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VikingofRock posted:The reasons Gore lost were (in descending order of severity): As far as Florida-specific causes go, I'd argue it was:
vvv We'll never know for sure (one county destroyed all its ballots prior to recounting, others refused to recount completely and others were stopped by the Supreme Court), but there are studies that show that if each county had done a complete recount using their usual standards (and not a centralized statewide standard), Gore would have won by a couple of hundred votes. However, all that really shows is how statistical ties operate. Wax Dynasty fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Oct 29, 2015 |
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Oct 29, 2015 20:32
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VikingofRock posted:Gore was a stiff, unlikable candidate who ran a very centrist campaign (see: Lieberman). This centrism alienated a lot of the left-leaning people, who were already upset by things like NAFTA and the gutting of welfare under Clinton. So those people went to Nader. But it's a fallacy to think that they would have voted for Gore if Nader wasn't there. Exit polls show that a plurality of Nader voters would have stayed home had he not run, and the rest of the Nader voters are split between Bush and Gore (You'll find a bunch of different numbers from different exit polls if you google around, including some that say that more Nader voters would have gone to Bush than to Gore. I find that hard to believe, but they were definitely not all going to Gore). If Gore had initially called for a complete recount of all of Florida, including those military ballots, wouldn't he have won by like ~400 votes? Instead he tried to be a dick and do selective recounts and not count certain military ballots.
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Oct 29, 2015 20:32
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seiferguy posted:"I would say, I could find just as many people who say his demeanor and his intellect will allow him to make Hillary look like who she is," said Carson. wait what edit: I get what he means, but what a weird way to say it.
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Oct 29, 2015 20:36
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Senf posted:wait what He means others are saying that about him.
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Oct 29, 2015 20:38
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Senf posted:wait what He's used third-person to refer to himself before and it's really weird.
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Oct 29, 2015 20:39
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NNick posted:I'm going to miss Jim Webb. Luckily for you, he didn't miss.
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Oct 29, 2015 20:40
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Sarah Palin's enduring legacy is going to be the idea of gotcha questions and I hate her even more for it
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Oct 29, 2015 20:41
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Mitt Romney posted:If Gore had initially called for a complete recount of all of Florida, including those military ballots, wouldn't he have won by like ~400 votes? Instead he tried to be a dick and do selective recounts and not count certain military ballots. I'm pretty sure this is right. The selective recount issue also came up in the supreme court case didn't it?
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Oct 29, 2015 20:41
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:that's fairly standard (and the house speaker almost never votes on legislation) Didn't the Speaker vote for the amendment to abolish slavery (according to the movie?)?
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Oct 29, 2015 20:42
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Well if we follow your ascending order then: No Gore running a bad campaign, no Nader. Nader ran because Gore's a bad campaigner? That's news to me.
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Oct 29, 2015 20:50
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Nintendo Kid posted:I'm pretty sure this is right. The selective recount issue also came up in the supreme court case didn't it? There was a media narrative that Gore's selective recount would have had him still lose while a full recount would have had him win, but it's just that: a media narrative. I read someplace that the media narrative was based on the idea that there'd be no way to count undervotes with butterfly ballots, whereas they totally could come up with a system to recount those. The fact of the matter is Gore probably won Florida no matter what but we'll never find out for sure.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:00
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Raenir Salazar posted:Didn't the Speaker vote for the amendment to abolish slavery (according to the movie?)?
