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MikeCrotch posted:
Oh yeah, we stepped behind a tree. It wasn't like he went "hey guys check this out" and flung it into the flames.
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Oct 26, 2015 16:53
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I imagine you had to stand back a bit while waiting for it to burn out?
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MikeCrotch posted:
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Oct 26, 2015 16:53
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WW2 Data This week is all about the IJN's 8cm, or is it 76.2mm, ammunition. What kind of propellant was used? What old form of picric acid was used in some examples? (Not in the above blog post) And since we're close to the spookiest time of the year, what German projectile was named after a Batman villain? The answer this Saturday.
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Oct 26, 2015 16:59
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Keldoclock posted:
I thought the most dangerous loving stuff in a warzone (for civilians) would be, dehydration, starvation, sleep deprivation, and soldiers. (No matter if they're the enemy or not.)
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Oct 26, 2015 17:01
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Tekopo posted:TNT isnt really that explosive without a detonator of some kind A lot of modern explosive compounds are like this, people started looking at how to make rather stable explosives that needed concerted effort to set off pretty early on, since nitroglycerine isn't something you want to be trundling around a war zone no matter how useful it might be if you can set it off at the right place and time. Not that you should just chuck mortar shells into the fire, since it's still going to probably burn with a little more enthusiasm than any old log.
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Oct 26, 2015 17:04
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Tekopo posted:TNT isnt really that explosive without a detonator of some kind There are plenty of things that would make me shy away from a fire that aren't strictly explosive
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Oct 26, 2015 17:08
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FAUXTON posted:Not that you should just chuck mortar shells into the fire, since it's still going to probably burn with a little more enthusiasm than any old log. Don't throw in shotgun shells with only the shot taken out. The wad is still a dangerous projectile, as evidenced by the guy who got hit in the leg and had a 1cm wide hole. Guy who threw the round into the fire got lucky, cause it could've been a lot worse.
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Oct 26, 2015 17:12
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Tekopo posted:TNT isnt really that explosive without a detonator of some kind True, although I would have a bit less trust for a rusty shell that's been buried in ground for decades. All explosives tend to become unpredictable after some time even in ideal conditions and I'd very much prefer only to handle potentially deadly things that behave 100% predictably.
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Oct 26, 2015 17:17
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Don't throw in shotgun shells with only the shot taken out. The wad is still a dangerous projectile, as evidenced by the guy who got hit in the leg and had a 1cm wide hole. Guy who threw the round into the fire got lucky, cause it could've been a lot worse. I thought cooking off projectiles weren't particularly dangerous, because the lack of a chamber and barrel meant the propellant gases weren't focused? I seem to remember this thread having an example of firemen walking around a burning stack of ammo with round popping off with not much concern, but I am also a pinko European who will probably never touch a gun in his life so am happy to be proved wrong.
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Oct 26, 2015 17:26
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MikeCrotch posted:I thought cooking off projectiles weren't particularly dangerous, because the lack of a chamber and barrel meant the propellant gases weren't focused? I seem to remember this thread having an example of firemen walking around a burning stack of ammo with round popping off with not much concern, but I am also a pinko European who will probably never touch a gun in his life so am happy to be proved wrong. I would think that story relies on the bullet being so much heavier than the casing that the casing is what goes flying. The empty shot shell is probably heavier than the wadding, and then there's the possibility that it backed up against a log or whatever...
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Oct 26, 2015 17:37
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MikeCrotch posted:I thought cooking off projectiles weren't particularly dangerous, because the lack of a chamber and barrel meant the propellant gases weren't focused? I seem to remember this thread having an example of firemen walking around a burning stack of ammo with round popping off with not much concern, but I am also a pinko European who will probably never touch a gun in his life so am happy to be proved wrong. This is true, but you don't want to stand close to it at all. The bullet may not come out with lethal energy, but it may still come out with enough force to put a hole in a limb. Just because the round bounces off your skull instead of penetrating doesn't mean that you really want it to hit you in the face.
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Oct 26, 2015 17:43
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LordSaturn posted:I would think that story relies on the bullet being so much heavier than the casing that the casing is what goes flying. The empty shot shell is probably heavier than the wadding, and then there's the possibility that it backed up against a log or whatever... Don't forget that a shotgun shell without the pellets/slug isn't completely empty and acts as a pseudo-barrel for the wad so it can still get some distance, just not as much as if it was in an actual barrel For reference, innards of a standard shotgun shell. 
