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I vote we follow the NHS. All doctors are now government employees, none of this payed contractor poo poo. Doctors bitch and moan that they need to make 350k a year so they can pay for their office and staff. I say we solve the problem for them: they become employees of the government, government takes over all the other expenses, and doctors make 125k a year. Still vastly more than the population, but probably much more reasonable then they're making now. As an added bonus, doctors can now be incentivized to actually think about what tests/procedures/treatments they recommend and actually put the patient first instead of ordering a ton of redundant/unnecessary tests that costs the health system a ton of money and only serves to pad the doctors bottom line through fee for service.
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Oct 30, 2015 18:14
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Vintersorg posted:Hahaha, of course my friend links this. Why do I feel like everything Ezra Levant does is just a trick to make people look at his face?
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Oct 30, 2015 18:14
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Isentropy posted:Agreed, highly skilled professionals are the problem and we should all be busted down to the lowest common denominator. The general practicioner from Toronto working out in $insular_town for 110k or the permanently on-call 30-something EM grads who can't have families or their own lives are living fat off the hog and we need to put them in their place. is there an actual argument in here. are you saying you are against a 6% pay cut for doctors fees and think its a good idea that a fake professional union is suing the government under the charter of rights for cutting their fees
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Oct 30, 2015 18:21
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RBC posted:is there an actual argument in here. are you saying you are against a 6% pay cut for doctors fees and think its a good idea that a fake professional union is suing the government under the charter of rights for cutting their fees Ah, a deft maneuver around the point
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Oct 30, 2015 18:25
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https://www.change.org/p/rename-ste...tter_responsive Signed.
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Oct 30, 2015 18:27
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Isentropy posted:Agreed, highly skilled professionals are the problem and we should all be busted down to the lowest common denominator. The general practicioner from Toronto working out in $insular_town for 110k or the permanently on-call 30-something EM grads who can't have families or their own lives are living fat off the hog and we need to put them in their place. Are there actually doctors making a pathetic, dirt, $110k a year? The average Canadian doctor's salary is around $300K, that's a pretty big discrepancy.
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Oct 30, 2015 18:29
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Gorau posted:I vote we follow the NHS. All doctors are now government employees, none of this payed contractor poo poo. Doctors bitch and moan that they need to make 350k a year so they can pay for their office and staff. I say we solve the problem for them: they become employees of the government, government takes over all the other expenses, and doctors make 125k a year. Still vastly more than the population, but probably much more reasonable then they're making now. As an added bonus, doctors can now be incentivized to actually think about what tests/procedures/treatments they recommend and actually put the patient first instead of ordering a ton of redundant/unnecessary tests that costs the health system a ton of money and only serves to pad the doctors bottom line through fee for service. Haha yeah let me do a minimum of 10 years of tough post secondary so I can make 125k a year working my rear end off because apparently I'm retarded. Isentropy posted:better them than the "administrators" and "managers" and various political mucky muck jobs that seem to get these sorts of salaries instead. This is the problem with our health care budget right now, y'all are hosed in the head if you think it's the doctors getting paid too much that's the issue. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/sohail-gandhi/ontario-needs-doctors-and-nurses_b_8291598.html quote:As I have come to appreciate, there has been an explosion in bureaucracy over the past 12 years in Ontario Health Care. Most of it has been because the government has set up various "arms length" agencies such as the LHIN's, eHealth, Health Quality Ontario (HQO), CCAC and so on, rather than simply accept responsibility for these tasks under the MOH. From a politicians point of view, this gave them the ability to defer criticism for any decisions by saying such and such agency is "independent." For the most part, for a Liberal politician, this worked -- they did win four elections in a row. But it certainly hasn't helped the patients any. RBC posted:is there an actual argument in here. are you saying you are against a 6% pay cut for doctors fees and think its a good idea that a fake professional union is suing the government under the charter of rights for cutting their fees Yes man, I'm against the government dictating a 6% pay cut to doctors (who can't strike) where they have no recourse to even an arbitration. Trees and Squids posted:Are there actually doctors making a pathetic, dirt, $110k a year? The average Canadian doctor's salary is around $300K, that's a pretty big discrepancy. You know that's before they pay their secretary, support staff, office space, office equipment, education debts, ongoing education costs and all other expenses right?
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Oct 30, 2015 18:32
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Ikantski posted:Haha yeah let me do a minimum of 10 years of tough post secondary so I can make 125k a year working my rear end off because apparently I'm retarded. My point was that they 125k would be a salary, they wouldn't be responsible for any other expenses. It may be a tad low, but its probably close to what doctors take home now anyway.
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Oct 30, 2015 18:35
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Ikantski posted:Haha yeah let me do a minimum of 10 years of tough post secondary so I can make 125k a year working my rear end off because apparently I'm retarded. The acceptance rate for med school is like 6%. There's no shortage of people who want to "endure" ten years of school for a guarantee of a large income and untouchable job security. And professionals don't have the right to strike. That's part of the deal for their high pay. Just like management isn't part of a union. It's retarded to be offended when privileged professionals get a small pay cut.
