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I came at that city with the idea I wasn't using enough roundabouts. Not getting to use roundabouts everyday and slightly dismayed at the wasted space of a nice looking decorated roundabout, I quickly took on a very corrupted form of the idea of a roundabout. Do you like smooth industrial traffic and hate yourself? Have I got an industrial block design for you! Basically each quadrant of the block functions as a roundabout, so the AI can make very efficient paths to where they need to go much like a gigantic, smoggy, magic roundabout. Notations are meant to show the rings are 2 lane one ways, and the spokes are 2 lane two ways.  You can place them adjacent to each other, the handedness of the roundabouts affect weaving, but because of the nature of 2 lane intersections, weaving doesn't really have any detriment to the system.
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Nov 3, 2015 18:18
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I love how not a single one of your roads is actually straight. Your survey crews must show up to the site drunk.
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Nov 3, 2015 18:24
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2 lane roads are really good. I don't know if it's just the bad traffic/driving AI but they just work really well with the traffic system. Multi-lane roads, not so much. Highways are ok, but 4 and 6 lane roads almost always end up trouble. I only end up using them as "turning lanes" at intersections rather than big long lengths.
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Nov 3, 2015 18:25
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Baronjutter posted:It works great, cims will take the longest dumbest train rides. I have a feeling the time it takes to wait between transit forms is not taken into account when cims pick a mode, which is actually really stupid and leads to 300 people standing at a bus stop for months. But it means if you give cims 2 options to travel, one is a train that runs every 20 seconds, the other runs every 5 min and is always over full, but the pathing for both is equal, the cim will have about a 50/50 chance to pick either one. My general impression from playing the game (not backed up with precise data from careful observation) is that multiple transit modes can operate in the same area without too much inefficient pathing as long as the modes serve different purposes, e.g. bus routes are limited to local scope, like 50-100 units, while metro stops are spaced for longer-distance trips. Basically a stem-and-leaf approach I guess. A cim might still make 2-3 bus transfers to get to a destination that would be slightly better served by taking the metro, but you shouldn't have people taking a bus all the way across the city - I've read that cims will transfer no more than 3-4 times per trip. Setting up your network that way probably won't stop all instances of dumb pathing and overcrowded stations/stops, but it helps. If that's not enough, I guess there are mods (which I think you've posted about) that can be used to further min/max your lines and stuff. I've seen a CO dev state that cims do favor nearby jobs (and I think other destinations), but there wasn't a lot of detail provided. As with transit route (and mode?) selection, it sounded like there was a degree of fuzziness built in to the algorithm. I have no idea how heavy the bias is either; long routes certainly crop up pretty often so apparently it's not terribly strong. So a map with a few separate villages might see some tendency towards local trips vs. a single metro area, but I have no idea to what extent or how far apart the villages would need to be for it to matter.
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Nov 3, 2015 19:22
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I like making little village/towns out in the boonies and it seems 50/50 in terms of who stays local and who is willing to drive across 10 tiles to get to one specific store. FWIW I just made a little village hooked up with a train line and a reeeeaaally long 2-lane road. As soon as I built the 2 lane road traffic on it shot up, then it calmed down and now it's barely used. Maybe the cims realize it's dumb to drive that far and stop doing it as often? Dunno but it went from medium-heavy traffic to almost nothing. The train line is making money though. I will say it can cause fuckery if your education is overcrowded. IE if there aren't enough elementary schools for all potential students and you plop one down in some distant village, the school will get filled with students from the city itself and by the time you have residents in your village, the school is already full up and kids are taking daily train trips to elementary school. Then you have to build more elementary schools to accommodate the locals and before you know it there's like 3-4 schools in your 'small' town. It's possible to only use a train line to connect, though. The road just seems to spur development (I'll probably remove it at some point). I have another town on the same map that only has a passenger + cargo train line and no other way to get to the town and it's doing fine. Lots of commuters on the train line. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 19:26
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I do wish the game "allowed" for multiple towns on one map. You can kinda force it by separating them realistically and using districts to act as if they're towns, but like Moridin920 says, sometimes you get cims who drive all the way across the drat game world to go to work when there are plenty of available jobs/etc in their own section that they live in. It just happens by chance because the RNG that assigned them a job doesn't know how to deal with multiple towns. And that sort of sucks, because the gigantic mega-city logic the game expects you to use will give you a huge amount of infrastructure etc problems once your city starts getting really big.
