also fond of this particular example because rather than pretending the two combatants exist in their own universe, it throws them into a larger ecosystem of people fighting other people, where Gon's strategy to win depends on there being other elements at play than just his fight with Hisoka. Bad Seafood fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 02:18
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My Hero Academia does some good team-up fights as well.
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Oct 21, 2015 03:05
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in black clover you can understand why all the ladies love the mc because he is ripped in a world of skinny wizards
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Oct 21, 2015 03:57
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Captain Invictus posted:Zatch Bell is probably one of the more underrated shonen. It uses all of the tropes, ALL OF THEM, but it does so well and is a fun, passionate story throughout. That it ended the way it did was kinda refreshing as well. VRAAAH VRAAAAH VERY MELON
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Oct 21, 2015 04:09
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Bad Seafood posted:Half an arc of Hunter X Hunter Well said, animod! Hunter X Hunter had some of the best fights for this reason -- there's a real sense of strategy and back-and-forth to them. Even when the Nen system is introduced, it doesn't just devolve into pulling magic out of a hat, but rather outsmarting your opponent with skill and intelligence and the resources you have at hand. It enhances the tension and the fun of fight scenes by upping the ante and increasing the range of possible actions in the fight.
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Oct 21, 2015 04:42
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Bad Seafood posted:Hunter X Motherfucking Hunter HxH loving owns and has the best fights.
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Oct 21, 2015 04:47
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HxH's art can go to poo poo and it can take 10 years to release a single chapter and it honestly doesn't matter in the slightest because when it hits it kills.
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Oct 21, 2015 04:56
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DrSunshine posted:Hunter X Hunter had some of the best fights for this reason -- there's a real sense of strategy and back-and-forth to them. AnonSpore posted:HxH loving owns and has the best fights. Boogaleeboo posted:HxH's art can go to poo poo and it can take 10 years to release a single chapter and it honestly doesn't matter in the slightest because when it hits it kills. Also, since I just banged out a huge wall of text and you guys bothered to read it, here's another killer Hunter x Hunter moment that demands far less analysis while leaving its audience no less satisfied.  The third phase of the Hunter Exam has the crew trickling down Trick Tower, an infamous prison chock full of off-kilter challenges. The centerpiece, in this case, is a best outta five "Fighting" "Tournament" matching our four friends (and Tonpa) against four dangerous criminals (and one guy who's not dangerous at all). Of course, of course, we end up two-to-two, leaving our boy Killua as the necessary tie-breaker. His opponent is Johness, a depraved serial killer whose victims number in the hundreds. Togashi doesn't even try to humanize Johness. His own people are scared of him, and he does even care about reducing his sentence. If he were freed tomorrow he'd go back to kill. All he wants is to peel apart flesh. So, you know - nothing personal - Killua aces him.     The mechanics of this fight are far more simple than the previous one I described. It's barely a fight at all. I mentioned the idea of a "Quickdraw" in my previous post, so I'd say that's more what I'd consider this fight to be. It's not even a simple one-direction shift of power. There is no shift. Killua was never in danger and never at a disadvantage. We already knew from his conversation with Gon on the airship that he hails from a family of assassins. He even casually killed two other participants. Ah, but I guess they didn't expect it. They were just random schmucks after all. The reason this fight works, despite how simple it is, is because of how it plays with the other elements I mentioned. Tensions are high. Our group just lost a lot of time on the previous challenge, so they need to hustle to get out of there ASAP. Killua's victory is subconsciously assured (because he's a main character and we're still in the opening act of the story), but Johness is such a vile and disgusting creature that we feel great emotional release with his defeat. Seeing Killua crush his still-beating heart is also emotional. We knew the kid had a casual attitude towards death, but this little scene adds a new dimension of cruelty. He really is his parents' son. We're relieved Johness is dead, yet despite how utterly despicable he was we can't help but feel ill at ease with his dispatcher. Despite lasting a mere five pages, this fight plays with our expectations in a number of ways that leave us intrigued and uncomfortable with the spectacle we've witnessed. Togashi's art has never been his strong suit (though I'd say he's good at composition), but his choreography here is crisp and clear. We only question what just happened because Togashi wished us to for one fleeting moment. I wanted to bring up this fight lest someone think I think all fights should be like Gon's attempt to steal Hisoka's badge. Straightforward fights can still be satisfying. One-sided beatdowns can still be compelling. After writing all that stuff up top about the balance of power, I wanted to showcase another fight where it didn't matter at all. It's all in how you mix the elements. Bad Seafood fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 06:00
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Serious Frolicking posted:in black clover you can understand why all the ladies love the mc because he is ripped in a world of skinny wizards hes also nice in a world full of smug jerks obsessed with themselves
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Oct 21, 2015 06:03
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The deadly combination of being a nice person and absolutely ripped.
