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Yeah it's pretty hard to create custom classes for 4E. People go "oh well mix two classes' powers!" as if that's fun or not largely a waste of time. The game's model makes it difficult to make new things and it's cool that we got as many classes as we did, because each class can be pretty complicated in terms of the options available. Then it becomes an obstacle to ease of play, since you can't exactly program new things into the character builder. The game already has roughly three times as many feats as it should.
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Oct 19, 2015 23:35
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I seem to recall aaaages ago a goon was working on a supplement for a Martial Controller class that actually seemed pretty cool. Using heavy thrown weapons, each power forced the DM into a Dilemma; choose one of two equally bad options. Anyone else remember that? He commissioned a sweet piece of art of a dragonborn chucking a hand axe
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Oct 20, 2015 00:16
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"More feats!" shouted Giles Corey, 8th level Witch.
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Oct 20, 2015 05:10
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Super Waffle posted:I seem to recall aaaages ago a goon was working on a supplement for a Martial Controller class that actually seemed pretty cool. Using heavy thrown weapons, each power forced the DM into a Dilemma; choose one of two equally bad options. Anyone else remember that? He commissioned a sweet piece of art of a dragonborn chucking a hand axe The martial controller is the polearm fighter.
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Oct 20, 2015 05:28
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Has anyone here used the Level 0 rules they posted in Dragon magazine? Instead of choosing a class, you choose a power source which gives you a single At-Will, and during battles you can spend tokens to make the At-Will have shades of one of the four roles; for example, the Divine at-will just whacks an enemy, but the Leader version whacks them and heals someone, and the Defender version whacks them and threatens them with more damage if they move on their turn. I have a group of friends that want to try tabletop games, and I think that choosing a power source might be more appealing than choosing a class and trying to slot into a role, at least initially. It certainly all sounds good on paper, but I have no idea how it actually plays.
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Oct 20, 2015 05:40
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I played a level 0 one-shot once and I really wasn't all that impressed. Your choices are too limited, the enemies are extremely deadly, and depending on what races your characters choose, some are going to have a better time than others. For example, I had a Thri-Kreen whose Flailing Claws racial power annihilated enemies while others were constantly missing and getting their poo poo kicked in. Plus, if you want to actually play 4e, it doesn't really let you play with any of the 4e mechanics or resources, like At-Will/Encounter/Daily powers or marking abilities for defenders. You're better off just making them some pre-made level 1 characters, and if they like it, let them either make their own characters or customize the ones they have if you keep going.
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Oct 20, 2015 05:56
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Khizan posted:The martial controller is the polearm fighter. Do not pursue Lu Bu. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKDIQaq36tw
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Oct 20, 2015 06:33
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Mecha Gojira posted:You're better off just making them some pre-made level 1 characters, and if they like it, let them either make their own characters or customize the ones they have if you keep going. Ask them what they want to play and then just generate L1 characters to fill those concepts. The classes fluff sufficiently well so that you can pretty much fill a striker/defender/leader group out of basically any 3 concepts.
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Oct 20, 2015 08:52
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The 4th Edition Player's Handbook 1 is now available in PDF form from DTRPG The DMG 1 is yet to be released, but if you use the Essentials Dungeon Master's Kit as a stand-in (plus Rules Compendium), it's now possible to run entire games of D&D 4e just by using official material that's available forever. The product history is an interesting read if nothing else, and given the pattern of previous DTRPG releases, we'll probably see MM1 or DMG1 this time next week, then the other book the week after that. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Oct 20, 2015 |
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Oct 20, 2015 16:11
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Mecha Gojira posted:I played a level 0 one-shot once and I really wasn't all that impressed. Your choices are too limited, the enemies are extremely deadly, and depending on what races your characters choose, some are going to have a better time than others. For example, I had a Thri-Kreen whose Flailing Claws racial power annihilated enemies while others were constantly missing and getting their poo poo kicked in. That's a shame, it seemed like a neat way to break people in. Then again, without a lot of tweaking it would have probably been a bit too lethal for new players (or a new DM).
