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bhsman posted:Trying to figure out what to cut from this Damia list (deck is all about stealing opponent's stuff or using their stuff against them); it's at about 70/100 right now before adding the lands, and between all the ramp spells and artifacts I'm shooting for at least 36 lands right now. Altogether this looks like a fun deck. Not incredible competitive, but plenty of fun. I'm sure you meant to put in Sol Ring, right? Right? Cut Mystic Speculation and Anticipate, they're really not too good. Also Collective Voyage isn't great unless you simply must run every group hug card ever. (And if this is the case, where's Howling Mine and Heartbeat of Spring?) Finally, it might be hard to find a copy, but maybe Mind Over Matter to help empty your hand so Damia can refill it?
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Oct 29, 2015 00:57
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Gynovore posted:Altogether this looks like a fun deck. Not incredible competitive, but plenty of fun. I'm sure you meant to put in Sol Ring, right? Right? Cut Mystic Speculation and Anticipate, they're really not too good. Also Collective Voyage isn't great unless you simply must run every group hug card ever. (And if this is the case, where's Howling Mine and Heartbeat of Spring?) Finally, it might be hard to find a copy, but maybe Mind Over Matter to help empty your hand so Damia can refill it? Our store actually uses a ban lists, which includes Mind over Matter and Sol Ring, so they aren't an option. Collective Voyage was just another "Oh wow this seems decent for ramp" and I don't hate the occasionally Group Hug effect, but it's a card I don't own so perhaps I can take it out for now. Good point about having a discard outlet for Damia, though.
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Oct 29, 2015 01:02
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bhsman posted:Trying to figure out what to cut from this Damia list (deck is all about stealing opponent's stuff or using their stuff against them); it's at about 70/100 right now before adding the lands, and between all the ramp spells and artifacts I'm shooting for at least 36 lands right now. I know this isn't helping to cut cards, but Damia without pack rat seems sub optimal.
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Oct 29, 2015 01:03
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bhsman posted:Our store actually uses a ban lists, which includes Mind over Matter and Sol Ring, so they aren't an option. What else does your store ban?
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Oct 29, 2015 01:05
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Gynovore posted:What else does your store ban? Yeah. I'm pretty  about a store banning MoM of all things.
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Oct 29, 2015 01:07
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Olothreutes posted:I know this isn't helping to cut cards, but Damia without pack rat seems sub optimal. In a more 'pure' Damia deck I'd definitely consider it, but I don't think it'd fit the theme of the deck as is. That said, while it doesn't help cut cards it's definitely another sign that I need a discard outlet if two people immediately brought it up. Gynovore posted:What else does your store ban? Have at. Toshimo posted:Yeah. I'm pretty Eh, it's pretty simple to set up insta-win combos with it and the people who run the store and attend the events aren't what I'd consider casual players.
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Oct 29, 2015 01:10
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Serra Ascendant? loving really? If you don't have a way to kill a 6/6 flying lifelinker in your deck, you shouldn't be playing. I mean. I agree with poo poo like Mind of Matter and maybe Deadeye Naviagator, but loving Ascendant? Edit: Tooth and Nail? What?
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Oct 29, 2015 01:13
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 That store is still stuck in 1999. Look at all dem rando Urza Block bans.
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Oct 29, 2015 01:15
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They seem pretty anti-combo, which I guess is OK. And I agree with banning Serra Ascendant... I mean, it's a 6/6 lifelink for W. Also Consecrated Sphinx deserves the ban. Mind Over Matter does help you to go infinite, but it doesn't do much by itself. I'm surprised Jitte and Big Jace aren't on the list.
