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Digital Jesus posted:Basically, read my mind and make it up for me, goons! Their actual review of the camera is here if you are interested. Since then, Panasonic has added a flat picture profile, support for anamorphic lenses, and a couple other small things. TheGoatTrick fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 06:32
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Do adapters (FD -> m43) affect the apparent f/ of a lens? As in make it darker, I mean. If the FD lens is 28mm f/2.5, and I hook it to my E-M5 with an adapter, would it be equivalent to 14mm f/1.25, or will it be darker? I sense that I lack the technical language to properly describe this. 
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Oct 28, 2015 07:28
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Adapters that line up the sensor and back of the lens at the correct back focus distance relative to the sensor location should only impact the field of view relative to the different crop factors of both sensors. Effects of atmospheric dispersion and compression (relative to bokeh) will be relative to the same lens with the same back focus distance on a camera with the same pixel size. If your camera has a smaller pixel size, effects of atmospheric dispersion or compression will be more obvious at greater distances or a given depth of field. If your lens on an adapter can reach infinite focus, the resulting back focus distance of the lens is correct. The focal length and depth of field remain largely unchanged.
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Oct 28, 2015 07:49
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windex posted:Adapters that line up the sensor and back of the lens at the correct back focus distance relative to the sensor location should only impact the field of view relative to the different crop factors of both sensors. Short answer: no. There are some rare adapters with glass (FD to EF that preserve infinity focus), but they're uncommon and you wouldn't need them with a mirrorless body anyways. Sony as one with a pellicle mirror for their mirrorless cameras but it's really only if you want to use their A-mount AF glass on E-mount. There is another adapter that uses condenser lenses to make a lens "brighter" (forget who makes it, Metabones?), but anything any adapter adding extra optics is generally bad news bears for image quality. You're doing the maths the wrong way, the FD28mm f/2.5 would be 56mm f/2.5 equivalent on your E-M5.
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Oct 28, 2015 08:17
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You replied to the wrong post. My point was just to fill in the technical terms.  Also, the FOV changes, not the FL. It's a distinction many miss and it screws up DOF calculations among other things.
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Oct 28, 2015 08:21
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The best way to think about crop sensors is really that they just crop out a smaller portion of the image. A 35mm lens on a crop body really isn't going to act like a 50mm lens in terms of anything except field of view. DoF, the arrangement of background objects, the shape of things in the center (for things like portraits especially), none of them match up. If you are applying the crop factor to the lens, you also need to apply it to the aperture number--a 35mm f2 isn't going to act like a 50mm f2 in terms of blur and bokeh, it's going to be more like a 50mm f2.8.
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Oct 28, 2015 08:33
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it acts like a 50mm f2 in terms of incoming light as well which is a pro sometimes
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Oct 28, 2015 08:51
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MeruFM posted:it acts like a 50mm f2 in terms of incoming light as well which is a pro sometimes This is what I was curious about. Incoming light! I wanted to know if an adapter would affect that. Thank you all for continuously putting up with my questions this week - I've got some stuff in the mail and hopefully I can come back here soon all excited about learning/acquiring fun camera stuff for a change.  Alternatively, I might end up coming back here to curse you and sob into your shoulder about my lost money. 
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Oct 28, 2015 08:56
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Alehkhs posted:This is what I was curious about. Incoming light! I wanted to know if an adapter would affect that. Oh I didn't read your comment. I was just commenting in reply to the guy above me.  If you're looking to increase incoming light and are stepping down from a lens built for a larger sensor to a smaller sensor, you can get a speedbooster. http://www.metabones.com/products/details/MB_SPFD-m43-BM1 MeruFM fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 09:03
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zachol posted:The best way to think about crop sensors is really that they just crop out a smaller portion of the image. How is it that you correctly understand the focal length doesn't change and crop only influences FOV but incorrectly think the apreture is shifted? Jusr because more light is discarded by it not hitting a sensor does not mean the light that does is reduced. Pixel size is likely the culprit in any experienced loss of light between say FF and APS-C or m4/3rds and the bigger problem is your camera is probably lying to you about its relative sensitivity on the ISO scale. That's a different problem and tests like those run by dxomark show ISO100 sensitivity ranges all over the place (+/- 60) between vendors and individual cameras within a vendors lineup. But it has nothing to do with the lens or crop factor.
