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rscott
Dec 10, 2009
Calibrate your torque wrenches every year, you can send them out and it shouldn't cost more than $50 or so to get them adjusted.

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Queen_Combat
Jan 15, 2011
But I keep buying Tekton torque wrenches for $15

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

rscott posted:

Calibrate your torque wrenches every year, you can send them out and it shouldn't cost more than $50 or so to get them adjusted.

Send out to a non-branded service? Can you name one? There seem to be so many generic sites.

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

If I really wanted to know if my torque wrench was right I'd buy one of these so I could calibrate in house: http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-ARM60...e+wrench+tester

Also, the screw pins that hold the rotor on are to make it easier to line up the wheel for the bolts. Volvos have those by default but most custom wheels can't accommodate them so they get taken out immediately. Lining up the bolt holes is a pain in the rear end without them.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

LloydDobler posted:

Also, the screw pins that hold the rotor on are to make it easier to line up the wheel for the bolts. Volvos have those by default but most custom wheels can't accommodate them so they get taken out immediately. Lining up the bolt holes is a pain in the rear end without them.

Ferrari wisely put a lip on the hub, so things are easy enough once you manage to get the rim centered enough to get onto the lip. From there, lining up the bolt holes is academic.

quote:

If I really wanted to know if my torque wrench was right I'd buy one of these so I could calibrate in house: http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-ARM60...e+wrench+tester

If the calibration is off, how do you adjust a torque wrench? Is there a service port that hides an adjustment screw?

rscott
Dec 10, 2009
Calibrating them is fiddly work, there are springs you have to adjust to get them in spec. We send our stuff to a local gauge and inspection company, not sure who would work for you in your area.

Bajaha
Apr 1, 2011

BajaHAHAHA.



kimbo305 posted:

It's odd, but it's real. You can also get really fancy sockets for the chrome heads:
http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?cPath=600_100037&products_id=261093

Don't they make the same design but without the fancy metal and it's much cheaper? I swear I've seen sockets that have the corner voids to prevent rounding off bolts as well.

As for torque wrench chat, the calibration shouldn't be wildly out of spec after a year, I'd hope, barring physical damage from being thrown on a concrete floor or sorting it in your nice exotic salt water fish tank. Unless you're doing engine work or very critical suspension/drivetrain work, an uncalibrated torque wrench should be ok I'd think.

Don't know how much that approach translates to exotic ownership though :v:

Dave Inc.
Nov 26, 2007
Let's have a drink!

kimbo305 posted:

Ferrari wisely put a lip on the hub, so things are easy enough once you manage to get the rim centered enough to get onto the lip. From there, lining up the bolt holes is academic.

For the 996, Porsche provided a stud you could thread into one hole for alignment, then take out once you had the other bolts in. I liked that setup.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Bajaha posted:

Unless you're doing engine work or very critical suspension/drivetrain work, an uncalibrated torque wrench should be ok I'd think.

I have a really lovely beam torque wrench I could use to compare. A while back, I used the Snap-on to torque the Z06's lugnuts to 100 ft-lbs. Lately, the only thing I've torqued is a cassette to a bike wheel, and that's only 30-40 ft-lbs. The 75 ft-lb setting felt closer in my mind to the 30 than the 100. But numerically, it's right in between, so I guess it's not suspect, going off of a memory of sensation.

I might have set the Snap-on down hard once, but usually I take care to treat it carefully. Always stored at room temp.

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

kimbo305 posted:

Ferrari wisely put a lip on the hub, so things are easy enough once you manage to get the rim centered enough to get onto the lip. From there, lining up the bolt holes is academic.

What's funny is that I used to remove those screws and just toss them, until I got a decent car with rotors and hubs that were so corrosion free that the rotor could spin on the hub fairly easily. So when trying to line up my wheel, as soon as I touched the hub it would spin inside the rotor and now nothing is lined up and !@#$%#!

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Been under the weather and waking up at odd hours. Didn't feel great but wanted to see what changes if any the spaced out rears caused to handling. It's hard to tell -- every time I get in the car, the shifting is easier than I remember, the ride quality is smoother and less squeaky, and the steering is more precise and communicative. So with that "this is such a great car to drive" prejudice that comes with every ride, I feel like the car oversteers less now. The car still tells you very obviously how far you are from the grip limit at the rears, but now that limit seems further away after initial turn-in. So a little less nervous.

Got this short USB key to plug into the head unit without propping the cover open:

Didn't get to hear Nightcall while I was out. The speakers in this car sound so much better than the Z06. That car's audio was the worst of any I've heard. I have no idea why.

And got some Sabelt driving shoes:

The chunky heels are kind of a drag, but they fit my wide feet while not being bulky side to side.

