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ayn rand hand job posted:I was debating putting thr British Life on Mars and Ashes to Ashes on the list, though American Life on Mars was more straight up application.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:05
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:British Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes is literally just the purgatory one. Sorry if I was unclear. That's why I didn't list it.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:08
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Raxivace posted:If anything MGSV is Kojima actually trying to be relatively understated for once. He's still Kojima so it's not like he made a Terrence Malick movie or anything, but still. I applaud both him and the cool game he made for it. I agree with you. I actually like that he is more reserved. Dapper_Swindler posted:Because thats whats "in" now. a couple years ago in was being a angry, yelly guy who yells "gently caress this game", now its being a enlightened hipster who must find every possible critical "critique" they can to sound like the smartest person in the room and allegedly enlighten the world. there are good ones like super bunny hop who are great and have dry humor and actualy have realy good reviews and insights about games. a there are terrible ones like jonathan mcantosh who spend there time crying that video games have violence in them and should all be walking simulators and get triggered at everything, or you get the even worse ones like that PBS dude or that game theory person who just make poo poo up to sound smart and steal ideas. I think you are misinterpreting McIntosh 's view. I think he us more criticizing gaming as a whole in that it rare where we can get a game that doesn't involve shooting poo poo. Alien Isolation and Deadly Premonition come to mind.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:23
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How long is this game? I got it when it came out and I have not been able to play it yet but if it is too long I feel like I might as well move on to Assassins Creed Syndicate because I do not have the time anymore. Also do you need to have played the previous games to know what is going on because this would be my first metal gear solid game.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:31
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diamond dog posted:I'm not being laughed at, I'm arguing with one dipshit who thought he'd get kudos for repeating in earnest jokes that other users were making (which were funny, and I was playing into the loon thing because it was funny, but you aren't funny or original you're just territorial about a video game for some reason) who desperately wants to characterise me as a kyoon and keeps going back to that well because you haven't got any other legs to stand on. Masterful troll or psychotic imbecile, which side of the mirror are you?
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Oct 26, 2015 20:38
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jagstag posted:Also do you need to have played the previous games to know what is going on because this would be my first metal gear solid game. Not really. The major events setting up the story are touched on in the game. It's also in a weird spot chronologically, since it's basically a bridge between the MGS3/Peace Walker Big Boss era and the MGS/MGS2/MGS4 Solid Snake era. You might appreciate some poo poo that happens more if you are familiar with the Solid Snake era, but if isn't going to detract from the game.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:38
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jagstag posted:How long is this game? I got it when it came out and I have not been able to play it yet but if it is too long I feel like I might as well move on to Assassins Creed Syndicate because I do not have the time anymore. Also do you need to have played the previous games to know what is going on because this would be my first metal gear solid game. I've got about 75 hours clocked in right now, although I suppose I did see the ending a while ago. If your two concerns are "Is this game long" and "Will I be confused if I don't know the backstory", then I honestly might have to suggest you look at another game. TPP is a fantastic game, but it will take you a long time to play and most likely won't make a lick of sense when half the game is referring to things you have no context for. The game is still enjoyable on its own, definitely, but you might have to power through those two problem areas to get at it.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:39
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blackguy32 posted:I agree with you. I actually like that he is more reserved. Assuming we are talking about the same guy, he complained about all the violence going on in the Doom preview. While DP does indicate a general trend to fall back on combat to make the game more comfortable for consumers, it doesn't really work in Doom when that's the crux of the game.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:39
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blackguy32 posted:I agree with you. I actually like that he is more reserved. He seems to not like violence in media in general and he thinks the esrb is shield for the gaming industry. https://twitter.com/radicalbytes/status/329432068780081153 to me he comes off as lefty pretentious clown who is only slightly better then jack thompson because doesn't outright call for censorship and i think anita would probably be liked alot more if she fired his stupid rear end. i dont disagree with them on sexism,(though i think they tend swerve to the swerf side) but when ever the touch on violence they start to sound like prudes. this is just my opinion though. jagstag posted:How long is this game? I got it when it came out and I have not been able to play it yet but if it is too long I feel like I might as well move on to Assassins Creed Syndicate because I do not have the time anymore. Also do you need to have played the previous games to know what is going on because this would be my first metal gear solid game. i put like 60 hours into it at least, but that was over a couple weeks. it has a very episodic feel with the missions so you can stop at anytime.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:41