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Oct 28, 2015 09:06
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Sorry, I didn't mean to talk about light loss, only blur/bokeh. It wasn't directly in response to the question, a little off topic. Some people get excited about using a 50mm f1.4 on a crop sensor because they think it means they'll get a portrait picture like they would've gotten with a 75mm f1.4 or something, when they won't, at least in terms of the appearance and composition of background blur. They're just going to be using a smaller framing inside the 50mm f1.4, the same field of view as a 75mm but not anything else.
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Oct 28, 2015 09:11
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MeruFM posted:Oh I didn't read your comment. I was just commenting in reply to the guy above me. If I don't use a speedbooster (totally getting one, 'some day'), is the incoming light the same at least? Or is it decreased when you adapt a lens to a smaller sensor and a speedbooster brings it back up? zachol posted:Sorry, I didn't mean to talk about light loss, only blur/bokeh. It wasn't directly in response to the question, a little off topic. Yeah, in this case I'm not excited about the mm, but the f/. Alehkhs fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 09:16
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zachol posted:Sorry, I didn't mean to talk about light loss, only blur/bokeh. It wasn't directly in response to the question, a little off topic. Ahh okay. I did note that pixel size changed atmospheric dispersion and compression in my original reply. Also, I love using the Sigma 50mm on a crop for portraits because relative to actual 80-85mm lenses the DOF is razor thin and leads to more interesting photos. Espeically when doing portraiture in public spaces where blowing out the background is more important. Alehkhs posted:If I don't use a speedbooster (totally getting one, 'some day'), is the incoming light the same at least? Or is it decreased when you adapt a lens to a smaller sensor and a speedbooster brings it back up? Light metering wise it should be identical. edit: By the way, speed boosters are glass and in almost all cases, more glass will degrade your image quality. It's no different than the arguments for/against teleconverters or even lens protectors/UV filters (though those go on the front). Just buy faster lenses if you need more light. windex fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 09:18
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Basically, what we're trying to say is buy a full frame Sony a7 series camera and you'll never need to worry about crop factors again.
Jimlad fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 09:59
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metabone boosters are really good though, and don't come cheap for that reason. They are also deep behind the apeture so there shouldn't be refraction issues like with UV filters. More glass elements do not make a lens worse or else everyone would strive for 3 elements. Bad pieces that are low quality or don't combine properly make them worse.
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Oct 28, 2015 18:50
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MeruFM posted:metabone boosters are really good though, and don't come cheap for that reason. They are also deep behind the apeture so there shouldn't be refraction issues like with UV filters. The most effective argument in good vs bad I can make is to rephrase it as: required vs not. Circular polarizers and neutral density filters, along with color and IR or UV filters for very specific types of IR/UV/monochrome photography, are absolutely needed to accomplish the end result. Speedboosters aren't. And analog optical signal amplification in all forms, even exotic optical networking, is always lossy, even if not very.
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Oct 28, 2015 19:21
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Well I've done some more looking and I think the camera I'm going to go with is the Panasonic GX8 with the kit lens, and possibly get the 20mm f1.7 later. It's at the top of my budget, but it looks to tick all the boxes for me.