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Oct 26, 2015 17:46
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Grand Prize Winner posted:How does anyone living in a former ww2 battlezone make it to adulthood? Jesus. By following my rule of not loving around with UXO without tools, instructions or a bomb squad. Most of the land where significant amounts of people live has UXO potential, if not a large presence. Some places, like, say, Thailand, Afganistan, it's particularly lovely. Klaus88 posted:I thought the most dangerous loving stuff in a warzone (for civilians) would be, dehydration, starvation, sleep deprivation, and soldiers. (No matter if they're the enemy or not.) No. It won't come and kill you by surprise. Even friendly soldiers will come and take your stuff, but not you know, your loving legs. Jobbo_Fett posted:Don't throw in shotgun shells with only the shot taken out. The wad is still a dangerous projectile, as evidenced by the guy who got hit in the leg and had a 1cm wide hole. Guy who threw the round into the fire got lucky, cause it could've been a lot worse. Do you mean the primer? What? A shotgun wad is literally a piece of inert plastic. e: thanks for posting that picture. Why would you ever throw ammunition into a fire anyways? Even when I was only 7 years old I knew that it was much more fun to get a pipe the right size and put it between two rocks or bricks and light a match under the primer  Kids, even when they know its stupid they still do it.
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Oct 26, 2015 18:33
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Keldoclock posted:No. It won't come and kill you by surprise. Even friendly soldiers will come and take your stuff, but not you know, your loving legs. Does anyone want to speculate how many more civilians have been killed by war-related famine and disease than UXO in history? How about in just the 20th century? How about just the 21st century?
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Oct 26, 2015 18:43
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Keldoclock posted:Why would you ever throw ammunition into a fire anyways? Even when I was only 7 years old I knew that it was much more fun to get a pipe the right size and put it between two rocks or bricks and light a match under the primer Because idiots with alcohol + naivete Never went back to that idiot's neck of the woods since.
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Oct 26, 2015 18:45
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bewbies posted:Does anyone want to speculate how many more civilians have been killed by war-related famine and disease than UXO in history? How about in just the 20th century? How about just the 21st century? Oh my god, you are missing the point. Lets say you are on a cliff. What's the biggest threat to your life? It's falling off the cliff. The fact that there is no food on the cliff is really unimportant considering the fact that one slip could kill you, and once you are already falling there is very little you can do to mitigate the damage or reverse it. Read my post again. I said that none of those things will kill you by surprise. You will have time to react to those problems and try to resolve them somehow. If you think that I was somehow advocating for strategic bomb-defusal manual stockpiles, you're arguing against a strawman. It's the difference between the danger of a thug who is standing 10 meters from you pointing a gun at you and the danger of a factory worker who lives halfway across the earth making you economically unnecessary. e: Fangz posted:*Pushes the 'Shut Up Keldoclock' button* t  t
Keldoclock fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 18:54
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IM_DA_DECIDER posted:You're Austrian right? Do you remember when/where that happened? Simmering. A few years back. I think they made it to the Darwin award. We also have sorts of chavs. A quick search makes it look like people dig this up quite frequently around here. Here's another boom: http://derstandard.at/1931796/Prozess-Sammler-wollte-Granate-in-Briefbeschwerer-umbauen Power Khan fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 18:55
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*Pushes the 'Shut Up Keldoclock' button* Edit: I think discussing the relative merits of UXO and starvation is incredibly tedious. Fangz fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 18:56
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Keldoclock posted:Oh my god, you are missing the point. Lets say you are on a cliff. What's the biggest threat to your life? It's falling off the cliff. The fact that there is no food on the cliff is really unimportant considering the fact that one slip could kill you, and once you are already falling there is very little you can do to mitigate the damage or reverse it. If the statistics somehow demonstrated that thousands of people died every year from starvation while standing on a cliff while only three died from falling off, I'd suggest that the lack of food is in fact more dangerous. You could use the argument you're using now to say that shark attacks are more dangerous than drowning because one shark bite out of nowhere could end you by surprise while you have time to react and recover from drowning, despite the fact that far more people die from drowning than shark attacks. Also your original post talked about UXO being the second-most dangerous things in a warzone without any qualifiers, so you're kinda backpedaling here.
