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Neo Rasa posted:Didn't this kind of sort of happen with Hellraiser also? They started making Hellraiser 2 the day 1 was released, because of the surprise massive buzz, but did so still assuming Claire Higgin's Julia character would be the big deal recurring nemesis for the series. Except afterwards Miramax/Dimension took over and uh uhm HAHAHAHAA You know I never really thought of Hellraiser 2 that way because personally I love the fact that it focuses on Julia. She's one of the more underrated horror villains because obviously she's overshadowed by Pinhead. But yea, much like the Halloween sequels, once the studio figured out that people wanted to see Pinhead everything went to poo poo because they didn't understand the idea of restraint.
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Nov 4, 2015 15:28
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Snowman_McK posted:Wasn't the original idea of the Halloween films that each would stand alone? Only the first would feature Michael Myers, then each would have their own villain/monster? Or am I getting mixed up? This was the idea, then the popularity of Jason made them try to duplicate it with Myers in Halloween 2, then they went back to the original idea with 3, then that wasn't received well so they went back to Myers. Also, Halloween 3 is fantastic. edit: goddammit, left the page open by accident Darko fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 15:44
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Darko posted:This was the idea, then the popularity of Jason made them try to duplicate it with Myers in Halloween 2, then they went back to the original idea with 3, then that wasn't received well so they went back to Myers. As far as what was in Carpenter's head when he made Halloween, it was to make a low-budget film and actually complete it and get it distributed and all that that stuff. Sequel or anthology never entered his mind until the movie took off, and that didn't happen until a few weeks after it was released. So there was no plan until the movie was a big hit, and by then it was clear audiences wanted more Michael Myers.
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Nov 4, 2015 16:21
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Basebf555 posted:As far as what was in Carpenter's head when he made Halloween, it was to make a low-budget film and actually complete it and get it distributed and all that that stuff. Sequel or anthology never entered his mind until the movie took off, and that didn't happen until a few weeks after it was released. So there was no plan until the movie was a big hit, and by then it was clear audiences wanted more Michael Myers. 2 was a direct response to Friday the 13th's popularity and not Halloween's really. That's also why it plays out pretty much like a Jason movie as opposed to Halloween 1, as well.
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Nov 4, 2015 16:30
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Darko posted:2 was a direct response to Friday the 13th's popularity and not Halloween's really. That's also why it plays out pretty much like a Jason movie as opposed to Halloween 1, as well. My point though was that nobody involved in the making of Halloween had any ideas that it could be some ongoing anthology series, they were just trying to figure out how to make a good looking, suspenseful film for cheap.
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Nov 4, 2015 16:33
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Basebf555 posted:My point though was that nobody involved in the making of Halloween had any ideas that it could be some ongoing anthology series, they were just trying to figure out how to make a good looking, suspenseful film for cheap. Oh yeah, i definitely agree. And my last post wasn't a zero sum thing. The point I was making was more that, after it hit, there were ideas for an anthology that got put on the backburner when other slashers, especially Jason became so popular.
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Nov 4, 2015 16:58
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Darko posted:Oh yeah, i definitely agree. And my last post wasn't a zero sum thing. The point I was making was more that, after it hit, there were ideas for an anthology that got put on the backburner when other slashers, especially Jason became so popular. I can imagine what was going on in the minds of the studio guys. After Halloween explodes and becomes a big hit they're thinking "this Carpenter guy is a genius, we gotta be involved in his next project, who gives a gently caress what it is just cut this guy a check!". Then after the success of Jason that discussion changes to "We have our own horror icon right here! We've got a franchise in the making, lets run with it!". Edit: Does that timeline really line up though? Was Jason really that popular when he had the burlap sack on his head? Friday the 13th Part 3 didn't come out until the year after Halloween 2. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 17:06
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Basebf555 posted:I can imagine what was going on in the minds of the studio guys. After Halloween explodes and becomes a big hit they're thinking "this Carpenter guy is a genius, we gotta be involved in his next project, who gives a gently caress what it is just cut this guy a check!". Then after the success of Jason that discussion changes to "We have our own horror icon right here! We've got a franchise in the making, lets run with it!". It was a response to the first movie and the sequel (which was released in the same year). It was basically, "we'll out Friday the 13th Ft13th (and other slashers released like The Burning) with our own slasher killer, and add a bunch more kills in more inventive ways like that movie did!"
