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Phoon posted:the nhs really needs some sort of underlying universal IT system connecting all GPs and hospitals but doing this is a very big job and every time the government tries they hire one of the big contractors, pay them millions and never get anything out of it because the contracts are insanely favourable, then use the expense as an excuse to make further cuts. Pretty much, we keep outsourcing the IT contracts to Fuckshit Morons LLC. (reg. Cayman Islands) and then act surprised when they deliver a steaming pile of turds as a product. I always figured that I'd just hire the British contingent of YOSPOS and get the same thing done with hundreds less employees in thousands less time for millions less pounds.
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Nov 4, 2015 10:34
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It would be entirely eyesearing green on black though. Or is that a plus?
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Nov 4, 2015 10:36
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winegums posted:So many problems with infrastructure could be fixed with in-house IT system development. I'd also like to see massive investment in NHS treatment research, where we research the drugs and tools we need rather than hoping a company will do it. Unfortunately that'd mean GROWING THE STATE, which is bad since it draws money away from the holy Private Sector.
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Nov 4, 2015 10:39
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Tesseraction posted:Pretty much, we keep outsourcing the IT contracts to Fuckshit Morons LLC. (reg. Cayman Islands) and then act surprised when they deliver a steaming pile of turds as a product. I have a lot of friends who work in the medical records department for the local hospital here and they're currently undergoing an IT system upgrade so the records go from being paper to digital. Its massively over budget and doesn't work. But still, records that werent digital in 2015.
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Nov 4, 2015 10:39
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Phoon posted:the nhs really needs some sort of underlying universal IT system connecting all GPs and hospitals but doing this is a very big job and every time the government tries they hire one of the big contractors, pay them millions and never get anything out of it because the contracts are insanely favourable, then use the expense as an excuse to make further cuts. As far as I'm aware they tend to hire multiple contractors, as per the holy laws of competition, and then instead of saying "right, here's exactly what you're going to make for us" they let them basically develop their parts in isolation Then the companies build something around their own commercial software products (probably requiring fees and service contacts down the line) - and because they're using proprietary software, they refuse to open it up so the other systems bring developed by other contractors can integrate with it So yeah, a unified system that's meant to integrate across the entire NHS, instead being developed as a bunch of private fiefdoms that won't talk to each other. ~*market efficiency*~
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Nov 4, 2015 11:06
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It'd be interesting if all software that was developed specifically for the state had to be open source. They already seem to be moving in that direction with office products, supporting a move to ods over MS Office formats, but I don't know how long that's going to take.
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Nov 4, 2015 11:10
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Even if it's not open source, for an organisation as massive and important as the NHS, you'd think they'd be allowed to mandate that the bespoke system being developed is open and unrestricted. But this is probably the same attitude that says national infrastructure like the power or transport systems are better in the hands of independent private companies, and that public bureaucracy is real bad
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Nov 4, 2015 11:37
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I had a bit of a taste of this insanity in my last job, it was basically crm systems for local council waste management but a large part of the job ended up being systems integration between as much as 3 different private systems, no one could just provide the source code so the best any of us ended up with was poo poo and inaccurate documentation leading to gently caress loads of tinkering just to get the api's talking to each other. The systems analyst in me just said; fucks sake if there was just one gov developed/run system doing all this it would be considerably more efficient because we seem to be spending most our time getting these systems which all do basically the same thing talking to each other. Im fairly sure in GCSE computer studies 30 years ago they said parallel running is ok in a transitional phase while things are getting worked out but not indefinite parallel running paying 3 different company's to do bits of the same thing and add a layer of complexity in making them talk to each other, but I suppose its somehow great to wanker a load of taxpayers money on nonsense instead of just doing it properly.
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Nov 4, 2015 11:40
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Nov 4, 2015 11:43
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Guavanaut posted:Knitting your own security is heavily frowned upon by everyone though, so they'd have to outsource some of it to someone. That could mean having a separate state security service that actually exists to give people access to security rather than spy on them, but that's anathema to current policy and I'm not sure I'd be inclined to trust them. Knitting your own security as in writing your own encryption algorithms is generally regarded as a Bad Plan, sure. Someone somewhere has to actually use OpenSSL etc to write secure software though, and that can just as easily be a competent programmer in-house as one at an outsourcing ocmpany.
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Nov 4, 2015 11:46
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baka kaba posted:Even if it's not open source, for an organisation as massive and important as the NHS, you'd think they'd be allowed to mandate that the bespoke system being developed is open and unrestricted. But this is probably the same attitude that says national infrastructure like the power or transport systems are better in the hands of independent private companies, and that public bureaucracy is real bad I'd prefer full open source for public infrastructure IT systems for the advantages that any future project can be engineered to integrate seamlessly with it and any mix and match of contractors, public or private, can pick it up, but making the input and output adhere to a simple public set of standards would at least be a start.
