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Can anyone post a pic of a DIN vs DIN and yoke connection? I am trying to decide which to order..
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Nov 2, 2015 20:45
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DIN is superior to Yoke under every regard, and DIN regulators can be converted to the yoke system if you need. Get DIN.
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Nov 2, 2015 22:38
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Cippalippus posted:DIN is superior to Yoke under every regard, and DIN regulators can be converted to the yoke system if you need. Get DIN. I understand I may need to go to din sooner or later. That said, I am under the impression that the adapter isn't ideal due to its added length. Alternatively, and likely, I am being a bit of a nit picky goon worrying about the extra length..
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Nov 2, 2015 23:38
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Cippalippus posted:DIN is superior to Yoke under every regard, and DIN regulators can be converted to the yoke system if you need. Get DIN. Can you elaborate exactly why it's better? I've always wondered myself.
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Nov 3, 2015 01:29
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I was also under the assumption that yoke is way more common.
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Nov 3, 2015 01:33
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DIN can handle higher pressures and has a lower profile so the stage does not get in the way when you're playing with custom setups. Yoke is easier to connect, can handle the pressure normal tanks use, and is the recreational standard in North America. I personally use both. I have 4 tech first stages (two back gas, two deco), and a single tank setup with a yoke first stage. Din to yoke connectors are easy and cheap but it adds failure points and can be awkward to use. I'd say yoke is the way to go, and if for whatever reason you want to convert the regulator to yoke, you can order the parts for most models
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Nov 3, 2015 03:01
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Quick answer: Adapted DIN regulators while completely dive-able, tend to keep the diver from looking forward while diving. I hate not being able to extend my neck forward when diving. So I personally would not travel with DIN regs. Personally, other than my sidemounted tanks, I never use DIN, because even for me DIN is a hassle, and I work as a diver. I would fairly strongly recommend yoke for a (Caribbean and Pacific) traveling diver, and for most local divers in general. In the Caribbean and Pacific, yoke is more common to the point that most divers have never seen a DIN reg or tank. When I teach, I always sling a side tank with a DIN reg at some point just so people can say they have seen one. More complete answer: In travel in the Pacific and the Caribbean, you are going to have trouble regularly finding DIN tanks, so you will be using adaptors on your DIN regs (and you will have to bring the adaptors, yourself). SInce adapting out the DIN regs will make the regs' first stage stand out further from the valve, you get the above problem where the fist stage bangs into the back of your head. Since the first stage is longer, it also make a longer lever arm out of the first stage, making the dislodging in the yoke valve tank O-Ring more likely than using a plain yoke first stage. Overall a low risk. But if the security of the DIN to DIN fitting is a reason to think about choosing DIN for some people, it's working the wrong way to end up using a less secure system because you chose DIN, and have to adapt it almost every time you use to actually go diving. If you are diving only your own gear, and your own tanks, match your own system. In fact, if a DIN reg is on a DIN valve, it is lower profile than a yoke system, and only cluttered on one side, and unadapted, it is a much more secure system. But if you are traveling in the Americas and the Pacific, DIN will make things a logistics hassle to some extent. And if you are using an adapted DIN reg on a yoke valve, it ends up being less secure than plain yoke, less comfortable in the back of the head and it will change your body position, and heavier because of having to carry the adaptor around. DIN traps the O-RIng deep down inside a seriously strong fitting exposed only down deep to environment, and the O-ring lives on the first stage. Yoke O-Rings are constantly exposed to environment, and lives on the tank which is always exposed to environment. But then again, your whole regulator system is made with O-rings constantly exposed to environment. That is in fact the role of most of the O-Rings in a regulator system: keep out environment. Tech divers who choose their own gear from the regs to the tanks use DIN almost exclusively for the lower profile, and more secure O-Ring mounting. But we also over-fill tanks to twice their working pressure sometimes, so we need the DIN's higher pressure rating. And for sidemount, the DIN reg to DIN valve makes for a cleaner attachment point, because the screw in DIN style means the back of the tank valve is clear of the yoke knob and such. All that said, diving is mostly about a dream of who you might be, and if getting DIN regs, (even if you have to adapt them out most/all of them time) keeps a dream of great ocean exploration alive, then dream on. Also worth knowing that you can buy yoke first stages now, and switch almost any first stage to DIN later.
