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Soricidus posted:
Yeah, I've met people who see working as nothing but a means to earn 'fun tickets' (money), but they were dour as gently caress. If something I enjoy doing is self subsidising, then great.
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Oct 31, 2015 21:51
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if you are paid by someone else to do something, it's because someone is extracting more from your labor that they are paying you smash capitalism be self-employed
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Oct 31, 2015 21:53
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frankly I'm not surprised to learn that bsd hates his job and is miserable
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Oct 31, 2015 21:57
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Luigi Thirty posted:if you are paid by someone else to do something, it's because someone is extracting more from your labor that they are paying you i don't have to produce any value at all, my employer just steals money from honest hardworking folks to line my pockets
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Oct 31, 2015 22:22
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MALE SHOEGAZE posted:frankly I'm not surprised to learn that bsd hates his job and is miserable it's just because he won't dehumanize and face to Mach once he sees the light...
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Oct 31, 2015 23:17
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:this is like saying it would be great to be a porn star so you can be paid to have sex all day parts of what you're saying is obvious poo poo to everyone (it would be better if you didn't haven't to work) but in general I think you're missing the point. not everyone is the same don't forget and some people really enjoy the day to day pleasantries and "what did you do on the weekend" and so a mildly satisfying job with satisfactory pay check is quite important compared to working their rear end off at something they hate for more money to free themselves: don't apply your ahitty worldview to everyone else some people would still go to work even if they had no financial reason to, but I bet you don't get this. I wouldn't personally but I get it that others do
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Nov 1, 2015 00:58
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echinopsis posted:some people would still go to work even if they had no financial reason to, but I bet you don't get this. a lot of people who retire do this after a while i don't think it's habit, just that people generally want to be productive. more than likely most people don't find jobs they enjoy, think mostly about the income because they have to or because they want to. and sometimes you're just stuck at a job you start hating because of personal responsibilities. this is all obvious poo poo. i'm just saying in all probability a good portion of people in yospos do have the luxury of looking for something more enjoyable and fulfilling.
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Nov 1, 2015 01:21
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if i had so much money that i didn't have to work i'd probably buy a lot of drugs and then die from doing all the drugs
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Nov 1, 2015 01:22
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no you see life is at its core a prison and just like real prison the quality of your cell and the people you're incarcerated with ultimately make no difference
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Nov 1, 2015 01:29
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the imprisonment operator has closure over all entities in the group of items in life. work is a prison. programming is a prison. programming work -- a prison. this thread is a prison. you can't escape it.
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Nov 1, 2015 01:31
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echinopsis posted:some people would still go to work even if they had no financial reason to, but I bet you don't get this. I wouldn't personally but I get it that others do I only go for health insurance. I barely have to be in the office, an afternoon a week. Every morning wake up, check mail, go for a hour exercise session, cleanup, read more mail, chauffeur some people about to a music store and chill for the afternoon. I used to have client projects but they've dried up and no one wants to support anything anymore, cannot even work for internal projects, officially I'm getting paid to watch a dumb rear end Drupal site not getting fixed by I believe 21 developers somewhere in some state beginning with an M. My pet project is trying to retarget Chromium's devtools HTTP & web socket server onto a message loop primarly servicing RSSL. It is one of the impressively messed up pieces of Chromium though. I got the Chromium test server working last month and the core devtools version this month but so many hoops to jump through to get web sockets up. I'm being a super terrible developer by only copying small pieces of Chromium code, swapping out everything possible with standard C++11.
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Nov 1, 2015 02:02
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echinopsis posted:some people would still go to work even if they had no financial reason to, but I bet you don't get this. I wouldn't personally but I get it that others do i once spent several months without a job just for fun. i could afford it so i just decided to take an extended stay-cation and enjoy myself. my pattern of daily activities was actually quite similar to my day job. i spent a lot of time coding. i spent a lot of time reading about cool new stuff in the industry. it was genuinely fun and i loved it doing extremely similar tasks for someone else is like pulling teeth. someone else chooses my priorities. someone else determines the requirements. someone else tells me where i should show up and what time. and that sucks. it's those qualities that make a set of tasks into a "job."
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Nov 1, 2015 03:08
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my dad's wife made a lot more money at her old job in finance but quit after a few years and now is literally a much happier person working poverty wages as a grant writer for charities and homeless shelters. basically what im saying is nbsd has a brain problem
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Nov 1, 2015 03:09
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MALE SHOEGAZE posted:frankly I'm not surprised to learn that bsd hates his job and is miserable it's not that i hate my job in particular, it's that having a job, any job, is terrible having a job redefines what it is to be human. it crams a person into a box. (sometimes literally.) it makes you "less than" the people who give you money, forever
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Nov 1, 2015 03:11
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what if you work at a worker owned cooperative
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Nov 1, 2015 03:12
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i guess i get paid for a not-job then because i practically pick my own hours and have lots of choice over what i actually work on.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:13
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fart simpson posted:my dad's wife made a lot more money at her old job in finance but quit after a few years and now is literally a much happier person working poverty wages as a grant writer for charities and homeless shelters. basically what im saying is nbsd has a brain problem translation: she doesn't actually have to work, and does a joke job as a volunteer effort
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Nov 1, 2015 03:13
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fart simpson posted:what if you work at a worker owned cooperative see above, re: self-employment
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Nov 1, 2015 03:14
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Jabor posted:i guess i get paid for a not-job then because i practically pick my own hours and have lots of choice over what i actually work on. "practically," i.e. not literally "lots of choice" (among the things that will achieve another man's goals)
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Nov 1, 2015 03:14
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:"practically," i.e. not literally Notorious b.s.d. posted:someone else chooses my priorities. someone else determines the requirements. someone else tells me where i should show up and what time. and that sucks. it's those qualities that make a set of tasks into a "job." are you backpedalling from this then? because what i'm saying is that maybe .5/3 of those things are true for me.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:16
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Jabor posted:are you backpedalling from this then? because what i'm saying is that maybe .5/3 of those things are true for me. that's more than 0, isn't it
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Nov 1, 2015 03:16
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:that's more than 0, isn't it so anything with more than 0 of those counts as a "job"?