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Oct 28, 2015 22:29
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Digital Jesus posted:I seem to think about this every couple of months but I think I'm actually going to do it now... I have an X-T1 at the moment and absolutely adore the thing, BUT I want to shoot more video. I don't really want to/can't afford to own two camera systems so it pretty much looks like I'm bailing on Fuji I was going to jump in and suggest the GX8, if video means that much to you. It appears to be a very nice camera for stills as well, and even has IBIS, which before was always the big advantage Olympus had over Panasonic in my mind. (Although Panasonic's implementation of it seems to be limited to first-party lenses only?) And look, a Fellow Goon has just announced that they're getting one, too! Gotta be your best choice. Spedman posted:Well I've done some more looking and I think the camera I'm going to go with is the Panasonic GX8 with the kit lens, and possibly get the 20mm f1.7 later. It's at the top of my budget, but it looks to tick all the boxes for me. I don't own one, or any other m43 camera. I'm not offering advice from first-hand experience, but it's seems like a pretty solid choice based on your stated criteria. There's also the G7, which is a little smaller than the G8 and has a form factor more like the EM- and XT-Series cameras. It's broadly similar to the GX8 in terms of features (16MP instead of 20, but still does 4K video). On a related note, everyone says that Panasonic is better than Olympus for video, but is Olympus better than Sony E APS-C? The latest OM-D cameras have 72mbps All-I compression, while the a6000 only has 50mbps (with XVAC-S firmware update), but I see better image quality out of the Sony frame-for-frame when comparing... still frames.
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Oct 29, 2015 04:01
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New Fuji firmware is out (X-T1, X-T10, X-M1, X-E2, X-Pro1) supporting the 35mm f/2, 1.4x TC, and Windows 10. Doesn't seem like there's anything else noteworthy.
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Oct 29, 2015 19:13
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SMERSH Mouth posted:There's also the G7, which is a little smaller than the G8 and has a form factor more like the EM- and XT-Series cameras. It's broadly similar to the GX8 in terms of features (16MP instead of 20, but still does 4K video). I have this one. It's pretty impressive for video (being able to isolate a subject and have the camera auto-focus on it as it moves back and forth is pretty amazing) but sadly I haven't had much chance to mess with it yet. I was slightly disappointed in its lack of frame rate faster than 1080p/60. Also it has no weatherproofing and the 14-40 kit lens is decent but nothing to write home about. The camera's actually pretty good at higher ISOs; folks have posted that the G7 ISO level tests a bit brighter than other cameras, and the low-light noise has a sort of film-grain quality to it rather than the staticky look you see in other brands. Capability-wise, it's like 85% of the GH4 for 50% of the price (or 95% of the GX8 for 70% of the price, if you're leaning that way). You just have to decide if there are any missing features you can live without.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:54
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Mirage posted:I have this one. It's pretty impressive for video (being able to isolate a subject and have the camera auto-focus on it as it moves back and forth is pretty amazing) but sadly I haven't had much chance to mess with it yet. I was slightly disappointed in its lack of frame rate faster than 1080p/60. Also it has no weatherproofing and the 14-40 kit lens is decent but nothing to write home about. The camera's actually pretty good at higher ISOs; folks have posted that the G7 ISO level tests a bit brighter than other cameras, and the low-light noise has a sort of film-grain quality to it rather than the staticky look you see in other brands. Good to know, I was leaning towards the GX8 mainly as it is released this year rather than the GX7 which is a few years old now. If I get the GX7 I can probably afford to get some better glass too, which is usually a better option than a slightly better body.
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Oct 29, 2015 23:48
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Olympus outlet sale again. Use coupon code "BOO" for an additional 15% off to get: 12-40 2.8 pro: $544 40-150 2.8 pro: $1019 EM1: $815 EM10: $305 EPL5 kit: $272
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Oct 30, 2015 00:00
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wow makes me want to get the 40-150 finally What's usually the problem with reconditioned lens? Also why is the 12mm 1.8 so expensive
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Oct 30, 2015 00:39
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Before I dive in to my own research, does anyone have any comments on the (3?) sigma m4/3 prime lenses, the ones with the smooth barrels? I'm new to m4/3s and haven't got a massive budget but they look interesting for their price at least. And forgive my ignorance, but what fl on m4/3 would be comparable to the Fuji x100, so I can avoid doubling up as my old beaten up x100 is still going. Also I've had great fun with the Olympus bodycap fish eye for the money. I've never had anything properly wide before, never mind fish eye.
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Oct 30, 2015 01:59
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The x100 series has a 35mm equivalent focal length lens (23mm * 1.6) on an APS-C sensor. The crop factor for m43 is 2x, so the equivalent would be 17mm.
