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TheMopeSquad posted:I see, though that never happened in my game. Jefferson actually remarks about how sad he was he never got a shot at Victoria. I would still argue that in that outcome he only kills her to further implicate Nathan as a scapegoat all in response to Max and Chloe backing him into a corner. I'm not trying to say he is not a killer because obviously he is capable of it but his interest in stealing girls is just to take pictures of them not to kill them. His character seems to shift at the last episode. And I don't just mean because we found out he's the creepy psycho. Previously it was just 'oops Rachel died' but mostly he left his victims alive. Over the course of the last day he kills Nathan, Chloe, Victoria, and intends to off Max. It could be from being backed into a corner. Although because I'm still kind of pissed at the game for quality whiplash with the last episode, I'm more inclined to believe that it's bad writing combined with the fact that they just wanted to tie off character arcs as quickly as possible. Nathan and the whole vaguely hinted Prescott involvement in the plot? Nope, shot him off camera. Victoria? There she is in the dark room, on you blinked now she's dead off camera too. At least Nathan got one last tearful voice mail, so that's something.
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Oct 25, 2015 05:38
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BobTheJanitor posted:His character seems to shift at the last episode. And I don't just mean because we found out he's the creepy psycho. Previously it was just 'oops Rachel died' but mostly he left his victims alive. Over the course of the last day he kills Nathan, Chloe, Victoria, and intends to off Max. It could be from being backed into a corner. Although because I'm still kind of pissed at the game for quality whiplash with the last episode, I'm more inclined to believe that it's bad writing combined with the fact that they just wanted to tie off character arcs as quickly as possible. Nathan and the whole vaguely hinted Prescott involvement in the plot? Nope, shot him off camera. Victoria? There she is in the dark room, on you blinked now she's dead off camera too. At least Nathan got one last tearful voice mail, so that's something.
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Oct 25, 2015 05:41
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I'm wondering if maybe the lesson actually IS an intentional "if you try to change fate you just make things worse", simply because of what does happen if you get Victoria to listen to you. If you are nice to her along the way and do everything right to make her believe you that Nathan is a bad guy, she goes running to Jefferson about it and gets caught and taken to the dark room to be killed. Where if you just leave her alone and don't do anything, that never happens. So you actively trying to protect her is what causes her to be put in danger. Man, gently caress these writers. 
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Oct 25, 2015 06:18
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GOONS ARE MEAN
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The game is just explaining to us that Hipsters kill everything they love. I feel that is a valid message.
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Oct 25, 2015 06:42
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BobTheJanitor posted:His character seems to shift at the last episode. And I don't just mean because we found out he's the creepy psycho. Previously it was just 'oops Rachel died' but mostly he left his victims alive. Over the course of the last day he kills Nathan, Chloe, Victoria, and intends to off Max. It could be from being backed into a corner. Although because I'm still kind of pissed at the game for quality whiplash with the last episode, I'm more inclined to believe that it's bad writing combined with the fact that they just wanted to tie off character arcs as quickly as possible. Nathan and the whole vaguely hinted Prescott involvement in the plot? Nope, shot him off camera. Victoria? There she is in the dark room, on you blinked now she's dead off camera too. At least Nathan got one last tearful voice mail, so that's something. I mean, if you want to get into the psychology of people like that, once they make their first kill, there's no going back.
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Oct 25, 2015 07:10
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sighnoceros posted:I'm wondering if maybe the lesson actually IS an intentional "if you try to change fate you just make things worse", simply because of what does happen if you get Victoria to listen to you. If you are nice to her along the way and do everything right to make her believe you that Nathan is a bad guy, she goes running to Jefferson about it and gets caught and taken to the dark room to be killed. Where if you just leave her alone and don't do anything, that never happens. So you actively trying to protect her is what causes her to be put in danger. Man, gently caress these writers. As I posted earlier, one of the things this game does is continually push a message of "there is no right answer". This one, I feel, is particularly designed to snare the "be nice to everybody" crowd, of which I am definitely a member. I remember seeing this sequence of events playing out in Episode 4, and feeling relieved that my efforts had paid off and that I had done a Definitively Good Thing by being nice. Seeing how that plays out in Episode 5 was a punch right to the gut, and I would definitely say that from the writers' point of view, that this sequence was Working As Intended. So, question for you folks who've played with more options than I have: How do you get David to cover for Chloe breaking into Blackwell? I've heard that it's possible, but I don't remember what decisions need to be made for that to happen.
