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poo poo, uh, gently caress hello snake return to zero sure whatever please don't kill me again
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Oct 26, 2015 01:18
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The lack of emotion is entirely purposeful, hinting at the alienation of the people on Mother Base, in both the Marxist sense and in the social sense. The player character is himself the best example of this, having been completely transformed into a means of My favourite example of this comes in the cutscene at the end of mission 43; where Venom denies his dead soldiers of a proper burial and instead turns them into a commodity. It's great how it's presented as a really emotional and heroic moment, but it's basically the equivalent of burning the bodies of your workers to keep the factory running. PMCs and the war economy use death as a means of producing wealth, be it sending folks to die and kill in conflicts around the world, or literally turning their corpses into a valuable resources. Soldiers aren't their own people even in death.
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Oct 26, 2015 01:29
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An effective twist does not give you evidence that so completely contradicts what the twist is that you can't conceivably see the possible connections. The twist becomes cheap that way. In MGSV, not only are Venom and Kaz interacted with as two different people, but they are two people frequently at odds, in front of some audience. This becomes evidence that completely contradicts a theory that they are the same after Huey's exile. After that, not only have the two clashed on screen, in front of an audience, but the audience brings it up in their own private conversations, which you overhear. The game never treats Kaz and Venom to be the same person and in doing so provides overwhelmingly contradictory evidence that they can't be, making any possible twist that direction a pretty bad twist. And since it's not actually a part of the narrative, it's pretty safe to make the assumption that they're not.
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Oct 26, 2015 01:29
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The Morpho crash at the climax of Ground Zeroes, why do we see it multiple times in this game? Why are all the starboard lights in the game blue instead of green? Why is the reflection of the light on the minigun green even though the light is blue? Why does receiving a photo of you and Paz from the first wandering soldier trigger a different version of this scene which disagrees with the other depictions, and why is this version the only time in the game we see an accurately-coloured starboard light? Why does it change from blue to green in the space of this one cutscene?  Why the repetition of morpho butterflies? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2esGcZk2yRw&t=128s From which character's perspective do we witness this memory?
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Oct 26, 2015 01:31
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Trojan Kaiju posted:An effective twist does not give you evidence that so completely contradicts what the twist is that you can't conceivably see the possible connections. The twist becomes cheap that way. In MGSV, not only are Venom and Kaz interacted with as two different people, but they are two people frequently at odds, in front of some audience. This becomes evidence that completely contradicts a theory that they are the same after Huey's exile. After that, not only have the two clashed on screen, in front of an audience, but the audience brings it up in their own private conversations, which you overhear. have you not seen fight club or something? how
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Oct 26, 2015 01:34
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mgs4 big boss was making everything up and now will go live out his life in africa with chico and paz
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Oct 26, 2015 01:35
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also dr strangelove will be there because mirrors
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Oct 26, 2015 01:36
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diamond dog posted:have you not seen fight club or something? how Actually yeah I haven't so I don't know if people actually react to both characters and talk about them as two physically separate people. If so then yeah that's my bad.
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Oct 26, 2015 01:38
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It's a good movie, you should check it out.
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Oct 26, 2015 01:42
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Trojan Kaiju posted:Actually yeah I haven't so I don't know if people actually react to both characters and talk about them as two physically separate people. they don't
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Oct 26, 2015 01:44
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They're presented that way to the viewer though. Kaz doesn't actually do anything in this game where it couldn't just be your character talking. In fact that'd make more sense since he gives all the speeches yet you're supposed to be the boss. I'm pretty sure there's some instances of poor eye contact on the part of other characters when he's talking, too. Reminder that I was never putting my chips on Venom being Kaz but someone latched onto it and I was forced to defend the idea. It's an open question. There's other characters missing their right arm, Kaz just makes the most sense to me. You guys would get real mad if I said what I think that might ultimately be pointing to though.