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Nov 3, 2015 03:13
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In a nutshell - the location of the O-ring is different. DIN adapters don't have the o-ring exposed to the environment. As such, you don't have to worry about a shoddy connection that could leak air, have the o-ring blow out accidentally, have the o-ring fail due to sand/dirt on the connection. Are these reasons enough for every diver to switch to DIN? Depends. The general advice is to use DIN if you're using your own tanks or doing specialty diving (decompression, high pressure tanks, cave, wreck, etc) in which you require the extra safety factor. If you're using the resort's or dive shop's tanks and only doing open water non-decompression diving, then yoke is fine. edit: beaten twice.  Why is yoke more common? Back in the 50s, Poseidon was the lone company using the DIN adapter which was based in Europe and generally stayed in Europe. The US was instrumental in spreading recreational scuba across the globe and they were using the j-valve/k-valve o-ring adapter. DIN didn't gain traction until cave divers made it more popular due to Poseidon becoming a mainstay company for the tech market.  Bangkero fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 03:25
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I appreciate the answers and will work with the dive shop (DGE) to get a yoke set up.
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Nov 3, 2015 03:41
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Bangkero posted:DIN adapters don't have the o-ring exposed to the environment. That's not really true. There are not naked-eye visible being 'down there', but they are exposed to the environment just like a yoke tank O-Ring (or for that matter most of the hose and reg o-rings). A blown DIN O-ring, (or more usually, trapped hair, sand, or corrosion on the tank valve side seating face) leaks air just like a yoke O-ring. So the non diving environmental exposure happens, as well as the diving exposure, because it is directly exposed to sea water, assuming ocean. The biggest security advantage of DIN likely has mostly to do with DIN tanks usually being personally owned tanks so they are less likely to be as heavily used yoke rental tanks. All heavily used gear is more prone to failure of all kinds. When I am heavily using DIN regs in big deep diving runs, they tend to have just the same level of O-rings blows and bubbling as Yoke O-Rings. In other words, not all that common. We in general just use yokes much much more so the uncommon probably just occurs more frequently. I know that a DIN tank that gets dropped on its head, usually requires the valve to be swapped out (unless the donut is in it) because the thread walls have a lot less metal than a yoke valve. (Why the Sherwood Genesis DIN Only valves are getting harder and harder to find, and also why the Sherwood Yoke Valves tend to last so long) Yoke valves are often massaged back into usage, by a tank guy scraping away metal to re-round the valve face. So that fake fixing a yoke valve backing into service makes yoke less secure in practice, too. But that gets back into rental versus owned thing, too.
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Nov 3, 2015 04:05
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pupdive posted:That's not really true. There are not naked-eye visible being 'down there', but they are exposed to the environment just like a yoke tank O-Ring (or for that matter most of the hose and reg o-rings). A blown DIN O-ring, (or more usually, trapped hair, sand, or corrosion on the tank valve side seating face) leaks air just like a yoke O-ring. So the non diving environmental exposure happens, as well as the diving exposure, because it is directly exposed to sea water, assuming ocean.
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Nov 3, 2015 04:32
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I think we all agree that yoke is a solid and safe choice for most people. When for whatever reason I have to use a DIN to yoke adapter on a tank it's bulky and awkward. In lots of places you're only going to find yoke tanks. Finally, buy a good first stage and the conversion kit to DIN is cheap and easy for a gear tech to install. Which is funny because you couldn't pay me to use a yoke on doubles or stage tanks, but the realty is yoke works better for most people. Bishop fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 04:35
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Yoke isn't more common everywhere; none of the German/Swiss/Italian guys and girls that I've dived with in the last years (Mediterranean) use it. Of course the safety of the gear you use depends on its maintenance, but Din is the safer option.
