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Megazver posted:I prefer "quaffed" or "chortle-sneezed". Personally, I like exhaled air forcefully over vibrating folds of fleshy tissue
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Nov 1, 2015 21:44
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he said she said steve said mary said Is the way.
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Nov 1, 2015 21:51
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I've always been a big fan of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's penchant for Watson ejaculating in surprise.
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Nov 1, 2015 22:14
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I've always been a big fan of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's penchant for Watson ejaculating in surprise. Coke's a helluva drug, man.
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Nov 1, 2015 22:56
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I've always been a fan of "Please go to the master bedroom and look inside the chest of drawers by the window, you'll find a bundle of letters hidden under the socks, get it and bring it back to me," yelled Harry.
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Nov 1, 2015 23:02
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Cormac McCarthy didn't need no goddamn "said" nonsense. Neither do you.
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Nov 2, 2015 03:23
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This has probably been covered before, but I'm a bazillion pages of posts behind, and genuinely curious: how do you guys deal with two people of the same gender when it comes to prose, and dialogue? I short-hand it for my first drafts by just using their names in paragraphs/dialogue tags to note when I'm switching which "she" or "he" I'm talking about, but I'd love to know what other techniques are floating around out there. As is, I'm struggling to write the first draft of a novel I've been dwelling on since May of this year. I've made some good headway - or, I had, anyway - but I can't seem to quit revising the drat thing, at least when it comes to the plot arcs. Granted, it's been worthwhile to go about it that way, in some sense, but I don't feel like I'm making any progress. I come from a background of writing single chapters of things, going 'okay, I guess that's canon,' and forcing myself to build on those chapters, even if they were taking the wrong route. EDIT: I felt like it was a good exercise, at first, at least in terms of 'yes, and'ing my own mistakes, and making something worthwhile out of it, but that's the problem. It was an exercise, and it turned into a habit. I get the feeling I'm overcompensating re: not doing that with this current project, even if some of it has been really beneficial to building up the characters, their voices, their motivations, and their overall involvement in the over-arcing plot (which has been invaluable, and I don't regret that side of it at all). My other big issue that ties into the 'okay, I guess this is canon' thing is that I do overhauls of chapters as I'm writing them, so it really does feel like baby steps when not only the world is being changed around, fixed, and made better (as it should), but chapters I've put a ton of work into are being scrapped because they don't fit the updated framework. I need to stop that habit. It's good for technique, re: building up my ability to really sell a scene, but it's been really bad for morale. It really doesn't help that I'm tackling a subject that could end up being laughable (werewolves; i hear you laughing already), but even though it was a dumb idea I had sitting around after a 2+ year dry spell (my Precious Babby ideas were getting too daunting), I've started getting invested in it, and really would like to complete it. Old Boot fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 08:56
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Are they the only two people in the conversation? Because if so, I establish who's talking for the first two paragraphs, and after that just go new paragraph, new talker.
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Nov 2, 2015 09:12
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another thing to consider is that if your conversation is so long and the dialogue lacks characterisation or context such that it's impossible to tell who is speaking without writing ", said Harry." after every line then probably your dialogue as a whole needs revision essentially the question is "what are some neat tricks to shore up weak and muddy dialogue". start from the bottom up. the very first question you should be asking is "do i even need dialogue", not that dialogue is inherently bad but if you're not at least asking yourself that question then you're on a dangerous path magnificent7 posted:Cormac McCarthy didn't need no goddamn "said" nonsense. Neither do you. yeah fiction writing 101 just do whatever cormac mccarthy or hemmingway do, duh Sulla Faex fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 10:19
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please, for the love of God, if you are doing a ton of dialogue add in some physical description. like, unless you have loving amazing dialogue, like Hemingway level dialogue, then ten lines of talking without any description will make it seem like two people talking in a void reading a script which is really, really, really bad. also, how people move when they talk and how they react to what's being said usually gives more information on their mental state and opinions then what they say.
