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Tab8715 posted:Seconded. Unless someone is about to make a huge mistake, let the gears turn. What if someone is just plain stuck? Let them suffer? Or to be more clear, going by the 3 types of knowledge, what if their block is in the stuff they don't know that they don't know, but they keep beating their head against the stuff the know they don't know thinking the key is in there somewhere?
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Oct 24, 2015 01:21
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In that circumstance, help them out but if the gears are turning then leave it.
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Oct 24, 2015 01:33
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RFC2324 posted:What if someone is just plain stuck? Let them suffer? Then it will be a learning experience that banging your head on a wall won't make a door. For the senior leads our informal policy is we're not going to *tell* you how to do something unless it's absolutely critical or it's something we know you don't have the context with which to apply. We *will* answer specific questions and point the way. However, we will be increasingly reluctant to offer it up when: - you ask us the same question over and over. We are not your help file, you are expected to learn from your experiences. - you ask us our advice and then go, "I disagree. I shouldn't be X, that doesn't sound right". Well, good luck then. Let us know how it turns out. - you ask questions that are specifically addressed in the department/product/team documentation. - you ask questions that are trivial to answer with some application of google. Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Oct 24, 2015 |
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Oct 24, 2015 01:36
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It doesn't hurt to be there for them to talk through the problem. Maybe ask them to explain the problem to you, ask them if they have any questions, and then ask if they want any help.
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Oct 24, 2015 01:39
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My senior admin will bitch and moan when he can't figure something out, but refuses to ask me for help because I'm the new guy. If he's in a good mood I'll usually jump in and give it a try or ask him to walk me through what he's doing, just to get the wheels turning. If he's in a bad mood like the other day when he was grumbling and swearing because the firewall wouldn't accept his configuration changes, I let him struggle through the whole thing. I want to prove myself as resourceful, but I'm not about to adopt a babysitting role for the admin.
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Oct 24, 2015 02:00
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flosofl posted:- you ask us our advice and then go, "I disagree. I shouldn't be X, that doesn't sound right". Well, good luck then. Let us know how it turns out. I love this response, it's the best.
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Oct 24, 2015 02:08
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Asking leading questions to someone who is trying to think through the problem helps, too
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Oct 24, 2015 02:49
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flosofl posted:Then it will be a learning experience that banging your head on a wall won't make a door. I never endorse just giving the answer unless its A) something went wrong in a break/fix and the answer is needed right away to get the system back into prod, or B) The person knows whats up, and is asking you if you remember the command line switch because it will save time in the long run just to get the answer. ie: if the answer is 'use this format' off the top of your head, why not? Saved 10 minutes of google time and got poo poo done quicker. You are supposed to work as a team, and that does mean helping each others efficiency for the good of everyone. It doesn't mean doing each others jobs.
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Oct 24, 2015 02:49
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This is work, not a loving lab exercise in college. You get poo poo done. If you can point someone in the right direction without causing your work to slip, you do it. This isn't a some difficult philosophical question.
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Oct 24, 2015 17:41
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bull3964 posted:This is work, not a loving lab exercise in college. You get poo poo done. If you can point someone in the right direction without causing your work to slip, you do it. The way Fruit Strip words questions is usually pointed and slightly annoying but there is very much a limit to "pointing someone in the right direction." I'm glad you don't agree but maybe you haven't worked in an environment that isn't as cut and dry.
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Oct 24, 2015 17:43
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Of course there's a limit, it's where it starts interfering with my ability to do my job. If the person can't do anything without handholding and is constantly bugging you, tell them that you can't help them right now because you have things you need to do. If it continues, escalate with their manager so they can assess whether or not the person is capable of doing their job. If the thing in question is more of a background research item that's not going to cause a deadline to slip, then you let them puzzle it out because they may come up with something better than you were thinking.
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Oct 24, 2015 17:53
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bull3964 posted:Of course there's a limit, it's where it starts interfering with my ability to do my job. If the person can't do anything without handholding and is constantly bugging you, tell them that you can't help them right now because you have things you need to do. If it continues, escalate with their manager so they can assess whether or not the person is capable of doing their job. Some people are excellent at doing their job and generate much more value than many of us IT people while still being 100% useless and obstinate with technology, (high-powered sales bros in particular)... Hell the CEO just asked me if I could sit down with him some day and teach him how to use his iPhone... Somehow he actually thought to ask me "are you an iPhone guy or an Android guy?" and I'm like well I'm Android but I could wing it and he's like "oh don't worry about it then" so I dodged that bullet but yeah. For me I know some people are going to play dumb forever because they know it's a better value proposition for me to reboot the CFOs laptop once a month instead of him thinking to try it himself... Hey he's happy to sign my near six figures check to remember to do it for him and is grateful every time, so bring it on. Eventually he let me even hire underlings to do it for me. On the other hand, I had to fix the printer on the floor for the grunts five times a day until I was like "gently caress this, too busy, I'll let them figure it out for a change". Lo and behold when they are forced to figure it out themselves they actually do, and remember. Sometimes they even tell people around them how to do things!
