|
TheGreySpectre posted:I remember back from working as a Page shelving books at the library some authors were just ridiculous. I seem to recall Nora Robters occupied what felt like half the romance section of the libary and had something like 200 books published. This was quite a few years ago, I'm sure she has more now. The lady must have been doing books in like under 2 months. Nora Roberts is pretty prolific. The guy I hang out with is even crazier. What's funny too is some of his best sellers are ones he thought weren't going to go over very well. The whole "making GBS threads out books hand over fist" does not mean it isn't good literature. That's the story that traditional publishers and their shills really like to put out. A good book is a good book, regardless of the time it takes to make it. This isn't artisinal loving cheese or something. Edit: Most of my humor at this whole idea isn't even so much the author. I mean, sure, you're basically paying him a dollar per word. Which is like, Nora Roberts level of payment. The most  part of all this is the back end part. 30k for publishing? Where are the royalties going? Did you guys just pull these numbers out of a hat?
CainFortea fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Nov 6, 2015 |
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 21:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 22:21 |
|
|
CainFortea posted:Not really, not to a novelist. A lot of writers, especially sci-fi, mystery, and erotic writers, turn novels over faster than poo poo through a goose. I know an erotic novelist who has a couple of best sellers who bangs out a novel in less than a week. CommonShore posted:Different writers work at different paces. Even with this, there's a certain baseline for levels of quality. No writer is going to put out a good, well-edited, reasonably long book in a week. Probably not even a month. Likely not even half a year. Harlequin romance does not fulfill any of the good/well-edited/reasonably long categories that people expect from proper fiction. I'm guessing the book is going to be written in cycles of data-gathering - writing - editing - rewriting - vetting - release in like two month cycles, based on how they're releasing it in serials. For a sufficiently long and quality novel, one year doesn't sound long at all assuming that each one of those serials covers a major story part (so intro/inciting event, major event 1, major event 2, major event 3, 6vdt/denouement). Give him a month at the beginning of the project for background research and a month at the end for publication/advertising/etc and that seems like an incredibly reasonable timeframe. e: hell I'll even break those bits up into what would make sense 1) FA/TEST background, delve 2) "Greed is good" aka "gently caress test we want that sweet fountain moonmoney" aka the beginning of the invasion 3) "Oh god poo poo gently caress we are so unprepared for this" aka "i almost accidentally a 4-ep" aka the part in which we gently caress up horribly 4) Z9PP, things start to turn around 5) Siegefleet: the lyrising aka look mom we can grind pos without a capfleet, fountain crumbles 6) 6vdt + that time we dropped like our entire scap fleet on that one titan save + end ChickenWing fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Nov 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 21:58
|
|
|
Nora Roberts is prolific because its the same damned book with the hair colours changed, come on! There's a bit of a difference from making GBS threads out a book that is basically exactly the same as one you already wrote from coming up with a completely new book, in a new setting, with some not insignificant conceptual problems to be resolved. .... I may be sensitive on this topic because I am entering into the writing phase of my dissertation and it is so loving painful. I'm happy when I get a god damned paragraph a day. The idea that I could get this entire thing out in two months makes me want to punch someone. CainFortea posted:
Oh, that number I don't have a good answer to because it has to do with contractual negotiations I know nothing about. And I think if I did know something about them I wouldn't be allowed to say as CCP has not given the clear to say anything that came from their side of the discussion. Citizen Rat fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Nov 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:00
|
|
|
Dertydan may have got burned - https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3rntt5/cfc_burnreddit_campaign/cwprx2n
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:00
|
|
|
ChickenWing posted:Even with this, there's a certain baseline for levels of quality. No writer is going to put out a good, well-edited, reasonably long book in a week. Oh, well i'll go tell the people I know with published new york times best selling books that they couldn't have done what they did because a dude who writes in his spare time doesn't agree.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:05
|
|
|