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Nov 2, 2015 17:27
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Broenheim posted:please, for the love of God, if you are doing a ton of dialogue add in some physical description. like, unless you have loving amazing dialogue, like Hemingway level dialogue, then ten lines of talking without any description will make it seem like two people talking in a void reading a script which is really, really, really bad. also, how people move when they talk and how they react to what's being said usually gives more information on their mental state and opinions then what they say. I agree with this. I like to put small actions interjected in there somewhere. It establishes a rhythm, allowing you to slow the rapid-fire pace of back-and-forth dialog. It sets a mood (so-and-so pours a tall glass of bleach, then says, "blah") and it gives you chances to characterize (so-and-so nodded and pulled his dick out, saying, "Tell me more.").
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Nov 2, 2015 18:36
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Old Boot posted:This has probably been covered before, but I'm a bazillion pages of posts behind, and genuinely curious: how do you guys deal with two people of the same gender when it comes to prose, and dialogue? A great way to find ways to do this is to grab some books you own and flip through pages until you come across dialogue. A lot of it will be between two people of the same gender. Then you can see how a bunch of your favorite authors do it! Broenheim posted:please, for the love of God, if you are doing a ton of dialogue add in some physical description. like, unless you have loving amazing dialogue, like Hemingway level dialogue, then ten lines of talking without any description will make it seem like two people talking in a void reading a script which is really, really, really bad. also, how people move when they talk and how they react to what's being said usually gives more information on their mental state and opinions then what they say. Hey I wrote a big post on this once... Dr. Kloctopussy posted:4) which brings us to breaking up arguments with meaningful action. When your characters absolutely must have an extended discussion of something, it's good to break it up by adding meaningful action. That means actions that independently add to the plot, not just emotive actions like nervously running fingers through hair, although those kinds of actions are useful too.
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Nov 2, 2015 18:48
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i just never have two people of the same gender interact. It's a little cumbersome, but on the plus side it does force me to create new characters who can serve as middlemen/women for conversations. the best part is you don't really gotta come up with backgrounds for them, because they're just one use things, but it really gets up your Character Count (CC).
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Nov 2, 2015 18:52
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i have two people of different genders so i can just he and she pronouns and dont have to keep using their dumb names that i hate because gently caress names
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Nov 2, 2015 19:00
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crabrock posted:i just never have two people of the same gender interact. It's a little cumbersome, but on the plus side it does force me to create new characters who can serve as middlemen/women for conversations. the best part is you don't really gotta come up with backgrounds for them, because they're just one use things, but it really gets up your Character Count (CC). Do you have any other advice for those of us who are looking to min-max our writing stats? I'm guessing we'll need specific software on specific computers. Certain times of day to write. Should I be stocking up on buffs like "5 Hour Energy"? That kind of stuff. I mean, I suppose I could grind it out like a scrub and just keep writing to improve my story telling, but who's got time for that. I want to be able publish right away, and not be locked in pubbie/casual mode.
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Nov 2, 2015 19:03
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flosofl posted:Do you have any other advice for those of us who are looking to min-max our writing stats? I like to use flashbacks to things that happened earlier in the book. It's like getting double credit for doing the same work.
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Nov 2, 2015 19:43
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:I like to use flashbacks to things that happened earlier in the book. It's like getting double credit for doing the same work. So, like a clip-reel. Should I make sure to put the flash-back in italics?
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Nov 2, 2015 19:44
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flosofl posted:So, like a clip-reel. Should I make sure to put the flash-back in italics? Italicize it and -- this important -- add doggerel between every couple of paragraphs. Readers love that poo poo.
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Nov 2, 2015 19:51
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Thanks for all the responses. Sulla-Marius 88 posted:another thing to consider is that if your conversation is so long and the dialogue lacks characterisation or context such that it's impossible to tell who is speaking without writing ", said Harry." after every line then probably your dialogue as a whole needs revision Yeah, when I'm placing names or pronouns in tags for my first draft, it's usually as placeholders for an action, or if it just reads better with a "she said" in there, flow-wise, since it gives the feeling of a small "beat." To me, at least. Usually, a lot of that poo poo gets stripped out in subsequent drafts if there's no physical action during that segment, but the same gender thing can sometimes get a little muddy in terms of "which she are you talking about?", so I've noticed that I'll sometimes overcompensate. I'm making it a point to quit that in the draft I'm writing today, though, and it isn't all that confusing. Reads better, too, even if it is a lovely first draft. Overwined posted:I agree with this. I like to put small actions interjected in there somewhere. It establishes a rhythm, allowing you to slow the rapid-fire pace of back-and-forth dialog. It sets a mood (so-and-so pours a tall glass of bleach, then says, "blah") and it gives you chances to characterize (so-and-so nodded and pulled his dick out, saying, "Tell me more."). This is generally how I do it, too. (also lol) Dr. Kloctopussy posted:A great way to find ways to do this is to grab some books you own and flip through pages until you come across dialogue. A lot of it will be between two people of the same gender. Then you can see how a bunch of your favorite authors do it! As obvious as this is (and as plainly as it's stated in the OP), this is one thing I actually haven't gotten around to. Guess I don't really have an excuse anymore. I was mostly just curious what tricks other authors in the thread used.