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Oct 30, 2015 18:41
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Kafka Esq. posted:Unions are good, guilds are bad. People forget that Saskatchewan had to basically hire scab doctors when they first implemented their public healthcare program because the province's doctors refused to work under a socialized healthcare plan.
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Oct 30, 2015 18:53
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Gorau posted:My point was that they 125k would be a salary, they wouldn't be responsible for any other expenses. It may be a tad low, but its probably close to what doctors take home now anyway. A tad low? I can make 90k as an OPP officer with no post secondary after 3 years on the job or 95k as a school teacher with a bachelor degree in lesbian basket weaving and 2 year B.Ed and I'm only working 8 hours a day, 9 months a year. RBC posted:The acceptance rate for med school is like 6%. There's no shortage of people who want to "endure" ten years of school for a guarantee of a large income and untouchable job security. I think it's closer to 15% but yeah, part of the allure is the high pay. You're right though, we should open up the system. Let in way more doctors so capitalism can sort it out. To accomplish that, make the med schools for profit enterprises, there's no reason we should be subsidizing these future money havers. If there is such a demand for it, more schools should open to accept the volume. Then we can also stop subsidizing health care because there'll be a guy on every street corner qualified to take out your appendix. Capitalism 
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Oct 30, 2015 18:57
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Ikantski posted:Haha yeah let me do a minimum of 10 years of tough post secondary so I can make 125k a year working my rear end off because apparently I'm retarded. Honestly I though this was the new normal? Who gets a good job these days with just an undergrad? I'm pretty sure you'd find plenty of applicants in this scenario.
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Oct 30, 2015 18:59
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Cultural Imperial posted:Wow Calgary now has uber? And Vancouver just voted to keep banning it? Calgary "bans" it too, but it's still here. Apparently the drivers risk being fined by Bylaw Services.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:00
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Nocturtle posted:Honestly I though this was the new normal? Who gets a good job these days with just an undergrad? I'm pretty sure you'd find plenty of applicants in this scenario. Learn SAP.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:03
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A better argument than weird homophobia and robotically trying to calculate the education-to-salary ratio of various careers without regard to how competitive they are, or their social value, is that we probably shouldn't be supporting government actions that encourage a race to the bottom. Plus the way things seem to work in healthcare is that poo poo rolls downhill and the laying off of those nurses is awful, especially since they'll just probably end up contracting some PSWs who are paid less to replace them. That's not a practice we should encourage, ever. Dreylad fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Oct 30, 2015 |
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Oct 30, 2015 19:03
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Ikantski posted:A tad low? I can make 90k as an OPP officer with no post secondary after 3 years on the job or 95k as a school teacher with a bachelor degree in lesbian basket weaving and 2 year B.Ed and I'm only working 8 hours a day, 9 months a year. To be fair, Teaching is a teachable bachelor 3-4 years and a BEd 2 year. On the same vein, the doctors shouldn't run their own College whereby they get slaps on the wrist for basically sexual misconduct and whatnot.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:06
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RBC posted:is there an actual argument in here. are you saying you are against a 6% pay cut for doctors fees and think its a good idea that a fake professional union is suing the government under the charter of rights for cutting their fees yeah I think it's bullshit that paid professionals are being told that austerity has to fall on them when most of the increase in healthcare costs is likely due to the rapid increase in the size of administration, and the government has to have a better reason to take away the charter rights to collective bargaining other than "sorry we need to save money that we can spend on subways to nowhere or whatever political pet project holds the day". Nocturtle posted:Honestly I though this was the new normal? Who gets a good job these days with just an undergrad? I'm pretty sure you'd find plenty of applicants in this scenario. In my experience, engineers and certain types of buisness grads. But these are undergrads who did co-ops... even with those degrees you can't get work without co-ops.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:07
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RBC posted:is there an actual argument in here. are you saying you are against a 6% pay cut for doctors fees and think its a good idea that a fake professional union is suing the government under the charter of rights for cutting their fees Is there an actual argument anywhere in your posting? It's a bunch of poo poo as far as the eye can see.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:14
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Next election I will vote for whatever party includes shooting ezra levant into the sun as a campaign promise
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Oct 30, 2015 19:15
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Ikantski posted:A tad low? I can make 90k as an OPP officer with no post secondary after 3 years on the job or 95k as a school teacher with a bachelor degree in lesbian basket weaving and 2 year B.Ed and I'm only working 8 hours a day, 9 months a year. The system we have now is already capitalist medicine. It's just the government paying entrepreneurs who happen to have guaranteed wages and jobs.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:15
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Isentropy posted:yeah I think it's bullshit that paid professionals are being told that austerity has to fall on them when most of the increase in healthcare costs is likely due to the rapid increase in the size of administration, and the government has to have a better reason to take away the charter rights to collective bargaining other than "sorry we need to save money that we can spend on subways to nowhere or whatever political pet project holds the day". professional associations like the OMA don't have the right to collectively bargain. They're self employed physicians. Doctors are not working class.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:19
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RBC posted:professional associations like the OMA don't have the right to collectively bargain. They're self employed physicians. Doctors are not working class. What the hell does self employed or professional associations have to do with collective bargaining? You realize there are other professional associations in Canada like APEGA right?