ChickenWing posted:Even with this, there's a certain baseline for levels of quality. No writer is going to put out a good, well-edited, reasonably long book in a week. Probably not even a month. Likely not even half a year. Harlequin romance does not fulfill any of the good/well-edited/reasonably long categories that people expect from proper fiction. Many famous books have been written in staggeringly short spans Like, these aren't typical, but an experienced writer, who basically has the story laid out for him, won't take long. poo poo, I've never written a novel in mylife and I've already hammered out 11,000 words in 6 days.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:06
|
|
|
^^ you come write my diss.CainFortea posted:Oh, well i'll go tell the people I know with published new york times best selling books that they couldn't have done what they did because a dude who writes in his spare time doesn't agree. Oh come on, NYT best selling does not mean much beyond selling a lot of copy. Nora Roberts is a NYT best seller and her books are trash. ... not that I know anything about her books at all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:08
|
|
|
Citizen Rat posted:^^ you come write my diss. Does a Nobel Prize mean anything? Because As I Lay Dying apparently went from nonexistent to finished in 6 weeks, I learned today. e. I wrote my own diss. CommonShore fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Nov 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:10
|
|
|
CainFortea posted:Oh, well i'll go tell the people I know with published new york times best selling books that they couldn't have done what they did because a dude who writes in his spare time doesn't agree. romance novels are basically madlibs though you can bust that out in an hour or two
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:10
|
|
|
So what is you guys argument? That Jeff is playing a bunch of people or what? Or that all novels should be done in two to three months? I'm not sure which direction I should be irritated in.CommonShore posted:Does a Nobel Prize mean anything? Because As I Lay Dying apparently went from nonexistent to finished in 6 weeks, I learned today. In six weeks?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:11
|
|
|
Citizen Rat posted:So what is you guys argument? That Jeff is playing a bunch of people or what? Or that all novels should be done in two to three months? I'm not sure which direction I should be irritated in. My position on the matter is that if a professional author says he can do it in 3 mos, believe him. This isn't an especially complicated piece of literature, any research is being curated for him, and it's likely going to be at about the 60k word count when it finishes. 60k words, composed and edited, in 3 months is a far from unrealistic target. Research for one, write for one, edit for one. Finished. e. I wrote 2/3 of the draft in a single go in one summer.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:14
|
|
|
So you are basically saying that Jeff is lying/playing a bunch of people. Okay. Also, what did you do your dissertation in? Just parsing my data is taking forever. I'm guessing not something with a lot of field work.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:16
|
|
|
Citizen Rat posted:So you are basically saying that Jeff is lying/playing a bunch of people. Okay. I'm not saying that he's playing anyone. I'm saying he can deliver on a 3 month goal. English literature with a historicist methodology. I might know a thing or two about books.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:17
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:I'm not saying that he's playing anyone. I'm saying he can deliver on a 3 month goal. Well, Edwards is the one insisting he needs a year, so then he is playing a lot of people. And yeah, it always seems like the English phds take the shortest amount of time to write their dissertations. What does a historicist methodology mean for the English depts? Do you do archival work? Just pulling data through my archival findings has taken about a month. I'm hoping that when I'm not working in Russian it'll be less complicated.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:20
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:My position on the matter is that if a professional author says he can do it in 3 mos, believe him. This isn't an especially complicated piece of literature, any research is being curated for him, and it's likely going to be at about the 60k word count when it finishes. 60k words, composed and edited, in 3 months is a far from unrealistic target. Research for one, write for one, edit for one. Finished. This is hilarious, so if that professional author says he can deliver in a year, we should believe him, too? Because he is a professional author, you see. Maybe we should make a contest, if the kickstarter is successful, you go write the book in three months, he writes in a year and then we judge which book is better.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:23
|
|
|
loving ulillillia made a book and is therefore a "professional author" he can get this project done a year flat. "The Abaddon was color #F00389 and shot lasers the color #F09909" I looked up this Jeff Edwards guy and he looks like hr writes some low-grade Tom Clancy style books.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:27
|
|
|