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Nov 2, 2015 19:58
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So, if anyone feels like giving some feedback on a short story, I'd appreciate it. It's about 6,100 words. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3749687#post452229065 The plan is to clean it up for submissions. Again, thanks in advance.
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Nov 2, 2015 20:07
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A serious response to dialog - include the actions of the people; rubbing their hands, picking their teeth, rolling their eyes, fapping. Anything. It really helps you with the dialog tags, by ducking just a bunch of Jim said, Jeff said.quote:Jeff picked at a wart on his hand. "It's not like you killed someone, right?"
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Nov 3, 2015 00:13
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magnificent7 posted:A serious response to dialog - include the actions of the people; rubbing their hands, picking their teeth, rolling their eyes, fapping. Anything. It really helps you with the dialog tags, by ducking just a bunch of Jim said, Jeff said. only use meaningful action, though. endless tv-style 'he scratched his head, then shifted from one foot to the other while flicking his lustrous mane of tawny gold hair' blocking is super-tedious. Do the adverb test - if removing the action description would change the meaning of the phrase then leave it in, otherwise chop.
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Nov 3, 2015 00:18
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Here's a silly little illustration I thought up for this. Take the following scintillating dialog:quote:"Yes," she said. Now look at this one: quote:"Yes," she said. It really just boils down to people do things while they talk. They don't just sit still and stare at each other's faces. Your prose ought to at least distill and present this.
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Nov 3, 2015 01:05
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I've never read anything where I felt like "man, I wish they used less attribution for their dialogue." He said/she said/John said are beautiful in how little you notice them.
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Nov 3, 2015 01:20
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magnificent7 posted:Jeff picked at a wart on his hand. "It's not like you killed someone, right?" quote:"No, I guess not. She was alive when I left her." Jim said, with a blank expression on his face, unable to turn away from Jeff's wart-pickery. quote:"No, I guess not. She was alive when I left her." Jim said quote:her." Jim said  punctuate your dialogue right!!! https://litreactor.com/columns/talk-it-out-how-to-punctuate-dialogue-in-your-prose this is like my biggest pet peeve and its so easy and simple seriously stop being lazy.
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Nov 3, 2015 02:47
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sebmojo posted:only use meaningful action, though. endless tv-style 'he scratched his head, then shifted from one foot to the other while flicking his lustrous mane of tawny gold hair' blocking is super-tedious. Do the adverb test - if removing the action description would change the meaning of the phrase then leave it in, otherwise chop. Achilles despised Thersites most, Odysseus too--he was always abusing both chiefs, but now he went for majestic Agamemnon, hollering out, taunting the king with strings of cutting insults. The Achaeans were furious with him, deeply offended. But he kept shouting at Agamemnon, spewing his abuse. "Still moaning and groaning, mighty Atrides--why now? What are you panting after now? Your shelters packed with the lion's share of bronze, plenty of women too, crowding your lodges. Best of the lot, the beauties we hand you first, whenever we take some stronghold. Or still more gold you're wanting? More ransom a son of the stallion-breaking Trojans might just fetch from Troy?