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Inspector Gesicht posted:What are the worst missables in games? The most powerful weapon in the original version of FF XII could only be found if you didn't open four specific chests. You are not told this at any point.
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Oct 27, 2015 02:18
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Not only, but it was exceptionally rare as a drop. Fractions of a percent.
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Oct 27, 2015 02:21
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Her Dryer posted:The most powerful weapon in the original version of FF XII could only be found if you didn't open four specific chests. You are not told this at any point. This actually. Like it's not like a really obtuse riddle or hidden note etc. there is literally no indication. Truly bizarre.
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Oct 27, 2015 02:26
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Her Dryer posted:The most powerful weapon in the original version of FF XII could only be found if you didn't open four specific chests. You are not told this at any point. They're not even specific, one of them is in a room full of chests and the forbidden one changes game to game. E: but I swear there was an alternate way to farm for it as like a 1/256 drop in the late endgame.
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Oct 27, 2015 02:28
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Ryoshi posted:They're not even specific, one of them is in a room full of chests and the forbidden one changes game to game. I think that's in IZJS, which has its own ridiculous missable which I don't remember the details of but I know it's an invisible bow in and invisible chest. 
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Oct 27, 2015 02:36
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Ryoshi posted:They're not even specific, one of them is in a room full of chests and the forbidden one changes game to game. There is but the place you farm it is in an post-game area and it is awkward to farm because of how you have to do it.
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Oct 27, 2015 02:36
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Honestly if it's a completely optional and not needed to complete the game, I think it's really cool to have really weird and obscure hidden things that 99% of people will never encounter in a normal playthrough.
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Oct 27, 2015 02:40
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Sleeveless posted:Honestly if it's a completely optional and not needed to complete the game, I think it's really cool to have really weird and obscure hidden things that 99% of people will never encounter in a normal playthrough. The problem is that we live in an age of gamefaqs and people who's first instinct is to dig through a game's code. small, cool and weird things become necessary for the obsessive dorks who play games. I say this as someone who farmed up every, at least I'm fairly sure I did, item in Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2.
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Oct 27, 2015 02:45
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Sleeveless posted:Honestly if it's a completely optional and not needed to complete the game, I think it's really cool to have really weird and obscure hidden things that 99% of people will never encounter in a normal playthrough. It's not the obscurity it's the "lol you opened a chest in one of the first areas of the game no super weapon for you". The Sunflower Sword is a better example where it is very deep in a chain of sidequests and takes a while to get but you aren't locked out of it because you opened a chest in the opening area of a Fainarau Fantaji game. It is also in XII if I did not make that clear. e: Punishing a player for opening an item chest with no warning is very dumb and not "teehee so obscure and fun"
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Oct 27, 2015 02:46
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It exists as a bonus for people who bought the strategy guide basically.
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Oct 27, 2015 02:56
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XII Is criminally underrated though and I am holding off on a new playthrough for the inevitable HD re-release! One thing I didn't like though were the guns. They never missed but they were all so weak or at least compared to the available weapons of other types.
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Oct 27, 2015 03:01
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EmmyOk posted:XII Is criminally underrated though and I am holding off on a new playthrough for the inevitable HD re-release! One thing I didn't like though were the guns. They never missed but they were all so weak or at least compared to the available weapons of other types. I played through XII again semi-recently, and it is honestly a pretty good game. I'd say that the only big problem is that gradual out-of-battle MP recovery, combined with the non-random encounter system, means that the best course of action for so much of the game is 'find somewhere safe and run around waiting for your MP to recharge before moving forward'. Also Vaan and Penelo, but they're very ignorable once you've got the whole party together.
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Oct 27, 2015 03:17
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EmmyOk posted:XII Is criminally underrated though and I am holding off on a new playthrough for the inevitable HD re-release! One thing I didn't like though were the guns. They never missed but they were all so weak or at least compared to the available weapons of other types. Did the international version ever get an official english release? Because if not that will probably happen eventually. Anyway I started recently replaying KOTOR2 because I never beat it and I'm tired of MGSV and what's really getting me down on that game already is how clunky the controls and menus tend to be. Of course it's old as balls and that's probably why.