INCHI DICKARI
Aug 23, 2006

by FactsAreUseless

kimbo305 posted:

Been under the weather and waking up at odd hours. Didn't feel great but wanted to see what changes if any the spaced out rears caused to handling. It's hard to tell -- every time I get in the car, the shifting is easier than I remember, the ride quality is smoother and less squeaky, and the steering is more precise and communicative. So with that "this is such a great car to drive" prejudice that comes with every ride, I feel like the car oversteers less now. The car still tells you very obviously how far you are from the grip limit at the rears, but now that limit seems further away after initial turn-in. So a little less nervous.

Got this short USB key to plug into the head unit without propping the cover open:

Didn't get to hear Nightcall while I was out. The speakers in this car sound so much better than the Z06. That car's audio was the worst of any I've heard. I have no idea why.

And got some Sabelt driving shoes:

The chunky heels are kind of a drag, but they fit my wide feet while not being bulky side to side.

:colbert:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/catalog/driving-shoes---scuderia.htm

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

So Italian :swoon:
I need to drive up the coast before the snow comes in rocking the gloves and the shoes. Get a lobster roll and then head off into the sunset.

Cage
Jul 17, 2003
www.revivethedrive.org
Don't forget some sunglasses with a side shield to complete the look

Some of the Sheep
May 25, 2005
POSSIBLY IT WOULD BE SIMPLER IF I ASKED FOR A LIST OF THE HARMLESS CREATURES OF THE AFORESAID CONTINENT?

kimbo305 posted:

And got some Sabelt driving shoes:

The chunky heels are kind of a drag, but they fit my wide feet while not being bulky side to side.

drat those heels completely defeat the purpose of such a shoe.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Some of the Sheep posted:

drat those heels completely defeat the purpose of such a shoe.

I'm thinking about filing them down. They're not stiff, but they are super thick for a driving shoe.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
I tackled something I'd been putting off for a while -- digitizing the old service records for the car.
I snapped pictures of all the documents that came with the car, put them in a photo album, and then transcribed the work into my maintenance spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RAmhfKtOOfL0iLgAXMypJHZHF_NvurA3fYAccvyJpGM/edit#gid=962252675
The idea is that any prospective buyer can easily get a complete look at the service history of the car.

A few things I've gathered from reading the records:
- the light that's been out was noted during the major service mid-2012
- starting has been a chronic issue, with a starter rebuild earlier this year
- the overall mechanical condition of the car is good
- just under $30k has been spent maintaining the car (on paper, at least), with about half of that in the last major service
- no signs that the transmission oil has been replaced. The car shifts pretty well, so I dunno if I want to mess with it
- at one point, the car was driven only 370mi over 10 months

RIP Paul Walker
Feb 26, 2004

kimbo305 posted:

I tackled something I'd been putting off for a while -- digitizing the old service records for the car.
I snapped pictures of all the documents that came with the car, put them in a photo album, and then transcribed the work into my maintenance spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RAmhfKtOOfL0iLgAXMypJHZHF_NvurA3fYAccvyJpGM/edit#gid=962252675
The idea is that any prospective buyer can easily get a complete look at the service history of the car.

A few things I've gathered from reading the records:
- the light that's been out was noted during the major service mid-2012
- starting has been a chronic issue, with a starter rebuild earlier this year
- the overall mechanical condition of the car is good
- just under $30k has been spent maintaining the car (on paper, at least), with about half of that in the last major service
- no signs that the transmission oil has been replaced. The car shifts pretty well, so I dunno if I want to mess with it
- at one point, the car was driven only 370mi over 10 months

This is fascinating.

Also, what's up with that 1985 entry at the top?

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
It makes me appreciate what's gone into the car more. A lot of stuff that works now didn't always work.

RIP Paul Walker posted:

Also, what's up with that 1985 entry at the top?

Oops -- should be 1995.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
The replacement 55mm wheel bolts should be coming in tomorrow. Haven't done anything on the torque wrench calibration front. I'll use my lovely beam torque wrench as a rough check.

What's a reasonable way to swap on the new bolts? Replace one at a time, in a star pattern? Or should I take all the old bolts out and then put the new ones in?

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

That's one thing I like about beam type torque wrenches, they really can't go out of calibration. If the arrow points to zero at rest, and there's no damage to the beam, it's gonna be right.

Shouldn't matter how you put the lugs in, I'd go one at a time just to keep from having to jack up the car.

Queen_Combat
Jan 15, 2011
Beam wrenches can go out of calibration and spec while still pointing to zero, but at that point you just buy a new one. So, same idea?

jamal
Apr 15, 2003

I'll set the building on fire
I don't think you need to worry about it. Unless you've been using it as a hammer I expect it will be pretty close. And more importantly all the lugs are going to get tightened the same amount.

LloydDobler
Oct 15, 2005

You shared it with a dick.