--though I or another hero drags him back in chains...Or a young woman, is it? to spread and couple, to bed down for yourself apart from all the troops? How shameful for you, the high and mighty commander, to lead the sons of Achaea into bloody slaughter! Sons? No, my soft friends, wretched excuses--women, not men of Achaea! Home we go in our ships! Abandon him here in Troy to wallow in all his prizes--he'll see if the likes of us have propped us up or not. Look--now it's Achilles, a greater man he disgraces, seizes and keeps his prize, tears her away himself. But no gall in Achilles. Achilles lets it go. If not, Atrides, that outrage would have been your last!" So Thersites taunted the famous field marshal. But Odysseus stepped in quickly, faced him down with a dark glance and threats to break his nerve. "What a flood of abuse, Thersites! Even for you, fluent and flowing as you are. Keep quiet. Who are you to wrangle with kings, you alone? No one, I say--no one alive less soldierly than you, none in the ranks that came to Troy with Agamemnon. So stop your babbling, mouthing the names of kings, flinging indecencies in their teeth, your eyes peeled for a chance to cut and run for home. We can have no idea, no clear idea at all how long the campaign will end...whether Achaea's sons will make it home unharmed or slink back in disgrace, but there you sit, hurling abuse at the son of Atreus, Agamemnon, marshal of armies, simply because our fighters give Atrides the lion's share of all our plunder. You and your ranting slander--you're the outrage. I tell you this, so help me it's the truth: if I catch you again, blithering on this way, let Odysseus' head be wrenched off his shoulders, never again call me the father of Telemachus if I don't grab you, strip the clothing off you, cloak, tunic and rags that wrap your private parts, and whip you howling naked back to the fast ships, out of the armies' muster--whip you like a cur!" And he cracked the scepter across his back and shoulders. The rascal dubbed over, tears streaking his face and a bloody welt bulged up between his blade , under the stroke of the golden scepter's studs. He squatted low, cringing, stunned with pane, blinking like some idiot...rubbing his tears off dumbly with his fist. Their morale was low but the men laughed now, good hearty laughter breaking over Thersites' head--glancing at neighbors they would shout: "A terrific stroke! A thousand terrific strokes he's carried off--Odysseus, taking the lead in tactics, mapping battle-plans. But here's the best thing yet he's done for the men--he's put a stop to this babbling, foulmouthed fool! Never again, I'd say, will our gallant comrade risk his skin to attack the kings with insults." So the soldiers bantered, but not Odysseus. The raider of cities stood there, scepter in hand, and close beside him the great grey-eyed Athena rose like a herald, ordering men to silence.
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Nov 3, 2015 02:59
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Achilles despised Thersites most, Odysseus too--he was always abusing both chiefs, but now he went for majestic Agamemnon, hollering out, taunting the king with strings of cutting insults. The Achaeans were furious with him, deeply offended. But he kept shouting at Agamemnon, spewing his abuse. kayfabe game: strong
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Nov 3, 2015 03:59
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Broenheim posted:
magnificent7 posted:Cormac McCarthy didn't need no goddamn "said" nonsense. Neither do you. But okay yes. You are correct. I am wrong. Thanks for the link to the article. I'm always confusing that stuff.
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Nov 3, 2015 04:23
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sebmojo posted:only use meaningful action, though. endless tv-style 'he scratched his head, then shifted from one foot to the other while flicking his lustrous mane of tawny gold hair' blocking is super-tedious. Do the adverb test - if removing the action description would change the meaning of the phrase then leave it in, otherwise chop. "Goodness gracious! Is that you, Mr. Bumble, sir?" said Mrs. Mann, thrusting her head out of the window in well-affected ecstasies of joy. "(Susan, take Oliver and them two brats up stairs, and wash 'em directly.) My heart alive! Mr. Bumble, how glad I am to see you, sure-ly!" Now, Mr. Bumble was a fat man, and a choleric; so, instead of responding to this open-hearted salutation in a kindred spirit, he gave the little wicket a tremendous shake, and then bestowed upon it a kick which could have emanated from no leg but a beadle's. "Lor, only think," said Mrs. Mann, running out, -- for the three boys had been removed by this time, -- "only think of that! That I should have forgotten that the gate was bolted on the inside, on account of them dear children! Walk in, sir; walk in, pray, Mr. Bumble, do, sir." Although this invitation was accompanied with a curtsey that might have softened the heart of a churchwarden, it by no means mollified the beadle. "Do you think this respectful or proper conduct, Mrs. Mann," inquired Mr. Bumble, grasping his cane, "to keep the parish officers a waiting at your garden-gate, when they come here upon porochial business connected with the porochial orphans? Are you aweer, Mrs. Mann, that