Citizen Rat posted:Well, Edwards is the one insisting he needs a year, so then he is playing a lot of people. I didn't say the whole thing, I said 2/3 of the draft. My whole program took me 4 years + 1 semester + 1 week + 1 day, and I actually set the departmental record for fastest completion. I did it by taking no vacations for three years. I'm not sure where you're getting this "take the shortest amount of time." Historicist methodology means that I engage with historical sources as much as literary ones, and my argument situates a literary issue into a historical context. My dissertation did a close reading of how a common set of themes in English seventeenth-century literature was actually a propaganda debate. I was looking at the texts, commentaries on them, historical studies, and archival materials to make this case. If it's Edwards saying "give me a year" then whatever, expect it in a year - I guess I got the various promised times confused. Where did "3 months" come from? I thought the "1 year from kickstarter to published" timetable had "3 months for Jeff Edwards to write the thing" edit: copious typos because the caffeine is wearing off. CommonShore fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Nov 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:34
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:I didn't say the whole thing, I said 2/3 of the draft. My whole program took me 4 years + 1 semester + 1 week + 1 day, and I actually set the departmental record for fastest completion. I did it by taking no vacations for three years. I'm not sure where you're getting this "take the shortest amount of time." Just because one guy can jack off and ejaculate in one minute doesn't mean all men can jack off and ejaculate in a minute, some may like to spend time with masturbation and stretch it out a little longer.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:39
|
|
|
Bigbillthaboss posted:Just because one guy can jack off and ejaculate in one minute doesn't mean all men can jack off and ejaculate in a minute, some may like to spend time with masturbation and stretch it out a little longer. yeah, to clarify, I misunderstood the debate as being  - I will write it in 3 months. - That's unpossible to write a book in 3 months.My position is that he can set his own timetable, and there's no reason to disbelieve him, no matter what that timetable is.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:42
|
|
|
A day late and a dollar short on this - but my recent forays into the character bazaar led me to the following thought: When skill-goo comes out, how big of a problem do you think it will be with people selling a character with certain skills on eve-board, then after receiving the isk for the character, will skill-goo the crap out of it before transferring it? Now, the obvious answer to me would be that CCP would either reverse the sale, or restore the character to the advertised SP levels and remove the ill-gotten proceeds from the seller and his skill-goo. But knowing CCP, they'd most likely overreact into some hamfisted fix. Thoughts?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:45
|
|
|
I just think this author sees an incredible opportunity for himself with this. It's never been done before, this "based on actual events In a non actual sci fi world". A fictional story based on real characters who influenced events in a fictional world. He'll be the first to attempt it, gotta set the bar high and I guess he just wants to do his diligence.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:46
|
|
|
grymwulf posted:A day late and a dollar short on this - but my recent forays into the character bazaar led me to the following thought: people did basically this in the past, they sell a character then alpha pod it into a quivering pile of slag the GMs reverse the transaction and the guy who tried to cheat the buyer out of their money is stuck with a useless pile of slag when it comes to the character bazaar the GMs ALWAYS have your back, that's why it's imperative to follow their rules
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:47
|
|
|
you slag
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:50
|
|
|
Looking at time to completion for phds statistically English PhDs, if they finish (and this is an enormous if it seems), have the fastest time to completions within humanities & social sciences.  Anthros take the longest. Particularly the ones who go do the whole "soak & poke" methodology. (I am not making up that name. I'm really really not. That's what the anthros call ethnological methodologies. I don't know what to make of it either.) I'm getting this from the NSF/NIH databases on dissertations which sort by time to completion.I ask about what a historicist methodology means because it seems any time anyone says "I have a historicist method" they mean something totally different. I'm doing a mixed methods language analysis and process tracing of Russian and US budget and legal documents from 1991 forward, which in political science means I am employing a 'historical method.' I'm also doing semi-structured interviews of people involved with those budget and reform decisions, thus from the history departments perspective that means I'm working within "oral archives." Whatever that means. I am always jealous of people who do not have to do data collection or field work. It shortens your program time by so much. On the other hand, Moscow in June is lovely. Re: Jeff Edwards. Folks in the thread are saying it is ridiculous for Edwards to be demanding 60% of the kickstarter to fund him working on the book for a year and that he could do it in three months. Thus he is playing somebody. grymwulf posted:A day late and a dollar short on this - but my recent forays into the character bazaar led me to the following thought: Are you thinking about doing this yourself? Citizen Rat fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Nov 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:52