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ayn rand hand job posted:I was debating putting thr British Life on Mars and Ashes to Ashes on the list, though American Life on Mars was more straight up application. The american life on mars had the single worst plot twist ive ever sat through hoping that there was a double fake out cause nothing could be quite that bad.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:46
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Trojan Kaiju posted:Assuming we are talking about the same guy, he complained about all the violence going on in the Doom preview. While DP does indicate a general trend to fall back on combat to make the game more comfortable for consumers, it doesn't really work in Doom when that's the crux of the game. I'm pretty sure you missed blackguy32's entire point. DP wasn't an example of a game that toned down on the violence to make it more comfortable, it was a game that was interesting because the focal point of the gameplay wasn't on "shoot things with guns", which is something that lot of games settle on. The complaint is not that Doom is too violent in content, the complaint is that Doom is, in McIntosh's view, yet another game where essentially all of the gameplay seems to be centered around shooting at things with your guns. Crappy Jack fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 20:47
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Crappy Jack posted:I'm pretty sure you missed blackguy32's entire point. DP wasn't an example of a game that toned down on the violence to make it more comfortable, it was a game that was interesting because the focal point of the gameplay wasn't on "shoot things with guns", which is something that lot of games settle on. The complaint is not that Doom is too violent in content, the complaint is that Doom is, in his view, yet another game where essentially all of the gameplay seems to be centered around shooting at things with your guns. Deadly Premonition has lots of horrible, horrible third person shooter scenes that are never fun and hurt the game by being there. It's not the focus, but it's still there and it's still awful.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:55
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Crappy Jack posted:I'm pretty sure you missed blackguy32's entire point. DP wasn't an example of a game that toned down on the violence to make it more comfortable, it was a game that was interesting because the focal point of the gameplay wasn't on "shoot things with guns", which is something that lot of games settle on. The complaint is not that Doom is too violent in content, the complaint is that Doom is, in his view, yet another game where essentially all of the gameplay seems to be centered around shooting at things with your guns. https://twitter.com/radicalbytes/status/610299196621479936 not really. he seems to view it as a bad thing. he tries to guilt trip people about it. he believes that it "damages" the gaming community. 
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Oct 26, 2015 20:56
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Surlaw posted:Deadly Premonition has lots of horrible, horrible third person shooter scenes that are never fun and hurt the game by being there. It's not the focus, but it's still there and it's still awful. Right, and those were included because the publishers said you need to have shooting in your game or else no one would buy it, so SWERY put it in, and yet literally everybody who played it thinks that the game would have been even better if you took out the lovely shooting sections that SWERY didn't want in the first place. That's another thrust of the argument, that people making games assume people won't even buy them unless you have combat sections.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:58
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jagstag posted:How long is this game? I got it when it came out and I have not been able to play it yet but if it is too long I feel like I might as well move on to Assassins Creed Syndicate because I do not have the time anymore. Also do you need to have played the previous games to know what is going on because this would be my first metal gear solid game. Even if you played all the previous games, you still won't know what the gently caress is going on. This game has a serious lack of references to past games, which can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you look at it. Especially since MGS4 was chock to the loving brim with past game references.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:58
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Crappy Jack posted:Right, and those were included because the publishers said you need to have shooting in your game or else no one would buy it, so SWERY put it in, and yet literally everybody who played it thinks that the game would have been even better if you took out the lovely shooting sections that SWERY didn't want in the first place. That's another thrust of the argument, that people making games assume people won't even buy them unless you have combat sections. I actually kinda like DP's gunplay, though I've barely played any of it so far. It's got a very old school Resident Evil kind of feel to it.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:59
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Crappy Jack posted:Right, and those were included because the publishers said you need to have shooting in your game or else no one would buy it, so SWERY put it in, and yet literally everybody who played it thinks that the game would have been even better if you took out the lovely shooting sections that SWERY didn't want in the first place. That's another thrust of the argument, that people making games assume people won't even buy them unless you have combat sections. There are a huge number of people playing MGSV as the very first MGS game and I am willing to be that a massive part of that is because its a shooter.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:00
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Even if you played all the previous games, you still won't know what the gently caress is going on. This game has a serious lack of references to past games, which can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you look at it. Especially since MGS4 was chock to the loving brim with past game references. I suggested to my girlfriend, that she play it in this order 3/1/pw/GZ&5/2/4. then you get all the story in good order relatively.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:00