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Nov 4, 2015 11:49
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Seaside Loafer posted:Im fairly sure in GCSE computer studies 30 years ago they said parallel running is ok in a transitional phase while things are getting worked out but not indefinite parallel running paying 3 different company's to do bits of the same thing and add a layer of complexity in making them talk to each other, but I suppose its somehow great to wanker a load of taxpayers money on nonsense instead of just doing it properly. After a decade or so of working in local government I'm pretty convinced this is actually a national policy. We've currently got a situation where a team set up to provide an in-house archiving service has been comprehensively buggered by a terrible consultant with no expertise in information management whatsoever. As a result of his inability to meet deadlines we've been forced into re-outsourcing the whole thing, at vast expense and effort, to a outside company and now we're effectively back to where we were three years ago. Yesterday the idiot fucker sent an email to all senior managers complaining that he was receiving insufficient praise for his work; I sat and dreamed of his brutal and lingering death for a bit, and then got back to attempting to shovel his gigantic lovely fingerprints off our section of the project.
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Nov 4, 2015 11:54
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Guavanaut posted:I'd prefer full open source for public infrastructure IT systems for the advantages that any future project can be engineered to integrate seamlessly with it and any mix and match of contractors, public or private, can pick it up, but making the input and output adhere to a simple public set of standards would at least be a start. Also it'd mean that any concerned group (and I imagine there'd be a few for the NHS) could take a look at the code and see if what the contractors had provided was actually any use or a complete shitheap.
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Nov 4, 2015 11:57
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If we could critically review their code then the contractors might not sign the contract though.  Free market means that the best candidate wins as long as you can't see what they're actually doing.
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Nov 4, 2015 12:11
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Guavanaut posted:It'd be interesting if all software that was developed specifically for the state had to be open source. They already seem to be moving in that direction with office products, supporting a move to ods over MS Office formats, but I don't know how long that's going to take. You see this in Cuba, interestingly, and China - Cuba adopts Ubuntu Linux as it 'embraces the spirit of socialism' (I'm paraphrasing here but the sentiment is accurate) and China modified OpenOffice to create RedOffice, which has an interface that's nicer than the MSOffice Ribbon from what I saw of it. Of course, then you see that hilarious attempt that North Korea made at an OS and see how badly it can go.
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Nov 4, 2015 12:12
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Not UK specific news but Rupert Murdoch bought National Geographic and has fired some of the staff. Expect to see "Global warming fake, Source: National Geographic" headlines soon. If you can't beat the scientists, buy their stuff and smash it. http://reverbpress.com/business/rupert-murdoch-national-geographic-layoffs/ quote:The memo went out, and November 3rd 2015 came to the National Geographic office. This was the day in which Rupert Murdoch’s 21st Century Fox took over National Geographic. The management of National Geographic sent out an email telling its staff, all of its staff, all to report to their headquarters, and wait by their phones. This pulled back every person who was in the field, every photographer, every reporter, even those on vacation had to show up on this fateful day. Gonzo McFee fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 12:56
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Tesseraction posted:Pretty much, we keep outsourcing the IT contracts to Fuckshit Morons LLC. (reg. Cayman Islands) and then act surprised when they deliver a steaming pile of turds as a product. Speaking of Fuckshit Morons LLC. http://news.met.police.uk/news/the-metropolitan-police-service-chooses-atos-to-deliver-siam-services-136463 Metropolitan Police posted:The Metropolitan Police Service chooses Atos to deliver SIAM Services Anyway, on with PMQs!
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Nov 4, 2015 13:03
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Gonzo McFee posted:Not UK specific news but Rupert Murdoch bought National Geographic and has fired some of the staff. Expect to see "Global warming fake, Source: National Geographic" headlines soon. An important point that that article misses is that NG is no longer a non-profit, so long term, expensive, embedded reporting, which doesn't really make much money but leads to great, in-depth stories is likely out. Same with the kind of fantastic photography NG is known for (look at this year's Wildlife Photographer of the Year images and see just how many of them come from NG photographers).
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Nov 4, 2015 13:14
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DC just wheeled out the words "Crazy socialist plans" in PMQs
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Nov 4, 2015 13:18
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J_RBG posted:DC just wheeled out the words "Crazy socialist plans" in PMQs He also said he'd give Corbyn "full marx"
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Nov 4, 2015 13:22
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Also talked about a Stalinist advisor apparently... Is that the one that supported Class War!? He should brush up on his leftist infighting...
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Nov 4, 2015 13:26
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 Cameron's dead baby invoked!
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Nov 4, 2015 13:28
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someone reset the counter
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Nov 4, 2015 13:29
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a pipe smoking dog posted:He also said he'd give Corbyn "full marx" I'd like to think that questions on tax credits and the NHS would win out over lame puns and jeering but I dunno.
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Nov 4, 2015 13:30
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Antwan3K posted:Also talked about a Stalinist advisor apparently... Is that the one that supported Class War!? He should brush up on his leftist infighting... Seumas Milne I think
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Nov 4, 2015 13:31
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Not like Dave to miss an opportunity to jump on the dead baby band wagon.