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Oct 25, 2015 07:49
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so this game turned out to be bad, correct?
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Oct 25, 2015 08:01
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Yes don't play it
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Oct 25, 2015 08:05
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icantfindaname posted:so this game turned out to be bad, correct? It looks like you decided you didn't like it months ago, so yeah, probably still not your cup of tea
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Oct 25, 2015 08:05
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I just finished the entire last episode in one sitting last night. My thoughts on the ending where I picked to save Chloe: I saved Chloe because I just don't buy into the idea that Max had enough information to really believe that her first choosing to save Chloe was what caused the storm. There's no guarantee that going back to the first photo and having Nathan shoot Chloe would've prevented the storm. Plus, Max saved Chloe the first time even without knowing who she was and it was a selfless act that she shouldn't have to regret.  I know a lot of people are pissed about how the ending just ended up being a binary choice, but to me it seems like the reward for being nice/mean to people is supposed to be their immediate reaction and expecting some sort of payoff in terms of game mechanics is kind of unreasonable. Some people like to see the binary decision at the end to mean that none of your choices mattered, but that's not true at all, most, if not all, of your choices had either a tangible effect immediately or in a later episode. Choosing to save Chloe or Arcadia Bay is in the same vein, an immediate effect and consequences you suffer down the line. Expecting every character/plant/bunny you interacted with to pop out for their 2 seconds in an ending montage is just silly and a tired trope that can and should be subverted. If I suddenly died of a tornado in my face tomorrow it doesn't mean that every nice thing other people decided to do for me was all for naught. The writing in the game is by no means perfect and I do wish they could've expanded on the save Chloe ending a little more but I am satisfied with my choices. I do feel like my choices mattered because I saw Kate at the hospital being not dead, I saw Victoria in the dark room when she regretted her being a dick, I saw how relieved David was because Chloe "was a stoner" One of the games of the year for me for sure. Also reading this thread made me realize apparently I'm the only person who still says "hella" sighnoceros posted:I'm wondering if maybe the lesson actually IS an intentional "if you try to change fate you just make things worse", simply because of what does happen if you get Victoria to listen to you. If you are nice to her along the way and do everything right to make her believe you that Nathan is a bad guy, she goes running to Jefferson about it and gets caught and taken to the dark room to be killed. Where if you just leave her alone and don't do anything, that never happens. So you actively trying to protect her is what causes her to be put in danger. Man, gently caress these writers. But you don't know that Victoria wouldn't have been killed after that anyway. She won the contest so Jefferson would've had plenty of chances to kill her and pin it on a missing Nathan. Personally I feel better having known Victoria was a better person for Max being there regardless of whether she was murdered afterwards Plom Bar posted:So, question for you folks who've played with more options than I have: How do you get David to cover for Chloe breaking into Blackwell? I've heard that it's possible, but I don't remember what decisions need to be made for that to happen. Doesn't he do this if you don't delete the message not for altruistic reasons but because he wants to save face? Geektox fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Oct 25, 2015 |
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Oct 25, 2015 08:47
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Nightmare Max thanking Nightmare Jefferson for killing Chloe was the best choice/scene. Max looked so happy.
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Oct 25, 2015 08:58
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Macaluso posted:Max ending up with Mr Jefferson would be better than that I love you mr Jefferson  Actually an branch (from choices in ep 4/5, maybe with a "secret" trigger dialogue in one of the earliest eps with Jeffy) where you just end up joining the whole Dark Room project would have been awesome and perfectly CYOA.
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Oct 25, 2015 09:05
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This was the best "choose your own story" games I've played in my life, and an incredibly touching narrative on top of it all that made me seriously consider nagging all my non-gamer friends and family to give a chance. I may still do it under the "games as art" argument. I can't praise it enough. With these types of games, I often will either go for the most optimized and efficient route to "victory" (or 100% achievement completion). This didn't happen here. I needed to play as if I really was Max, and I felt the full weight of each decision, as I should. Also, more cool games set in my lovely state of Oregon, please. Counting "Gone Home", this is the second story-heavy game set in Oregon and I absolutely want this to become a thing.