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Oct 29, 2015 01:17
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AlternateNu posted:Serra Ascendant? loving really? If you don't have a way to kill a 6/6 flying lifelinker in your deck, you shouldn't be playing. I mean. I agree with poo poo like Mind of Matter and maybe Deadeye Naviagator, but loving Ascendant? Good thing I'm not playing a deck with White, right guys? Guys?!  I'm not here to defend their EDH ban list, just looking for ideas on what to add (if any) and what to cut. EDIT: Gynovore posted:They seem pretty anti-combo, which I guess is OK. And I agree with banning Serra Ascendant... I mean, it's a 6/6 lifelink for W. Also Consecrated Sphinx deserves the ban. Mind Over Matter does help you to go infinite, but it doesn't do much by itself. I would have to ask them about why specific cards are/aren't on the list, to be honest. They've been running the league for awhile. bhsman fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Oct 29, 2015 |
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Oct 29, 2015 01:17
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Gynovore posted:They seem pretty anti-combo, which I guess is OK. And I agree with banning Serra Ascendant... I mean, it's a 6/6 lifelink for W. Also Consecrated Sphinx deserves the ban. Mind Over Matter does help you to go infinite, but it doesn't do much by itself. Big Jace isn't as good in EDH as he is in other formats; pure card advantage matters less, and planeswalkers are harder to protect in multiplayer. Don't get me wrong, he's still really good, but he's just a value card at the end of the day. Jitte isn't crazy powerful either; again, multiplayer means more creatures to kill before board control can be established and a number of decks don't care about creatures. There's a trap of assuming that if something that was broken in Standard or banned in Modern, it must be that good in EDH, when it's probably the single most divergent constructed format and has a very different lens for what is good.
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Oct 29, 2015 01:50
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AlternateNu posted:Serra Ascendant? loving really? If you don't have a way to kill a 6/6 flying lifelinker in your deck, you shouldn't be playing. With EDH life totals it's a 6/6 flying lifelinker on turn 1, mind. It's a lot like Sol Ring in that dropping it on turn 1 gives its player a massive advantage and basically demands the opponent be in white with Swords or Path in-hand or suffer immensely. It's far, far, far from the most ridiculous item on that list.
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Oct 29, 2015 01:55
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So something occurred to me while working on the list, but we often have people come in and post lists and that's kind of the end of it, but what if someone were to go through and compile the lists in the OP? Perhaps not in this iteration of the thread but the next? Just a random thought.
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Oct 29, 2015 02:02
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Sway of the Stars is on the official banlist, so I'm not sure why you'd be surprised to see it here. Serra Ascendant is a non-issue at multiplayer tables because any decent deck is going to have a solution to it before they die and the person who played it is probably going to have zero political capital for the rest of the game. If anything, the most  things are Deadeye Navigator, Greater Good, Metalworker, Omniscience, Palinchron, Recurring Insight, Skull Clamp, and Tooth and Nail. Seriously. Recurring Insight. Can't even begin to take this seriously.Don't even get me started on Hermit Druid not being banned. Here's a PRO DAMIA TIP. Play some dumbass Hermit Druid combos in your Damia list. Otherwise, yeah, your list fails to be either a "Damia Deck" or a "Steal and Copy" deck outside of playing a bunch of the worst possible steal and copy cards with a commander that has zero synergy with your deck. Maybe play good cards, put some interaction in, and stop trying to be so drat cute. If your playgroup is as ~totes not casual~ as you claim, despite that banlist, you should be attempting to bring something more reaonable to the table and not lolbiovisionary.
