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I love you Xenomrph.
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Oct 26, 2015 00:51
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Xenomrph posted:Lets take a brief moment and talk about fandom. This is probably applicable in pretty much any pop culture thread, but I'm posting it here because I have a lot of exposure to Alien fandom, and because I just got to see some of the worst of it on a message board I frequent. This sounds like it happened on SSF forums. That poo poo happened all the goddamn time and it's one of the reasons I'm glad I'm banned. Awful awful nerds. It could be elsewhere, probably AvP-Galaxy. Which also sucks poo poo. The weird part is, I'm like a super hardcore Alien fan to a probably unhealthy point. But I've never felt like I've fit in with "The fandom". I can't think of any fandom I feel like I belong. They usually just latch onto the most mundane and uninteresting aspects of the respected franchises that it's impossible to give a poo poo about anything they're saying. This is especially true for Invader Zim. The worst fandom in the world. I can't relate to 98% of 'em.
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Oct 26, 2015 10:04
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CelticPredator posted:This sounds like it happened on SSF forums. That poo poo happened all the goddamn time and it's one of the reasons I'm glad I'm banned. Awful awful nerds. It could be elsewhere, probably AvP-Galaxy. Which also sucks poo poo. I used to be a mega-ultra-nerd when it came to Alien fandom; I'd get embroiled in the most retarded debates about the smallest minutiae and I was generally a really angry person on those forums (not AvPGalaxy, a different forum). Once that started to bleed over into my every day life, where I found myself stewing over what people on the internet were saying, I realized it was really unhealthy and I just... pulled the plug. I walked away, and didn't post on any sort of Alien messageboards or anything on the internet for several years. I'm weird about my "fandom" because I only really embrace it on the internet. In every day life you'd never really know I was a huge Aliens fanboy - I don't have movie posters and figurines and poo poo all over my house, I don't wear Alien T-shirts, and frankly I get weirded out when I interact with other Aliens fans "in person", even if they want to talk about stuff I'd otherwise enthusiastically talk about on the internet. Maybe it's me consciously/subconsciously trying to not let my fandom define who I am in everyday life, which seems like a pretty healthy way to go. I do find myself zoning out a lot on the AvPGalaxy boards lately because it's almost 100% non-stop Prometheus 2/Blomkamp Alien5 speculation and hand-wringing and over-analysis, and that kind of poo poo bores me to tears.
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Oct 26, 2015 11:44
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I stopped giving a poo poo about canon when I found out that some non canon stuff made things much more interesting. Portable ops is crapped on as a game but I find that it supplements the other games well. But it's usually only Sci fi poo poo and video games that I find run into this problem.
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Oct 26, 2015 13:48
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I've always found it hard to understand people who get seriously invested in canon. It's all made up anyway, so designating certain parts as more made up than others seems needless.
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Oct 26, 2015 14:41
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Party Boat posted:I've always found it hard to understand people who get seriously invested in canon. It's all made up anyway, so designating certain parts as more made up than others seems needless.
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Oct 26, 2015 15:08
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The multiple levels of canon on Wookiepedia or whatever is probably the dumbest thing ever. "This is slightly more made up than this other thing."
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Oct 26, 2015 15:29
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It harkens back to when church elders first decided upon the canon of the bible. This is a nerd slapfight that continues to this day.
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Oct 26, 2015 15:42
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Its big in comic books because they play up on being one long series so often that many people follow them as one long soap opera type series. That was pretty much their entire hook. Since different writers and artists play in the sandbox, you need to separate the stories where you can do whatever the hell you want to with those that try to maintain the continuity. Thus Elseworlds and What Ifs and stuff. Sometimes, this gets extended to other media. Star Wars makes a little sense as they released a ton of tie in stuff that was based on being a serial, and it was one of the most popular things that did this. Other things make a little less sense. But, yeah, basically when something is sold as "TUNE IN TO THE NEXT PIECE OF MEDIA TO CONTINUE THIS STORY!" you don't blame the people who care about that story being continued.
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Oct 26, 2015 15:56
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Full Battle Rattle posted:It harkens back to when church elders first decided upon the canon of the bible. This is a nerd slapfight that continues to this day.
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Oct 26, 2015 16:59
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Xenomrph posted:That's literally the point I brought up on the AvP forums to show that canon debates are silly and retarded. There is no "one canon" for loving world religion, why on earth would there be one for entertainment mass media fiction? Um there is, non-catholics are just heretics.
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Oct 26, 2015 17:14
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Baronjutter posted:Um there is, non-catholics are just heretics. 
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Oct 26, 2015 18:23
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Avp1-2 were good.
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Oct 26, 2015 18:29
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You should evaluate the value of canon to the work you're creating and proceed accordingly. Showing complete contempt for it will just alienate(lol) your audience and cause a disconnection from the suspension of disbelief.
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Oct 26, 2015 18:38
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Lurdiak posted:You should evaluate the value of canon to the work you're creating and proceed accordingly. Showing complete contempt for it will just alienate(lol) your audience and cause a disconnection from the suspension of disbelief.
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Oct 26, 2015 18:52
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Xenomrph posted:What do you mean? I mean that if you're making a sequel to a popular film and get a bunch of events from the first one wrong, you can't expect people to react positively to that. Canon helps works feel like part of a cohesive whole. But it's true that a lot of franchises get far too bogged down in them. You can tell a lot of great stories set in the same universe without caring too much about how things match up. But you can't do that for every type of story, and you need to really think about that aspect before you begin playing with someone else's toys.