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Oct 25, 2015 09:26
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Why commit genocide just to scissor an emotionally retarded blue hair with daddy issues? You haven't even been to college yet Max there's like hundreds of them.
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Oct 25, 2015 10:44
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Because it's their best friend who they care deeply about? Tell me, poppets, if placed in such a terrible situation yourself, would you instantly sacrifice your oldest friend/lover/child/whoever it is you genuinely care about above all else in an instant while quoting ruthless calculus, citing the numbers involved and so on? Are you all such wonderfully perfect selfless paragons of decency that you would kill the most important person in your life to save the inhabitants of a corrupt and dying town you don't really give two tugs on a dead dog's cock about, and on a vague hunch with no guarantees to boot? I suspect if really placed in such a situation, a fair number would find they're a lot more selfish than they'd like everyone to believe. It's easy to sacrifice yourself for the common good but someone else?
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Oct 25, 2015 12:46
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The ending was silly not necessarily because of the message in itself, but in that any number of other messages you might read into it that have unfortunate implications, especially given past media. Sacrificing a queer/lesbian relationship for the good of everyone else, for one thing. The right option for a woman in danger is to do nothing, as another. Obviously the game developers don't want to promote that as the message but it's still there.
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Oct 25, 2015 12:53
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Sentinel Red posted:Because it's their best friend who they care deeply about? I think it's weird that choosing Arcadia Bay over Chloe is repeatedly referred to in this thread as 'cold hearted math'. You know Chloe better than any of them but it's not like all these other people are strangers to you. It's implied that Max has been hanging out with Kate since before the game started, and you spend a lot of time consoling and helping her and eventually saving her life. You're good friends with Warren, you've known Chloe's mom for as long as you've known Chloe, and you become friends with most everyone else. Having empathy for a large number of people is no less valid than having empathy for one person, especially when that person explicitly asks you to choose the other people over her. Yes I suppose if I didn't give a poo poo about anyone else in the town I might choose Chloe over them but that's a false scenario. That's not what happened in the game. You knew these people, they weren't just numbers on a board. I mean, unless you chose to ignore them as much as possible the entire playthrough. That said I totally chose to save Chloe because the ending was a load of bullshit and shouldn't have happened that way. People who make choice games seem to hate making choice games because your choices rarely end up mattering at the end of them. I don't think I like choice games anymore.
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Oct 25, 2015 13:03
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I dunno she just seemed like some sort crazy lady you haven't bothered to talk to in 5 years but like I said I only felt connected to the story during the nightmare dialogue wheel.
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Oct 25, 2015 13:04
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Chloe spent the entire game blaming me (amongst a cadre of others) for her life being lovely or passive aggressively putting me down for either doing what she said or taking twenty seconds to answer a call from my clearly suicidal friend. I'm not sure why I want to save THAT specific friend by killing a lot of my other personal friends. I'm being flippant since she grew on me towards the end but a lot of the other characters did too. The ending choice was total bull the more I think about it. I really, really liked the game up until that point so it's a big bummer for me they just ended it with bullshit "choose between these two ending". Sticking Chloe against an entire town is a ridiculous and mean choice and you have no agency in affecting it. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Oct 25, 2015 |
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Oct 25, 2015 13:17
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Geektox posted:I know a lot of people are pissed about how the ending just ended up being a binary choice, but to me it seems like the reward for being nice/mean to people is supposed to be their immediate reaction and expecting some sort of payoff in terms of game mechanics is kind of unreasonable. Some people like to see the binary decision at the end to mean that none of your choices mattered, but that's not true at all, most, if not all, of your choices had either a tangible effect immediately or in a later episode. Choosing to save Chloe or Arcadia Bay is in the same vein, an immediate effect and consequences you suffer down the line. Expecting every character/plant/bunny you interacted with to pop out for their 2 seconds in an ending montage is just silly and a tired trope that can and should be subverted. If I suddenly died of a tornado in my face tomorrow it doesn't mean that every nice thing other people decided to do for me was all for naught. (re: ending and choices) It's a valid point that most of the payoff came earlier in the episodes, and I think just about any time the game popped up with 'this action will have consequences' it did, even though some of those consequences were extremely minor. The game admittedly never said 'this action will have huge consequences!' but I think everyone kind of got the feeling that if the game was stopping to point it out that a given thing might be more consequential than a lot of them ended up being. Like, drinking a glass of water will have consequences, namely a trip to the toilet later, but that's not exactly worth alerting the player about. That aside, I think when people are talking about the ending and its relation to prior choices, it's not so much that they want to see a conga line of characters running past saying 'hey Max thanks for warning me about the football' 'thanks for talking to me about my family' 'thanks for taking care of my bunny' 'I AM