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Oct 30, 2015 02:08
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MeKeV posted:And forgive my ignorance, but what fl on m4/3 would be comparable to the Fuji x100, so I can avoid doubling up as my old beaten up x100 is still going. The X100 is a 23mm lens on a APSC sized sensor, so there is a crop factor of 1.5 or 1.6(?) - it's 35mm equivalent on full frame. M43 has a crop factor of 2, so if you bought a 17mm you'd be doubling up on your X100's focal length.
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Oct 30, 2015 02:09
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Jimlad posted:Basically, what we're trying to say is buy a full frame Sony a7 series camera and you'll never need to worry about crop factors again. Unless you're using it in crop mode for some reason.
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Oct 30, 2015 02:17
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MeruFM posted:What's usually the problem with reconditioned lens?
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Oct 30, 2015 04:01
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Yeah I've bought a couple reconditioned/refurb things from Olympus and never had a problem with anything.
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Oct 30, 2015 04:30
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MeKeV posted:Before I dive in to my own research, does anyone have any comments on the (3?) sigma m4/3 prime lenses, the ones with the smooth barrels? I've got the 19mm, albeit in Sony E-mount, so it's closer to a 28mm. The m43 version would be 38mm FoV, so something closer to a true 'normal' lens. It's very sharp towards the center of the image circle, and would only be more so on a 2x crop factor mount. That being said, it won't be appreciably wider than your x100's FoV, so might as well go for one of the longer FL lenses. The 30mm would be a 60mm equivalent, so good for general walk around, just a little on the tight end of things. The 60mm would be a moderate telephoto, probably really useful for portrait and nature stuff. Optically, the 30mm is supposed to be the overall best-performing lens of the 3, but I've been very tempted by the 60mm. With Oly's IBIS, I'd go hog wild on the 60; lack of stabilization is the main reason I'm not actually in possession of the E-mount version.
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Oct 30, 2015 04:38
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DJExile posted:Yeah I've bought a couple reconditioned/refurb things from Olympus and never had a problem with anything. The X-T1 is the only bit of camera gear I have ever not bought refurbished. Refurb gear may as well be brand new.
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Oct 30, 2015 12:12
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SMERSH Mouth posted:I've got the 19mm, albeit in Sony E-mount, so it's closer to a 28mm. The m43 version would be 38mm FoV, so something closer to a true 'normal' lens. It's very sharp towards the center of the image circle, and would only be more so on a 2x crop factor mount. That being said, it won't be appreciably wider than your x100's FoV, so might as well go for one of the longer FL lenses. The 30mm would be a 60mm equivalent, so good for general walk around, just a little on the tight end of things. The 60mm would be a moderate telephoto, probably really useful for portrait and nature stuff. Optically, the 30mm is supposed to be the overall best-performing lens of the 3, but I've been very tempted by the 60mm. With Oly's IBIS, I'd go hog wild on the 60; lack of stabilization is the main reason I'm not actually in possession of the E-mount version. I have the 30mm in m4/3 in the old, corrugated barrel version. I like it. Good sharp image (as SMERSH Mouth says, it gets great reviews) Personally, I don't use it a lot because 60mm is too tight for most of my outdoor travel photography, but it's great for portraiture.
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Oct 30, 2015 12:23
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Jimlad posted:There are people that bought into the NX system? Even if it is just an unsubstantiated rumour, Samsung would need something really special to avoid it becoming true.
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Oct 30, 2015 12:41
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SMERSH Mouth posted:I've got the 19mm, albeit in Sony E-mount, so it's closer to a 28mm. The m43 version would be 38mm FoV, so something closer to a true 'normal' lens. It's very sharp towards the center of the image circle, and would only be more so on a 2x crop factor mount. That being said, it won't be appreciably wider than your x100's FoV, so might as well go for one of the longer FL lenses. The 30mm would be a 60mm equivalent, so good for general walk around, just a little on the tight end of things. The 60mm would be a moderate telephoto, probably really useful for portrait and nature stuff. Optically, the 30mm is supposed to be the overall best-performing lens of the 3, but I've been very tempted by the 60mm. With Oly's IBIS, I'd go hog wild on the 60; lack of stabilization is the main reason I'm not actually in possession of the E-mount version. I've been looking for the 19mm e-mount for weeks, but it's sold out, back ordered, or out of stock everywhere.