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Nov 1, 2015 03:17
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and i bet that all three actually do apply, you just want to pretend they don't. if you wanted to disappear for three months, would you have to ask permission? what happens if you don't show up to an "all-hands" meeting? or refuse to participate in your annual performance eval?
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Nov 1, 2015 03:18
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Jabor posted:so anything with more than 0 of those counts as a "job"? when you do things for money to further someone else's goals instead of your own, yeah, that's a job also to be clear it's not like someone is micromanaging me or demanding i show up when a whistle blows or something. just, there is stuff i have to do, and be accountable for, and i do this in order to get paid. and it sucks
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Nov 1, 2015 03:18
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:when you do things for money to further someone else's goals instead of your own, yeah, that's a job that's not the question I asked.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:19
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Jabor posted:that's not the question I asked. i gave a list of things that chafe me about the actual jobs i have had. i recognize that other states of employment could exist, and they are probably all objectionable in similar ways, despite greater or lesser freedom within narrow parameters i notice you didn't answer my questions, either, despite insisting you have "maybe" 0.5 out of 3 problems at work
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Nov 1, 2015 03:20
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:translation: she doesn't actually have to work, and does a joke job as a volunteer effort that's sort of offensive actually. she's not volunteering. she works harder than i do and has to deal with crappy bosses and annoying coworkers and all that. she just feels better about the nature of her work more directly helping people in need which is why she likes it better.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:21
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fart simpson posted:that's sort of offensive actually. she's not volunteering. she works harder than i do and has to deal with crappy bosses and annoying coworkers and all that. she just feels better about the nature of her work more directly helping people in need which is why she likes it better. she's married and she quit a high-paying job in order to do something that has high ethical value but almost no pay surely you can see why i assume she does not need the money
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Nov 1, 2015 03:22
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they do actually need the money. my dad doesn't earn enough on his own to pay all the bills. if she quit, long term they'd probably have to sell the house and cut back significantly on their lifestyle. they're doing all right now
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Nov 1, 2015 03:24
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i gave a list of things that chafe me about the actual jobs i have had. That's really the issue here, right? You're taking your personal experiences and generalizing them to everyone else, and then you keep insisting that they generalize even when told that other people's experiences are different. I didn't answer your questions because they represent some serious goalpost-moving from the original things I was replying to.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:25
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anyway you're not giving any of us any new information. we all know that work sucks its something you realize when you're 16. the only reason people are engaging you is because you refuse to admit that job satisfaction is an actual thing, which is dumb because it clearly is for almost everyone except you.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:25
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you "practically" determine your own hours lol
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Nov 1, 2015 03:26
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fart simpson posted:anyway you're not giving any of us any new information. we all know that work sucks its something you realize when you're 16. the only reason people are engaging you is because you refuse to admit that job satisfaction is an actual thing, which is dumb because it clearly is for almost everyone except you. y'all have bought into a serious line of bullshit. you were right when you were 16. "job satisfaction" is a continuum from "gently caress me" to "gently caress you" and in between lies "well at least i'm not shoveling poo poo" 
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Nov 1, 2015 03:27
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grovelling for money every day to feed your family is no way to be human saying it's all good because you have cool, challenging problems is lol
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Nov 1, 2015 03:28
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you're moving your goalposts
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Nov 1, 2015 03:30
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:someone else tells me where i should show up and what time. by "practically" choose my own hours I mean that this is literally false, by the way. the payment is for producing something of value, not for sitting in a chair for any particular hours. harping on about how that doesn't match your new, revised goalposts is kind of silly.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:34
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Mate, even if you're self employed your clients or customers are setting requirements and timeframes for you. You're never actually free from all your criteria unless you literally never promise to do anything for anyone ever, paid or not. Which is fine if you want to roll that way, but the likelihood that you can operate like that and work on projects of consequence is pretty slim.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:45
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Jabor posted:by "practically" choose my own hours I mean that this is literally false, by the way. the payment is for producing something of value, not for sitting in a chair for any particular hours. see this is a huge step forward in an employment relationship it's still worse than having someone else do the work, but a real contracting arrangement is still a start.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:51
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Maluco Marinero posted:You're never actually free from all your criteria unless you literally never promise to do anything for anyone ever, paid or not. Which is fine if you want to roll that way, but the likelihood that you can operate like that and work on projects of consequence is pretty slim. yeah i actually want to have total latitude in my activities why should i even want to work on "projects of consequence" that are not my own projects?
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Nov 1, 2015 03:52
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:yeah i actually want to have total latitude in my activities Even if they are yours, they don't actually work like a dictatorship. You are as beholden to the people you lead as they are to you in your own projects.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:54
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