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Oct 26, 2015 01:56
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Yeah Bro posted:My favourite example of this comes in the cutscene at the end of mission 43; where Venom denies his dead soldiers of a proper burial and instead turns them into a commodity. It's great how it's presented as a really emotional and heroic moment, but it's basically the equivalent of burning the bodies of your workers to keep the factory running. PMCs and the war economy use death as a means of producing wealth, be it sending folks to die and kill in conflicts around the world, or literally turning their corpses into a valuable resources. Soldiers aren't their own people even in death. They didn't turn them into diamonds to sell, they turned them into diamonds to wear on their sleeves into battle. The DD patch on your shoulder gets a diamond in it after that cutscene (which is a great little detail by the way). Even in death you're part of the team.
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Oct 26, 2015 02:05
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diamond dog posted:The Morpho crash at the climax of Ground Zeroes, why do we see it multiple times in this game? I think this might just be a slight perceptual misunderstanding/misreading that is actually directly addressed in game. Because the Japanese (and the Japanese language) perceive green as a shade of blue, to people like Kojima's development team and most Japanese players, those starboard lights are definitely the right color, and this is reflected in the language. I can vouch for this perceptual distinction personally because Japanese stoplights look blue to me, an English speaker, and are even referred to as "blue" in the language, but they are effectively green to Japanese people. I also speak Japanese as a second language, though, so some of it has rubbed off on me and I can sometimes conceive of the color distinction from the typical Japanese perspective/understanding. The language now has relatively recently introduced words for green, as well as reinforcement through educational institutions (both mostly from post-WWII stuff, i.e. during the US occupation), so there's greater differentiation, but they still often refer to things like cucumbers and watermelons as being "ao", which generally would be translated as "blue" into English, but in this case means "green". This dimension of perception relating to the ideological/political aspects of language learning, understanding, and spreading, and how language itself can alter your perceptions or understanding of the world, is an important theme to the game, so this starboard light thing is probably exactly the kind of issue Kojima and his development team would find edifying. Some basic wikipedia links that can elucidate this a bit more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ao_(color) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinction_of_blue_and_green_in_various_languages#Japanese AsteriskAsterisk fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 02:08
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Dewgy posted:They didn't turn them into diamonds to sell, they turned them into diamonds to wear on their sleeves into battle. The DD patch on your shoulder gets a diamond in it after that cutscene (which is a great little detail by the way). Yeah, you can pretty much take Venom at his word there. If you look at your Diamond Dogs patch in the ACC after that scene, you'll notice a...shining light  I really liked how in MGS4, Peace Walker, and most of this game, you're led to equate Zero with Cipher. You go through the whole time thinking, "drat, how the gently caress is that nice old British man who likes James Bond and tea running this intel organization with its shady tentacles all over the globe?" But the reveal that, no, Zero's role in Cipher was greatly diminished even by the time of Ground Zeroes and that he's basically a vegetable by the time you're out of your coma was just so well done. Kudos to the new voice actor for Zero. I loved every tape he was in, and the last one where he visits the still-comatose Big Boss in the hospital was probably the high point of the game in terms of plot and voice acting. It really reinforces the fallibility of basically everyone involved and how their actions got way out of hand, eventually leading to the dystopic nightmare scenario of private military companies advertising on TV and in active battlefields in MGS4.
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Oct 26, 2015 02:16
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AsteriskAsterisk posted:I think this might just be a slight perceptual misunderstanding/misreading that is actually directly addressed in game. Because the Japanese (and the Japanese language) perceive green as a shade of blue, to people like Kojima's development team and most Japanese players, those starboard lights are definitely the right color, and this is reflected in the language. Thanks, I'm aware of this thanks to living in asia for several years, and I think because it's addressed in the plot it's even more likely to be relevant than an accident. Kaz was born in 1946, and his American father left before he was born, so he's right on the borderline of this phenomenon. The other one-armed guy in the game speaks Hungarian which apparently has a similar grue concept: quote:Hungarian makes the distinction between green (zöld) and blue (kék), and also distinguishes black (fekete). Intermediate colors between green and blue are commonly referred to as zöldeskék (literally greenish-blue) or kékeszöld (bluish-green), but names for specific colors in this continuum—like turquoise (türkiz)—also exist. Particular shades of a color can also have separate names, such as azure (azúr). diamond dog fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 02:17
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Dewgy posted:They didn't turn them into diamonds to sell, they turned them into diamonds to wear on their sleeves into battle. The DD patch on your shoulder gets a diamond in it after that cutscene (which is a great little detail by the way). Aww, I think I liked the scene more when I didn't know that they kept the diamonds. It's a neat touch to have them visible on their patches, but I like scenes where abhorrent things are presented in a heroic light (like the chico recruitment scene in PW). But I guess I was wrong about this one.