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Oct 25, 2015 16:26
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BobTheJanitor posted:(re: ending and choices) Nightmare Max was also just a piss poor knockoff of The Stranger in TWD too. The Stranger was really well done, because how you interpret him differs greatly by how you played Lee. If you played a Lee that did some bad or questionable things, the Stranger makes you look back at what you did and question yourself. If you played a good Lee than it makes the Stranger start pulling at straws blaming Lee for things he couldn't control, because its clear then that the Stranger is insane and desperately trying to use Lee as a scapegoat to put all of his own self-hatred on because it was The Stranger's fault that his family was killed and he couldn't accept it. Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Oct 25, 2015 |
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Oct 25, 2015 16:32
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can someone explain to me about Kate: so Jefferson kidnapped her, took photos of her in the dark room, then let her go? So he wasn't actually killing girls? Then Kate (not remembering?) was talking to him and he was being douchey, then she killed herself because of Nathan's video? Or was Nathan the one who took photos of Kate? or... ? edit: but then I just remembered Jefferson saying that he liked taking photos of the moment a girl's innocence is shattered. So he has to tell them he'll kill them or something. IDGI.
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Oct 25, 2015 20:39
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There wasn't actually a serial killer thing going on until Nathan hosed up with Rachel, no. But once revealed (instead of depending on the hazy drug-memories and peer-pressure) any witnesses had to be eliminated. Jeff only hosed up in not keeping a tighter leash on Nathan. Worlds weirdest "drugs-and-kidnapping-photo-session" spree. Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Oct 25, 2015 |
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Oct 25, 2015 21:21
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I don't know about the specific process behind capturing someone in the moment innocence shatters or whatever, but I'm pretty sure Rachel's death was an anomaly caused by Nathan trying to perform an abduction on his own and accidentally overdosing her. If I understood it correctly, no one was supposed to die since that drug they use seem to make it so their victims can't remember what happened. E: The only reason Max has to die is that she actually knows Jefferson is behind it all Joda fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Oct 25, 2015 |
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Oct 25, 2015 21:22
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Joda posted:I don't know about the specific process behind capturing someone in the moment innocence shatters or whatever, but I'm pretty sure Rachel's death was an anomaly caused by Nathan trying to perform an abduction on his own and accidentally overdosing her. If I understood it correctly, no one was supposed to die since that drug they use seem to make it so their victims can't remember what happened. And Chloe, but why Victoria? Think he just developed a taste for it finally.
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Oct 25, 2015 22:04
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Reclaimer posted:And Chloe, but why Victoria? Think he just developed a taste for it finally. He's doing it to frame Nathan for her disappearance. If you search the dark room, you find a train ticket purchased by 'Nathan'. Since he's dead, authorities will assume the two ran away to LA.
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Oct 25, 2015 22:06
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Geektox posted:I saved Chloe because I just don't buy into the idea that Max had enough information to really believe that her first choosing to save Chloe was what caused the storm. There's no guarantee that going back to the first photo and having Nathan shoot Chloe would've prevented the storm. Plus, Max saved Chloe the first time even without knowing who she was and it was a selfless act that she shouldn't have to regret.
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Oct 25, 2015 22:30
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redreader posted:can someone explain to me about Kate: so Jefferson kidnapped her, took photos of her in the dark room, then let her go? So he wasn't actually killing girls? Then Kate (not remembering?) was talking to him and he was being douchey, then she killed herself because of Nathan's video? Or was Nathan the one who took photos of Kate? or... ? Jefferson had been drugging girls for awhile, and yeah, not killing them, Kate was his most recent. The video that depressed and humiliated Kate was recorded by Victoria, after she was drugged by Nathan. He then said he was taking her to the doctor or hospital or something, and took her to Jefferson in the Dark Room. And yeah, who knows what douchey poo poo Jefferson said to Kate, but it obviously really upset her. They might wake up and be afraid, but the drugs likely keep them from fully remembering.
