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Namtab posted:Just a few more pages until lord justice is free! What was that about?
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Oct 31, 2015 16:06
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Yes_Cantaloupe posted:I will not stand for this discord. All the Madokas are good. 
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Oct 31, 2015 20:22
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All I'll say is that if the characters in Madoka were bros the Hitomi situation wouldn't have happened since bros don't do their bros like that.
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Oct 31, 2015 23:23
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hitomi is not a madoka
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Oct 31, 2015 23:39
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I wonder why Kyouko didn't turn into a witch when her family murder-suicided. I mean, Sayaka turned into a witch due to a combination of the situation with Kyousuke and finding out about the true zombie-ish nature of magical girls, but having your whole family murder-suicided due entirely to your own actions seems significantly worse. I mean, if that didn't cause enough despair it seems like Kyouko would just never become a witch.
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Oct 31, 2015 23:40
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It's cause Kyouka ain't a straight up busta
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Oct 31, 2015 23:43
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she's loving tough as nails
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Oct 31, 2015 23:49
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I'm probably the only one that wants an origin story about her and her dad's crazy cult probably better left to the imagination but still
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Oct 31, 2015 23:52
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Zas posted:I'm probably the only one that wants an origin story about her and her dad's crazy cult theres a little bit in the different story mang
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Nov 1, 2015 00:04
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Ytlaya posted:I wonder why Kyouko didn't turn into a witch when her family murder-suicided. I mean, Sayaka turned into a witch due to a combination of the situation with Kyousuke and finding out about the true zombie-ish nature of magical girls, but having your whole family murder-suicided due entirely to your own actions seems significantly worse. I mean, if that didn't cause enough despair it seems like Kyouko would just never become a witch. I think that's an interesting question. For a start, unlike Sayaka she probably wasn't going into a death spiral as a magical girl from lack of grief seeds or anything like that. Sayaka was trapped in a vicious circle where her real world depression fed her lack of grief seed consumption which presumably worsened her mental state still further. Even when Homura despairs, she's exhausted herself magically fighting Walpurgisnacht in addition to the obvious angst over her futile time travelling. We don't get to see how she immediately reacted to the tragedy but the jaded, cynical persona she adopts thereafter is presumably an important coping mechanism from her. And unlike Sayaka, who lashes out at everyone around her, Kyouko comes to consider her tragedy a result of her own actions (I don't know that I agree with her or you about that, incidentally), which induces despair but also allows her to retain a sense of agency. None of this makes her happy but it does keep her alive. Kyouko serves as Sayaka's counterpoint exactly because she is a survivor, but she ultimately rejects the sacrifices she made to survive in favour of Sayaka's idealism and dies as a result. Zas posted:she's loving tough as nails Probably the more accurate answer tho.
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Nov 1, 2015 00:52
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Also people who grow up in poverty with deep food insecurity tend to be a tad more resilient than sheltered middle class people in the first place
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Nov 1, 2015 01:15
