|
There was also a Nightcrawler solo series being published at the same time, written by Claremont.
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2015 16:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 11:57 |
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:That is the one where they fight Dracula so him getting blessed makes sense I guess,
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2015 17:28
|
|
|
I want to say up front that I am fine with Iceman being gay. There are probably some very cool stories to be written (especially about the older Bobby) and I mean, it's not like he had ever had really interesting plots before. He's always seemed to be one of the X-people who they give like almost silver age plot stuff to ("There's something wrong/changing/unexpected about my powers!") in lieu of giving him a personality. But, as a writer, revealing this about Bobby on your way out the door is... questionable. It reminds me of this all time classic Law and Order moment: http://youtube.com/watch?v=aVjmXSS0wKA (That character's final appearance and first mention of her, or anybody's really, sexuality.)
|
|
#
?
Nov 5, 2015 17:52
|
|
There are more elegant ways to retcon a character's sexuality.BetterToRuleInHell posted:vvv Yeah Not really trolling, just wish fulfillment. Woman did thing. Comic have progressive themes. 4chan mad.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 05:16
|
|
Didn't realize it was part of a big trolling effort vvv
|
I'm trying to make sense of the last two pages of #600. Is Bendis saying Beast changed the timeline after the "intervention" so that Scott's Million Mutant March out-of-nowhere happened, erasing the last however many issues (the ones that weren't already erased by Tempus)? The Washington sequence feels more like a dream than something that actually happened.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 09:20
|
|
|
Marvel has literally only one story arc they write for gay mutant dudes: BORING MUTANT SNOW GUY   BRIEFLY SOME KIND OF ELF?   UNCLOSETED IN CONFRONTATION WITH SOME rear end in a top hat IN RED  
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 23:05
|
|
|
Yeah Bendis's entire run was such a waste. Nothing went anywhere. Just... wow. Extraordinary didn't exactly inspire faith either. It feels like dark days for x-fandom. The only series I have any hope left for is Uncanny.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 23:25
|
|
|
I actually really like Iceman being gay. I just think Bendis did a terrible job of telling that story.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 23:41
|
|
|
I think the vague general consensus has been that Iceman being gay is totally fine but the execution has been Bendis'd all up and down the street.Literally me, six months ago posted:The problem is Bendis, of course. I absolutely, categorically mistrust his ability to conclude this plot thread in a good way, because at this point he's the writer who, no matter how intricate and compelling his setups, still makes you go "So what the heck was the point of all that?" at the end of literally any story he writes. I mean, there should not be any possible way for a revelation of this sort to not be significant and consequential and point-y, and yet I still expect Bendis to find a way to make it so. Already the setup is ringing a ton of alarm bells. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Nov 7, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 00:08
|
|
|
Northstar really is the loving best.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 00:10
|
|
|
New Uncanny was gonna be the one I didn't bother with because of Land art, but drat, Extraordinary 1 was such a letdown I think I'm gonna give it a shot. Magneto was great, so hopefully Uncanny works as a continuation of it. So what's the lovely Scott Summers Timeline look like, now? Unites the mutant race by saying "sorry I've been a dick", 8 months pass, the universe ends, dies pretty much immediately after getting thawed out on Battleworld, regular universe starts up again, 8 months pass, "that Scott's a dick, wherever he is". Calling Beast out on being such a fuckup was the best thing the comic's done in a while. Go hang out with the Inhumans, you blue poo poo, and maybe pick up a "Scott Summers makes me so MAD" t-shirt on your way to their stupid magic city.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 00:48
|
|
|
You know, I still really hate the execution of Iceman coming out but whatever, I've come to terms with it, what's done is done, and I don't think any writer in their right mind is chomping at the bit to be labeled "that homophobe who made a gay character straight", so it'll stick. What I'm surprised no one mentioned is how... bad Uncanny 600 is, dialogue wise. Like, honestly, as much poo poo as people (including myself) may give him, I'd say I like more Bendis comics than I dislike. But the dialogue in 600, all I could think was dear god, who talks like this? It's like Bendis was writing a parody of himself. Oh also: 
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 00:54
|
|
|
I just hope they find someone to pair him with that he's somewhat happy with, because if we just get the stock Iceman Has Unrequited Feelings for Teammate C Arc it's gonna be depressing (the way most writers have treated Iceman over the years, is depressing since he's one of my faves).