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Nov 3, 2015 08:14
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It'll depend on location. In Europe DIN is available pretty much everywhere, in the Americas it's not that common. SEA has a pretty good mix and most shops I went with had then available but I did need to check before I rocked up. Personally I prefer DIN but it's worth bearing in mind that if you're using yoke and need to convert you can screw a little insert into the tank. The reverse requires a large yoke adapter that undoes the advantages of DIN. Go for the one you prefer, I've got DIN but my diving is mostly UK again now with my own gear. I think yoke makes more sense for you but if you really like the idea of DIN get that and just use an adapter when you need to.
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Nov 3, 2015 12:30
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Bishop posted:Which is funny because you couldn't pay me to use a yoke on doubles or stage tanks, but the realty is yoke works better for most people. {tech dweeb talk on} Really arcane and needlessly tech dweeby, (but that's part of why many people get interested in tech diving: to obsess about gear, gear choices, and argue about arcane points that really don't matter.) Some number of people argue for use of yoke for the O2/deco regs because swapping out a yoke first stage is quicker, especially underwater. And on a second note, if all you got for tanks is whatever's left on the boat to swap to, depending on the place, that is more likely to be yoke. I have not thought these through all the permutations, because I think it sort of assumes back mount doubles, and two front mounted yoke deco regs to make much compelling sense. I'd agree with the first idea in theory in some sense, because getting two regs swapped underwater out in one breath cycle with DIN is pretty dang hard, because of the distance you have to drive the DIN thread in, and the space you have to spin the DIN thread handle in. With Yoke it's much easier since it's only a turn or two of a big end mounted knob to pinch down. If the second idea (using other people's tanks in a pinch) was a driving factor for me, I'd just dive with a bigger team or better support. If I thought I might need more gas, I'd make the gas happen on the team or the support rather than hope for help for a random person/tank. But neither idea is particularly compelling for me, since I am diving solo on basically all my tech dives (which means reason two is not compelling for me in any form), and I am diving sidemount anyway, which means I will never *have* to swap the first stage on a live reg (live as meaning the reg I am actually breathing from at the time of the switch.) One of the nicest aspects of sidemount is that feathering a valve to breathe through a freeflow, or a main DIN/Yoke tank O-Ring blow is pretty easy. And the main("Back") and deco first stages are all available to play with, so there is never going to be a need to time out a reg switch so as to fit into a single breathing cycle, since you can always switch to one "back" reg, and swap out the other "back" first stage and deco first stage while breathing regularly from the other back reg. None of these above issues are particular real world for anyone. I have done all the switches underwater to see how things worked, and that how I found that the yoke first stage is much quicker and easy to manage, particularly on the live reg. It's easy to do a full first stage switch on the live yoke regs and tanks. DIN is kind of hard, to near impossible, to switch the live reg on a single breathing cycle. But I have only ever *had* to do a first stage switch underwater one time for real, and that was really just because I did not want to deal with a fairly minor issue of the main deco reg. I had the regs and the tanks, and I was going to be doing another hour of deco so I made the first stage switch on the deco tank from the faulty deco reg one of the "back" regs. Almost everyone is going to be doing their tech dives with a team which makes most of the above talk not really important. But tech discussions are almost always arcane discussions about things that never happen. Yoke versus DIN is kind of along that spectrum. All my tech gear is DIN, and all my recreational (non side-mounted) gear is yoke, and I made both choices on strictly logistical and form factor grounds. And not at all on security grounds, because I expect gear to fail, regardless. Making it less likely just means that it will be even more unexpected when it happens, in some senses. {/tech dweeb talk off} Every bit of gear fails if you dive long enough, even brand new and/or perfectly maintained gear, but the most annoying and the hardest to deal with failures are still the ones bugging Open Water students from day one: mask problems (particularly straps/clip) , and mouthpiece problems. The number of people who worry about DIN versus yoke, but then don't carry spare mouthpieces and spare masks on every dive is kind of amazing to me. pupdive fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 15:13
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pupdive posted:{tech dweeb talk on} Amusingly enough this is a large component of why I'm not a tech diver. I'm an engineer, and the religious arguments about gear are insufferable.