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Oct 24, 2015 20:27
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Internet Explorer posted:The way Fruit Strip words questions is usually pointed and slightly annoying
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Oct 24, 2015 22:50
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If you have time to post on SA about it, you have time to point them in the right direction
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Oct 25, 2015 02:33
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go3 posted:If you have time to post on SA about it, you have time to point them in the right direction But the whole point is that sometimes helping people sometimes robs them of the opportunity to learn ahsgubxudvwkeb
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Oct 25, 2015 02:45
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Some of you sound like joys to work with 
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Oct 25, 2015 02:48
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bull3964 posted:Of course there's a limit, it's where it starts interfering with my ability to do my job. If the person can't do anything without handholding and is constantly bugging you, tell them that you can't help them right now because you have things you need to do. If it continues, escalate with their manager so they can assess whether or not the person is capable of doing their job. I had a junior dude literally say to me, "I know I could just Google it, but it's faster if I just ask you." It would take 5 seconds for me to answer, but then he'd never learn how to actually research an issue and fix it. Teach a man to fish, you know? Also, don't encourage laziness.
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Oct 25, 2015 13:58
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Colonial Air Force posted:I had a junior dude literally say to me, "I know I could just Google it, but it's faster if I just ask you." Maybe he'd rather ask you because you can explain why as well as how. Part of mentoring juniors is also getting them to understand why, so they know how to fish, and where to look if deeper problems come up. Google doesn't give exposition.
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Oct 25, 2015 15:44
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evol262 posted:Maybe he'd rather ask you because you can explain why as well as how. Part of mentoring juniors is also getting them to understand why, so they know how to fish, and where to look if deeper problems come up. Google doesn't give exposition. No. He wanted to ask me because he was lazy, and he didn't care that I was busy doing other things.
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Oct 25, 2015 15:58
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Colonial Air Force posted:No. He wanted to ask me because he was lazy, and he didn't care that I was busy doing other things. It was a general statement about why seniors mentoring people may want to answer easily google-able questions anyway, not a specific one about that specific junior.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:47
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Colonial Air Force posted:Also, don't encourage laziness. He says to the thread that has already admitted that laziness is the best motivation for productivity since it leads to automation.
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Oct 25, 2015 17:49
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Methanar fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Aug 6, 2016 |
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Oct 25, 2015 20:50
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For résumés, always convert to PDF. It eliminates the possibility that the person reading will use some ancient word processor that turns your resume into garbage. It also prevents recruiters from making surprise changes.
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Oct 25, 2015 21:59
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Methanar posted:Resume chat: Uhh, I don't really know where to start with this to be honest. It's not good at all. The cover letter is terrible, I'll let the BFC guys touch on why. Your resume shows 1 IT job that you worked at for 4 months. You have a CCNA R&S certificate, but nothing else on your resume even touches on networking. No keywords to get picked up by search engines, nada. Your only other job listed is a 6 month stint as a forklift driver 2 years ago. What happened in between that time? You look like you're halfway through trade school/community college/whatever. You are too verbose with your accomplishments. You don't have to tell me every single thing you've done. The interview is the time to expand on those things. Oh you migrated a physical environment to ESXi? How many machines did you migrate? What kind of hardware did you setup? I can't ask those questions because it's already there. It's all just needs work. It's pretty clear you have a decent foothold into an IT career, but you're not going to get any interviews with this resume. The voice of everything just seems off as well, and comes across... I'm not sure really, a touch elitist, your word choice, phrasing, and overall voice of your writing is a real turnoff and even though you seem technically capable, I wouldn't choose to interview you. Just from reading your resume I assume you're difficult to work with. Now you might be asking why - You have some negative stuff in your resume. "mundane" isn't really a word that belongs on a resume. "lack of documentation", "did not meet the standards of 2015" - The voice of the piece is really robotic, and seems detached. Dear X, I am applying for $position. Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you anywhere on the spectrum? Have issues with interpersonal relationships? Not playing internet doctor, just want to help.
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Oct 25, 2015 22:13
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Methanar posted:If anyone has any ideas on how to make my explanations less wordy and vague I'd be happy to see them.
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Oct 25, 2015 22:46
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skipdogg posted:Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you anywhere on the spectrum? Have issues with interpersonal relationships? Not playing internet doctor, just want to help. That's a bit much. It's his first resume and he's probably trying to sound professional.