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Nov 4, 2015 17:17
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Basebf555 posted:You know I never really thought of Hellraiser 2 that way because personally I love the fact that it focuses on Julia. She's one of the more underrated horror villains because obviously she's overshadowed by Pinhead. Waste of potential too, I mean Clive Barker's "thing" in his own work is that the monsters in them can talk and have a society, rules, politics, feelings, and generally be fleshed out characters. After what goes down in Hellraiser 2 making a movie focusing on how Pinhead rolls isn't a terrible idea, but Miramax really specifically wanted to tap into the schlockier Nightmare on Elm Street sequels and turn Pinhead into a Freddy Kruger/Jason style franchise which was like the dumbest thing ever for that character since it meant turning him into a one note "oh hey a place that isn't like hell let's start torturing folks" with one liners and stuff instead of the more disciplined zealot we see in 1 and 2. Doug Bradley is so amazing that he still almost still sells it even in some of the worst movies but given their convoluted productions (IIRC they were all z-level horror scripts that only got made because they shoehorned Pinhead in in some small way in each, Hellworld is the best example, the Hellraiser themed MMO they play was made in very short order to add into the movie which is why it looks like it's from 1993) and stuff he didn't have a whole lot to work with. Hellraiser: Bloodlines is the worst though because of the potential. Someone saw the unfinished work print and wrote about it in the Halloween challenge thread I think? Apparently the Angela character actually had a bigger role in the movie instead of just sort of disappearing, and her feud with Pinhead is a bit more pronounced. Pinhead is obsessed and drunk with power while Angela is more like Pinhead in the first movie. The narrative was also linear instead of being presented via flashbacks, with the entire future segment meant to be a surprise at the end of the movie. I have to watch it some time as it probably doesn't fix everything wrong with Bloodlines but it at least sounds like the director had a clue compared to what was actually edited and released after he left. Pinhead in space ended up being how the film was marketed, I remember a lot of posters, tv spots, etc. for it where they're made to make you think the entire movie is set in the far future. To bring it back to Halloween, that was actually something seriously considered for Michael Meyers at one point too, I want to say as early as the late 80s. I think it got tossed around a lot so for horror franchises so it's interesting that the Leprechaun, Pinhead, and Jason are the only ones * to have made it off world. *Now you're remembering that Dracula 3000 exists, you're welcome. :P Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 17:39
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computer parts posted:Part of it's time of release. No one's clamoring to see Cowboys vs Aliens either although they probably were around the time it was coming out. Goddamn how does the guy who made Iron Man and Swingers gently caress up "Indiana Jones and 007 punch aliens in the old west" Like it still boggles my mind how that movie, with a completely un-gently caress-upable premise, came out so bad.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:28
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Hbomberguy posted:I never thought of it that way. I just don't have much to say about it. What interests me about the film will interest like, no one else here. No one wants to read my posts about canon stuff.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:58
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CelticPredator posted:I just don't have much to say about it. What interests me about the film will interest like, no one else here. No one wants to read my posts about canon stuff. I do, the canon stuff is fun and way more interesting than anything hbomberguy says.
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Nov 4, 2015 20:19
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I'd prefer you didn't censor yourself if it meant writing meaningless content. Write what you feel, bro
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Nov 4, 2015 20:20
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Well then I'd like to re-watch the movie again, and try and write something nice. (It's been a good while, actually!)
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Nov 4, 2015 20:24
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Good thing Prometheus is about stealing fire.
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Nov 4, 2015 20:46
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Yeah cuz they burned the audience with that movie. Up high!
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Nov 4, 2015 21:01
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Any issues people have with Prometheus contradicting established Alien "canon" are easily explained by the Weyland Corporation being a very big, unscrupulous, generally shady company. In other words, there aren't actually any real contradictions.
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Nov 4, 2015 21:09
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Basebf555 posted:Any issues people have with Prometheus contradicting established Alien "canon" are easily explained by the Weyland Corporation being a very big, unscrupulous, generally shady company. In other words, there aren't actually any real contradictions. 1. The Prometheus was a top of the line experimental science ship, the Nostromo was a workhorse space-tugboat 2. The Nostromo is actually older than the Prometheus by about a decade if I remember right This gets slightly harder to swallow when you compare Prometheus with Aliens, set 57 years after Alien and featuring an allegedly top of the line military starship, but it still doesn't bother me really. I guess you could say Prometheus "contradicts" Alien by retconning the Space Jockey into a giant on a suit but that problem goes away once you realize they're not the same thing.
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Nov 4, 2015 22:02
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Tenzarin posted:Good thing Prometheus is about stealing fire. Just what do you think the black goo is? e: I mean it's pretty straightforward. Weyland calls the ship Prometheus because he wants to steal the secret of eternal life ("fire" as an animating spark) from God. What he gets is a wildfire that consumes everything around him. Party Boat fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 22:10
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Basebf555 posted:Any issues people have with Prometheus contradicting established Alien "canon" are easily explained by the Weyland Corporation being a very big, unscrupulous, generally shady company. In other words, there aren't actually any real contradictions. I have no problems with the continuity.