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Oct 21, 2015 06:03
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Bad Seafood posted:So, you know - nothing personal - Killua aces him. Another excellent post! One thing in particular, speaking about the art, that I'd like to point out is -- note the details expressed on Killua's cruel grin in the closeup. The emphasis on his lips and the shadows under his eyes. Even though it's black and white, it gives a mental image of his face as extremely pale, but flushed red with color around the lips, which makes him look eerie and sensual. This definitely plays into the point you made about Togashi's art not being spectacular, but making strong points where it matters. It helps enhance that feeling of discomfort and sickness that we get, and expresses a huge, and totally different side of the character.
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Oct 21, 2015 06:11
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I like Togashi's art, but his writing is so much better. No matter what his deal is (and no, no one knows for certain what that is despite confident proclamations to the contrary), it would be great if hxh started up again even with a different artist. poo poo, we are never gonna see that crazy outer world arc in any form.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:08
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Same. I don't think Togashi's art is "Bad." It's functional. It's clear. It's better than my own best efforts by far. But when I compare him against his contemporaries and other artists on the scene, he comes up short. Hunter x Hunter is many things, but a visual tour de force it ain't. But that's fine! His art is sparse and simple, but it affords him great clarity and focus. And, as Frolick says, his writing is where he really shines. Hunter x Hunter is more interesting and engaging than a lot of "Better" drawn comics I've read - many of which contain confusing, muddled, and poorly-planned fights.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:31
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Erg posted:I want to know if those translation notes for the spell names mean that the author wrote out the names in actual Spanish, or if this is just a translation of the Spanish scan Weak spell naming game compared to Negima.
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Oct 21, 2015 08:23
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Togashi's art is loving amazing I dunno what you guys are on about
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Oct 21, 2015 08:36
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There's definitely been a change since the start of the series and I think as he's drawn more and his style has changed he's lost something. Earlier on it felt like each character got their own distinct style when they were in focus that helped really characterise them. Look at Killua there, from the way he's drawn he almost looks like Hisoka; the same kind of expression, more shading (especially around the eyes) and thinner, more complex lineart that makes him look more like a villain. That totally sells Killuas character from what we knew of him at that point. When he got mad he got vicious. His dad was drawn the same in his first appearance. Gon is much more 'protagonist-y'. big eyes, much stronger lines and simpler shapes (that huge block of hair) and a big goofy smile. When he's mad instead of being thinner and more drawn-out he becomes even simpler and blockier (his eyes just become huge dark holes), nuance and complexity vanishing even further from his character because that is who he is: A really simple person who gets SUPER-MAD sometimes. Kurapika is drawn more similar to Killua but where Killua's hair is the more traditional 'coolguy spiky' Kurapika's overall haircut is more rounded, which is a much more aesthetically-friendly shape. Like Gon he has big 'good guy'-eyes and that makes perfect sense because his eyes are a huge part of his character and his primary motivation. The baggy cothes - almost robes - imply a more mystical and therefore calmer character than the regular clothes of the other main characters and from day one that's exactly what he is. Leorio is the adult member of the troupe and the voice of realism/reason. He's in a black suit and carries around a briefcase. In conclusion even if I preferred his older art style, Togashi is great and HxH remains a god-tier comic because of everything Bad Seafood talked about.