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Oct 25, 2015 23:04
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TastyLemonDrops posted:He's doing it to frame Nathan for her disappearance. If you search the dark room, you find a train ticket purchased by 'Nathan'. Since he's dead, authorities will assume the two ran away to LA. He could've just pinned Max and Chloe on him instead, since he was very outspoken about his hatred of them. Like just would not shut up about it.
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Oct 25, 2015 23:16
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So I finished my playthrough of this last night, and after talking to my friend a bit, I more or less came to the following conclusion: The ending is bad for a number of reasons, most notably that it makes your choices meaningless. Even if it didn't make your choices meaningless, though, it's such an extreme choice that I could only select Sacrifice Arcadia Bay and laugh when it came up. I mostly think that the ending would be more appropriate if there was some way to prevent the storm without killing Chloe; in fact, during the entire buildup to the end, it felt like that's where it was going to go. The fact that it didn't was really surprising, and probably not in the way they intended. I get that a lot of the game was about how there are no good choices, but it just felt wrong to have it come to that. Honestly, while I generally liked the party scene a lot, I feel like the game started to go off the rails the second you open the door to the Dark Room. I don't know. I liked the game a lot, and the ending was just really disappointing considering how strong most of the content was.
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Oct 25, 2015 23:28
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I am probably going to write too many words about why I don't like the ending, but here I go anyway: Saying "accept it and move on" about a car crash is one thing. Saying "accept it and move on" about the mentally ill kid bringing his gun to school and accidentally blasting Miss Teen-In-Crisis 2013 in the gut just feels hosed up. Chloe and Nathan are both in that bathroom because of their Daddy Issues, because not enough people gave a poo poo about them. Max's powers are activated by reaching out to Chloe, a powerful rejection of her previous role of passive observer and the beginning of her new role as active protector. It's the potential wasted by a fear of failure made manifest. Chloe's deaths aren't pure unlucky coincidences, but the results of actions she takes. She extorts Nathan. She sticks her boot in the train tracks. She shoots the bumper. Max is there to save her from herself by pulling her rear end out of the fire and showing her that someone does give a poo poo. It's easy to throw up our hands and say "it was inevitable" to absolve ourselves of guilt, and hard to force ourselves to self-reflect and actually address the issues the lead to these tragic circumstances. Just kidding! Hundreds of lives are better off letting Troubled Teen A kill Troubled Teen B in a highschool bathroom. go gently caress your selfie, those were my beans! tee hee! What really soured me on the ending was the revelation that nothing mattered outside of that last choice. I don't mean "I left the nest undisturbed, why aren't my bird friends carrying the townspeople to safety?" I mean the Rachel Amber mystery. The realization that the main emotional plot beats (Kate's suicide, finding Rachel's corpse and the Dark Room) could've been solved by doing nothing feels almost darkly funny in a story that is about becoming an active participant in the world around you. Like, is the game one giant timefuck diorama made by the universe to show Max what she could've had if she hadn't waited 'til the last second to reach out to Chloe? Is some divine force giving Max a giant "try harder next time champ" sticker? Or was Chloe's spirit immune to timefuck and gave Max the powers to cheat a little bit more time with her? Did the nature personification/Native American prophecies mean anything? What was Samuel's deal? What's up with the Prescotts and the storm? What's so mysterious about Rachel Amber? Nothing. Red herrings. Made ya look, I guess? The reason I chose the Bay ending is because it felt most satisfactory to the character arcs. Chloe makes a selfless decision (even if her dialogue starts to get a little on the nose). Max faces the consequences of ignoring Chloe for so long...even though apparently her death was a vital nature sacrifice?? I guess I just don't get it. I get what the final question is going for, but the dangling plot threads just make it feel off. I don't see how they could make a Season 2 without tripping over S1. The most thematically satisfying way to have handled the hurricane, imo, would've been for it to host a Banjo-Kazooie style quiz show to see how much you really care about Arcadia Bay. "HOW MANY GIGS OF CAT PIX WERE ON THE STOLEN TABLET?" "uh...13?" "WRONG!" *several blocks are ripped from their foundations and cast into the sea. helpless victims and mangled corpses are flung into the air. a dog pisses on alyssa's shoes.*
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Oct 25, 2015 23:35
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All those cat pictures lost, like tears in the rain.
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Oct 25, 2015 23:50
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I could at least have gotten a funny achievement for rescuing Alyssa all those times.