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Oct 29, 2015 03:39
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Toshimo posted:Sway of the Stars is on the official banlist, so I'm not sure why you'd be surprised to see it here. Oh. EDIT: For anyone not interesting in swinging their dick around, I cut the list down. Thanks again. bhsman fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Oct 29, 2015 |
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Oct 29, 2015 03:47
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bhsman posted:Oh. As abrasive as Toshimo can be at times, he (she?) is right. A lot of EDH decks don't bring a lot of interaction or ways to win, there's a vague social contract that says you shouldn't go all out in the game because reasons and anyone that plays to win is the pariah. The reality is that this contract is poo poo and some people (Toshimo, myself to a lesser extent) are willing to go for the kill in earnest. Most of them move to French because politics aren't a factor there and thus the contract doesn't carry as much weight in that format. The point is that any advice you get from Toshimo will be razor edged with the goal of making your deck win as fast as possible and be as resilient as possible. Themes are of secondary concern, and anything that's in a deck to be cute will almost immediately be recommended for a cut. You can choose to ignore some or all of the advice, but it isn't dick waving, it's trying to win. That's really the only thing that everyone agrees is the object of the game so it's the only thing you can always build you deck around reliably. If you want to appease some number of folks at your store and allow for hilarious shenanigan ridden 4 hour games, go for it. Just don't expect that everyone will provide advice with that in mind, even if you state it as a goal. From the aspect of deck strength the hermit druid suggestion is correct. You have the colors necessary to run a bunch of those combos and given how strong they are I'm sure that your store banlist will see an update almost immediately if you win a few games with these things. That's probably part of Toshimo's angle here, pointing out a giant flaw in the store banlist while also giving you several really solid combos to run. For what it's worth, I think deadeye navigator is worth banning because it enables a ton of retarded poo poo that almost always ends the game in some fashion or another. You have green in the deck so you can generate all the mana in the world. Run Dominate so you can take things at instant speed. Run ways to recur dominate. Geth isn't ideal but he's recurring steal poo poo on a body that doesn't tap. Spend all the mana on him. Remember you can use his ability in response to eldrazi shuffle triggers. Telemin performance is a total gamble but can get you something neat. Bribery is fine, you should find a copy of desertion to run as well, and some sort of permission package because you have islands and a hand that's never empty. Counterspell, etc. Find a space for removal for the things that people play against you. Yawgmoth's will is insane and not banned and in your colors. There's more that you can do while still being able to steal all the things, but it's a start. Prophet of Kruphix, btw, lets you do insane things like tap out on your turn and still be able to flash in dragonlord silumgar to take something mid combat and provide a surprise deathtouch blocker in addition to the thing you just stole.
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Oct 29, 2015 04:44
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Olothreutes posted:As abrasive as Toshimo can be at times, he (she?) is right. A lot of EDH decks don't bring a lot of interaction or ways to win, there's a vague social contract that says you shouldn't go all out in the game because reasons and anyone that plays to win is the pariah. The reality is that this contract is poo poo and some people (Toshimo, myself to a lesser extent) are willing to go for the kill in earnest. Most of them move to French because politics aren't a factor there and thus the contract doesn't carry as much weight in that format. This is my biggest problem with commander. People for whatever reason just refuse to win the game. One of the people I play with (when I play) has EOT Teferi, Cyclonic Rifted with easily 40-some power in play and.. passed the turn. No attacks, because what if he needs to counter 90 mana worth of spells with his Patron Wizard, or something. At the same time when I run off planeswalker after planeswalker with Brago and win pretty quickly, I'm somehow the bad guy for ending the game instead of dragging it on for 40 more minutes. That said, I do, for lack of a better term, power my decks down when I'm playing with weaker players/decks. I'm not going to go off with Strionic Resonator against my friend's Beard Tribal deck or someone playing a pre-con.
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Oct 29, 2015 05:03
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No, I get all of that, Toshimo and I have argued about this for awhile; Toshimo being tilted about not being uber-competitive in EDH and dick-waving in the main Magic thread is why this thread was made in the first place. I suspect it won't be the last time he misses the point if he's still doing it now, especially once he realizes the deck is vaguely based around a philosophy Sheldon proposed for a deck (aka "judo"). I'm also aware that the list is underpowered or not as combo-centric as a Commander like Damia could be, that was the intent from the start. Stuff like Hermit Druid is (ironically) out because the deck is not necessarily meant to take the initiative. I totally forgot about Dominate as a non-Aura way to steal creatures, and had made a mental note to include Desertion but must've forgotten to add it at some point, so thank you for mentioning those (sincerely!). Prophet is a card I was considering adding, but I wanted to test the base list before adding more goodstuff cards. As an aside, I am serious when I say that you guys are overreacting to the ban list (in a way that is almost funny considering the people that go there), though admittedly you'd have to visit the store to see what I mean.