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Oct 30, 2015 17:20
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I was, too. Then I just happened to notice one for sale in the used gear section of my local camera store. The new ones there are still on back order, and have been since may. (The one I picked up was the new Art version with the smooth barrel. I'd been hoping to get one of the DN's since I like the look of their knurled barrels more, but beggars can't be choosers.)
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Oct 31, 2015 01:15
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TheGoatTrick posted:Olympus outlet sale again. Use coupon code "BOO" for an additional 15% off to get: How often do they do extra 15% off? I'm not looking to buy now but later down the road.
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Oct 31, 2015 20:04
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Bizzaro Quik posted:How often do they do extra 15% off? I'm not looking to buy now but later down the road. There's usually some sort of deal once or twice a month, for the most part it's for their lower end lenses though.
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Nov 1, 2015 15:08
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I'd like a recommendation for a mirrorless for my father and stepmother. I'm familiar with and shoot DSLR myself but have a limited knowledge of what's around in the mirrorless world so thought I'd ask here to start. The idea is that the camera would be used heavily while travelling, something they do a ton of. They take many photos, some of which are actually decently framed and interesting but they use only the camera in my father's android tablet and the image quality is awful. After years I've finally convinced them to consider picking up a proper camera so they can enjoy that aspect of their trips more/have decent photos to look back on. My father was into film photography when he was younger and understands the basics. He would likely be using aperture or shutter priority most of the time. Criteria: Must have a decent variety of lenses available in-mount, they wouldn't be using adapter rings. They've mentioned wanting to get into some macro stuff as well. A smaller size would be really nice. Fairly simple/easy to use interface. Somewhere in the area of 18+ megapixel as they want to blow up these shots to put up in their house. Weatherproof/resistant would be ideal Decent JPEG quality Anything like wifi or GPS would be a bonus as well for my dad who loves poo poo like that but I would call that a pretty loose constraint. Budget would be basically anything up to around $1800 (for a kit). If there was a really nice promo right now or something for a kit that included a couple lenses that could be up to $2k or so. Thanks for reading, anything come to mind for you guys? I know Fuji has some offerings. Yes I saw the $700 fuji package for sale in the buy and sell thread. e: I should add that we're in Canada and they would likely much much rather buy new than used. VelociBacon fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 13:15
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Fujifilm X series are really good, I have an X-E2 myself and I couldnt be happier. Lens range is really good (if somewhat pricey) and there are also a number of Samyang lenses for the X Mount. Video really is mediocre though and unless you get a topline model continuous autofocus is also pretty dire. The control scheme is not the standard Canon/Nikon setup though there is no automatic aperture/shutter priority setting. It took me a while to get used to. You have the shutter on a top dial and aperture on the lens and in auto you can set a minimum shutter speed, max iso etc and then use the exposure dial to adjust exposure and it tries its best to give you the image you want. There is also a fully auto mode which still allows manual adjustment of settings and adapts around what you set.
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Nov 2, 2015 14:39
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VelociBacon posted:I'd like a recommendation for a mirrorless for my father and stepmother. I'm familiar with and shoot DSLR myself but have a limited knowledge of what's around in the mirrorless world so thought I'd ask here to start. The idea is that the camera would be used heavily while travelling, something they do a ton of. They take many photos, some of which are actually decently framed and interesting but they use only the camera in my father's android tablet and the image quality is awful. After years I've finally convinced them to consider picking up a proper camera so they can enjoy that aspect of their trips more/have decent photos to look back on. You saw my fuji package! Please god buy it so I can purchase more panasonic stuff.
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Nov 2, 2015 15:30
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