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Nov 3, 2015 21:11
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Has anyone dove Truk? I'm thinking that would be an amazing dive, but I've heard different things about it and the Internet is a bit weird. Some people have told me it's by lottery only, some have told me it's live aboard only and the Internet acts like we can just go there. What's the real deal?
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Nov 5, 2015 05:50
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I just went there in August. I'm currently (slowly) editing my photos. When I'm done (in 3 months) I'll make a big post detailing the whole trip. In short, you can go. It is a very poor country, and I recommend you do a liveaboard. I went with the S.S. Thorfinn. I was the ONLY guest on the boat, and for some reason there were almost no other divers on the sites. It was me and my guide, and the tender captain. Visibility there is pretty poor, and the weather was spotty. The wrecks were loving awesome though. I loved it. The Thorfinn's data cap was horrendous. I was limited to 70 MEGS for free for my 1 week. Excess charges were really really pricey. Trivia fucked around with this message at 08:39 on Nov 5, 2015 |
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Nov 5, 2015 08:32
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DeadlyMuffin posted:Amusingly enough this is a large component of why I'm not a tech diver. I'm an engineer, and the religious arguments about gear are insufferable. As an ex-engineer, this is one of those things that I don't really miss. Well, with the recent happenings in Egypt, there goes my plans for a vacation in Marsa Alam. 
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Nov 6, 2015 00:27
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I've got a friend who when he was doing his 4th year medic placements really, really enjoyed his time in the anaesthetics department as it was so similar to tech dive planning. Also as a general appeal, I'm going to finally get my instructor qualifications probably early next year (currenty I'm qualified to teach theory and teach supervised in the pool or assist in open water. This has been the case for about 4 years now) and I know there are some really experienced and professional instructors in this thread. I've got some great people training me but more perspectives are always helpful. Basically what advice would you give to a new or about to qualify instructor in terms of teaching? Obviously some advice will vary depending on agency (and in my case club practices and standards vary from even the national agency) but I'm of the opinion that there's a reason why people do things a certain way and just because it's different doesn't mean it's wrong.
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Nov 7, 2015 01:51
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Any of you guys ever get LASIK? I had my eyes corrected on Monday, and I'm wondering how long I have to wait before I can wear my mask... 1 month? 2 months?
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Nov 7, 2015 01:54
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Squashy Nipples posted:Any of you guys ever get LASIK? This is most definitely an ask your doctor question, but I know an instructor couple who got surgery for a dive trip, just before that dive trip. (1 week, roughly ). Not something I would do, but that's not saying I have any rationale for my possibly ill-informed opinion, and they did get advice from their physician. I know a bunch of casual instructors who had it done, and have nothing but good things to say about their decision. All of the full time instructors who got it done that come to mind at the moment all had it done before becoming instructors. DAN (Divers Alert Network) is the usual go-to place because they are the only non-military collector of dive accident (incident) regarding medical and diving interactions. They are the people who inform decisions on time to wait before flying, and what medical conditions are absolute or temporary contraindications. pupdive fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 03:01
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New instructors have a tendency to abuse their new found authority to make diving less interesting for students, not more fun.MrNemo posted:Obviously some advice will vary depending on agency (and in my case club practices and standards vary from even the national agency) but I'm of the opinion that there's a reason why people do things a certain way and just because it's different doesn't mean it's wrong. I would break that sentence down into components and think about it from every possible angle. There are Agency Standards, RSTC Standards, and local shop/club folkways. I can go longer if you want.