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Oct 30, 2015 19:22
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BallsFalls posted:Next election I will vote for whatever party includes shooting ezra levant into the sun as a campaign promise Me too.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:24
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IIRC the "Average" doctor pay in Canada of ~300K doesn't represent a big chunk of doctors. It's all over the map and highly regional. That 300k is getting dragged up by cardiac surgeons making half a million and dragged down by GPs working in rural La Place Du Buttfuck, Quebec (I think I read highest average is Alberta and the lowest is PEI, and we're talking like a difference of a $100K. It's big). So yeah, I could see a doctor servicing a rural area away from major cities making like 100K if there ain't much to bill.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:25
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BallsFalls posted:Next election I will vote for whatever party includes shooting ezra levant into the sun as a campaign promise Can we include Margaret Wente? I don't think I can take another column about "Oh those youths today just don't know how good they have it".
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Oct 30, 2015 19:27
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Can we include Margaret Wente? I don't think I can take another column about "Oh those youths today just don't know how good they have it". Yes please.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:28
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Baudin posted:What the hell does self employed or professional associations have to do with collective bargaining? You realize there are other professional associations in Canada like APEGA right? The employer-employee relationship is the most basic thing required for the right to collectively bargain.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:28
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RBC posted:The employer-employee relationship is the most basic thing required for the right to collectively bargain. With the state?
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Oct 30, 2015 19:30
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Baudin posted:With the state? Why should I keep answering your stupid loving questions?
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Oct 30, 2015 19:30
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RBC posted:Why should I keep answering your stupid loving questions? Because you keep posting dumb loving "points" that are meandering and hard to decipher sometimes. e: your "is there a point here" is my favorite example on this page.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:32
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 accountability quote:On November 4, the Premier will travel to China on a trade mission, where she will be joined by several Ontario business delegations. From November 5 to 14, Premier Wynne will travel to Nanjing, Shanghai, Beijing and Hong Kong quote:The Toronto Stock Exchange has conditionally approved the shares. Hydro One is expected to start trading on the Toronto Stock Exchange on Nov. 5, 2015.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:32
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Isentropy posted:Agreed, highly skilled professionals are the problem and we should all be busted down to the lowest common denominator. The general practicioner from Toronto working out in $insular_town for 110k or the permanently on-call 30-something EM grads who can't have families or their own lives are living fat off the hog and we need to put them in their place. I propose we swap the salaries of Doctors and CEO.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:37
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quote:Ryan Cleary says fears of Liberal juggernaut 'kept him awake' lmao
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Oct 30, 2015 21:08
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Canada needs holographic slave doctors like on Star Trek Voyager. We should be subsidizing our tech sector to speed this along.
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Oct 30, 2015 21:19
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Yeah, like I'd trust anything produced by the Canadian "tech sector" with my life. At best I'd trust them to be able to remember when my appointment is, assuming it's a routine checkup and not something important.
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Oct 30, 2015 21:26
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Would that also count as supporting opera?
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Oct 30, 2015 21:26
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YeOldeButchere posted:Yeah, like I'd trust anything produced by the Canadian "tech sector" with my life. At best I'd trust them to be able to remember when my appointment is, assuming it's a routine checkup and not something important. That's the sort of attitude that keeps our holographic slave doctors from becoming a reality.
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Oct 30, 2015 21:43
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MBAs are ruining the planet and the healthcare industry is no exception. Administrative bloat is not just an issue in healthcare, it's an issue in tons of industries (academia  ). imo we should expand the number of people allowed into dental and medical schools and severely restrict the number of people allowed into business schools.
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Oct 30, 2015 22:20
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YeOldeButchere posted:Yeah, like I'd trust anything produced by the Canadian "tech sector" with my life. At best I'd trust them to be able to remember when my appointment is, assuming it's a routine checkup and not something important. I'm sure they'd get the prostate exam right.
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Oct 30, 2015 22:22
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L M A O http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...-canadian-teams quote:Liberal tax hike on high-income earners could affect star athletes signing with Canadian teams "Wait, poo poo, you mean everyone hates the rich and wants them to pay more taxes? gently caress, gently caress, how do we sell opposition to this? I know! WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE POOR ATHLETES  "
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Oct 30, 2015 22:30
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