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 04:46
|
|
|
The worst thing that ever happened to Iceman was that stupid story where Emma Frost took over his body and was able to do all sorts of crazy poo poo, which made him look like he was literally too stupid to use his own powers properly.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 04:48
|
|
|
Why could AoA Iceman teleport people around? "Moisture molecular inversion", 
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 06:29
|
|
|
Sorry to double post, but remember that time Marvel dedicated an entire issue to an alternate reality version of a Catholic priest hunting down and murdering an alternate reality version of a gay man, by burning him alive in a furnace? Messed up imo.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 07:07
|
|
|
Rick posted:I just hope they find someone to pair him with that he's somewhat happy with, because if we just get the stock Iceman Has Unrequited Feelings for Teammate C Arc it's gonna be depressing (the way most writers have treated Iceman over the years, is depressing since he's one of my faves). It's going to be Northstar and the irony will be delicious. Northstar, noted jerk, will just flaunt his magnificent elfish rear end all around the mansion just to torture him.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 07:09
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:The worst thing that ever happened to Iceman was that stupid story where Emma Frost took over his body and was able to do all sorts of crazy poo poo, which made him look like he was literally too stupid to use his own powers properly. I was just thinking about that bit--that could actually retrofit nicely with Bobby's outing, especially with Jean explicitly tying his closeting and the long-running "something's holding Iceman back" ideas together. Emma knows a thing or two about how the world can hurt gay men, got deep inside Bobby's head and judged him very harshly. If someone remembers that story Bobby and Emma could have a pretty cool dynamic going forward.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 07:31
|
|
|
Squizzle posted:Sorry to double post, but remember that time Marvel dedicated an entire issue to an alternate reality version of a Catholic priest hunting down and murdering an alternate reality version of a gay man, by burning him alive in a furnace? Messed up imo. Where did this happen?
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 10:55
|
|
|
Uncanny X Force by Remender. AoA Nightcrawler gave no fucks. Gave AoA Blob a shark sized tummy ache.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 12:29
|
|
|
Did that actually happen in UXF? I know AOA nightcrawler killed Blob but I don't remember him killing Iceman. I thought it might happen somewhere else after AOA Nightcrawler and Mystique hosed off to wherever.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 17:25
|
|
|
AoA Nightcrawler killing both Blob and Iceman are from Remender's Uncanny X-Force.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 17:37
|
|
|
Speaking of AoA Iceman, that's a good reminder that Bobby repressed himself to stay in touch with his humanity, not because he was gay. Shortly after Emma Frost took over his body and mocked him for not using the true extent of his powers, we are introduced to a version that actually did take full advantage of Iceman's power, a version of Bobby that eventually stopped giving a ratass about killing people, to the point betraying the X-Men and buying into Apocalypse's doctrine was just an expected outcome for that particular character. But knowing that or giving a poo poo about characterization Or even just having Bobby come out as bisexual wouldn't give Bendis the media attention he craves.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 19:10
|
|
|
I always felt that Bobby's inability to use his powers to their full extent is because he's too much of a big kid and goofball to seriously put the effort into bringing out his full potential. Knowing how Kitty is often written, she'll probably react to this "Oh I knew something was wrong, I mean you didn't seem that into me, and everyone is into me."
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 20:14
|
|
|
Saoshyant posted:Or even just having Bobby come out as bisexual wouldn't give Bendis the media attention he craves. YEAH gently caress creators that want exposure and things to sell!