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Oct 25, 2015 23:55
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Yeah I think the theme of everything would have worked out great if you just didn't do anything was very intentional and also really stupid. It would be one thing if this was a movie but as a game it's silly. Having an ending where you tell the player that their involvement in the game was all a waste feels like some kind of art house thing where you watch the reactions of people after you tell them over ten hours of game play how much their choices matter then take them all away in the last literal minute of the game. It feels like the developers are trying to subvert the choose your path styled games in a meta way and I really don't appreciate it when I just want to play a game and not be part of their art project.a kitten posted:I could at least have gotten a funny achievement for rescuing Alyssa all those times. You should get one for saving her four times then letting her die the last one.
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Oct 25, 2015 23:55
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LoseHound posted:The most thematically satisfying way to have handled the hurricane, imo, would've been for it to host a Banjo-Kazooie style quiz show to see how much you really care about Arcadia Bay. No lie, I'd have probably loved every minute of that. Radish posted:Having an ending where you tell the player that their involvement in the game was all a waste feels like some kind of art house thing where you watch the reactions of people after you tell them over ten hours of game play how much their choices matter then take them all away in the last literal minute of the game. Given all the content of the other episodes, and how weirdly disconnected Ep 5's overall path felt, I'd apply Hanlon's razor; they might simply have had no idea how to end it, which feels understandable. The whole grand arc wove together both Max's reconnecting with her old friend AND the detective story/stories of Rachel Amber and Max's weird time powers. The final episode causes the connection between these to come unwoven, though, and then tries to forcibly stitch them back together with the final decision. It comes off as a clumsy attempt to fix a break in the narrative, rather than an attempt at any particular message. That's my two cents, anyhow. I think I can appreciate it, too; this sort of narrative twist is hard to rejigger and I can appreciate that deadlines might gently caress things up.
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Oct 26, 2015 00:49
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Radish posted:Yeah I think the theme of everything would have worked out great if you just didn't do anything was very intentional and also really stupid. It would be one thing if this was a movie but as a game it's silly. Having an ending where you tell the player that their involvement in the game was all a waste feels like some kind of art house thing where you watch the reactions of people after you tell them over ten hours of game play how much their choices matter then take them all away in the last literal minute of the game. It feels like the developers are trying to subvert the choose your path styled games in a meta way and I really don't appreciate it when I just want to play a game and not be part of their art project. Yet another reason why the Bae over Bay ending is superior No I'm never letting this go why do you ask
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Oct 26, 2015 00:49
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BobTheJanitor posted:(re: ending and choices) It's a valid point, and I'm not saying my opinion is any more correct than anyone else's, but to me neither choice would make all your choices pointless. In the save Arcadia ending, Max would at least have gotten to have a rad kickin' time with Chloe and still been able to stop Jefferson and save Kate and convince Victoria to stop being an rear end in a top hat. In the save Chloe ending Max would've known that live or die she made an impact on the people in the town. I dunno, to me it just seems like ~in real life~ I wouldn't feel cheated after deciding to be nice or rude to people and they inmediately died of a freak accident tomorrow but adding the time travel powers and foreknowledge into it does change things slightly.
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Oct 26, 2015 01:10
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Did anyone else already mention that after saving the goth girl (alyssa?) a bunch of times, she refuses to be helped by you later on because 'every time I see you something flies at my head', or whatever?
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Oct 26, 2015 01:40
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redreader posted:Did anyone else already mention that after saving the goth girl (alyssa?) a bunch of times, she refuses to be helped by you later on because 'every time I see you something flies at my head', or whatever? That only happens if you screw up.
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Oct 26, 2015 01:49
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Geektox posted:
Nope. In the consequence photos you see after the photo-hop ends, it's implied that Nathan is arrested and interrogated, and from this, Rachel's body is found. Kate never attempts suicide because the bad guy was caught. Doing nothing was just as effective as pro-actively seeking a solution. And since I doubt Vicky still feels up to being a Bad Bitch after hearing about her friend get arrested for murder, Max probably never goes through the paint puzzle (and remember, ForeknowledgeMax doesn't resume control until OriginalMax catches up with her in the timeline). There's no playable epilogue, so there's no way of gauging where Max stands with the other characters. It's immensely unsatisfying. Geektox posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQisT4hg450
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Oct 26, 2015 02:12
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