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Oct 26, 2015 19:01
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hi. everything hurts P-Mack posted:Halberds were commonly used by officers since they are easier to walk around the formation with than pikes. There was an early trend for putting swords and halberds and poo poo in the front ranks, but I think it quickly moves toward all pike by the 17th century.
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Oct 26, 2015 19:02
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Ill just toss this here for the burning ammo discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SlOXowwC4c I wouldn't roast marshmellows over it but you're not going to kill the neighborhood or your local FD if you have a crate get caught up in a house fire.
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Oct 26, 2015 19:02
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Fangz posted:*Pushes the 'Shut Up Keldoclock' button* For fucks sake wait until he says something stupid. The shut up Keldoclock spam is more annoying at this point than he was. He's pretty on-point about UXO being something you don't want to gently caress around with.
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Oct 26, 2015 19:04
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Tomn posted:shark attacks are more dangerous than drowning Tomn posted:Also your original post talked about UXO being the second-most dangerous things in a warzone without any qualifiers, so you're kinda backpedaling here. HEY GAL posted:everything hurts My condolences.  your joints Cyrano4747 posted:burning ammo Oh yeah! I was more baffled at the thought of wasting perfectly good ammunition then concerned about danger. Cythereal posted:Can we all agree that you just shouldn't gently caress with explosives you find, period? If you don't know what you are doing, yes, stay the gently caress away. That's why I prefaced my first post with "if you have not already learned this lesson" because, well, there's evidently always someone who doesn't. Keldoclock fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 19:05
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Keldoclock posted:My condolences. ArchangeI posted:Has both a guy with a halberd(?) standing on the left looking fancy and another guy using a pike-ish instrument to give the lads a bit of extra courage.
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Oct 26, 2015 19:09
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Can we all agree that you just shouldn't gently caress with explosives you find, period?
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Oct 26, 2015 19:15
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^^^^^^: laaaaaaaame.HEY GAL posted:hi. everything hurts reenacting a 30yw disease outbreak? hardcore Grand Prize Winner fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 19:17
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Cythereal posted:Can we all agree that you just shouldn't gently caress with explosives you find, period? But how then will we be amused by Darwin awards? A guy around where I live got really drunk and placed lit illegal fireworks in his mouth, and waited for it to go off, to impress a girl. It blew his jaw off and gave him extensive brain damage. It's not really funny, but it does show that survival instinct isn't really something to take for granted. Tias fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 19:21
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Tias posted:But how then will we be amused by Darwin awards? Was she impressed?
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Oct 26, 2015 19:23
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Well, somebody's jaw dropped.
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Oct 26, 2015 19:37
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Cythereal posted:Can we all agree that you just shouldn't gently caress with explosives you find, period? If you don't spend your weekends digging in the forest where a bunch of nazis got blown up, why even bother living in Eastern Europe?
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Oct 26, 2015 19:38
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Ensign Expendable posted:If you don't spend your weekends digging in the forest where a bunch of nazis got blown up, why even bother living in Eastern Europe? An older acquaintance of mine has a story like that. When he was still a small kid in postwar Germany, his mother found him playing with some small marbles, each of them having a hole bored through the middle. She asks him if he could get her some more of those, because she wanted to fancy up the curtains with them. He says sure enough, and gets her a whole handful of them. Later on his grandfather finds out he'd gathered those, and promptly gives him a thorough spanking, telling him to stay well away from wherever he'd gotten them from. The reason for that? He'd gotten all those marbles from these:  He'd happened upon some grenades in an old weapons stash and painstakingly managed to dismantle the knots on the cord holding them, without ever pulling it strongly enough to arm them. Or perhaps the grenades just didn't have primers put in. Either way, that could have gone pretty bad pretty quickly.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:12
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UXO is kinda out of mind until every now and then when they dig new fundaments, they find bombs. They might have destroyed houses and then some more bombs fell and went unnoticed into the debris or right into the ground. When they rebuilt it, they just put houses over it. Right now I live in a place that's been a dump for the debris of the bombings. There's just a little earth over it. When they break down houses in spots that were heavily bombed, they sometimes find really big stuff. Several hundred people living right on a 250kg bomb for some decades isn't so unusual. I posted it 2 times in this thread now I think, but a few years back, I woke up from what I thought was really loud thunder. The next morning you could read that one of these bombs went off and left a huge crater in a nursery. Then a few years later one went off in the danube, also not too far away.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:13
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Tias posted:But how then will we be amused by Darwin awards? I think he had brain damage well before that HEY GAL posted:those are both partisans. loving partisans man. I told you we should have just shot the whole village when we saw the first partisan leaning against a wall. What is a peasant doing with that kind of weapon? Also, are the partisans of WWII fame named after the weapon or is that just a curiosity?