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Oct 27, 2015 03:29
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Cleretic posted:I played through XII again semi-recently, and it is honestly a pretty good game. I'd say that the only big problem is that gradual out-of-battle MP recovery, combined with the non-random encounter system, means that the best course of action for so much of the game is 'find somewhere safe and run around waiting for your MP to recharge before moving forward'. It has been a while so honestly I don't remember the MP system but I will take your word for it! I didn't mind non-random battles it was refreshing to see what you would be fighting and not constantly having your exploring broken up with a shatter screen effect. For things dragging it down though the opening is a big one. Spending 2 hours loving around in the desert with the sunstone whereas it should have p much started with the palace robbery. XII is also responsible for the angriest moment perhaps in my entire life which sounds pathetic and autistic but that's only because it is. There is a chain system where the more enemies of the same type you kill in a row the better loot they start dropping until you start getting super rare and cool stuff. Normally there are many enemy types in an area so it is hard to get chains >10. However there is an area called The Sandsea where you only meet one enemy type and can make an enemy chain as long as 100 if you are a crafty kitty like me. At this point in the story there is a guest who fights with you but you can't control what he does. There is also a flame elemental in this area but it's a neutral creature who won't attack you if you leave him alone. This is good as the elemental can one shot every one of your characters if they aren't end to post game levels. For some bizarre reason the guest character decided to attack it and it wiped out half my party instantly. Sub-optimal! Fortunately I managed to run away for about five minutes and left the elemental in the dust. A few minutes later a small notification pops up 'Flame Elemental used firaga'. It had tracked me for down. Wiped me out. Hadn't been able to save in hours. For a few seconds I thought "It is ok Emmy you have contained the anger" and then I tore my PS2 out of the wall  e: RE international version: I'm not sure but I thought the PAL and international one were usually the same?
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Oct 27, 2015 03:36
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EmmyOk posted:It's not the obscurity it's the "lol you opened a chest in one of the first areas of the game no super weapon for you". The Sunflower Sword is a better example where it is very deep in a chain of sidequests and takes a while to get but you aren't locked out of it because you opened a chest in the opening area of a Fainarau Fantaji game. It is also in XII if I did not make that clear. Saying that The Sunflower takes "a while" to get is kind of an understatement. The giant orange box on that wiki page is all the bullshit you have to go through to get it, and amounts to hours upon hours of searching out rare monsters which most of the time won't even show up. You have to keep running in and out of specific areas until it actually shows up, then hope for the single-digit drop or steal rates to go in your favor. I got the Zodiac Spear because I generally check guides to see if there's anything that can be missed permanently before starting FF games, and there's no actual challenge to getting it once you know the gimmick. I never bothered with the Tournesol because even if you know exactly what to do, it will still take ages to actually acquire it because the developers felt the need to put an MMORPG-grade grindfest in a single player game for some reason. This person wrote an entire guide just on getting the dumb thing and it apparently took three days.
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Oct 27, 2015 03:41
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EmmyOk posted:e: RE international version: I'm not sure but I thought the PAL and international one were usually the same? It has not, I just looked it up. Square likes to do the thing where the game comes out in Japan. Then gets released outside of Japan with bonus stuff. Then re-released in Japan with the international stuff plus brand new stuff, I think it started with FF7 where the WEAPONS were added in to the international release but not the original Japanese release. Kingdom Hearts and the Final Mix editions of the game are probably the most notable cases but FFX also did it, so did XII with the zodiac job system. The HD version of FFX, IIRC, had the international version's content so I assume they'll do something similar to XII somewhere down the line. Maybe they'll even put it on PC this time.
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Oct 27, 2015 03:42
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Saying that The Sunflower takes "a while" to get is kind of an understatement. The giant orange box on that wiki page is all the bullshit you have to go through to get it, and amounts to hours upon hours of searching out rare monsters which most of the time won't even show up. You have to keep running in and out of specific areas until it actually shows up, then hope for the single-digit drop or steal rates to go in your favor. I got the Zodiac Spear because I generally check guides to see if there's anything that can be missed permanently before starting FF games, and there's no actual challenge to getting it once you know the gimmick. I never bothered with the Tournesol because even if you know exactly what to do, it will still take ages to actually acquire it because the developers felt the need to put an MMORPG-grade grindfest in a single player game for some reason. I am not saying that the Tournesol is easy to get but I am saying that if you want to have a hard item to get then it is a fairer example than how they lock out the Zodiac spear.
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Oct 27, 2015 03:46
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Since the chat here reminded me of it, I am playing FFX now since I never beat it, and I think the party's actual makeup goes very badly with the game's design, especially early on. Having a very freely shiftable party in combat is pretty cool, since you can immediately go 'oh poo poo aerial enemies, get me Wakka' or whatever, but a couple members of your party have very obvious and important niches. Yuna is your only healer, so she will always be in your team unless you pull someone out of their way to go into her part of the sphere grid. Similarly, Lulu is the dedicated Black Mage, making her the only person capable of reliably doing elemental damage unless, again, you drag someone into her part of the sphere grid. Your active party only has three slots, meaning that Yuna and Lulu will dominate it, especially very early on. You have one slot to reliably play around with, up to five different characters fighting over it. It's not like those party members are all that bad mechanically; Tidus has some nice free buffs going on, Auron's got access to nice debuffs, Kimahri's got a fun gimmick that can occasionally be really useful, Wakka's got innate strength over aerial enemies, and Rikku's one of the series' better thieves. But that's five people ultimately fighting over one slot, maybe two if they're lucky with the enemy selection. And of course that compounds with the sphere grid issue; the only way to really get Yuna and Lulu to stop being permanent fixtures is to get someone else to cover their niches, but since AP is doled out according to presence in the fight they're getting the lion's share of it.