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Oct 20, 2015 18:08
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Echophonic posted:"More feats!" shouted Giles Corey, 8th level Witch. I think he was at best multiclassed into Witch, or not a Witch at all.
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Oct 20, 2015 19:50
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gradenko_2000 posted:The 4th Edition Player's Handbook 1 is now available in PDF form from DTRPG Have they updated the PDF with errata?
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Oct 20, 2015 19:55
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Gort posted:Have they updated the PDF with errata? I don't even need to look at it to say gently caress NO of course they haven't. (if someone cares to prove me wrong I'd be pleased to retract that)
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Oct 21, 2015 18:33
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thespaceinvader posted:I don't even need to look at it to say gently caress NO of course they haven't. Why the gently caress not
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Oct 21, 2015 18:38
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Gort posted:Why the gently caress not 
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Oct 21, 2015 18:39
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Unless there was ever a printing of the PHB that had all the errata incorporated, it's very unlikely that this is errata'd, since I don't think WOTC really has any sort of bandwidth allocated towards 5th Edition, much less a previous one. Unrelated question: what was the first issue of Dragon Magazine that was 4e-related?
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Oct 21, 2015 18:46
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Gort posted:Why the gently caress not WOTC's overall treatment of 4e has been a lack of effort and care. Updating the books would require effort, therefore, WOTC did not update them.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:49
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gradenko_2000 posted:Unrelated question: what was the first issue of Dragon Magazine that was 4e-related? 363 was the last one Paizo made, 364 was when it switched over to WotC and 4e.
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Oct 21, 2015 19:07
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LightWarden posted:363 was the last one Paizo made, 364 was when it switched over to WotC and 4e. 359 was the last Paizo issue, 360-363 had transitional 3e content and 4e previews, and 364 was the first 4e issue. A chunk of the 3e content in 360-363 was original 4e content that was backported prior to 4e's release, like the Ecology of the Fire Archon article in #361.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:45
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One of my Wizards wants to use a sword, so they pick up the martial weapon feat. Is there any special rules I should be aware of?
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Oct 25, 2015 07:37
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Turtlicious posted:One of my Wizards wants to use a sword, so they pick up the martial weapon feat. Is there any special rules I should be aware of? You can't use a weapon as an implement unless you have the appropriate implement proficiency, so taking the weapon proficiency feat won't do any good. Your player needs Arcane Implement Proficiency, or IIRC a Swordmage MC feat unless he actually wants to hit people with the sword (which would be blatantly dumb for a Wizard). Other than that, weapons and implements work identically.
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Oct 25, 2015 07:57
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Also instead of burning a feat on using swords for weapon attacks, the Mage's Weapon enchantment is a heavy or light blade that can be used by anyone proficient with daggers. If he wants to be a melee fight-wizard, swordmage or swordmage|wizard hybrid would be something to look at. Otherwise, wizards don't have a lot of cause to hit things with their weapons.
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Oct 25, 2015 08:02
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Turtlicious posted:One of my Wizards wants to use a sword, so they pick up the martial weapon feat. Is there any special rules I should be aware of?  holy gently caress don't play this edition hth
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Oct 25, 2015 08:25
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Turtlicious posted:One of my Wizards wants to use a sword, so they pick up the martial weapon feat. Is there any special rules I should be aware of? Play a Swordmage. Or a Warlock. Or a Sorcerer. Or basically any other arcane class than a Wizard, virtually all of which can make better use of weapons. If Wizard is an absolute must, see above, or take the War Wizard of Cormyr (?) PP. But yeah, Wizard + Sword is basically making a Wizard worse for no reason.
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Oct 25, 2015 08:35
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To approach this from another angle: you can call yourself a Wizard, with Wizard named abilities, but you should probably be a different class mechanically.
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Oct 25, 2015 08:47
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P.d0t posted:
What edition would you suggest? I mean, this isn't "gently caress YOU 4TH IS THE BEST EDITOIN" but being a wizard with a sword has never really been a particularly good or useful idea in any edition of D&D (somewhat ironically given the existence of Glamdring)
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Oct 25, 2015 10:07
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You can use a sword implement to get magic item properties only available on sword. That is about the only reason you should do it and even then it's not wise.