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Oct 29, 2015 05:07
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The name "Sheldon" is probably a trigger word for Toshimo, you should tag that poo poo I don't know what this Judo business is, but I'm going to bet it isn't about putting another deck on the floor and pinning it there. If you don't want to take the initiative to win with this deck then you especially need a better permission package so you can react when other decks do. Someone earlier in the thread posted a Ramirez de Pietro pirate themed deck that stole a lot of things, you could look there for ideas as well.
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Oct 29, 2015 05:14
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suicidesteve posted:This is my biggest problem with commander. People for whatever reason just refuse to win the game. One of the people I play with (when I play) has EOT Teferi, Cyclonic Rifted with easily 40-some power in play and.. passed the turn. No attacks, because what if he needs to counter 90 mana worth of spells with his Patron Wizard, or something. At the same time when I run off planeswalker after planeswalker with Brago and win pretty quickly, I'm somehow the bad guy for ending the game instead of dragging it on for 40 more minutes. That said, I do, for lack of a better term, power my decks down when I'm playing with weaker players/decks. I'm not going to go off with Strionic Resonator against my friend's Beard Tribal deck or someone playing a pre-con. Preach it, brother. Winning one game just means you have time to start another and people who drag poo poo out so they can wank off are self-absorbed assholes. There's nothing wrong with playing down to a playgroup's power level or making fun, casual decks. But, when people act like it's offensive to attempt to actually conclude a game or interact with their opponents, especially in a tournament/league scenario, that's the worst. Like, the dude upthread was like "here's my deck I want to play with these non-casual dudes at a league I'm paying money for that has prizes". It should come as no surprise that advice would be centered on a competitive level, because that's the expectation, given the nature of the scenario given. If someone asks for advice for a kitchen-table deck with a specific theme, that's what they get here. A competitive Damia "theft/copy" deck missing Skeletal Scrying, Treachery, Frantic Search, Diabolic Servitude, Dominate, and having almost no counters/removal while playing a bunch of goofy Join Forces/Will of the Council/Tempting Offer joke cards? Yeah, that's not gonna get such a great response. If you want to know how to build a deck, just go read my post history in this thread. I repeat myself endless times because people keep doing the same things wrong. Here's some highlights. Toshimo posted:Sylvan is A++ in literally every green deck. It's enough reason to splash green on its own. Toshimo posted:If you really want feedback on a Commander deck, try the following: Toshimo posted:Here's a list of ~super-staples~, or at least must-considers for each color under Toshimo posted:Your best options for monoblue counterspells (best to worst): Toshimo posted:More counters/removal Toshimo posted:Interaction Toshimo posted:How do you expect to win if you can't interact with your opponent's board? I don't expect everyone to play some sort of ruthless dog-eat-dog game. I do expect people to exercise a minimum of thought and basic problem-solving to answer the questions:
If people want to vomit up decklists without even paying lip service to all that, yeah, I might be hard pressed to give whatever they've pooped into deckstats seriously.