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Nov 3, 2015 19:49
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CJacobs posted:I do wish the game "allowed" for multiple towns on one map. You can kinda force it by separating them realistically and using districts to act as if they're towns, but like Moridin920 says, sometimes you get cims who drive all the way across the drat game world to go to work when there are plenty of available jobs/etc in their own section that they live in. It just happens by chance because the RNG that assigned them a job doesn't know how to deal with multiple towns. And that sort of sucks, because the gigantic mega-city logic the game expects you to use will give you a huge amount of infrastructure etc problems once your city starts getting really big. FWIW, it's thoroughly realistic for some people to have huge commutes even though there are jobs nearby, given that not all jobs or houses are identical and people aren't perfectly rational actors. Sometimes people endure hours-long commutes for years, even when they could get a job at a McDonalds's 15 minutes from home or move closer to work. Whether that's fun/reasonable in the context of the game or not is a different question, of course. And the specific parameters matter a lot here; a few cims driving across the map is fine, but a large proportion doing it could be a problem depending on what you want/expect out of the game. I'll second Moridin's point about schools, and I guess other service buildings to an extent. City-wide capacity doesn't tell you anything about local demand. I don't think there's any way to get a solid read on that with the in-game tools, but you can at least draw some inferences by looking for long-haul students, garbage trucks, etc. Watch their routes, try to figure out what areas are producing/attracting them, and expand/redistribute services accordingly.
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Nov 3, 2015 20:12
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How big is a zone tile anyways? I'm trying to get a more accurate sense of scale, specially when doing transit systems. Like bus stops every 300m, tram stops every 400-500m, metro stops ever 1000m or so. Ah never mind, it's 8m per tile. Ok well that will help! Speaking of scale I noticed that even a lot of the CO-made buildings are horribly off-scale. I don't mind selective compression but flat out scaling up or down of a building looks awful. When one building's door is twice as big as another, or has floors twice as tall, it looks sloppy. I know a lot of the assets were just converted and modified from CiM1 but come on guys  Once you see it you can't un-see it.
Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 20:18
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I don't know what you're talking about *glances idly at elementary school with 300 capacity that's almost exactly as big as a college university*
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Nov 3, 2015 20:47
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CJacobs posted:I don't know what you're talking about *glances idly at elementary school with 300 capacity that's almost exactly as big as a college university* University students spend 80% of their time stoned out of their skulls and/or hung over, so obviously you can accommodate 5× the number in a similarly-sized building. 
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Nov 3, 2015 20:53
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Yeah that's a whole other issue, building's models not at all reflecting their stats. That's a an issue but easily fixed with mods though. What drives me nuts is the actual scale on buildings being different. Like some of the 4x4 low density residential buildings have doors/windows that are just 50% or so bigger than some of the smaller houses. They just took a 3d model of a rancher house and scaled it up to fill the lot better while down-scaling the 1x1 house to fit. And even some of the euro buildings suffer from this. One of the corner buildings is really over scaled. It's door is way too big and at 4 stories it's the same height as some 6+ story buildings. Yeah, buildings have different floor heights, but it's obvious when a building is just scaled up instead. Selective compression is fine though, we do it in model trains all the time. For instance say you are wanting to model a big factory but don't have space to fit it all. You don't make the whole factory at 1:1 then scale it down, that would look horrible. Instead you make everything to scale, but just make less of it. That 5 story section becomes 4 stories. That huge 10 bay loading dock becomes a 6 bay loading dock. The individual details don't change, just the building its self is reduced in scope. Good asset makers do this. They'll make a massive 1:1 version of a skyscraper, but when they make a 1.5 scale version or what ever they don't just scale the whole thing down and call it a day, they actually change the texture so the building is 30 stories rather than 50. The proportions change a little as the entry doors and ground floor remain 1:1 but the rest of the tower gets smaller. They don't just scale the building down, they make a smaller version. CO hosed up or got lazy on some buildings and seemingly simply scaled them rather than reduced their actual size. Like they got their modelers to make a ton of houses at an actual consistent scale, then took those assets and scaled them to cover the lot sizes they wanted.