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Oct 26, 2015 02:24
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Yeah Bro posted:Aww, I think I liked the scene more when I didn't know that they kept the diamonds. It's a neat touch to have them visible on their patches, but I like scenes where abhorrent things are presented in a heroic light (like the chico recruitment scene in PW). But I guess I was wrong about this one. To be fair, it's still makes the other diamonds you've been picking up throughout the game kind of different in retrospect. Maybe they're made of somebody's corpses (Both literally or figuratively in the case of the potential slave labor used to harvest them as in Africa) too.
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Oct 26, 2015 02:32
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diamond dog posted:They're presented that way to the viewer though. Kaz doesn't actually do anything in this game where it couldn't just be your character talking. In fact that'd make more sense since he gives all the speeches yet you're supposed to be the boss. I'm pretty sure there's some instances of poor eye contact on the part of other characters when he's talking, too. you haven't watched fight club very well if you think they're comparable
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Oct 26, 2015 02:34
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What do you think I'm trying to compare?
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Oct 26, 2015 02:36
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Wouldn't Kaz being Venom Snake make absolutely no sense, since Venom is killed off before MG2 when Miller shows up?
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Oct 26, 2015 02:46
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Depends whether it's really 1984 or not. Based on the wormholes, weather control, walker gear proliferation and holograms etc that don't fit in with the technology timeline of the rest of the series, and also anachronisms like the sony bitcorder I say it's not, which implies your character is being brainwashed for the entire game.
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Oct 26, 2015 03:00
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are wormholes actually in-context or a video game abstraction?
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Oct 26, 2015 03:07
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Yeah Bro posted:Aww, I think I liked the scene more when I didn't know that they kept the diamonds. It's a neat touch to have them visible on their patches, but I like scenes where abhorrent things are presented in a heroic light (like the chico recruitment scene in PW). But I guess I was wrong about this one. To be fair, there's a good bit of this in Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain. How about escorting POWs to a chopper (with added fanfare as you put them onboard) while they're asking you to get them to a phone so you they can talk to their wife and kids? Those guys are getting conscripted into your oil rig cult ASAP. Ain't gonna be no tearful reunions with their family on Big Boss' watch. And Blood Runs Deep - probably the most dramatic mission in any MGS game - seems really heroic since you're basically faking the execution of child soldiers in order to spare their lives. But that gets turned on its head very quickly when Venom is talking about training them for combat once they're back on Mother Base. And Kaz of all people is the voice of reason when he's like, "dude, no." That's one thing that was executed really well in Phantom Pain. If you opt to extract many of the targets you've been hired to kill, you get new details that, in addition to adding to the plot, portray your targets in a more sympathetic light and thereby call into question everything you're told by Kaz or Ocelot at the outset of a mission. MeatwadIsGod fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 03:10
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What's the deal with the wandering puppets? Why is it every time skulls appear everybody gets turned into puppets (except, conveniently, yourself and your buddy)?
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Oct 26, 2015 03:13
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in Venom's defense, whether they're a hostage or a hostile they're likely to be known and targeted by this global conspiracy it's not like he can just put them on a life boat and ship them back to oh no that's exactly what he did with Huey, isn't it
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Oct 26, 2015 03:14
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setafd posted:are wormholes actually in-context or a video game abstraction? Considering they even stretched to explain the cigar in-universe rather than just having it be a narrative device (i.e., they said "these chemicals literally alter your perception of time" rather than just having it be a thing you smoke to pass the time without getting bored) I'd say it's probably the former.