you are, as I may say, a porochial delegate, and a stipendiary?" "I'm sure, Mr. Bumble, that I was only a telling one or two of the dear children as is so fond of you, that it was you a coming," replied Mrs. Mann with great humility. Mr. Bumble had a great idea of his oratorical powers and his importance. He had displayed the one, and vindicated the other. He relaxed. "Well, well, Mrs. Mann," he replied in a calmer tone; "it may be as you say; it may be. Lead the way in, Mrs. Mann, for I come on business, and have something to say." Mrs. Mann ushered the beadle into a small parlour with a brick floor; placed a seat for him; and officiously deposited his cocked hat and cane on the table before him. Mr. Bumble wiped from his forehead the perspiration which his walk had engendered, glanced complacently at the cocked hat, and smiled. Yes, he smiled. Beadles are but men; and Mr. Bumble smiled. "Now don't you be offended at what I'm a going to say," observed Mrs. Mann, with captivating sweetness. "You've had a long walk, you know, or I wouldn't mention it. Now, will you take a little drop of somethink, Mr. Bumble?" "Not a drop. Not a drop," said Mr. Bumble, waving his right hand in a dignified, but placid manner. "I think you will," said Mrs. Mann, who had noticed the tone of the refusal, and the gesture that had accompanied it. "Just a leetle drop, with a little cold water, and a lump of sugar." Mr. Bumble coughed. "Now, just a leetle drop," said Mrs. Mann persuasively. "What is it?" inquired the beadle. "Why, it's what I'm obliged to keep a little of in the house to put into the blessed infants' Daffy, when they ain't well, Mr. Bumble," replied Mrs. Mann as she opened a corner cupboard, and took down a bottle and glass. "It's gin. I'll not deceive you, Mr. B. It's gin." "Do you give the children Daffy, Mrs. Mann?" inquired Bumble, following with his eyes the interesting process of mixing. "Ah, bless 'em, that I do, dear as it is," replied the nurse. "I couldn't see 'em suffer before my very eyes, you know, sir." "No;" said Mr. Bumble approvingly; "no, you could not. You are a humane woman, Mrs. Mann." (Here she set down the glass.) "I shall take a early opportunity of mentioning it to the board, Mrs. Mann." (He drew it towards him.) "You feel as a mother, Mrs. Mann." (He stirred the gin-and-water.) "I- I drink your health with cheerfulness, Mrs. Mann;" and he swallowed half of it. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 09:54
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sebmojo posted:only use meaningful action, though. endless tv-style 'he scratched his head, then shifted from one foot to the other while flicking his lustrous mane of tawny gold hair' blocking is super-tedious. Do the adverb test - if removing the action description would change the meaning of the phrase then leave it in, otherwise chop. Turning the envelope over, his hand trembling, Harry saw a purple wax seal bearing a coat of arms; a lion, an eagle, a badger, and a snake surrounding a large letter H. "Hurry up, boy!" shouted Uncle Vernon from the kitchen. "What are you doing, checking for letter bombs?" He chucked at his own joke. Harry went back to the kitchen, still staring at his letter. He handed Uncle Vernon the bill and the postcard, sat down, and slowly began to open the yellow envelope. Uncle Vernon ripped open the bill, snorted in disgust, and flipped over the post card. "Marge's ill," he informed Aunt Petunia. "Ate a funny whelk..." "Dad!" said Dudley suddenly. "Dad, Harry's got something!" Harry was on the point of unfolding his letter, which was written on the same heavy parchment as the envelope, when it was jerked sharply out of his hand by Uncle Vernon. "That's mine!" said Harry, trying to snatch it back. "Who'd be writing to you?" sneered Uncle Vernon, shaking the letter open with one hand and glancing at it. His face went from red to green faster than a set of traffic lights. And it didn't stop there. Within seconds it was the grayish white of old porridge. "P-P-Petunia!" he gasped. Dudley tried to grab the letter to read it, but Uncle Vernon held it high out of his reach. Aunt Petunia took it curiously and read the first line. For a moment it looked as though she might faint. She clutched her throat and made a choking noise. "Vernon! Oh my goodness -- Vernon!" The stared at each other, seeming to have forgotten that Harry and Dudley were still in the room. Dudley wasn't used to being ignored. He gave his father a sharp tap on the head with his Smelting stick. "I want to read that letter," he said loudly. "I want to read it," said Harry furiously, "as it's mine." "Get out, both of you," croaked uncle Vernon, stuffing the letter back inside its envelope.