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Lestaki posted:I think that's an interesting question. For a start, unlike Sayaka she probably wasn't going into a death spiral as a magical girl from lack of grief seeds or anything like that. Sayaka was trapped in a vicious circle where her real world depression fed her lack of grief seed consumption which presumably worsened her mental state still further. Even when Homura despairs, she's exhausted herself magically fighting Walpurgisnacht in addition to the obvious angst over her futile time travelling. So do their emotional states change as a direct result of exhausting their soul gems? Like, will a magical girl who's soul gem is running low always be super depressed? Or, to turn that around, will one with a full soul gem be in a better mental state and better able to cope with tragedy*? Also, regarding Kyouko causing her family to die - I mean that only in a "action A caused action B to happen" way; I don't think she's morally responsible in any way (that would be her father). Another tangentially related question about soul gems - do we have any idea how fast they normally exhaust? Like, how many witches does a magical girl need to kill per week/month in order to prevent her soul gem from being exhausted, assuming an average mental state? *edit: Just realized that having their mental/spiritual health be directly related to killing witches is sort of like the equivalent of an addict having to take the drug they're addicted to in order to continue feeling healthy. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Nov 1, 2015 |
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Nov 1, 2015 05:56
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Ytlaya posted:So do their emotional states change as a direct result of exhausting their soul gems? Like, will a magical girl who's soul gem is running low always be super depressed? Or, to turn that around, will one with a full soul gem be in a better mental state and better able to cope with tragedy*? Well the side materials, can't remember which exactly but this poo poo's on the Madoka wiki, said that Charlotte/Nagisa/Bebe lasted like 10 minutes as a magical girl before becoming a witch because Kyubey monkey-pawed the gently caress out of her wish, and one of the other witches (I think the one in the cage Homura kills during her montage) lasted until her 40s as a magical girl before becoming a witch so it depends on how bad their wish backfires/the intensity they use their powers etc as well as mental health And yes Kyubey is very clearly a drug dealer gettin kids hooked type Homura and Sickle fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Nov 1, 2015 |
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Nov 1, 2015 06:24
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Jagchosis posted:Well the side materials, can't remember which exactly but this poo poo's on the Madoka wiki, said that Charlotte/Nagisa/Bebe lasted like 10 minutes as a magical girl before becoming a witch because Kyubey monkey-pawed the gently caress out of her wish, and one of the other witches (I think the one in the cage Homura kills during her montage) lasted until her 40s as a magical girl before becoming a witch so it depends on how bad their wish backfires/the intensity they use their powers etc as well as mental health How does that even work? I can't really imagine a situation where someone would make a wish and, within ~10 minutes, go "OH poo poo THAT WAS DUMB" and fall into despair. I guess maybe if you made the wish so that you could become a magical girl and fight some witch (that you then used up all your energy against, like in that one timeline where Madoka contracts and turned into a witch immediately after fighting Walpurgisnacht), but in that case it wouldn't really be caused by the wish in any way.
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Nov 1, 2015 06:34
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Ytlaya posted:So do their emotional states change as a direct result of exhausting their soul gems? Like, will a magical girl who's soul gem is running low always be super depressed? Or, to turn that around, will one with a full soul gem be in a better mental state and better able to cope with tragedy*? In one of the loops in episode 10 when Madoka's Soul Gem runs out of power, she seems to be in severe physical and emotional pain with no obvious external cause, so while it's not clear how tightly linked a magical girl's reserves of magic are to her emotions it does at least seem like running on empty is inherently harmful to her mental state. Ytlaya posted:How does that even work? I can't really imagine a situation where someone would make a wish and, within ~10 minutes, go "OH poo poo THAT WAS DUMB" and fall into despair. I guess maybe if you made the wish so that you could become a magical girl and fight some witch (that you then used up all your energy against, like in that one timeline where Madoka contracts and turned into a witch immediately after fighting Walpurgisnacht), but in that case it wouldn't really be caused by the wish in any way. According to supplementary materials, she wished to eat cake one last time with her dying mother and then realised she could have used the wish to save her life instead.