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I suggested to my girlfriend, that she play it in this order 3/1/pw/GZ&5/2/4. then you get all the story in good order relatively. I kinda like this, but I would put MGS 1 before 3. It's the iconic one that most uber-fans started with, and the basis of all the other games. MGS3 has a ton of MGS1 references.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:03
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I suggested to my girlfriend, that she play it in this order 3/1/pw/GZ&5/2/4. then you get all the story in good order relatively. Or chop 2 and 4 off and never hear about nanomachines or raiden
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Oct 26, 2015 21:04
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I kinda like this, but I would put MGS 1 before 3. It's the iconic one that most uber-fans started with, and the basis of all the other games. MGS3 has a ton of MGS1 references. true, but 3 kinda shows where everything starts so you sorta have a better idea of what happens in 1. idk. i like 3 the best :3
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Oct 26, 2015 21:06
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CharlieWhiskey posted:Or chop 2 and 4 off and never hear about nanomachines or raiden A world without nanomachines or Raiden is a world without Revengeance, and that's not a world I want to live in.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:09
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CharlieWhiskey posted:Or chop 2 and 4 off and never hear about nanomachines or raiden Okay but 2 is awesome 
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Oct 26, 2015 21:09
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Dapper_Swindler posted:true, but 3 kinda shows where everything starts so you sorta have a better idea of what happens in 1. idk. i like 3 the best :3 I don't see how the plot of MGS3 sets up anything in MGS1. Other than finally answering the question "Who the gently caress is this Big Boss guy everyone wont shut up about?" Ocelot's character in 3 was very interesting because you had already seen in him in 1 and 2, for instance. Half the fun of the series (to me) is how the games reference one another, which is why MGS5's plot disappointed me.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:11
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Even if you played all the previous games, you still won't know what the gently caress is going on. This still isn't true no matter how many times it's said. Dewgy posted:I actually kinda like DP's gunplay, though I've barely played any of it so far. It's got a very old school Resident Evil kind of feel to it. It gets worse and worse as the game goes on and the action sequences get longer and enemies become more bullet spongey.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:13
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I guess it depends on what people mean when they say "won't know what the gently caress is going on" It's definitely true that playing previous games won't give you any insight into Skull Face, Mantis, or The Man On Fire's motivations or actions. Or Quiet's or Huey's.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:15
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Surlaw posted:This still isn't true no matter how many times it's said. MGSV's story largely takes place in a vacuum. Here's a list of things in MGSV off the top of my head that are never referenced in any other MGS games: Skullface The Skulls Vocal chord parasites Quiet D-Dog Code Talker Sahelanthropis Actually every character except for Big Boss, Huey, Kaz and Ocelot. And I hardly even want to count Ocelot because he doesn't act like Ocelot. I think Ocelot should have been replaced with Campbell. I could go on and on. At no point was there a revelation in the game that was assisted by knowing something about the past games, with the sole exception of Eli. I guess the AI Pod and Strangelove being mentioned in passing? Even Gas Mask Kid doesn't count because he doesn't actually do anything that Psycho Mantis does except wear a Gas Mask and float. The Man on Fire being Volgin was a completely pointless reference that added nothing. edit: The main reason I say this is because a new player that is playing the prologue for MGSV is probably thinking "Wow I have no idea what's going on. Maybe I should play the past games and I will understand". This simply isn't the case. SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 21:17
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diamond dog posted:I'm not being laughed at, I'm arguing with one dipshit who thought he'd get kudos for repeating in earnest jokes that other users were making (which were funny, and I was playing into the loon thing because it was funny, but you aren't funny or original you're just territorial about a video game for some reason) who desperately wants to characterise me as a kyoon and keeps going back to that well because you haven't got any other legs to stand on. Grizzeled Patriarch really summed this up better but my issue is you're not really providing a reading at all, you're pointing to a handful of incredibly minor details which you yourself admit could well just be deliberate red herrings and claiming it's evidence the events of the entire game are a lie and what actually happened is '???' because '???'. It about as compelling and interesting as 'what is Squall died on disc 1? really makes u think ...' and doesn't add to the game in any way at all. I'll be the first to admit I don't have the strongest grasp of everything which is going on in this game and that's why it's fun to have a discussion about and get other peoples ideas, but discounting 99.95% of the game to focus of some hypothetical alternate reality that is never once brought up textually doesn't strike me as discussing the game as inventing another out of whole cloth to speculate on. As I said earlier, even MGS2, which was by far Kojima's most deceptive and meta-fictional game still actually laid out what was happening and directly discussed it at length in its last act because that is what competent storytelling does, if the audience leaves without even having a inkling that there was a plot twist its fair the say you've pretty conclusively failed in conveying whatever it was you wanted to convey. So with that in mind, discusssing the hidden meaning of a shack outside of the level geometry or why NPCs blink oddly just strikes me as a waste of time when nothing you've said suggests they're actually tied in any way to the concepts or ideas raised in the game Anyway, I apologise for going straight to snark earlier on, I didn't mean to drag this down into a forum slapfight, I just fundamentally disagree with everything you've written!