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Oct 29, 2015 21:02
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Also running wild on Conservatwitter and Conservabook: A black man posted on Facebook about how "certain social movements" say he should be dead because a cop stopped him in Arizona when he was legally concealed carrying and he's still alive, thus their complaints are invalid and blue lives do in fact matter.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:04
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A Bag of Milk posted:Their race are no angels. Should have taken the half-celestial template at character creation.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:10
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Evil Fluffy posted:Nader ran because Gore's a bad campaigner? That's news to me. Nader ran because he was Nader. Some people gave a poo poo about Nader running because Gore distanced himself from Clinton and picked Droopy Dog as his Veep, among other reasons. Nader got 0.71% in 1996, for instance.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:12
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pathetic little tramp posted:The fact of the matter is Gore probably won Florida no matter what but we'll never find out for sure. FactCheck rates this statement as "partially untrue." FactCheck.org posted:According to a massive months-long study commissioned by eight news organizations in 2001, George W. Bush probably still would have won even if the U.S. Supreme Court had allowed a limited statewide recount to go forward as ordered by Florida’s highest court. http://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/the-florida-recount-of-2000/
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Oct 29, 2015 21:13
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The most hosed-up thing about Gore picking that shitbag Lieberman as his VP was that he was supposed to secure Florida by bringing in the Jewish vote. He managed that very well, but it wasn't enough.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:15
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Zeroisanumber posted:The most hosed-up thing about Gore picking that shitbag Lieberman as his VP was that he was supposed to secure Florida by bringing in the Jewish vote. He managed that very well, but it wasn't enough. Hey man, Florida Jews love them some Pat Buchanan what can you do.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:16
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The third-party narrative operating in 2000 was that Gore and Bush were indistinguishable from one another. Turns out there were a couple of key differences.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:18
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zoux posted:The third-party narrative operating in 2000 was that Gore and Bush were indistinguishable from one another. Turns out there were a couple of key differences. They're just like a douche and a turd sandwich!
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Oct 29, 2015 21:22
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Luigi Thirty posted:They're just like a douche and a turd sandwich! You have to admit that no one could force the hard right turn the country was going to take in the aftermath of 9/11. If not for that Pres. Bush would have probably been a one termer.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:25
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JT Jag posted:Schulyer Colfax was the Speaker at the time. He was a strong opponent of slavery and during his term as Speaker, he announced the passage of the Thirteenth Amendment in 1865. Though it is unusual for a Speaker to vote, Colfax, perhaps with an eye towards posterity, directed the clerk to call his name after the roll call had been taken. He then cast the final vote in favor of the amendment, to much applause from the supporters in the House. Did he have any relations to the Schuyler/Hamilton clan?
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Oct 29, 2015 21:25
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zoux posted:The third-party narrative operating in 2000 was that Gore and Bush were indistinguishable from one another. Turns out there were a couple of key differences. Well, what's left of it at least.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:28
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zoux posted:The third-party narrative operating in 2000 was that Gore and Bush were indistinguishable from one another. Turns out there were a couple of key differences. Jet Li's The One told me a Gore Presidency would be an authoritarian hell hole 
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Oct 29, 2015 21:31
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Luigi Thirty posted:Also running wild on Conservatwitter and Conservabook: A black man posted on Facebook about how "certain social movements" say he should be dead because a cop stopped him in Arizona when he was legally concealed carrying and he's still alive, thus their complaints are invalid and blue lives do in fact matter. So this is the racial equivalent of "We didn't have car seats, helmets and ate lead paint AND I MANAGED TO LIVE! WHAT NOW LOSERS!?"?