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Nov 1, 2015 06:41
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Thuryl posted:According to supplementary materials, she wished to eat cake one last time with her dying mother and then realised she could have used the wish to save her life instead. Oh yeah, I guess that would kinda throw you into despair. I guess Kyuubei kind of banks on (and probably has some way to accurately predict) the fact that the teenage girls he's giving this offer to aren't exactly wise enough to make smart wishes (like, Sayaka's wish is dumb when she could have instead, at the very least, wished to cure everyone in the entire hospital or something). In the end, what Homura actually accomplishes (in the original series, ignoring Rebellion) is to provide Madoka with the perspective (and, well, karmic power) to make a good wish. edit: One thing that always kind of bugged me, though I completely understand why it was acceptable and necessary to ignore it for the purposes of telling the story, is the fact that it should have been entirely possible for Homura to communicate her situation with all the other magical girls (and effectively create a "Madoka doesn't contract and the others (minus possibly Mami*) fight Walpurgisnacht together" ending). Not only can she demonstrate her time magic, but she could have also predicted events of that month in advance to prove to the other girls that she's telling the truth about redoing the past over and over again. At the very last, Madoka seems like the type of person to believe her, and I really can't imagine Madoka contracting after being explicitly told "if you do this you'll turn into a witch and kill way more people than Walpurgisnacht." *Given that one timeline where Mami flips out and kills Kyouko after finding out about the true nature of magical girls, it's possible she may not have reacted well regardless Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Nov 1, 2015 |
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Nov 1, 2015 08:51
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Yeah. You're asking an emotionally-unstable child to make a wish in exchange for their lives. Even Sayaka fell prey to it and she spotted the absurdity immediately. How can you ask a girl who hasn't had a harsh life to make a wish and fight witches? A comfortable, maybe even pampered girl of some 13 years or whatever isn't going to be able to really make a proper wish. Happy idiots, I think she called themselves. She was aware, and she still fell. Plus it's not like coobie's going around asking the smartest of the smart. He's like a scammer, targeting the weakest and most easily tricked.
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Nov 1, 2015 09:01
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QB grants the wishes literally as spoken. If you want to eat cake one last time, you'll get a cake. That part isn't a trick, he's just hoping for a short sighted wish. E: the trick comes from the fact that he withholds information about the consequences of making the wish, he lies by omission
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Nov 1, 2015 12:43
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Ytlaya posted:edit: One thing that always kind of bugged me, though I completely understand why it was acceptable and necessary to ignore it for the purposes of telling the story, is the fact that it should have been entirely possible for Homura to communicate her situation with all the other magical girls (and effectively create a "Madoka doesn't contract and the others (minus possibly Mami*) fight Walpurgisnacht together" ending). Not only can she demonstrate her time magic, but she could have also predicted events of that month in advance to prove to the other girls that she's telling the truth about redoing the past over and over again. At the very last, Madoka seems like the type of person to believe her, and I really can't imagine Madoka contracting after being explicitly told "if you do this you'll turn into a witch and kill way more people than Walpurgisnacht." If Homura wasn't Homura, that solution might be more plausible. But there's no timeline when Homura isn't socially awkward, initially because she's been bedridden and sickly for much of her life and later because she's given up on other people and decided to do everything herself. The first time she attempts the obvious, Sayaka scorns her to her face, then Mami despairs, kills her friends and attempts to kill her. After that, Homura dislikes both of them and trusts neither of them, something which holds her back in Rebellion because she can't perceive how the two girls have changed in comparison to her image of them. Kyouko, by contrast, gets special treatment as a reliable fellow cynic who Homura attempts to co opt as a collaborator in both series and movie, but she's never fully trusted with what Homura's actually thinking or feeling. The timeloop is an alienating experience. Every time she loops, Homura's memories of the others and their memories of her become more and more out of sync, something which troubles her greatly. In the end, she concludes that Madoka's too good-natured to be trusted not to make a wish and the others can't be trusted with the truth. It doesn't particularly matter if either of these ideas are actually true. Just like Kyouko, Homura's coping mechanism for dealing with her trauma (remember when she shot Madoka in the head? Fun times) is to act alone and pursue her own desire to the exclusion of everything else. She still makes limited attempts to help Mami and Sayaka, but how much of that is goodwill and how much of it is expediency is hard to say. Despite Homura's theoretical attachment to logic, she's not a perfectly rational decision maker. The result of her experiences is that she decides that the best strategy is for her to keep the others in the dark, manipulate them as best she can, and kill Walpurgisnacht with her own hands. To state it more simply, she doesn't trust anyone else any more- not even Madoka, really. And when you consider her experiences during the other loops, that's an understandable response.