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Nov 3, 2015 11:05
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Hey gently caress all this dialog tag advice. I was interviewed on a blog about my book! I am somebody. http://jcwingandthegoddess.blogspot.com/2015/11/author-spotlight-beau-hall.html 
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Nov 4, 2015 01:09
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magnificent7 posted:Hey gently caress all this dialog tag advice. That's pretty awesome, dude. You are one upbeat motherfucker
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Nov 4, 2015 01:18
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Sitting Here posted:That's pretty awesome, dude. You are one upbeat motherfucker
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Nov 4, 2015 01:40
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magnificent7 posted:
Nice Beard! Has it helped sales?
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Nov 4, 2015 01:42
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newtestleper posted:Nice Beard! Has it helped sales?
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Nov 4, 2015 01:43
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magnificent7 posted:Absolutely. It was published about two hours ago and I've bought five copies since then. crabrock has liked this post
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Nov 4, 2015 04:49
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I just had a short story accepted for the January issue of http://psychopompmag.com/ Quite exciting, only my second acceptance. It came after 9 rejections!
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Nov 4, 2015 23:46
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newtestleper posted:I just had a short story accepted for the January issue of http://psychopompmag.com/ Congratulations! It's really awesome how much good news there's been in this thread recently.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:07
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I've been lurking this thread for about 3 years now, clicking all the links and reading all the recommended books. I just wanted to thank everyone here for putting up all your valuable insight. Because of this thread's motivation techniques, I've already plowed though 3 books, 7 self-edits, and 75 rough draft pages in my 4th book. I've enjoyed writing so much, that I've contemplated writing a second series of 4 books. After all this writing though, I found myself at a crossroads, seeking more goon (trustworthy) advice. I've only written for my personal satisfaction till now, but after careful deliberation, have decided to make the leap to get my works published. I'm aware that I'll need to construct a pitch, synopsis, manuscript, something about needing an agent (?), and then find the right kind of publisher for my needs. Right now, I'm horribly confused on the different types of publishing companies out there. I want to push this as far as I can go comercially, but also want to retain my rights and royalties. I'll gladly pay all up-front costs to not get screwed over in the end. Can someone point me to a legit source of info on this matter? Much of my research on publishers has led to confusing and sometimes contradictory results. I refuse to send anything out till I'm 100% confident with the people on the other end.
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Nov 5, 2015 11:56
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NiffStipples posted:Can someone point me to a legit source of info on this matter? Much of my research on publishers has led to confusing and sometimes contradictory results. READ THIS GUY: http://terribleminds.com/ramble/blog/ Chuck Wendig's blog. He is both self-published as well as traditional-published. His posts, (and cheap e-books on writing) provide a poo poo TON of things to consider regarding each path. Most of the other blogs I found on self-publishing vs. publishing tended to lean heavily on one side or the other, based on that person's own success story. If you are determined to pursue an agent, and then traditional publishing, a great way to see what agents are looking for is to follow the manuscript wish list hashtag: https://twitter.com/hashtag/mswl?src=hash. Don't bother writing new stories TO these requests, just consider contacting that person if you already have something. By the time you've written/edited/revised something, chances are the agent has moved on to the next shiny object. And then a great place to see exactly how contradictory these wishes are vs. what they're really liking is the ten queries hashtag: https://twitter.com/hashtag/tenqueries?src=hash My favorite eye-opener regarding this disconnect is Literary Agent Vader. He/she is pretty much the kid from the Emperor's New Clothes, calling out poo poo that nobody else seems to want to acknowledge. https://twitter.com/AgentVader One of my favorites: quote:#askagent Publishing is a dogpile of similar poo poo as everyone publishes clones of the last "big thing". Originality is dying, I fear
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Nov 5, 2015 16:19
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