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Nov 3, 2015 21:04
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Scaling to 1:1.5 by compressing stuff is a tough call with more elaborate buildings though; you're basically playing babby's first architectural design in those cases. And even worse, you're just copying, which makes it supremely unfun IMO. If people want smaller versions of my stuff they can always scale it themselves in the asset editor 
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Nov 3, 2015 21:16
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Koesj posted:Scaling to 1:1.5 by compressing stuff is a tough call with more elaborate buildings though; you're basically playing babby's first architectural design in those cases. And even worse, you're just copying, which makes it supremely unfun IMO. If people want smaller versions of my stuff they can always scale it themselves in the asset editor Yeah it's better not to make a smaller version at all if it's just a scale, otherwise it is almost like making a whole new version. I just wish the whole game was set out from the start to handle scale better. Why not have big 10x10 malls growing in low density commercial? Why not have farms bigger than someone's back yard garden? Why not have huge industrial facilities and mines and so on? You've made a 5x7 skyscraper, great work, it will grow in the game because there's no crazy 4x4 zoning system straitjacketing everything. The "zoning grid" from roads could just extend much father, or be configurable when laying roads or zoning at all, or just give the zoning grid handles that let the player drag them smaller or bigger. So you'd lay down a road, it would default to 4-deep zoning grid, but you could click on the slightly thicker line at the end of the zoning grid and pull it to make it deeper. Or maybe you have a city block and want one side to have a deeper grid than the other, you'd pull one and it would encroach and push back the other. So if you were zoning a farming area you'd draw in your rural road then grab the grid and yank it way back to make huge fields. Then you'd zone it agricultural (because industry specializations are a bad way to do sub-zones, just let me zone what I want to grow) and some big farms would grow ala simcity4 with a building and then attached fields. Or at least that's how I'd improve/fix the current system. Or abandon grid based zoning entirely do it really really well like this wit free-form zoning and procedural buildings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwdfE-SjBNc You decide the maximum height, the depth, the set backs all with a few easy click and drags. (god I hope this game ever becomes a thing) Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 21:34
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CJacobs posted:I don't know what you're talking about *glances idly at elementary school with 300 capacity that's almost exactly as big as a college university* The university sort of makes sense given that university campuses tend to be integrated into a bunch of buildings, ofen not purpose built, over multiple blocks, which the game can't really do. My university was a 10 storey tower block but it's surrounded by about 25 other buildings dotted over 4 or 5 blocks. You can't really do a single building university.
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Nov 3, 2015 21:40
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10 stories?? A tiny shameful university tower. The tower its self would be an 8x8 building in skylines. I'm really considering getting into modeling just to flesh out the game's services. More educational buildings, bigger ones, smaller ones, ones that look good downtown, ones that look good in the suburbs, ones that look good in the country and so on.
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Nov 3, 2015 21:47
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So as someone who is just starting this game, do I need to worry too much about my initial town layout, or is it just a springboard to enough tax revenue to eventually re-design the entire city into a dystopian hellscape later?
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Nov 3, 2015 21:53
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Azhais posted:So as someone who is just starting this game, do I need to worry too much about my initial town layout, or is it just a springboard to enough tax revenue to eventually re-design the entire city into a dystopian hellscape later? You'd have to have spectacularly good foresight (or just a borderline cheating map) if you can keep your initial layout. In particular, you'll probably very quickly want to move industrial areas and sources of pollution such as garbage dumps out of the way once more suitable real-estate opens up. Your first freeway connection will most likely inevitably have to be extended, which means removing any obstructions (or just temporary roads) you've built. Similarly, once you start building a solid logistics backbone, chances are you'll want to adjust where your commercial areas are too, to provide better access to goods, either directly from industries or as imports. That pretty much leaves residential areas as the only ones you might keep from the start, but even then you might rezone them as higher density areas later one depending on what else you've built in the meantime.