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Oct 29, 2015 05:27
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EDIT: Toshimo I'm well aware that you've given level-headed advice before and have even defended you when other people bitched about it when you were on the mark, but you often go overboard on poo poo like the ban list and then just assume stuff without a basis, even when you were honestly trying to help.Olothreutes posted:The name "Sheldon" is probably a trigger word for Toshimo, you should tag that poo poo The concept, according to people who have tried it, is to basically play a deck whose power level is determined by the other decks at the table, which is something I was interested in because the group of friends I play with can run the gamut from more casual players to players who are obviously more into combo. The deck isn't built to really deal with the latter, but I can at least enjoy myself no matter who I play against that night without having to build and invest in a second deck (well, at least not yet). It's pretty fun; I tried it with Ruhan about a year ago before I took it apart for tradestock. quote:If you don't want to take the initiative to win with this deck then you especially need a better permission package so you can react when other decks do. Yeah, which is why I was kicking myself for forgetting Desertion. Some of the copy spells effectively double as counters, though having a few hard counters would be nice. quote:Someone earlier in the thread posted a Ramirez de Pietro pirate themed deck that stole a lot of things, you could look there for ideas as well. That was a card I had considered, but ultimately wanted to include some of the crazier Simic cards like Master Biomancer (well, relative to a deck like this). I'll go digging for it, but this is also why I'd like the idea of compiling different Commander decks in a new OP. bhsman fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Oct 29, 2015 |
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Oct 29, 2015 05:30
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Olothreutes posted:As abrasive as Toshimo can be at times, he (she?) is right. A lot of EDH decks don't bring a lot of interaction or ways to win, there's a vague social contract that says you shouldn't go all out in the game because reasons and anyone that plays to win is the pariah. The reality is that this contract is poo poo and some people (Toshimo, myself to a lesser extent) are willing to go for the kill in earnest. Most of them move to French because politics aren't a factor there and thus the contract doesn't carry as much weight in that format. I had a game yesterday where we all laughed about the extreme contrast between three of us and the fourth. I'm equipping an Accorder's Shield to my Darksteel Juggernaut, another player is casting Relearn on Trickery Charm, the third player is using Land Tax to find the basics for his Island Fish Jasconius, and player four casts Scapeshift with nine lands and an Omnath, Locus of Rage on the battlefield. Fortunately I'm in a good playgroup that is able to laugh about that kind of thing, and we have more powerful decks to pull out when we feel competitive.
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Oct 29, 2015 05:58
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Chamale posted:the third player is using Land Tax to find the basics for his Island Fish Jasconius Why not just use a Flooded Strand to get it into play?
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Oct 29, 2015 06:06
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Olothreutes posted:Someone earlier in the thread posted a Ramirez de Pietro pirate themed deck that stole a lot of things, you could look there for ideas as well.  It got remembered
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Oct 29, 2015 06:10
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Dude I built a copy of that with barely a dozen cards changed since new sets have come out and it's one of my favorite decks. I playgroup hop a lot and it does just enough work to feel good without being too much stronger than whatever other people happen to be playing.
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Oct 29, 2015 06:24
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You can live without mystic speculation. Even though a Damia deck should be prepared to not have Damia in play, Mystic Speculation (and really all buyback cards) don't synergize with her at all.
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Oct 29, 2015 07:01
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ChrisBTY posted:You can live without mystic speculation. Even though a Damia deck should be prepared to not have Damia in play, Mystic Speculation (and really all buyback cards) don't synergize with her at all. Counterpoint, Forbid is amazing. Capsize too, but that's just because it's capsize.
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Oct 29, 2015 07:03
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Edit: Looking at my post from last night, that name-calling on my part was uncalled for, and for that I apologize, Toshimo.ChrisBTY posted:You can live without mystic speculation. Even though a Damia deck should be prepared to not have Damia in play, Mystic Speculation (and really all buyback cards) don't synergize with her at all. Speculation got in initially as a pet card that'll likely get cut in the long run, yeah. bhsman fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Oct 29, 2015 |
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Oct 29, 2015 13:58
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OssiansFolly posted:(Stuff about a Narset deck) I missed some earlier posts about this deck, but have you considered adding Scroll Rack to manipulate what's on top? e: or not die to something clever after Enter the Infinite?
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Oct 29, 2015 14:47
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Toshimo posted:Yeah. The gods are pretty bad in EDH. As far as I can remember, the only good ones are Erebos, Purphuros, Athreos, and Thassa, and even then Thassa and Erebos aren't all-stars and Athreos really only shines as a commander. Xenagos can be pretty scary sometimes; in decks that can repeatedly just answer board wipes with trampling fatties, I've seen him close out a lot of games.
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Oct 30, 2015 17:57
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Here's something different, a Lootcrate service that sends out random commander decks for 30 dollars a month. With the luck these have had on this site before, I'm sure it would go great with the bridge I purchased last week!