|
|
|
grymwulf posted:A day late and a dollar short on this - but my recent forays into the character bazaar led me to the following thought: This would be considered scamming the character bazaar which already isn't allowed.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 23:09
|
|
|
ChickenWing posted:1) FA/TEST background, delve I think I'd add in the bulking up (and the death) of the HBC and all that, but I suppose that falls under 1. Also Shadoo wargames.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 23:20
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:Does a Nobel Prize mean anything? Because As I Lay Dying apparently went from nonexistent to finished in 6 weeks, I learned today. I'm willing to bet the basic plot outline was built prior to the six week actual writing though. When I was in my 20's I used to write novellas and the like usually as an attempt at world building (Something I've always been fascinated by) and yeah I could crack out a lot of words fast once the basic premise was down and if I was working from an outline. But if I didn't do any of that foundation work ahead of time I'd often get stuck. I doubt many authors could literally go "You know what? I want to write a book about X" and from that point forward crack a decent novel out in under three months. Most authors I know don't consider the writing to have started until they put the first words the reader will eventually see on a page. The leadup to that can actually cook for a while. Edit revisions alone can take several months.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 23:23
|
|
|
Citizen Rat posted:
Nope, just was pondering the implications with regards to the Bazaar. More of a "I want to be aware of new ways I can be separated from my money if I'm not paying attention" than a "I want to scam clueless pubbies..."
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 23:25
|
|
|
grymwulf posted:Nope, just was pondering the implications with regards to the Bazaar. More of a "I want to be aware of new ways I can be separated from my money if I'm not paying attention" than a "I want to scam clueless pubbies..." And here I had been so hopeful...
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 23:30
|
|
|
Whats the mumble channel to hang out and ask all my stupid newbie fit questions in?
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 00:03
|
|
|
Moochewmoo posted:Whats the mumble channel to hang out and ask all my stupid newbie fit questions in? gs_isk is a pretty good place to ask about money making and random eve stuff, and theta has always been a good newbie trap
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 00:07
|
|
|
Moochewmoo posted:Whats the mumble channel to hang out and ask all my stupid newbie fit questions in? Gooniversity is also a good jabber channel for asking questions in. (We also have a bunch of free poo poo and mentor programs/classes if those interest you)
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 00:13
|
|
PEPSI for TV-GAME
|
Citizen Rat posted:And here I had been so hopeful... Now don't let it happen again, we wouldn't want to feel that you are getting sentimental.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 00:21
|
|
|
Citizen Rat posted:On the other hand, Moscow in June is lovely. It can be, or it can be like the last time I was there with 98+F temps for three weeks straight. Starlight Diner milkshakes helped, though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 00:33
|
|
|
Thank you both. I'll check both out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 01:01
|
|
|
Mein Kampf was written in 69 days edit: its 420 pages long
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 01:48
|
|
|
420 blaze it
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 01:50
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:Does a Nobel Prize mean anything? Because As I Lay Dying apparently went from nonexistent to finished in 6 weeks, I learned today.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 02:04
|
|
|
Dr. Pangloss posted:It can be, or it can be like the last time I was there with 98+F temps for three weeks straight. Starlight Diner milkshakes helped, though. Really? It was 75F and gorgeous the entire time I was there. I lived right next to the river and was able to run along the embankment most mornings. I was pretty impressed with how active the Moscow population is. Though the rollerblading thing was a little strange.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 02:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 22:21 |
|
|
Jeff sounds like a capable author, his AMA in the bacon bar is pretty good. This book could actually be cool. You nerds should email him if you have stories about the fountain war. I know I've got a story for him. http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=1370086&m=7&y=2013
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 02:54
|
|