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Nov 3, 2015 22:00
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Azhais posted:So as someone who is just starting this game, do I need to worry too much about my initial town layout, or is it just a springboard to enough tax revenue to eventually re-design the entire city into a dystopian hellscape later? I usually try to preserve my initial layout for as long as possible in the form of like the "old town". Depending on how much real estate I have available, I'd rather build a separate high density district than necessarily re-zone my original village lots. Some maps don't have a whole lot of buildable land area, though, so you may have to make sacrifices. For aesthetic reasons, I avoid having the original village build up past low-density except along a specific "main street" area. It usually ends up being pretty nice, since that area was already saturated with services to encourage growth from before.
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Nov 3, 2015 22:20
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Moridin920 posted:kids are taking daily train trips to elementary school. All part of CommonObamaTrakCore 
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Nov 3, 2015 22:31
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zedprime posted:I came at that city with the idea I wasn't using enough roundabouts. Not getting to use roundabouts everyday and slightly dismayed at the wasted space of a nice looking decorated roundabout, I quickly took on a very corrupted form of the idea of a roundabout. This, but with hexagons and circles, and you have a perfect dystopian city-of-the-future. That looks suspiciously like Canberra.
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Nov 3, 2015 22:31
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Baronjutter posted:Yeah it's better not to make a smaller version at all if it's just a scale, otherwise it is almost like making a whole new version. This is my biggest beef with this game, if they released an expansion/dlc to actually deal with this stuff I'd lay down money loving crazy fast. I'm from the Midwest and so it's really weird not being able to put down factories, farms, and malls that actually look like factories, farms, and malls. Gobblecoque fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 22:55
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Baronjutter posted:I'm really considering getting into modeling just to flesh out the game's services. More educational buildings, bigger ones, smaller ones, ones that look good downtown, ones that look good in the suburbs, ones that look good in the country and so on. Would legit give you a few patreon bucks or some poo poo if you did, it's the one area I just can't find enough stuff. But then even in SC4 I was always hungry for more service buildings, it's just a problem I have. e; and yeah 100% agreed, I desperately want a lot more variation in building plot sizes and shite. Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 22:58
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The frame rate has finally tanked at 160000 what do I doooo oooo!
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Nov 3, 2015 23:32
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Presented without comment:
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Nov 4, 2015 00:10
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That's absolutely terrifying. I've got a friend who does 3d modeling and is just starting to get into skylines content, I think he mostly wants to make cars because he's enraged that most cars on the workshop are lovely 3mb 10 million triangle conversions straight from driving games. Anyways, as he learns he's going to teach me and hopefully we'll collaborate. I want to make a full set of "stuff" that fits in urban environments. So you don't have these nice street walls of high density buildings then suddenly a little detached building with landscaping and surface parking that looks totally out of place. So some urban schools, urban deathcare, urban hospital and so on. All of course with design that understands this is a video game that is actually trying to render buildings other than mine at the same time so maybe I don't need door handles or a 2056x texture on that air conditioner. I also want to make more growable buildings that fit in with the mid-high density wall to wall look. So buildings of similar massing to the euro set, but not all stuck in 1890. Fairly generic international buildings that would look good in just about any theme, but with wall to wall massing. Also refuse to just release a single building 5 times for all 5 building levels. Even if it's just a copy paste of a generic middle floor, every level should be slightly bigger/fancier than the previous. Or at least that's my intentions!
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Nov 4, 2015 00:19
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Moridin920 posted:Presented without comment: Get out of my current cities game! seriously, I have some horrible abomination of multiple intersecting highways, 6-lane streets, 4-lane streets, and offramps everywhere.
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Nov 4, 2015 00:20
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Baronjutter posted:That's absolutely terrifying. Ofaloaf fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 00:25
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Finally had a chance to sit down and play this since buying the expansion. This game is so pretty that it makes my traffic hell cities look good, especially at night. 