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Oct 30, 2015 19:13
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Deofuta posted:Here's something different, a Lootcrate service that sends out random commander decks for 30 dollars a month. With the luck these have had on this site before, I'm sure it would go great with the bridge I purchased last week! Wow, I saw a sliver deck on ebay yesterday, and was thinking how easy it would be to put these together, and mark the price up 5 bucks or something. If only there was a big enough market. So, if you take out the cost of sleeves, and the booster packs that leaves you with roughly $19 dollars worth of deck. Minus whatever their cut is.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:56
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My Uril deck has been doing pretty well what with all of the awesome totem armor, daybreak coronet, armadillo cloak and 3 enchantresses. The main issue I'm running up against is my friend's Sheoldred deck. Does anybody have recommendations on how to protect a creature light commander deck from sacrifice? also always looking for more auras to help push damage through. I just got around to adding Spectra Ward but anything with trample, flying, or protection is welcome so I can pull the couple of swords I have in there out and put them back in my equipment deck.
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Oct 30, 2015 22:51
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Just won a last-chance sealed trial at Lyon, got myself 2 byes and a sleep-in special with a Jeskai abomination I thought couldn't possibly work without crazy luck. Maybe I just got that luck. Pretty pleased with myself, I think I made some good plays , and this is probably my highest achievement in Magic so far. I conceded the final of a GPT a couple of years ago to a friend who was actually going to that GP, otherwise just the Game Day mat I won last week.
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Oct 30, 2015 23:15
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MMD3 posted:My Uril deck has been doing pretty well what with all of the awesome totem armor, daybreak coronet, armadillo cloak and 3 enchantresses. The main issue I'm running up against is my friend's Sheoldred deck. Fetches + Dryad Arbor is pretty decent, as would be Sigarda (who can carry Auras and equipment pretty well herself). There are also several auras that create tokens when cast, though I can't think of their names right now.
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Oct 30, 2015 23:17
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bhsman posted:Fetches + Dryad Arbor is pretty decent, as would be Sigarda (who can carry Auras and equipment pretty well herself). There are also several auras that create tokens when cast, though I can't think of their names right now. Knightly Valor and Raised by Wolves off the top of my head. Should look into it myself, I'm planning to do "Zurgo Stands Alone" at some point.
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Oct 30, 2015 23:27
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BizarroAzrael posted:Knightly Valor and Raised by Wolves off the top of my head. Should look into it myself, I'm planning to do "Zurgo Stands Alone" at some point. There's also Fists of Ironwood or w/e, which creates a Saproling token.
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Oct 30, 2015 23:46
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Assault suit prevents you from saccing the equipped dude and also lets you loan Uril out to punch other people to death, especially if you give him a "must attack every turn" aura as well. If you ever think something bad will happen, you can just not give him to another player and keep the no-sac effect. Or pollenbright wings. Olothreutes fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Oct 30, 2015 |
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Oct 30, 2015 23:51
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I almost finished up my Theros Pantheon deck.  (All I need now is a Maelstrom Wanderer. And I have Etherhorned Sorcerer as a stand-in for now.)Here it is! I realized I had a Wild Research sitting around, but I didn't realize it would be so loving good, especially when I have an active Hanna or Starfield out. (I generally don't like Gamble effects.) I swapped out all my wrath effects (but the Wrath of God for flavor reasons since it's the Heliod WoG ) and Ghostly Prison for more enchantment based removal since it is searchable. I cut the Kiora, but that isn't much of a shock. And I threw in Assemble the Legion because it provides another win condition if left unchecked and adds another source of red devotion which the deck kind of lacked before I threw it and Wild Research in.The last card I want to test out is No Mercy. It acts as a decent deterrent from being attacked and would add some much needed black devotion, but I don't know what I would cut. AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Nov 1, 2015 |
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Nov 1, 2015 02:40
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AlternateNu posted:I almost finished up my Theros Pantheon deck. This looks like a good deck. Too slow to be top-tier competitive, but still loads of fun to play. My only suggestion would be to swap Arrest for Suppression Bonds; it only costs one mana more, and can handle almost anything. And, I'm still not 100% sure that Prismatic Omen is needed. Maybe add more pillow-fort cards. Also that enchantress chick with shroud from Urza block, I forget the the name.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:54
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