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Nov 7, 2015 04:26
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Squashy Nipples posted:Any of you guys ever get LASIK? wearing your mask is irrelevant, you should care about pressure and like pupdive said, DAN has had a lot of questions about this http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/faq/Diving_After_Lasik_Surgery
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Nov 7, 2015 05:43
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jackyl posted:wearing your mask is irrelevant, you should care about pressure and like pupdive said, DAN has had a lot of questions about this There is also an alternative procedure out there, PRK. These don't cut a flap in your eyeball so they don't weaken the cornea. The recovery is worse than LASIK but for me it was worth it, just in case. Theoretically this should be safer for diving... but I'm sure there are thousands of people diving every day that had LASIK and don't experience any issues. http://www.diversalertnetwork.org/medical/faq/Photorefractive_Keratectomy
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Nov 7, 2015 18:59
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pupdive posted:This is most definitely an ask your doctor question, but I know an instructor couple who got surgery for a dive trip, just before that dive trip. (1 week, roughly ). I did, and he kind of bunted: "no exertion for two weeks. Salt water is good for eyes after two weeks, but stay out of pools, they are filthy". I'm 5 days in now, and while my eyes are starting to feel great, diving after one week seems utterly insane. jackyl posted:wearing your mask is irrelevant, you should care about pressure and like pupdive said, DAN has had a lot of questions about this Great link, thanks! However, wearing the mask is hardly irrelevant, I said it that way on purpose. While the pressure obviously depends on depth, suction is worse for your cornea flaps then pressure, so just taking your mask on and off for snorkeling/shallow dives is a risk. SuitcasePimp posted:There is also an alternative procedure out there, PRK. These don't cut a flap in your eyeball so they don't weaken the cornea. The recovery is worse than LASIK but for me it was worth it, just in case. Interesting! My clinic was very informative about the pros/cons of the two procedures, but that point never came up. Once they decided I was a good candidate for LASIK, it was pretty much a forgone conclusion.
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Nov 7, 2015 19:08
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pupdive posted:New instructors have a tendency to abuse their new found authority to make diving less interesting for students, not more fun. I'm diving in a club environment, no professional stuff so instructors are purely volunteers. The atmosphere generally there is really good and I've been in teaching situations for a number of years so I'm not overly worried about abusing authority. Also there's a load of instructors at the moment so students get swapped round quite frequently to share the load. Everyone socialises together and it doesn't seem like a club that has any elitism or anything worse than the normal pleasant disagreements you get when people are trying to best coordinate the activities of a lot of people. Regarding the different standards, I'm aware there differences. Apparently I wasn't aware of the RSTC because my national club isn't associated with them. I know that those standards are there, typically, for a reason and that whether I think the reason is suitable for a situation or not I'll need to follow them in certain situations (national agency standards for examinations, club standards when in my club, unless I can persuade others that there's a good reason for doing it that way, etc.) When you say you can go on do you mean regarding all the different standards that exist? I've seen some great advice in this thread regarding instructing, things like re-emphasizing issues students can have into a positive. A leaky mask isn't something that should upset them because it's a good opportunity to get really comfortable with mask clearing. Basically trying to take the fear/frustration out of things like that. Also getting students to get the mask and stuff on and just keep it on by the side of the pool in order for them to get comfortable with the equipment. My question was really more for teaching/training tips to help get students comfortable and teaching methods for improving skills.
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Nov 8, 2015 09:53
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Squashy Nipples posted:
don't use a snorkel mask when diving? Even that doesn't cause outward pressure on your eyeballs at mask removal e: assuming you remove your snorkel mask at basically the same altitude you put in on, maybe you are doing some cool dive where you start on top of mt McKinley and dive to the equator then use hydraulics to take your perfectly air tight mask off? e2: just looked at your posts, dude pay for DAN, worst case scenario you get a cool magazine every quarter let it mellow fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 05:56
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jackyl posted:e2: just looked at your posts, dude pay for DAN, worst case scenario you get a cool magazine every quarter Thanks, I'll look into it. I do sort of miss printed magazines.