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Nov 4, 2015 13:32
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Trickjaw posted:Not like Dave to miss an opportunity to jump on the dead baby band wagon. Tbf the woman asking brought it up, about baby ashes going missing
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Nov 4, 2015 13:32
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Antwan3K posted:Also talked about a Stalinist advisor apparently... Is that the one that supported Class War!? He should brush up on his leftist infighting... He means Seumus Milne, who as far as I can tell merely said that the number of people killed by Stalin has been steadily inflated over the years to make him look worse than he was. Which is somewhat true - historians use dubious calculations and often come up with death counts that would be impossible without depopulating entire swaths of Ukraine and Belarus.
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Nov 4, 2015 13:33
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J_RBG posted:Tbf the woman asking brought it up, about baby ashes going missing I'm fairly sure that when crematoria first started becoming a thing it was common to received mixed ashes anyway, so they could have just done that.
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Nov 4, 2015 13:39
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Guavanaut posted:Wasn't that more because the techniques used for cremating infants meant that there were no ashes that could be recovered in the first place? I thought that was still the case.
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Nov 4, 2015 13:43
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Not sure how that went over for Labour. The media seem to be reporting on the tories over the top jeering and how embarrassing it is for the party more than anything. Edit: Apparently the mics picked up Cameron saying 'its getting longer and longer' about PMQ's. Presumably because Bercow wont let the jeering take up time for actual questions.
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Nov 4, 2015 13:45
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serious gaylord posted:Not sure how that went over for Labour. The media seem to be reporting on the tories over the top jeering and how embarrassing it is for the party more than anything. Which party? I can easily see the papers running with "Labour get at jeered, are mortified", even though by rights that monkey show should embarrass the Tories more.
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Nov 4, 2015 13:57
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Probably because somebody in the media has figured out that acting like a bunch of chimps trying their best to squeeze out a poo poo to fling during constipation doesn't look particularly good when a nice old grandpa is asking questions put to him by vulnerable people. They're in danger of looking like cartoon super villains to a point where even the press can't ignore it.
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Nov 4, 2015 13:59
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How embarrassing it is for the Tories. Bercow is having none of their poo poo and it looks like they're teenagers with a supply teacher.
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Nov 4, 2015 13:59
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Guavanaut posted:Even when those independent private companies are public bureaucracies, as long as they're overseas so we don't have to look at them. The important thing is that the profit doesn't end up in the hands of the same state as the people that use it. Is this reverse colonialism, because I am very confused? Unfettered private business is what's important to a lot of them, so as long as the other states are acting as businesses (living the dream! UK PLC!) the competition and profits are wide open. It's like bringing states down to the same level as corporations I suppose if you want to be charitable you can say that they want tendering groups to compete to provide the best package for the best price, and the fact that the best offer comes from a state company isn't necessarily a contradiction of the 'state bureaucracy is poo poo' belief system. They'd probably argue that getting a good deal from someone like EDF means that the foreign government is actually subsidising their work for Britain's benefit, aren't we smart At the end of the day this policy is made by people connected with large businesses, who are probably intending to take or inherit a seat on a board once they're done in government, and the conservatives especially are about shrinking the state as much as possible in favour of private business taking over, so I guess it's more like capital colonialism. Multinational corporations conquering the state and all that What was with Corbyn's last question? Bit weird, I thought he was losing it with all the heckling
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Nov 4, 2015 14:03
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serious gaylord posted:I have a lot of friends who work in the medical records department for the local hospital here and they're currently undergoing an IT system upgrade so the records go from being paper to digital. Its massively over budget and doesn't work. They actually did go digital as far back as the late 90's, then everyone panicked with the whole Y2K bug bullshit, and set about converting everything back into paper again. Or at least that's what was going on up at LGI in the late 90's according to my Mum. Unsuprisingly, this cost millions, and the system the contractors put in place was absolutely useless. There's good reason she left the NHS, aside from 'we are promoting you to a job you can't do, rather than giving you a payrise at the one you're currently excelling at' to move into the Private Sector.
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Nov 4, 2015 14:04
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If you're wondering if things could have been better for Labour under the other contenders, here's what the second most left wing candidate has to say about the government having a mass surveillance of everyone's browser history.Andy Burnham posted:"government has been listening carefully. This is neither a snooper 's charter or a plan for mass surveillance" gently caress me running.
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Nov 4, 2015 14:15
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Are personal liberties and freedom from observation a left wing goal?
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Nov 4, 2015 14:19
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Pissflaps posted:Are personal liberties and freedom from observation a left wing goal? No. However, left authoritarianism isn't something any modern leftist actually wants (except maybe HorseLord) so it's reasonable to take an endorsement of authoritarian policy as a sign that a particular politician isn't really all that left-wing.
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Nov 4, 2015 14:27
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Pissflaps posted:Are personal liberties and freedom from observation a left wing goal? They have nothing to do with the left/right spectrum so the answer is 'sometimes'. I'd say the majority of mainstream left wingers in UK politics tend to be fairly libertarian on social issues so there's going to be a correlation today, but there are plenty of very obvious examples of authoritarian socialist countries. E: beaten
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