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Oct 29, 2015 21:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbCDQVLRlRc Watch Mitch Daniels get out of a speeding ticket. I'd almost forgotten about that little guy.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:36
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zoux posted:The third-party narrative operating in 2000 was that Gore and Bush were indistinguishable from one another. Turns out there were a couple of key differences. Pretty much. The Green Party campaign was essentially two-parted: Gore and Bush are exactly the same so who cares, and Gore is going to win anyway so we should register our support for progressivism and potentially get the Green Party access to the Presidential Election Campaign Fund had they received 5% of the vote. But it turned out that Bush was a disastrous corporatist warmonger, while Gore explored his lifelong love of environmentalism, the Green Party never even got close to that money, and Nader's fruitless ego campaign threatened liberal politics for another two election cycles while everyone begged him to not run - until thankfully he got too old to keep actively stabbing Democrats in the back.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:36
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Kaal posted:Pretty much. The Green Party campaign was essentially two-parted: Gore and Bush are exactly the same so who cares, and Gore is going to win anyway so we should register our support for progressivism and potentially get the Green Party access to the Presidential Election Campaign Fund had they received 5% of the vote. But it turned out that Bush was a disastrous corporatist warmonger, while Gore explored his lifelong love of environmentalism, the Green Party never even got close to that money, and Nader's fruitless ego campaign threatened liberal politics for another two election cycles while everyone begged him to not run - until thankfully he got too old to keep actively stabbing Democrats in the back. Yeah, whatever forgiveness people were willing to extend to Nader after the 2000 elections pretty much evaporated in 2004 when he started talking up running again, because obviously the Democrats and Republicans were still the same.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:39
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Even independent socialist hero Bernie Sanders hasn't spoken to Nader since 2000, at least according to Nader.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:40
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As a European following all of this, I am still utterly amazed (and, I admit it, horrified) that persons like Trump, Carson and Rubio are even serious candidates. Isn't there anyone better or at least less vile/repulsive who could run for the job? And did people really believe Jeb! would simply cruise through all of this because of his name? There are dishwashers with more charisma than Jeb!.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:42
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Jack's Flow posted:As a European following all of this, I am still utterly amazed (and, I admit it, horrified) that persons like Trump, Carson and Rubio are even serious candidates. Isn't there anyone better or at least less vile/repulsive who could run for the job? And did people really believe Jeb! would simply cruise through all of this because of his name? There are dishwashers with more charisma than Jeb!. Yes, and she is already running.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:46
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zoux posted:The third-party narrative operating in 2000 was that Gore and Bush were indistinguishable from one another. Turns out there were a couple of key differences. This is why Excitement is the new Jaded. god drat gen x
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Oct 29, 2015 21:47
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zoux posted:Yes, and she is already running. I wouldn't say running HP makes her much better 
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Oct 29, 2015 21:48
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Jack's Flow posted:There are dishwashers with more charisma than Jeb!. Keep in mind, this is the party that nominated noted charismatic candidates Mitt Romney, John McCain, Bob Dole, and George H.W. Bush.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:50
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Jack's Flow posted:As a European following all of this, I am still utterly amazed (and, I admit it, horrified) that persons like Trump, Carson and Rubio are even serious candidates. Isn't there anyone better or at least less vile/repulsive who could run for the job? And did people really believe Jeb! would simply cruise through all of this because of his name? There are dishwashers with more charisma than Jeb!. Let me put it in terms you understand: all of the Republican candidates are currently holding national support on par with the joke fringe parties you have in your parliament, probably. The best performing one has like, under 11% national all-population support at best at the moment.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:51
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Luigi Thirty posted:Also running wild on Conservatwitter and Conservabook: A black man posted on Facebook about how "certain social movements" say he should be dead because a cop stopped him in Arizona when he was legally concealed carrying and he's still alive, thus their complaints are invalid and blue lives do in fact matter. Despite claims that it's an irresponsible and dangerous "game," I tried playing Russian Roulette and despite all the fear mongering, I somehow survived. Maybe there's something going on that the mainstream media doesn't want you to know: That Russian Roulette is actually a safe and inexpensive form of entertainment.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:52
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Yeah Huckabee is kind of like that purple party that insists on getting sovereignty for like every independence movement in Europe.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:52
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I found George W. Bush to be the most charismatic out of Republican Candidates since Reagan, but that was only because of his bumbling idiocy.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:53
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Hollismason posted:I found George W. Bush to be the most charismatic out of Republican Candidates since Reagan, but that was only because of his bumbling idiocy. He had a sort of "aw shucks" quality going for him and the good fortune to run against two of the least charismatic Democrats ever. Also, his Vice President is literally a Lich, so anyone's going to look good standing next to that guy.
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Oct 29, 2015 21:58
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Lessail posted:Jet Li's The One told me a Gore Presidency would be an authoritarian hell hole And Family Guy taught us that Al Gore would have implemented true UHC and killed Bin Laden with his bare hands.
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Oct 29, 2015 22:00
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