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Oct 26, 2015 03:15
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literally your first mission from ocelot is to go find him and drag him out of some afghan shack ffs
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Oct 26, 2015 03:19
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setafd posted:in Venom's defense, whether they're a hostage or a hostile they're likely to be known and targeted by this global conspiracy tbf he put busy on a raft because he wanted him to die in an excruciating fashion that it took a few more years is balanced out because huey got cucked by his son and drowned himself
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Oct 26, 2015 03:26
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Just finished the story and everything makes sense as far as this game goes, but overall it's just a mess. I do like how Big Boss creates you as a decoy, and then you go and upstage him by creating a massive base and army while he goes off and creates a much dinkier one. Which then makes you wonder what happens to Mother Base from this game, why did Outer Heaven suck so much in comparison..what was the point of this decoy operation in the first place? They make it a point to say that everyone wants to kill Big Boss, but seriously the only person who ever actually tries to kill you in the game is Quiet. You're never shown to be at risk of assassination, and none of the world powers seem particularly concerned about you either. Also Venom Snake was incredibly obvious(besides the credits that spoiled every single mission and twist in the game), there wasn't a single bit of gushing over all the awesome toys and weapons you get in the entire game. And that's why MGS3 is still the best MGS.
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Oct 26, 2015 03:35
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The only thing left is nuke armament/disarmament. When that happens, nobody knows. Everyone's just waiting for Konami to hit the switch.
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Oct 26, 2015 03:38
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Are we going to talk about helicopter lights until we're all green in the face?
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Oct 26, 2015 03:45
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diamond dog posted:They're presented that way to the viewer though. Kaz doesn't actually do anything in this game where it couldn't just be your character talking. In fact that'd make more sense since he gives all the speeches yet you're supposed to be the boss. I'm pretty sure there's some instances of poor eye contact on the part of other characters when he's talking, too. I unironically wanna know who you think its pointing to. Weird theories about this stuff is cool and good.
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Oct 26, 2015 03:59
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CharlieWhiskey posted:Are we going to talk about helicopter lights until we're all green in the face? Helicopter lights can't melt steel beams
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Oct 26, 2015 04:01
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Zeron posted:Just finished the story and everything makes sense as far as this game goes, but overall it's just a mess. I do like how Big Boss creates you as a decoy, and then you go and upstage him by creating a massive base and army while he goes off and creates a much dinkier one. Which then makes you wonder what happens to Mother Base from this game, why did Outer Heaven suck so much in comparison..what was the point of this decoy operation in the first place? They make it a point to say that everyone wants to kill Big Boss, but seriously the only person who ever actually tries to kill you in the game is Quiet. You're never shown to be at risk of assassination, and none of the world powers seem particularly concerned about you either. Also Venom Snake was incredibly obvious(besides the credits that spoiled every single mission and twist in the game), there wasn't a single bit of gushing over all the awesome toys and weapons you get in the entire game. And that's why MGS3 is still the best MGS. Big Boss didn't create Venom.
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Oct 26, 2015 04:03
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Snak posted:So, as I was first playing MGSV, and there was all this forshadowing of things not being what they seemed, I started to form some crazy theories about what the twist was going to be. Snak posted:yeah, I mean, Ocelot carrying some dumb shotgun upside-down revolver instead of a SAA is like a dead giveaway. I would just like to re-post some stuff Snak once said here, and how it is so much better than the plot we got. Snak for President.
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Oct 26, 2015 04:37
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Anyone have any idea how long it takes online materials to process? I'm less than 400 minor metals away from beginning construction of my nuclear bomb and enacting my evil scheme of preventing the PS3 player base of ever seeing the nuke-free ending.