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Nov 12, 2015 12:57
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How does everyone travel with their gear on international flights? I plan on carrying regs and computers in carry on. The rest I hope to shove into a rolling duffle?
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Nov 15, 2015 17:50
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Same here. Everything else can cope with being bashed about a bit, regs and computers I do not want to risk having something heavy dropped on. If I was taking an expensive torch that would probably also get taken in carry on even if it can result in a lot of interest from security.
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Nov 15, 2015 20:29
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Ropes4u posted:How does everyone travel with their gear on international flights? That's pretty much exactly what I do except I also carry on masks. Computers happen to fit really well in a mask box if you aren't wearing it, and you can pack in a few paris of underwear in there too usually... no voids go unfilled! The rest goes into one of these: http://www.ebags.com/product/the-north-face/wayfinder-30/152207 . Fins are on edge along either side for support, booties on what is the bottom when it's standing, and BC in the middle filled up with wetsuit. This leaves a ton of space for spillover clothes, sausage, etc. When they are full they typically weigh in the low 30s so there is plenty of weight to play with before extra charges kick in.
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Nov 15, 2015 20:43
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I'm hoping to fit everything for my wife and I in a patagucci Blackhole or Eddie Bauer rolling duffle. We have simple glass and brass gauge and wear a wrist computer that we will wear on the flight.
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Nov 15, 2015 22:43
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Ropes4u posted:How does everyone travel with their gear on international flights? We actually check it all, and wrap the reg/computers in the bcd and wetsuits in a half of our large hardshells. The the other half has our clothes for the week in shrink bags and there's another check bag with toiletries and miscellaneous stuff. If I wasn't a delta gold or better every year though, we would probably change how we do it so my advice might be useless sorry. I will say that international flights give you one free check bag? I think? I get two domestic and three to the Caribbean, 4 to Europe so that's probably right. Get a hard shell, take it to about 48 pounds since you will have water weight on the way home and go from there.
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Nov 19, 2015 02:44
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Safety alert from a local dive shop - a staff member was seriously injured while filling when the valve blew off a tank a couple of weeks ago. Investigations are ongoing, but the suspected cause is a subtle difference between metric and imperial threads on the valve and tank which appear to fit, but are actually substantially weaker. Can be an issue when dealing with cylinders and valves from different parts of the world. Be safe with compressed air people!
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Nov 21, 2015 02:30
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Dive Right In posted a Black Friday sale. The Hog D3 / Zenith sale is swinging me away from the Zeagle F8s I was going to order.
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Nov 21, 2015 12:49
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Hey there. I'm a military diver and thought I'd introduce myself rather than just reading the thread. Feel free to ask military related questions, I'll do my best to answer them.SuitcasePimp posted:There is also an alternative procedure out there, PRK. These don't cut a flap in your eyeball so they don't weaken the cornea. The recovery is worse than LASIK but for me it was worth it, just in case. For the longest time, PRK was the only surgery we allowed for divers and freefall guys, just because it's less harsh on the eye. Recently, policy has been changed so you can get waivers, but I'd still recommend PRK (I am a PRK recipient). Recovery isn't *that* bad, we just have guys not jump or dive for a month post procedure.
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Nov 24, 2015 05:55
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Gear question: I haven't been diving for a few years now and my gear (BCD, reg) have been collecting dust. They were only used for about a dozen dives and purchased new. Should I get maintenance done on the reg, change out o-rings and the such, or are they gonna be fine? (I know it's life-support equipment, I honestly don't know what the decay on those o-rings are like)
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Nov 25, 2015 01:27
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Bought my wife and I a complete set of Hog D3's & Zenith regulators at the Dive right In Scuba black friday. Just need a knife and a thigh pocket to call it done…..
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Nov 25, 2015 02:29
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MA-Horus posted:Gear question: The manufacturer should specify how often maintenance should be performed. For regulators it's normally yearly though there are some models that are every two years.
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Nov 25, 2015 10:40
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