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Oct 26, 2015 20:20
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ArchangeI posted:Also, are the partisans of WWII fame named after the weapon or is that just a curiosity?
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Oct 26, 2015 20:27
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Keldoclock posted:Well, somebody's jaw dropped. This is a good post.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:42
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bewbies posted:Does anyone want to speculate how many more civilians have been killed by war-related famine and disease than UXO in history? How about in just the 20th century? How about just the 21st century? I'm not sure about the 20th century generally, but the influenza pandemic of 1919 killed more people than World War 1 did - anywhere from 3% to 7% of the Earth's population. I suspect I got this figure off of Wikipedia, but lots of German civilians died of starvation during the first World War- 500,000 during, and an additional 100,000 after the armistice (when Britain continued the blockade until the Versailles treaty was signed.)
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Oct 26, 2015 21:54
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JaucheCharly posted:UXO is kinda out of mind until every now and then when they dig new fundaments, they find bombs. They might have destroyed houses and then some more bombs fell and went unnoticed into the debris or right into the ground. When they rebuilt it, they just put houses over it. Right now I live in a place that's been a dump for the debris of the bombings. There's just a little earth over it. I think I've posed about this before, but some German cities were double hosed because of their geology. Berlin, for example, has really spongy, soft ground that is sitting on top of a bed of clay that is ~10-20 meters down depending on where you are. One of the big things that traps bombs without detonating them is mud and other soft earth. I saw a special on UXO in Germany a few years back and they explained how the bombs would essentially "bounce" off the clay once slowed down by the soft earth and end up resting nose up. This was a double problem because the fuzes that were standard in the USAF had a secondary mode if the first didn't go off - a delay that was triggered by a vial of acetone breaking and dissolving a few disks of some early plastic. Unfortunately with the nose up the acetone didn't migrate in the right direction leaving some very unstable UXO. They had an interview with some guy who worked the Berlin bomb squad for a huge chunk of the 20th century (can't remember which side of the wall he was on pre-reunification). He specialized in taking those types of bombs apart in particular. Even had a neat demonstration of how they were put together.
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Oct 26, 2015 22:11
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Keldoclock posted:My condolences. my lower back, wrists, and ankles thank you for your concern
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Oct 26, 2015 23:27
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bewbies posted:Does anyone want to speculate how many more civilians have been killed by war-related famine and disease than UXO in history? How about in just the 20th century? How about just the 21st century? No idea about this on the global scale, but according to http://www.maginternational.org/the-problems/the-uxo-problem-in-laos-statistics/, Laos is the most heavily bombed country, per capita, in history, with over two million tons of ordnance dropped, most of it cluster munitions, and over 50000 people having died or been injured in of UXO accidents between 1964 and 2008. (The population grew from around 2.2M to 6M in the same timeframe.) So that's probably the upper limit of the airdropped UXO casualty rate seen anywhere, with about one third of the casualties dead and two thirds injured.
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Oct 26, 2015 23:51
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Cyrano4747 posted:Guns are a bitch to use on a rolling deck, especially on the kind of small vessels that you are doing coast guard or anti-piracy poo poo on. Doubly so in the age where a bolt action rifle or a pump shotgun were the state of the art. Well it's not like a pike is going to be any handier on a rolling deck. I'm sure it just institutional inertia in other navies. Also the whole cutlass thing is a myth. Possibly because they boarded with fixed bayonets, probably because the German press went hard on the whole 'Illegal British Sea-Pirates' thing. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Pointy things are actually a very good psychological deterrent and a pike can also be used as a physical barrier. A pike is a good psychological deterrent. A shotgun pointed at your face is a better one and makes 'keep of the boat' even more emphatic. If you insist on something pointy give them a rifle with a bayonet.
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