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Oct 25, 2015 10:14
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What does he want to do with the sword? If he wants to combine magic and sword fightan into one style, maybe slowly transit him over to swordmage. Start with a multiclass feat (probably replace the martial weapon feat), then maybe let him begin swapping out powers until he is Full Swordmage (or hybrid wizard | swordmage ). If he wants to throw fireballs from out of his sword, just give him staves but rename them swords, and tell him they're totally swords. Like, never tell him "ok this staff-" Just change it all to sword. If he wants to be a wizard (who also sometimes slashes a dude with a sword), then go "gently caress dude" and just give him martial weapon training for free because it literally doesn't matter at all and maybe point him instead towards melee training or whatever it's called that changes your basic attack. Alternately, see above with the staff thing. If he wants to just have one because it's rad, cool, go for it. You probably don't need to actually change anything. Swords are cool. Dunno why this thread is freaking the gently caress out over this. Doing any of these are pretty easy fixes
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Oct 25, 2015 10:40
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ProfessorCirno posted:What does he want to do with the sword? We see lots of stories of players trying to square peg/round hole stuff with 4th Edition. "I'll make my paladin's main stat Constitution!" has come up more than once.
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Oct 25, 2015 10:56
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That's true. For me the primary 4e question first and foremost is "what is the player trying to do?" and building around that. The problem is when the answer is "be meta but they're real poo poo at it."
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Oct 25, 2015 11:18
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:"I'll make my paladin's main stat Constitution!" has come up more than once. 
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Oct 25, 2015 14:58
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"Swords are cool and my character wants simething in case her magic runs out." I just gave her a sword with that implement enchantment on it.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:19
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Turtlicious posted:in case her magic runs out
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Oct 25, 2015 16:21
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Turtlicious posted:"Swords are cool and my character wants simething in case her magic runs out." I just gave her a sword with that implement enchantment on it. That's a perfectly good way to handle it. 
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Oct 25, 2015 16:27
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Dire Wombat posted:You can't use a weapon as an implement unless you have the appropriate implement proficiency, so taking the weapon proficiency feat won't do any good. Your player needs Arcane Implement Proficiency, or IIRC a Swordmage MC feat unless he actually wants to hit people with the sword (which would be blatantly dumb for a Wizard). Other than that, weapons and implements work identically. There is no Arcane Implement Proficiency for Heavy/Light Blades, iirc. Just Dagger specifically. The only way to get heavy blades as an implement are a swordmage MC or a Monk MC with a corresponding heavy/light blade proficiency(Monk MC grants 'monk implements' and their implement list includes "any weapon you are proficient in"). I can't think of a reason why you'd want to go the monk MC route, mind you; I am just listing it for the sake of completeness.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:38
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Khizan posted:There is no Arcane Implement Proficiency for Heavy/Light Blades, iirc. Just Dagger specifically. The only way to get heavy blades as an implement are a swordmage MC or a Monk MC with a corresponding heavy/light blade proficiency(Monk MC grants 'monk implements' and their implement list includes "any weapon you are proficient in"). "Choose a kind of implement associated with any arcane class. You can now use that kind of implement." The swordmage gets blades as an implement. Edit: Fun fact, there's also one for bows if you worship Sehanine.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:41
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Turtlicious posted:"Swords are cool and my character wants simething in case her magic runs out." I just gave her a sword with that implement enchantment on it. Maybe make sure he understands that wizards never run out of at-will powers, just in case there is some confusion.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:55
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It's a fluff thing. RP you know? She just wants to know how to use a sword.
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Oct 25, 2015 18:45
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Turtlicious posted:It's a fluff thing. RP you know? She just wants to know how to use a sword. Well then congrats, she knows how to use a sword. It's not like it'll break much of anything for a wizard to have a sword. No use spending a feat on something that's just fluff that won't really come into play.
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Oct 25, 2015 18:47
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Yeah, just... give the player Longsword proficiency. Or hell, suggest they play an Eladrin. Eladrin are beasty Wizards.
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Oct 25, 2015 19:12
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