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Nov 1, 2015 13:44
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Posting cute   
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Nov 1, 2015 17:53
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cute
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Nov 1, 2015 21:57
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Space Flower posted:Posting cute 
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Nov 1, 2015 22:09
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Rewatching some of the original series (since I had only seen it once before) on crunchyroll, and like half of the comments around episodes 3-5 are "WHY DOESN'T MADOKA JUST CONTRACT AND WISH MAMI BACK TO LIFE," ironically proving that many people in real life would make the same sort of dumb/short-sighted wishes that the characters in the show make (wishing back to life a person doomed to be a child soldier and die at a young age is pretty dumb).
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Nov 2, 2015 06:17
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Posting best 
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Nov 2, 2015 06:35
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Nov 2, 2015 06:39
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Nov 2, 2015 06:40
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Nov 2, 2015 06:46
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lmao
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Nov 2, 2015 06:48
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Nov 2, 2015 06:58
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I can't see that without thinking of this. 
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Nov 2, 2015 06:58
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Sayaka is kind of a bitch when she complains about Kyouko stealing the apples in episode 7. Kyouko doesn't even have a family, so she doesn't exactly have any money to buy food with. I guess I can give her a pass since she wasn't in a great state of mind at the time, but still.
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Nov 2, 2015 07:20
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Ytlaya posted:Sayaka is kind of a bitch when she complains about Kyouko stealing the apples in episode 7. Kyouko doesn't even have a family, so she doesn't exactly have any money to buy food with. I guess I can give her a pass since she wasn't in a great state of mind at the time, but still. I didn't think about the class implications of that lecture (moreso focused on how hosed Sayaka was saying something that self righteous) but yeah this reinforces Sayaka being worst Madoka Middle class girl lecturing a homeless orphan for stealing to survive
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Nov 2, 2015 08:20
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Jagchosis posted:I didn't think about the class implications of that lecture (moreso focused on how hosed Sayaka was saying something that self righteous) but yeah this reinforces Sayaka being worst Madoka I actually like Sayaka for the most part - maybe even the most as a character - but it's just that one part that kind of rubbed me the wrong way (largely because I think the creators honestly intended us to interpret that as a positive thing, like "wow, Sayaka has such a strong sense of justice!"). Everything else she does is pretty reasonable, given her age and circumstances. Chances are, most magical girls in the setting end up suffering a similar fate to her own (that is, realizing after it's too late how hosed up and depressing their life has become and falling into despair as a result). If anything, it sounds like Mami was some huge exception in that her circumstances and mindset seem like they wouldn't really be compatible with lasting a very long time as a magical girl.
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Nov 2, 2015 08:43
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I think the scene among others illustrates how Sayaka and Madoka's ideals come off as naive and condescending because they're from upper-middle class families (and they admit this themselves when talking with Mami), but I don't see the cause to hold it against them. They're kids and it's natural for them to gently caress up, and clash with people who come from different worlds. Sayaka makes an effort to understand Kyouko and I'd argue nothing short of death stands in the way of their reconciliation, but Rebellion topped that too.
Space Flower fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 08:47
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Stealing is morally correct. Stop shopshaming.
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Nov 2, 2015 08:53
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In her defense Kyouko has magic powers, she could be stealing a balanced, healthy 5-color Japanese meal, but is she? No way she just steals apples and candy. Maybe she should put down that spear and pick up some floss, jeez.
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Nov 2, 2015 15:28
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Cephas posted:In her defense Kyouko has magic powers, she could be stealing a balanced, healthy 5-color Japanese meal, but is she? No way she just steals apples and candy. Maybe she should put down that spear and pick up some floss, jeez. What if Magical Girls can't get cavities, huh?
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Nov 2, 2015 15:37
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Insurrectionist posted:What if Magical Girls can't get cavities, huh?
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Nov 2, 2015 16:54
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Space Flower posted:Posting cute hhnngggg laffo
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Nov 2, 2015 19:39
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Jagchosis posted:I didn't think about the class implications of that lecture (moreso focused on how hosed Sayaka was saying something that self righteous) but yeah this reinforces Sayaka being worst Madoka I don't think Magical Girls need to eat. I mean. They never discuss it, but it would be a natural assumption based on everything else about their physiology.
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Nov 2, 2015 23:03
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