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Oct 21, 2015 09:07
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So viz is selling all 32 volumes of Hunter x Hunter for $96. This is a super duper ultra mega steal if even half of the praise I've heard for HxH is legit. Is the series as good as some say? Interesting story and characters and the like? Would you recommend me scooping up this deal?
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Oct 21, 2015 09:37
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Where is this being offered? EDIT: Oh, it's a digital download. Was gonna be cross if it was physical volumes considering I just started collecting the series in paperback. Bad Seafood fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 09:42
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Yeah I only read manga online because of visual problems. It's easier this way.
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Oct 21, 2015 09:44
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What really got me into the series was the 2011 anime adaptation, after which I checked out the manga. The anime is currently streaming legally in a number of places free of charge, so I'd check that out first to ensure it's your bag.
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Oct 21, 2015 09:52
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Now if only they'd offer something like that for One Piece Especially if it was the color edition of One Piece
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Oct 21, 2015 10:21
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I read teh h x h manga several times and I have incredibly good taste.
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Oct 21, 2015 10:57
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I was never that enamored with HxH but I kinda feel bad for the people that like it since it'll never ever be finished in the same way Berserk won't.
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Oct 21, 2015 11:35
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Nthing all this love for HxH; I first discovered the anime before the manga, and while the art style does put me off a little, the best parts are like the perfect storm of great shounen elements: engrossing fight scenes, nuanced characters on both the pro- and antagonist sides, strong plot arcs, well explained powers, and setting that starts off like a standard shounen universe with monsters and tournaments and dungeons and the like and then gets progressively darker (Togashi does what a lot of folks don't and takes the concept of a world with superpowers to its logical conclusion, and it really, really isn't a nice place to live at all...) So good.
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Oct 21, 2015 14:27
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I've heard people praise the fight scenes in World Trigger for the teamwork between the characters, especially during the Invasion arc.
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Oct 21, 2015 15:30
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Mraagvpeine posted:I've heard people praise the fight scenes in World Trigger for the teamwork between the characters, especially during the Invasion arc. Yeah, World Trigger has great fight scenes that tend to involve a lot of strategy/tactics/teamwork. Very few characters get by on "power levels" alone, even the enemies. I've been rereading Psyren since I forgot most of it. It was really good. I really like how the comic is completely centered around one plotline/set of enemies. Amamiya is also a very good female co-lead/love interest.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:00
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Fabricated posted:I was never that enamored with HxH but I kinda feel bad for the people that like it since it'll never ever be finished in the same way Berserk won't. Even if it hasnt ended it had a pretty good "ending" with where the anime leaves off.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:01
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All this talk of HxH wants me to get on the bandwagon, should I dive into the anime or manga?
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Oct 24, 2015 00:10
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I dunno if the volume version of the manga is available in English, whether you're buying it or just trying to find it online. If not, then I definiltely say anime--Togashi did some really bad work in some of the arcs (notably the chimera ant arc) where he basically submitted napkin sketches and they put those in the magazines. He fixed them up for the published volumes, but without access to those, well, the anime is still really good.
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Oct 24, 2015 02:54
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Bad Seafood posted:I don't think Togashi's art is "Bad." Togashi's composition is still super tight though.
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Oct 24, 2015 04:14
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Drop whatever you're doing, there's a new chapter of Kyokou Suiri ~ Invented Inference out.
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Oct 25, 2015 00:12
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Medaka Box is bad, right? I'm looking for some fun shounen battle comic to read.
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Oct 25, 2015 01:19
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Ytlaya posted:Medaka Box is bad, right? I'm looking for some fun shounen battle comic to read.
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Oct 25, 2015 01:23
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I wouldn't really call Medaka Box good, but it is an experience and fun. I kinda miss it, really.
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Oct 25, 2015 01:26
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Ytlaya posted:Medaka Box is bad, right? I'm looking for some fun shounen battle comic to read. It's not bad a personal favorite of mine really. But you have to be able to appreciate the fact that they made an unabashed mary sue the main character and made it work spectacularly. Dexo fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Oct 25, 2015 |
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Oct 25, 2015 01:43
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At some point, without spoiling too much, they fight someone who fights using alternate Kanji readings as her weapon.
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Oct 25, 2015 02:21
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