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Oct 27, 2015 03:51
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Well you can switch Lulu and Yuna in and out like you suggested doing with Wakka. Kimahri is garbage. Auron, Rikku, Tidus with Yuna rolling as back up is the squad for late game.
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Oct 27, 2015 03:55
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With the way the Sphere Grid works, but halfway through the game it's pretty easy to give Yuna some of Lulu's spells, and between Yuna's superior magic stat and agility, Lulu immediately shrivels into uselessness.
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Oct 27, 2015 04:04
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I used everyone pretty equally (except for Kimahri because he's garbage). No one was really a permanent fixture in my party; the fact that they let you swap them out literally any time is a really powerful tool and you should be using and abusing it.
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Oct 27, 2015 04:05
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The problem with the Sphere Grid is that after a while particularly late game the only difference between characters is there overdrive and the fact Yuna can summon which is kind of lame.
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Oct 27, 2015 04:07
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A lot of FF games are like that, though; 7, 8, X-2, and 13, just to name some off the top of my head.
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Oct 27, 2015 04:09
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Jia posted:A lot of FF games are like that, though; 7, 8, X-2, and 13, just to name some off the top of my head. I have only play X, IX, and XII to the end. VII and VIII lost me halfway through a few times. I guess it could be possible with XII's license board?
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Oct 27, 2015 04:11
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Cleretic posted:And of course that compounds with the sphere grid issue; the only way to really get Yuna and Lulu to stop being permanent fixtures is to get someone else to cover their niches, but since AP is doled out according to presence in the fight they're getting the lion's share of it. Elemental Damage is kind of useless for the middle bits of the game unless you grind a lot because it takes ages to unlock the upgrades but enemies keep getting stronger, so it's actually faster to just use Lulu to unlock paths to the magic then swap Yuna over to her tree for a bit and get the best poo poo turning her into a healer and offensive monster. Tidus can get haste and double hit which makes him ridiculous, especially if you branch him out into auron's path and get all that strength. Meanwhile Auron is one of the best because he has innate armor penetration and if you put him on Tidus' tree there's your double hit. For pretty much every except the super ultra mega bosses, just having three characters hitting for 9999 twice a turn then getting to go again immediately after is great. Jia posted:A lot of FF games are like that, though; 7, 8, X-2, and 13, just to name some off the top of my head. Nuebot has a new favorite as of 04:14 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 04:12
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Nth Doctor posted:In Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy's text based game, if I recall correctly: if you don't buy a sandwich at the bar and feed it to a dog at the very beginning of the game, you will make the game unwinnable but only lose in the mid to late game stage. Geniasis posted:I think it's vendor trash in games that really irks me lately. Just give me the gold! Or I dunno, give me some flavor text of what I picked up (portrait of Lord Reginald Dickbutt) and then just tell me what I got in gold from it. Stop taking up my inventory! Sleeveless posted:Honestly if it's a completely optional and not needed to complete the game, I think it's really cool to have really weird and obscure hidden things that 99% of people will never encounter in a normal playthrough.
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Oct 27, 2015 05:44
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Tiggum posted:I find it pretty irritating in Skyrim how there's so much stuff lying around everywhere that's of no use or value, like clothes, crockery, etc. I guess it's supposed to make it seem more realistic, that you can see that all these people eat and change their clothes and so on, but it just ends up making looting unnecessarily tedious. You can't just grab everything because you'll almost instantly become overburdened by all this mundane junk. I find it actually more frustrating because they don't use the stuff. So it just sits there forever. Tables stocked with food? Guy sits down and pulls a loaf of bread out of his rear end in a top hat to eat. I get that it's hard, and probably pointless, to make characters have super detailed routines like that where they change into fresh clothes every day and collect and eat food. But at the same time it feels even more fake than an older game when you see everything laid out like people live their lives, but then the robot people walk around doing none of it. Like a bunch of aliens just swooped in one morning and replaced everyone, but never did the research on how to act human.