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Oct 25, 2015 22:57
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Methanar posted:Resume chat: Think of it like fishing. I wouldn't even use like "modernize", because it carries bad connotations about your predecessor and whether you think you know better than the business. It was modernizing, but let the person reading the resume make inferences. Deploying VMware is good. How much did it save in (hardware, cooling, power, whatever)? Did they have an environment before? Did you do this from scratch? Apply that elsewhere. You got the right idea with projects/accomplishments instead of duties, but missed what they accomplish for the business. Scrap the forklift driver. It's not even remotely relevant to jobs you want. I'd also skip your GPA for an AA (and in general, unless you're applying for jobs at NY financials or something). The WSUS bit is close. Just make it less judge-y. No mundane. You dramatically reduced bandwidth. You also implemented centralized control over it, which is important. As mentioned, leave room for questions. If you need to fill up room, you can put down duties or small projects. Not everything is huge. What daily stuff did you do which improved the business? Cleanup and automation with powershell? Powercli? Cleaning up vlans? Have at it. inb4 someone calls me a business shill. Understanding where your role fits into the needs of the company you work for is important, and a valuable resume/interview/life skill
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Oct 25, 2015 23:14
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Methanar fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Aug 6, 2016 |
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Oct 25, 2015 23:34
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Methanar posted:Originally I had just bullets listing some of the projects I worked on. It was suggested that I briefly explain the significance and benefits of what I had done. I took it too far.
At an entry level, I think you should also have a skills section. This is unimportant for senior-level people, but a summary of things you know and can work with is helpful at your level, especially if you have non-professional experience with any particular technologies, programming languages, etc. This is where you dump poo poo for HR drones to get excited about and pass you on instead of tossing you in the trashcan. Methanar posted:I'm not sure where you're getting a sense of elitism. I did intentionally write it to sound like I was confident in my abilities though. Methanar posted:I was thinking about removing it, but I intended to use my previous manager as one of my references. Should I still remove it? I could reuse the space for dumping keywords. Methanar posted:I liked the GPA being put in because it's perfect. Methanar posted:I mentioned this in the first post. I don't have numbers available to me where I can quantify what actually changed, other than generic "it's better".
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Oct 25, 2015 23:51
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fart
Chickenwalker fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Sep 23, 2018 |
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Oct 26, 2015 06:57
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flosofl posted:- you ask us the same question over and over. We are not your help file, you are expected to learn from your experiences. Holy balls, I have coworkers who do every single one of these on a regular basis. The second one is the one that currently pisses me off to no end, if you want a sounding board, whatever, but stop interrupting me to be a sounding board 5 times a day.
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Oct 26, 2015 14:03
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It looks like I might be inadvertently YOTJing assuming a call with HR goes well. The new gig states network-y stuff will be involved, specifically Juniper kit. My network theory is decent but I have no hands on time with Juniper gear. Can anyone recommend good resources to screw around with virtual kit, like GNS or similar?
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Oct 26, 2015 15:03
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If I remember right, Juniper loves GNS and there are labs and stuff available.
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Oct 26, 2015 16:51
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Vulture Culture posted:With all the attention that's been paid to the autism spectrum lately, I can't believe these things haven't fallen under more ADA scrutiny. Yeah, I am not autistic, but definitely. While the shallow logic of the whole thing makes sense if you don't think too hard, it's really a terrible way to hire people and screen candidates.
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Oct 26, 2015 17:08
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What scrutiny? That employers aren't hiring those that are Autistic?
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Oct 26, 2015 17:26
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Tab8715 posted:What scrutiny? That employers aren't hiring those that are Autistic? Stuart Ishimaru, Acting Chairman of the EEOC posted:We believe the anecdotal experience of many of our members and those of us on the autism spectrum show that these tests do tend to screen out adults on the autism spectrum. Particularly, because they’re being applied in contexts that do not necessarily have those particular skill sets within the essential functions of that job. It’s one thing if these tests are being applied in the context of sales force determination. It’s another thing to be applied in an engineering context or in a data entry job or in another type of job. So we know that these are relatively widespread and we do know that they tend to, because they are generally focused on the nature of the employee’s social interaction, the nature of the employee’s private life, the nature of the prospective employee, to screen out many individuals on the autism spectrum and with other social communication disabilities or with other invisible disabilities. http://autisticadvocacy.org/2009/12/testimony-on-adaaa-proposed-regulations/ I just object to it more as a lovely example of using a "process" to make a decision instead of a person. Too much of business is done by bullshit abdication to process and avoidance of responsibility. The lowest example being, "Well, that's just our policy."
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Oct 26, 2015 17:33
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I'm interviewing for a position that will entail installing chromeboxes. I haven't had one in my hands yet to fool with, I cant imagine there can be all that much to it but any pointers would be a help.
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Oct 26, 2015 17:43
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flosofl posted:- you ask us our advice and then go, "I disagree. I shouldn't be X, that doesn't sound right". Well, good luck then. Let us know how it turns out.
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Oct 26, 2015 18:35
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codo27 posted:I'm interviewing for a position that will entail installing chromeboxes. I haven't had one in my hands yet to fool with, I cant imagine there can be all that much to it but any pointers would be a help. In a large way? Probably Google's GPO integration: https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/188446?hl=en
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Oct 26, 2015 19:19
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AlternateAccount posted:http://autisticadvocacy.org/2009/12/testimony-on-adaaa-proposed-regulations/ I agree that way too much attention is paid to processes over results, but it's wrong to think that engineering doesn't require the same level of interpersonal reaction that sales does, as he states in your quote. Actually, I'd argue that it requires more.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:04
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