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Oct 26, 2015 04:38
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diamond dog posted:Here's an example: someone datamined the companion app and found a reference to something called ChicoVilla somewhere to the east of guard post 22 in Africa. This lines up with a strange inaccessible building on a clifftop south east of Nyoba Whatever (with the body pits and unique pair of container buildings). Below this building there's a house with a shed with no door, and a speaker/exhaust fan thing that I haven't seen anywhere else in the game. In Peace Walker Chico says he wants to go hunt bigfoots in Africa. Rather than being smart and dismissing this, I actually explored the area. Things I learned: The africa map is generally a diamond logo with some edits. (I don't see a discernable shape in the afghanistan map.) On the road between guard posts 22 and 23 in africa, there is a driveway blockade but no continuing driveway. Following this phantom driveway, the mission area ends, but on satellite imagery, there are a handful of buildings a few hundred meters out that form a rectangle, like a villa. The area where the phantom villa is one of the deletes from the diamond shape of the africa map. There is actually more poo poo like this that I don't want to type with my phone. Probably deleted content. Possibly a red herring. But very DLC shaped. Hideo said the medium allows for things you can't do elsewhere. And this would include retconning and rewriting inside of a game to continue to gently caress with player agency and identity. This now concludes my  for the evening.
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Oct 26, 2015 04:53
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Yeah Bro posted:Aww, I think I liked the scene more when I didn't know that they kept the diamonds. It's a neat touch to have them visible on their patches, but I like scenes where abhorrent things are presented in a heroic light (like the chico recruitment scene in PW). But I guess I was wrong about this one. It's not quite what you're talking about here but, speaking of alternative interpretations of important events, I rewatched the end of Ground Zeroes recently, paying attention to the medic's appearance and appreciating the subterfuge going on, and I am now quite certain that Venom didn't intend to shield Big Boss from Paz's bomb and that he was caught in the explosion accidentally. When I first watched the scene, I thought it was Big Boss who screamed "Noooo" when Paz threw herself out of the helicopter after revealing the existence of the second bomb. However, if you look carefully you can see that the medic is also reaching out for Paz like Big Boss just as she starts to fall and that he's actually in front of Big Boss. Given what we know from Paz tapes in TPP about how the medic perceived Paz and keeping in mind that the medic's voice is very similar to Big Boss', I think it's possible that the medic is the one who screams "no!" as Paz falls because he loved her like the rest of MSF (and he's a doctor and generally a better person than Big Boss) and that his reaching out for her, being slightly quicker on the take than Big Boss, is the only reason he ended up shielding Big Boss by taking the brunt of the explosion. I like it because it makes the medic more tragic and makes Ocelot's rationalization about turning the medic into Venom Snake - that the medic would have wanted it because he was willing to sacrifice his life for Big Boss' in the helicopter - a lot hollower.
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Oct 26, 2015 05:20
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Raxivace posted:Anyone have any idea how long it takes online materials to process? I'm less than 400 minor metals away from beginning construction of my nuclear bomb and enacting my evil scheme of preventing the PS3 player base of ever seeing the nuke-free ending. Land somewhere in free roam, cross into another zone to trigger a checkpoint, then return to ACC. That should force 500 to process and get you over the hump. I found that online materials process when you're not playing the game. I tried the idle grind by sitting in the back of a truck and leaving my game on overnight and found that only my offline materials processed. You can force your online materials to process in small amounts by repeating the free roam checkpoint method, but you'll need to take a break to see any real progress.
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Oct 26, 2015 05:31
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CharlieWhiskey posted:Rather than being smart and dismissing this, I actually explored the area. If that's the place I'm thinking of it has one of the few Lutea plants in the game too. I've only found two others, one where the fancy bird hangs out behind Code Talker's place and the other near the mountain with the camp you steal walker gears from. No clue what this means, but lutea is the one with the most digoxin according to the database, although it doesn't say it directly. Speaking of map stuff I noticed some of the blurry afghanistan maps you find seem to be pinned upside-down based on how the unreadable text is laid out. After rotating them, if up is north on these maps then they disagree with the iDroid map. So east might really be north? If so I have no idea why and squinting over blurry maps is such a cliche it's probably a red herring. Nemesis Of Moles posted:I unironically wanna know who you think its pointing to. Weird theories about this stuff is cool and good. Assuming we're nearer to end of the metal gear chronology than the beginning it would be too goddamn perfect if V, and therefore Kaz, turned out to be Raiden.
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Oct 26, 2015 06:02
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