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Oct 27, 2015 05:50
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The Moon Monster posted:MGSV GMP is terrible. It feels super limiting and makes me not want to use all the cool stuff I've developed. Maybe until you realize that one cultivation of plants is like 5000-10000 gmp. Money in MGSV is pretty easy.
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Oct 27, 2015 06:38
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FF12 also had chests that could roll vastly different loot a lot of the time and of course the game is slanted to give the worst drop. One of them is hidden behind an enemy you're supposed to run from, you make it to this dungeon in a desert area and the wall comes to life and attacks you, the game says run but you can actually kill it which opens up another path into the dungeon and allows you to access some chests, one of those chests has a super powerful sword for that point in the game.
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Oct 27, 2015 06:42
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kazil posted:Maybe until you realize that one cultivation of plants is like 5000-10000 gmp. Money in MGSV is pretty easy. It is, but it's bullshit that it caps out at $5 million. So you can reach the $5mil cap easily, but then you have a limit on how many things you can research at once as well. The whole GMP thing in MGSV pissed me off.
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Oct 27, 2015 09:12
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Wild Arms had an annoying missable though admittedly nothing on the same level already described here. A one time only dungeon had an enemy called Necronomicon whose eponymous drop is rare such that it took me 50 minutes to get it on 3-4x emulator speed even with some running away from irrelevant battles. You can do without it obviously but some players might be disappointed at missing out on what is by far the best magic boosting accessory. Wild Arms 3 had an easily missable sidequest will makes the best exp farming battle available. It's also pretty fun; a sequence of increasingly difficult battles culminating in a aerial throwdown between your mechanical dragon and an alien mothership. The game has New Game+ features so if you want to play through again to see it you won't have to level up again.
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Oct 27, 2015 14:29
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Nuebot posted:Why were people still trying to live around the super mutant infested hellhole, exactly? "Well, they're killing dozens of us every day and the water is slowly killing us and there's still the occasional radioactive sandstorm. But you know, this corrugated steel shed feels just like home!" I guess there's a point where I should stop questioning the logic behind a video game, but sometimes it's hard. Don't stop, because when more and more of these questions get asked lazy developers will eventually have to deal with them. If video games want to be art they should withstand the sort of criticism and analysis other art media get.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:11
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FFV has the TwinTania boss that has a unique Bell that you can only steal from him in his second form about 5% of the time. I believe Japanese developers only want to troll 100--percenters.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:15
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exquisite tea posted:Bioware stories are actually pretty awesome at being almost perfectly paced and unfolding just enough of the plot to sustain forward momentum, unlike virtually every other RPG I play where Lord Infodump unloads 10 paragraphs of text about some boring crap and I lose interest after only a couple hours. I take it you've never played Morrowind where every character is a wiki who will happily waste hours of your life explaining the entire setting to you complete with hyperlinks to other infodumps, while never once acknowledging that you are supposed to be an actual person, they are supposed to be actual people, and some sort of conversation is supposed to be going on. Morrowind fanboys defend this.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:28
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Alteisen posted:FF12 also had chests that could roll vastly different loot a lot of the time and of course the game is slanted to give the worst drop. Thankfully, zodiac job system changed them to static drops.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:28
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RagnarokAngel posted:Thankfully, zodiac job system changed them to static drops. Unthankfully, the Zodiac Job system is Japan only. I'm grateful today that any game worth it's salt shows up on Steam with the Director's Cut either cheap or free.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:33
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Woolie Wool posted:I take it you've never played Morrowind where every character is a wiki who will happily waste hours of your life explaining the entire setting to you complete with hyperlinks to other infodumps, while never once acknowledging that you are supposed to be an actual person, they are supposed to be actual people, and some sort of conversation is supposed to be going on.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:35
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No, it's terrible, it somehow manages to be worse than the Boredom Pie persuasion minigame from Oblivion. If you want me to read giant infodumps, have the character hand me a book or have a BioWare-style codex and just have him mention Lord Vivec and then the game gives me a pop-up that a codex entry about Vivec has been unlocked to read whenever I want.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:39
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Actually it’s good.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:47
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Nuebot posted:Why were people still trying to live around the super mutant infested hellhole, exactly? "Well, they're killing dozens of us every day and the water is slowly killing us and there's still the occasional radioactive sandstorm. But you know, this corrugated steel shed feels just like home!" I guess there's a point where I should stop questioning the logic behind a video game, but sometimes it's hard. Where are they gonna go? "Alright guys, let's form a giant obvious convoy and walk in a random direction and hope it's better there, that way we not only have to lug around said dirty water, we'll have no protection when the next sandstorm/mutant group/slaver party rolls over us!" *sets off in direction of Point Lookout*
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Oct 27, 2015 16:06
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