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Nov 4, 2015 00:29
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Furnaceface posted:Finally had a chance to sit down and play this since buying the expansion. I know! It doesn't matter what god-forsaken abomination I spew onto the map, if I wait for the right time of day and look at it from a certain angle, it'll still look nice. Thanks for making me feel good about myself, CO.
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Nov 4, 2015 00:38
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CJacobs posted:but like Moridin920 says, sometimes you get cims who drive all the way across the drat game world to go to work when there are plenty of available jobs/etc in their own section that they live in. So it's an accurate simulation of California. Work in San Francisco/Silicon Valley, live in the valley, entertainment/leisure in cities away from the valley such as the Sierra Mountains and coastline, and then groceries in the next town over. Then once you put in highspeed rail connecting San Fran to LA, everyone commutes even further rather than from city to city. 
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Nov 4, 2015 01:14
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Moridin920 posted:Presented without comment: What does it even do?
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Nov 4, 2015 01:45
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Is there any way to fix this? This... does not look right for mid-day.   The billboards are emitting light brighter than the sun. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 02:56
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Moridin920 posted:Presented without comment: I'm pretty sure that's just the High Five in Dallas with the orientation flipped. If I squint hard enough I can see my truck
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Nov 4, 2015 03:42
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Arglebargle III posted:
It's the "high five" intersection in Dallas, I used to have to drive through it daily on my commute for about three years. That's probably the only good shot of it ever. From the road it looks like any other dystopian suburban hellscape interchange. Fun fact at the bottom there is an intersection for two bicycle paths, one leads north in to the suburbs of Richardson, the other leads east to the Texas Instruments campus just out of frame to the bottom of the picture, and in the other direction it heads south to White Rock Lake along a creek bed, which is sort of the bicycle path hub of Dallas, and you can link up with the Santa Fe Trail, which will lead you in to downtown Dallas along a 'rails to trails' paved bike path. edit: this is what it looks like in Google Maps. It's about 5 miles north (NNE) of Downtown Dallas. 
Hadlock fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 04:09
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Baronjutter posted:Is there any way to fix this? This... does not look right for mid-day. Congratulations on building Gotham.
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Nov 4, 2015 04:55
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Hadlock posted:What does it even do? It's the "high five" intersection in Dallas, I used to have to drive through it daily on my commute for about three years. That's probably the only good shot of it ever. From the road it looks like any other dystopian suburban hellscape interchange. Fun fact at the bottom there is an intersection for two bicycle paths, one leads north in to the suburbs of Richardson, the other leads east to the Texas Instruments campus just out of frame to the bottom of the picture, and in the other direction it heads south to White Rock Lake along a creek bed, which is sort of the bicycle path hub of Dallas, and you can link up with the Santa Fe Trail, which will lead you in to downtown Dallas along a 'rails to trails' paved bike path. edit: this is what it looks like in Google Maps. It's about 5 miles north (NNE) of Downtown Dallas. [/quote] But why does it need 12 lanes and 3-lane (6-lane!) on and off ramps and bridges for frontage roads?
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Nov 4, 2015 04:59
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That's just how we build roads out here, three lanes in each directions, except for the local neighborhood streets. The recipe in DFW is 6 lane each direction highway (60mph), three lane each direction frontage road (45mph), which interfaces with three lane each direction surface roads(40mph), and they intersect at right angles creating 'mega blocks' about 1x1 miles, inside of which is an elementary school and park at the center (30mph). Cut. Copy. Paste. 
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Nov 4, 2015 05:05
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Arglebargle III posted:But why does it need 12 lanes and 3-lane (6-lane!) on and off ramps and bridges for frontage roads?
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Nov 4, 2015 05:22
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I drove in Dallas once. That was the only time in my life I genuinely thought I was going to have an accident.
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Nov 4, 2015 05:37
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Hadlock posted:That's just how we build roads out here, three lanes in each directions, except for the local neighborhood streets. Sim City did no wrong.
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