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Oct 26, 2015 21:31
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Snak posted:I guess it depends on what people mean when they say "won't know what the gently caress is going on" It's true that it won't explain much about these guys (and I think it's fine that they're mostly self contained characters) but I don't think I would have liked 5's story as much as I did without knowing who Big Boss/Miller/Zero were. The cycles of violence/fate/control that are a big part of the game work best with knowledge of the other titles. It's not completely necessary (outside of Ground Zeroes) but I do think it helps.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:35
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I suggested to my girlfriend, that she play it in this order 3/1/pw/GZ&5/2/4. then you get all the story in good order relatively. I'd suggest to play them in order of release, as each game thematically references the previous with stuff like MGS2 being a direct response to and subversion of MGS1 and MGS3 doing a similar thing with MGS2 with its return its earnest espionage adventure roots. Also the gameplay evolved with each entry so you won't go from the relative sophistication and freedom of MGS3 to 'Solid Snake: Awkwardly Moving Man' in MGS1
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Oct 26, 2015 21:40
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Surlaw posted:It's true that it won't explain much about these guys (and I think it's fine that they're mostly self contained characters) but I don't think I would have liked 5's story as much as I did without knowing who Big Boss/Miller/Zero were. The cycles of violence/fate/control that are a big part of the game work best with knowledge of the other titles. i can kinda understand huey, i guess. he was just otacon with out any of the redeeming factors. He is willing to sell out his compatriots for nothing. Honestly. to me the most annoying thing he did is when he executed skullface and started cheering "revenge" like a clown, like it was some amazing feat to execute a crushed amputee.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:45
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i can kinda understand huey, i guess. he was just otacon with out any of the redeeming factors. He is willing to sell out his compatriots for nothing. Honestly. to me the most annoying thing he did is when he executed skullface and started cheering "revenge" like a clown, like it was some amazing feat to execute a crushed amputee. I like Huey as both a "fun to hate" character and as a contrast to the selflessness of his son. You're totally right that he has no redeeming characteristics and I actually dig that. He is a clown.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:49
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Surlaw posted:I like Huey as both a "fun to hate" character and as a contrast to the selflessness of his son. You're totally right that he has no redeeming characteristics and I actually dig that. He is a clown. this. and in one of the tapes he makes some great points about kaz and the rest of the diamond dogs, even if he is a piece of poo poo, he does sound like a voice of reason to an extent. plus all they do is torture the poo poo out of him. but my question is. did he know the inspection was a fake, I think as lovely as he is, i don't think he fully knew until they arrived. then skullface puts a gun to his head and wheels him out.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:56
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i can kinda understand huey, i guess. he was just otacon with out any of the redeeming factors. He is willing to sell out his compatriots for nothing. Honestly. to me the most annoying thing he did is when he executed skullface and started cheering "revenge" like a clown, like it was some amazing feat to execute a crushed amputee. Huey did everyone a favour really. You know what happens in this series when you leave someone probably certainly dead, and in a game where people have easy access to cybernetic limbs no less? They really dodged a bullet with Huey pulling the trigger
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Oct 26, 2015 22:00
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Dapper_Swindler posted:this. and in one of the tapes he makes some great points about kaz and the rest of the diamond dogs, even if he is a piece of poo poo, he does sound like a voice of reason to an extent. plus all they do is torture the poo poo out of him. but my question is. did he know the inspection was a fake, I think as lovely as he is, i don't think he fully knew until they arrived. then skullface puts a gun to his head and wheels him out. We don't know for sure, it's really up to interpretation. If he thought the inspection was legit, then he was a naive idiot just like his son who wanted his organization to be officially recognized by the UN who was forced to work for Cipher. Then 9 years later, him defecting to join Diamond Dogs was him trying to come back home and Kaz was barking up the wrong tree trying to get Huey to confess that he set up MSF and he really was loyal to them until the torture sessions killed whatever loyalty he had to them, leading to him trying to go back to Cipher in the end. If he really was setting them up, then Huey's an rear end in a top hat who will switch sides at the drop of a hat if the grass looks greener. Cipher made him an offer he couldn't refuse around the time of GZ, so he set his old home ablaze on their orders and moved on to greener pastures and crawled back to Big Boss after realizing that the grass wasn't actually greener. Then he found that everyone hated him and realized that Cipher was probably better in the end, leading to him trying to go back.