Geirskogul posted:

Beam wrenches can go out of calibration and spec while still pointing to zero, but at that point you just buy a new one. So, same idea?

Not to argue, but for discussion's sake how do you think that's possible? My understanding is that you'd have to change the properties of the steel for that to happen.

Queen_Combat
Jan 15, 2011
The twisting metal weakens over time, and this is greatly exacerbated by bending them in the opposite direction. Which is why I'm told you don't use them to loosen bolts.

(I'm probably wrong)

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
For something as chunky as a 1/2" drive head, wouldn't the torques seen be under the endurance limit?

Queen_Combat
Jan 15, 2011
I'm probably wrong

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Just got back from a drive. Half the time I was out there, I kept asking myself if this is the greatest car I've driven.
My previous cars that made me want to get out and drive the most were the 944 and the C6 Z06.
Thoughts on why:
  • I didn't give a poo poo about the 944 so I was never worried about hurting it or having reliability issues (like that one harness in the engine bay that, despite being ziptied the gently caress up to its bracket, kept working loose and killing the motor). The Z06 was reliable like any modern car, so I also just got in and didn't worry about it
  • the 944 had the perfect ergonomics for me. It was so natural to sit in there and do all the driving actions. The seat back had mild but useful wings.
  • the Z06 had a pretty sensitive gas pedal, so you could very finely dole out bits of power. One thing I didn't like about the Viper was the slightly oversprung pedal. The throttle response was less linear, with this annoying dead zone in the first half inch. Coupled with a slightly touchy clutch, it was much easier to stall that the Z06, which I don't think I ever did. The Viper, I stalled twice in stop and go traffic.
  • the 944 packed enough power to get out of its own way, but that was about it. It was pretty softly sprung, so it was a typical slow car driven fast. It was all about handling, which it delivered well with its manual steering and super skinny tires. Once when I was on winter tires, I floored it out of a green arrow and busted a really neutral 4-wheel drift across an empty lane
  • actually, both the 944 and the Z06 were very neutral. You'd have to get pretty deep in the gas on the Z06 before it felt oversteery. Before then, it turned in when you wanted it to. Neutral is predictable and the most manageable
  • the 944 was surprisingly bassy in its exhaust. I liked how guttural it sounded. Between that and the flat primer, it was such a rat rod

Where does this put the 348?
  • reliability wise, it's still early days. I know I have huge maintenance costs ahead. I think that is somewhat liberating -- I need to get my money's worth out of this timing belt before it gets replaced.
  • it is a very easy to drive car. There's a lot of oddities outside of driving, like where the belts are, trying to turn the AC off, etc. But once you're moving down the street, it's slightly stiff but nowhere near ridiculous, the steering is very informative with low kickback, and the clutch is one of the easiest to work that I've driven. Anyone who knows how to drive stick could be trusted to pop down to the store in this car. e: one amendment -- you'd have to tell the shopper about the dogleg pattern. Reverse lockout is really more reverse mild resistance.
  • Driving at 7/10ths is not only a breeze, but it is a joy to have the car so in step with your inputs. In cars with a higher performance envelope, you'd have to have better roads with higher posted speeds to get to that 7/10ths.
  • the motor does have a low end bass note to it. If you shift early into a gear, 2-3k will come out with a deep rumble. Only past 4k will the Ferrari shriek start to build. Going from 4k to 7k -- I laughed my head off twice in the car while revving it out.
  • the shifter and the engine response via the pedals really set this car apart. Because the shifter is so long-throw, you have to work it fast for smooth shifting. The engine doesn't hang its revs, so you have to race it before you clutch out into a too-low rev situation. The same with the throttle. If you wanna heel-toe, fuckin mash that pedal to blip the engine up. If you don't, again the revs will be too low when you clutch out. In other cars I've driven, you complete the shift with your hand and then wait a bit to let out the clutch. You spend more time finessing the gas to rev match correctly. The harder you drive it, the better it works. I guess that aspect of the controls gives the car a certain racing-inspired character
  • the steering wheel was not great out of the box. I'm so glad I put on that spacer. The ape-armed, short legged Italian driving posture is so weird, but I believe that it works for some stereotypical Italian body shape. The seats have decent side bolstering. They hug my love handles pretty well and remind me to lose some weight.
  • this car is noticeably tail-heavy. With the rear wheels pushed out, it is stable but a bit understeery at medium throttle. But you can nudge into oversteer with less pedal than you would in the Z06. It has a wider band of oversteer range available to you. The throttle is nice and sensitive, and the rear tires are relatively skinny, so you can feel how much slip angle is working back there. When there's lots of texture on the road, the rear does feel pretty skittery. The Viper -- I never had enough seat time to feel out its dynamics. With another 140hp over the Z06 and an inch wider tires, I didn't have enough road around Boston to safely feel it out.