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 20:19
|
|
|
Saoshyant posted:Or even just having Bobby come out as bisexual wouldn't give Bendis the media attention he craves. BS. Because Bendis, premier writer of Marvel and guy with two TV series based on his stuff needs media attention. I very much think that it simply was to cut off any chance of a later writer to use it as a loophole to make him straight in all but name again. Kinda like Gillen made sure to remove his Kid Loki completely. Decius fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Nov 7, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 20:28
|
|
|
The funny part is people would continue to not give a flying poo poo about Iceman if not for this, but holy poo poo he's gay so here come the hot takes on everybody's favorite and most cherished heterosexual icon Bobby Drake. Like, the bisexual erasure stuff has legs. That's about it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 20:30
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:I always felt that Bobby's inability to use his powers to their full extent is because he's too much of a big kid and goofball to seriously put the effort into bringing out his full potential. I thought it was because he quit superheroics to become an accountant for a while, and everyone knows accountants have no imaginations.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 20:48
|
|
|
Cabbit posted:Like, the bisexual erasure stuff has legs. That's about it. I think we should also be giving a closer look to the reuse of the half-elf snomosexual narrative.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 20:49
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure that nobody ever has cared about Bobby "The Iceman" Drake so Marvel can do whatever they want with him but man, this was handled extremely poorly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 21:05
|
|
|
Why is it erasure to say one individual isn't a thing? Because if that's true then well I guess there's so such thing as a good post.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 21:05
|
|
|
It's probably one of those things where even if each individual instance is AOK in isolation, when you pull back and look at the pattern, you see cause for concern. So, yes, Iceman gay, so what? But everyone gay, wait a sec here.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 21:13
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:Why is it erasure to say one individual isn't a thing? It's erasing in that in dismissing the possibility Iceman's bisexual in the way Bendis has done it, there's the implication there's no possibility for anyone to actually be bisexual, which, as dumb and hosed up as it sounds, is a thing that an all too great number of people actually think, and which actually kinda hurts to hear if you're bisexual.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 21:16
|
|
|
ElNarez posted:It's erasing in that in dismissing the possibility Iceman's bisexual in the way Bendis has done it, there's the implication there's no possibility for anyone to actually be bisexual, which, as dumb and hosed up as it sounds, is a thing that an all too great number of people actually think, and which actually kinda hurts to hear if you're bisexual. I don't understand this read at all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 21:30
|
|
|
Wasn't there a recent story with Iceman where he faced all of his exes and dealt with how he treated them like crap? It seems like it would have made sense to spin that story into him pushing them away because he knew he was lying to himself.
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 21:30
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:Because if that's true then well I guess there's so such thing as a good post. just because you've never made one doesn't mean they don't exist elsewhere
|
|
#
?
Nov 7, 2015 22:54
|
|
|
ElNarez posted:It's erasing in that in dismissing the possibility Iceman's bisexual in the way Bendis has done it, there's the implication there's no possibility for anyone to actually be bisexual, which, as dumb and hosed up as it sounds, is a thing that an all too great number of people actually think, and which actually kinda hurts to hear if you're bisexual. I think if the implication was to be that it didn't exist Jean would not need to add a qualifier. Four Score posted:just because you've never made one doesn't mean they don't exist elsewhere That was already the joke, Last Horse. Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Nov 8, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2015 00:47
|
|
|
I'm one of the people mad about the bi erasure undertones but it's not nearly as bad as the whole "straight people should out their gay friends for their own good and be applauded for it" bullshit that Bendis seems completely oblivious to.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2015 01:07
|
|
Blockhouse posted:I'm one of the people mad about the bi erasure undertones but it's not nearly as bad as the whole "straight people should out their gay friends for their own good and be applauded for it" bullshit that Bendis seems completely oblivious to. Outing closeted people is one of the meanest things you can do.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2015 01:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 11:57 |
|
|
Jean is a jerk and I think that this is a clear and unambiguous message.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2015 01:36
|
|