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Oct 26, 2015 19:00
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Lurdiak posted:I mean that if you're making a sequel to a popular film and get a bunch of events from the first one wrong, you can't expect people to react positively to that. Canon helps works feel like part of a cohesive whole. But it's true that a lot of franchises get far too bogged down in them. You can tell a lot of great stories set in the same universe without caring too much about how things match up. But you can't do that for every type of story, and you need to really think about that aspect before you begin playing with someone else's toys. Frankly the way you're describing it, canon matters for people actually writing in and contributing to the overarching narrative, and even then it has its limits. Canon shouldn't matter to the end user who isn't actually contributing to the storytelling, though.
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Oct 26, 2015 19:10
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Xenomrph posted:I absolutely agree with all of that, it's just that when you've got people disregarding entire stories because a few minor details are wrong (not seeing the forest for the trees), or people literally trying to force other people to accept things they don't like because "reasons", that canon becomes more of a hindrance than a help. Of course, I was just speaking my thoughts on the broader concept of canon, not necessarily trying to argue with your own post.
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Oct 26, 2015 19:15
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Lurdiak posted:Of course, I was just speaking my thoughts on the broader concept of canon, not necessarily trying to argue with your own post. 
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Oct 26, 2015 19:41
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I know and absolutely agree with the whole "fan identity" thing. My room is covered in Alien toys and posters and all kinds of stuff. But I like to keep it there. Where it belongs. I might wear an Alien hat or something because it's a cool Nostromo hat, but that's about as far as I go. It's a part of me but it's not me. In fact, because this is the Alien thread, here are some pictures of my Alien toys.      
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Oct 26, 2015 21:13
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Is that goop on the cenobyte's mouth part of the model or did you add that?
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Oct 26, 2015 21:15
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I always wondered how Aliens keep hydrated when they're constantly uncontrollably drooling all the gently caress over the place.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:18
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Hbomberguy posted:Is that goop on the cenobyte's mouth part of the model or did you add that? Soap is key for Alien toy photography.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:22
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Baronjutter posted:I always wondered how Aliens keep hydrated when they're constantly uncontrollably drooling all the gently caress over the place. There's always water around. The alien movies are some of the wettest movies ever.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:22
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No-one leapt out of the woodwork to correct my purposefully-wrong naming of the Predator. You all pass the test
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Oct 26, 2015 21:34
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That poor cat.
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Oct 26, 2015 23:44
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Hbomberguy posted:No-one leapt out of the woodwork to correct my purposefully-wrong naming of the Predator. I just thought it was a new thing you were trying out, I was willing to go with it. Nobody talks about real cenobites these days anyway.
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Oct 26, 2015 23:45
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Aliens could be cenobites I guess. They got the look for it.
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Oct 26, 2015 23:53
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They'd have to be the one that chitters, though.
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Oct 26, 2015 23:59
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Richslode posted:That poor cat.
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Oct 27, 2015 00:37
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IM gonna lay it all out on the line and say Event Horizon is the movie Alien wishes it was. Except this time, the monster is us. Or rather, the monster is a ship. Oh my God, can you imagine if an Alien was the size of the ship from Event Horizon? What was the name of the ship? Lewis and Clark, right? Or was it Event Horizon?
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Oct 27, 2015 16:32
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My mistake, there were two ships: Lewis and Clark and the Event Horizon.
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Oct 27, 2015 16:34
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Oh my God, can you imagine of there was an Alien the size of the Lewis and Clark and the Event Horizon put together? Cha-ching!
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Oct 27, 2015 16:35
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That would be farscape. It was pretty good.
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Oct 27, 2015 17:14
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oldpainless posted:IM gonna lay it all out on the line and say Event Horizon is the movie Alien wishes it was. What if the true alien was the size of the moon? And all the crazy monsters were just small fry compared to it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Space_(2008_video_game)
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Oct 27, 2015 17:33
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Lurdiak posted:I mean that if you're making a sequel to a popular film and get a bunch of events from the first one wrong, you can't expect people to react positively to that. Canon helps works feel like part of a cohesive whole. But it's true that a lot of franchises get far too bogged down in them. You can tell a lot of great stories set in the same universe without caring too much about how things match up. But you can't do that for every type of story, and you need to really think about that aspect before you begin playing with someone else's toys. Actually, if the sequel is good in it's own right, then no one should care that it gets facts about the first movie wrong. Canon is an illusion. Free yourself from it.
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Oct 27, 2015 18:05
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Maybe I'm a terrible person but I love films (especially those in established series) that defy expectations and force audiences out of their comfort zones. It's one of the reasons I like Prometheus so much. Ditto for Only God Forgives, which most people expected to be a spiritual sequel to Drive and instead ended up being a weird rejection of it.
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Oct 27, 2015 19:29
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MonsieurChoc posted:Canon is an illusion. So's film-making in general, you still have to abide by rules or you get a hosed up end result.
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Oct 27, 2015 19:38
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Hbomberguy posted:Is that goop on the cenobyte's mouth part of the model or did you add that? Now THERE's a fun crossover idea!
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Oct 27, 2015 19:55
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Party Boat posted:Maybe I'm a terrible person but I love films (especially those in established series) that defy expectations and force audiences out of their comfort zones. It's one of the reasons I like Prometheus so much. Ditto for Only God Forgives, which most people expected to be a spiritual sequel to Drive and instead ended up being a weird rejection of it. I SUPER hated Only God Forgives, but I can totally appreciate the point it's making and kind of wish I was capable of enjoying it - it is very much a Prometheus-ing of Drive. My pro strat is to read every film in a series as belonging to a separate Universe where things work slightly differently. It's the best way to make sense of a series like the original star wars trilogy, or the marvel movies, both of which lack an overall plan beside some basic notes or at least have very different thematic concerns from each other.
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Oct 27, 2015 20:08
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