I think the question to ask is whether the 348's driving experience is more than the sum of its parts. I would say no. It is a very special car with a special feel. But nothing is out of reach for another manufacturer. Someone else could have built a car that feels like and drives like a Ferrari. Going by Muffinpox's comparison of the NSX and the 348, and sadly not personal experience, the NSX is not that. Honda built a car to their own design goals, not to clone a Ferrari. That makes me glad, because it makes the 348 more special to me.

kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Nov 6, 2015

heated game moment
Oct 30, 2003

Lipstick Apathy

quote:

reliability wise, it's still early days. I know I have huge maintenance costs ahead. I think that is somewhat liberating

Quoting for posterity

Nice ride though.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

Geirskogul posted:

The twisting metal weakens over time, and this is greatly exacerbated by bending them in the opposite direction. Which is why I'm told you don't use them to loosen bolts.

(I'm probably wrong)
As long as you don't exceed the elastic limit, it should be fine. Treat it as breaker bar on a crank bolt after 20 years of road salt, you'll probably gently caress it up.

One of the good things about basic beam-and-needle torque wrenches is that you can use them when undoing stuff to see what torque it takes, as they're marked in both directions normally. Most click-type ones can't help you there, though those with a dial gauge or a digital one can.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Dislike button posted:

Quoting for posterity

Nice ride though.

The previous major service was $13000. I'm expecting $10-15 for the next one. And a couple of failures that will require shop work instead of DIY between now and then.

INCHI DICKARI
Aug 23, 2006

by FactsAreUseless

kimbo305 posted:

The previous major service was $13000. I'm expecting $10-15 for the next one. And a couple of failures that will require shop work instead of DIY between now and then.

"I could buy a brand new dodge dart or pay for expected maintenance on a 25 year old high strung money pit, #nbd #yolo"

heated game moment
Oct 30, 2003

Lipstick Apathy

14 INCH DICK posted:

"I could buy a brand new dodge dart or pay for expected maintenance on a 25 year old high strung money pit, #nbd #yolo"

At least he isn't the guy in the VW thread who's had like $10k of work done on a car less than 5 years old. I also wonder what the long term maintenance would be on a Dodge that will be worthless in several years.

If he paid $50k for the car, keeps it 3 years, does $15k in work to it and sells it for $50k that's not a bad deal at all

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad

Dislike button posted:

If he paid $50k for the car, keeps it 3 years, does $15k in work to it and sells it for $50k that's not a bad deal at all

That's the big question -- am I losing more money by doing the big service and selling it as ready to drive? Or should I try to discount it and not bother?
I dunno where 348 prices are headed. There's plenty of top-condition ones out there, while mine is a driver at best. 355 prices are shooting up, and I dunno if that sends more buyers downmarket?

BrokenKnucklez
Apr 22, 2008

by zen death robot

kimbo305 posted:

That's the big question -- am I losing more money by doing the big service and selling it as ready to drive? Or should I try to discount it and not bother?
I dunno where 348 prices are headed. There's plenty of top-condition ones out there, while mine is a driver at best. 355 prices are shooting up, and I dunno if that sends more buyers downmarket?

I think your logic is correct. Its like the current Porsche 911 craze, its sending buyers down market to the 914 (and to an extent - 944), because lately 914 prices have started shooting up higher than what is necessary. Though I think Boxster prices still have yet to bottom out, but will reverse in the next 5 years after the 944's start going for silly money.

At least the 924 will always be cheap because no one wants them

Krakkles
May 5, 2003

BrokenKnucklez posted:

I think your logic is correct. Its like the current Porsche 911 craze, its sending buyers down market to the 914 (and to an extent - 944), because lately 914 prices have started shooting up higher than what is necessary. Though I think Boxster prices still have yet to bottom out, but will reverse in the next 5 years after the 944's start going for silly money.

At least the 924 will always be cheap because no one wants them
Who is cross shopping a 911 and a 914?

BrokenKnucklez
Apr 22, 2008

by zen death robot
"Vintage"

We aren't talking about enthusiasts, we are talking about idiots. Because no radiator.

Queen_Combat
Jan 15, 2011

BrokenKnucklez posted:

"Vintage"

We aren't talking about enthusiasts, we are talking about idiots. Because no radiator.

But again, it's a 914 . I watched the Wheeler Dealer episode on the 914 and nobody is that crazy, right? It has a VW bus engine.

BrokenKnucklez
Apr 22, 2008

by zen death robot

Geirskogul posted:

But again, it's a 914 . I watched the Wheeler Dealer episode on the 914 and nobody is that crazy, right? It has a VW bus engine.

The trend in pricing proves otherwise. I know, none of us would touch one, but that doesn't mean people aren't snatching them up.

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StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007

This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant
Some people claim the 914 is underrated. I know the 914/6 has been hyped to infinity.

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