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Nov 4, 2015 22:42
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Party Boat posted:Just what do you think the black goo is? His wax wings begin to melt
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Nov 4, 2015 22:48
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I'm actually relieved that Blomkamp's fan fiction movie got scrapped. It's quite apparent that it was most likely going to end up as the Terminator Genisys of the Alien franchise: stupid retcon plot, elderly protagonist as an action hero (seriously, grandma Ripley fighting Aliens?), and most likely a lovely script considering Blomkamp was writing it as well. Any attempt to remake Aliens will inevitably be a dismal failure. I'm glad 20th Century Fox got some sanity here. Just let the Alien Franchise focused on the Xenomorph's end with Alien Resurrection. Its been overdone. At least Prometheus and its sequels offer something new.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:04
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Basebf555 posted:The irony is basically described in the post I quoted above. This big mystery of the space jockey captured our imaginations for such a long time, and we begged for answers. But when we finally were given the answers, they weren't satisfying. This is exactly what happens in the movie. Also, the fact that the aliens themselves have been so overused, overexposed and run into the ground that it's essentially impossible to take them seriously or make them scary.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:29
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Snowman_McK posted:Also, the fact that the aliens themselves have been so overused, overexposed and run into the ground that it's essentially impossible to take them seriously or make them scary. Gonna strongly disagree there. The comics and video games have done an admirable job of making them scary. It's a matter of knowing how and when to use them (or not use them), and the balancing act of introducing new elements that keep them weird and interesting without "explaining" them to death.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:39
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Xenomrph posted:Gonna strongly disagree there. The comics and video games have done an admirable job of making them scary. It's a matter of knowing how and when to use them (or not use them),  The creature is utterly over-exposed. It's too ubiquitous to do unironically. It would be like trying to sincerely recreate the shower scene from "Psycho" or the beach scene in "From Here to Eternity" quote:and the balancing act of introducing new elements that keep them weird and interesting without "explaining" them to death.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:54
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Snowman_McK posted:
I own this and it is wonderful.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:58
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Steve2911 posted:I own this and it is wonderful. I have one of Deadpool because I'm a terrible nerd.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:02
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Snowman_McK posted:
You say this but that looks loving terrifying to me.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:02
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As much as I want "more aliens" as a mindless fan and consumer I'm kinda happy Blompkoff's alien is canceled or at least on the extreme back burner. Alien 3 is really good and my gut was telling me this new one was just going to be a bunch of awful revisionist fan-service that probably ends up missing the point. I mean if you don't think alien 3 (assembly) is good you don't really "get" alien. That said it's impossible and unfair to pre-judge these things so harshly. Maybe he'd make a really good movie that stood on it's own and was so good it wouldn't trigger any "but but alien 3 is canon!" feelings. But it would probably be "Aliens: 2, moar pulse rifles and references"
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Nov 5, 2015 00:05
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Steve2911 posted:I own this and it is wonderful. Snowman_McK posted:
Even though AvP2000 is 15 years old, the Aliens are so fast, vicious, and unpredictable that the game is still scary as gently caress to this day. Alien Isolation came out last year to large acclaim and scared the gently caress out of people. Critics flat out said, "yep, this game proves that the Alien can still be scary".
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Nov 5, 2015 00:10
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Xenomrph posted:I do, too. Merchandise is meaningless, they make retro-style figurines of the characters from Pulp Fiction but it doesn't make the movie any less loving awesome. And I'm glad authors managed to find new ways to do it (in 1994) and I'm glad there's a couple of good video games. But it becomes a whole lot harder to make something scary when you know exactly what it looks like and how many hit-points it has. As evidenced by the many, many, many failed attempts. It suggests that the monster itself isn't what's making those examples good.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:19
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No matter how overused they have been, to this day they give me the willies worse than any monster from any other film or medium. I often had to stop playing Isolation for a few minutes or hours just to calm down, and I'm in my mid-40s.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:27
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Snowman_McK posted:That doesn't quite work as a comparison since that film is largely about our relationship with pop-culture. It doesn't depend on us only getting occasional underlit looks at Vince and Jules. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, we've got stuff release within the last year that people found scary and compelling. You're saying that making the Alien scary simply can't be done... but it has been done. If you want the Alien to scare you again, check out the stuff I mentioned if you haven't already. poo poo, if you've got a Steam account I'll even put my money where my mouth is and buy you a copy of AvP for $5. Worst case, you don't enjoy it/aren't scared, I'm out $5, no hard feelings. I agree that the Alien CAN be overexposed, but I'd take it on a case by case basis. The games and whatnot I mentioned know that the gamer knows what an Alien looks like, so it keeps the Alien hidden and/or unpredictable, so even when you see it, you don't know how to react. I agree that pop culture exposure makes the author/artist/creator's job more difficult, but I still think the Alien is far from a lost cause. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Nov 5, 2015 |
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Nov 5, 2015 00:29
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Aliens don't have to be scary to be interesting. And they're still plenty interesting.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:35
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Isolations the most anxiety causing game I've played, I felt a real feeling of dread as that bastard prowled around. If they further perfect the fear factor in VR games, I can see people ending up dead. It'll probably be fantastic advertising.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:41
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Alien scared the poo poo out of me in a non jumpy way when it was outside that little girls bedroom in a movie I cant remember and it kills her dad.
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Nov 5, 2015 01:00
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Party Boat posted:Just what do you think the black goo is? He didnt even attempt to steal the fire, he failed to ask for the fire. poo poo story bro, you really need to check your privilege.
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Nov 5, 2015 01:23
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But seriously guys, what is the black goo? Can't believe they never explained that.
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Nov 5, 2015 01:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avXZVgzLP68
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Nov 5, 2015 01:40
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Those were both terrible.
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Nov 5, 2015 01:43
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