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Oct 26, 2015 22:06
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I suggested to my girlfriend, that she play it in this order 3/1/pw/GZ&5/2/4. then you get all the story in good order relatively. I think playing them in order is probably the best, just because it shows the progression of the gameplay mechanics, as well as it being easier to follow the progression of themes, ideas, and social issues presented. Putting MGS2 before V is sort of essential because appears to be a direct contrast to it in terms of what happens to the player and main character. 2's idea that Raiden can't or shouldn't try to be Solid Snake, the legendary soldier and hero, but rather be his own individual, is completely torpedoed by V, where the ultimate fate of the protagonist and player is to literally become and embody the figure, idea, and legacy of Big Boss, and for Big Boss to slip off into the former "any-man" identity of the player/protagonist, down to having their name, birthdate, and face on his passport. Raiden throws away his dog tags; Big Boss receives "your" passport. As a quick rundown: MGS2 takes the protagonist out of the player's control in the narrative, having him say and do things that the player "wouldn't want" making both Raiden and the player chase the feeling of "being" Solid Snake without ever granting that catharsis, while MGSV does the opposite, giving the player ultimate agency (or so it would seem), and stating outright that your actions and decisions in missions (killing or fultoning, building up motherbase, developing items, recruiting/using buddies, anything in the game) are all in service of crafting you into Big Boss and fulfilling your role by actually just making you the man himself, for all intents and purposes. It says that such a thing is definitely possible, and tries to make it seem desirable or cool as an outcome or goal. It appears to be a disruption or break, but I think it's more of a continuation of MGS2's ideas and themes. The final twist of V fulfills the idea of the player being Big Boss, while at the same time denying the "actuality" of this by making the protagonist "some other guy" (even though he has "become" Big Boss). Likewise, all of the "desirable and cool" aspects of MGSV's attempt to marry this "becoming" theme with gameplay gets undercut by the fact that the protagonist is made into Big Boss without his knowledge or consent, has questionable sanity, lives a monotonous, hellish daily life as a soldier in endless conflicts with no meaning to him, and that the player's actions actually ultimately have no real value or consequence. You the player don't actually get revenge in any sense: you don't kill Skull Face, you don't destroy Cipher, you don't confront Zero, you don't deal with Paz, you don't right any wrongs. It doesn't matter whether or not Quiet lives in your initial encounter; she disappears eventually, anyway. You have no choice in the matter with Huey. You get no closure with Eli, Mantis, Sahelanthrophus, all of which disappear without you even having the chance to intervene. After the initial "revenge" happens, both the player and Venom return to a life of missions that mostly only increase in difficulty with no real narrative reward, and no real gains, other than personal satisfaction or entertainment. Nothing that you do really matters, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that the futures of both Big Boss and Venom Snake are actually outside your control forever, except in the sense that you can play as Solid Snake and kill them both in Metal Gears 1&2. And then Big Boss doesn't even actually die until MGS4. drat, that was too many words about video games. I apologize.
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Oct 26, 2015 22:12
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ChaosArgate posted:We don't know for sure, it's really up to interpretation. e. the facade starts cracking even earlier with Huey falling for Ocelot's story telling trick about Strangelove's death, but still sort of open to blaming it on him being truth serum drunk or something if you really wanted to take a bullet for that rear end in a top hat. Shining lights is purestrain, sober Huey doing what Huey does. zedprime fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 22:28
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zedprime posted:For a while I was not really on Huey's side, but at least leaning toward his treatment being some sort of commentary on torture making things worse and providing bad intel. But his behavior around Shining Lights Even In Death sort of cement any mixed interpretations about Huey's psychological state as firmly sociopathic. Like his actions around the nuclear inspection and Strangelove's death are open to a benefit of the doubt interpretation, until Shining Lights hits you over the head with the "Huey's an rear end in a top hat" stick. i cant believe i forgot about that part. He releases voice cancer so he get a better deal with cipher and then he has the loving balls to blame V when he has to end the suffering off those he infected. gently caress huey. i am glad he got cucked by hal.
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Oct 26, 2015 22:38
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actully just start with 3 because it's good
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Oct 26, 2015 22:42
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corn in the bible posted:actully just start with 3 because it's good I think release order is best. 3 is great, but it's also a nice breath of fresh air from 2.
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Oct 26, 2015 22:58
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