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Is there anything Japan won't turn into a high-school girl?
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Nov 7, 2015 03:14
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P-Mack posted:On the subject of late 18th century pikes, there was a faction in the French Revolution that had a huge boner for pikes, as somehow better representing their hot throbbing passion for democracy than firearms did. The passage excerpted below is from David Bell's The First Total War. Lol for reference Robespierre was the one voice of reason saying you know, maybe starting this war isn't a good idea. Squalid fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 03:18
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Hypha posted:This is the Mikazuki Munechika Man that sword is super shiny but they couldn't make a replica hilt for it? I remember there was an exhibition showcasing a bunch of Japanese swords at the British Museum like a decade ago and for a bunch of them they clipped a huge chunk of the tips off  I guess there's a safety or travel concern or whatever but it still seems kind of severe.
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Nov 7, 2015 03:22
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Squalid posted:Lol for reference Robespierre was the one voice of reason saying you know, maybe starting this war isn't a good idea. That was pretty much the only reason the Directory lasted as long as it did despite being so detested. They got us out of the worst wars.
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Nov 7, 2015 03:22
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VanSandman posted:Is there anything Japan won't turn into a high-school girl? Umm, this game is actually targeted to women. I guess I should have chosen a not effeminate one. Mutsunokami Yoshiyuki SWORD  Sakamoto Ryoma was born into a samurai class family in Kochi Prefecture. He learned swordsmanship at the Hineno Dojo, then studied Hokushin Itto Ryu at Chiba Dojo in Edo. After doing exceedly well, he became representative of those Dojo's. After he left his clan he, was interested in western technology and studied gunnery and seamanship. He established the Taisei Hokan and the Sacho Domei alliance. He was also instrumenal in setting up the Kaientori (navy). His favorite sword which was a family heirloom named "Mutsunokami Yoshiyuki" was given to him by his sister when he left the clan. ALSO SWORD  Japanese women have decided that being creepy looked like fun too. E: I stop now. Kledoclocking ends now.
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Nov 7, 2015 03:24
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Panzeh posted:Everyone keeps saying this but it's not really true- peasant levies and conscripts were not actually that common in at least continental warfare, it was dominated more by professionals, and they used firearms over bows. Most musketeers in this period were professional soldiers who had plenty of time to drill and train. If I remember right, for a lot of time the full time professional units that actually stayed intact in some countries such as France were quite small and they mostly used them to distribute trained veterans among the guys raised for war rather than permanent units that fought in war as a unit.
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Nov 7, 2015 03:44
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chitoryu12 posted:Sort of. Yes, it takes less raw resources to make a bow than a musket. But life isn't quite like an endless sandbox survival game you bought on Steam. For one, English longbows were made specifically with yew. Manufacturing of longbows caused massive deforestation, to the point where shortages compelled the government to order trees cut down on private land. The 1472 Statute of Westminster made it law that a tax of four bowstaves per tun (about 252 gallons) of cargo be brought by every ship entering an English port. A vast supply network was created across Europe purely to provide a supply of appropriate wood for making longbows. By the time guns started pushing bows out completely in the 17th century, they were looking as far as the Baltic for more yew to chop down. On the other hand, muskets and crossbows can be made of just about any decent hardwood you've got lying around. i don't get what you are going on about steam games, but a longbow cost about a few days wages for a worker and a musket cost about 3 weeks wages and there's nothing new or special about natural resources going from periphery to the center
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Nov 7, 2015 03:58
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Most yew trees I've seen are ridiculously twisted and gnarly. I'm surprised that you can get any straight pieces out of those things at all.
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Nov 7, 2015 04:21
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P-Mack posted:Most yew trees I've seen are ridiculously twisted and gnarly. I'm surprised that you can get any straight pieces out of those things at all. :keldosay:
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Nov 7, 2015 04:28
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Panzeh posted:Everyone keeps saying this but it's not really true- peasant levies and conscripts were not actually that common in at least continental warfare, it was dominated more by professionals, and they used firearms over bows. Most musketeers in this period were professional soldiers who had plenty of time to drill and train. I mentioned Henry VIII's ban on lawn bowling earlier: quote:Henry VIII, himself a bowler, in 1511 banned the sport among the lower classes and levied a fee of 100 pounds on any private bowling green to ensure that only the wealthy could play. So while your assertion may be true for the continent (although Charles V banned bowling in France for similar reasons), in England the need for practicing archery constantly seemed to be a very real thing. Although, it may have just been due to the aristocracy having apoplexy over the idea that the peasants were actually having fun, and the need for archery practice was just a pretext. I will take the historical facts at face value, though, until it's demonstrated otherwise.
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Nov 7, 2015 04:45
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Hogge Wild posted:i don't get what you are going on about steam games, but a longbow cost about a few days wages for a worker and a musket cost about 3 weeks wages, and there's nothing new or special about natural resources going from periphery to the center The price of a longbow literally increased 1000% over a 30 year period at the end of the 15th century, specifically due to yew shortages. But the biggest savings in cost for a musket is that you don't have to pay for years of training. You can raise and equip a regiment when you need it, drill them for a month, and they're good to go. That savings allows you to raise far larger armies with the same sized economy.
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Nov 7, 2015 05:12
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Kaal posted:The price of a longbow literally increased 1000% over a 30 year period at the end of the 15th century, specifically due to yew shortages. But the biggest savings in cost for a musket is that you don't have to pay for years of training. You can raise and equip a regiment when you need it, drill them for a month, and they're good to go. That savings allows you to raise far larger armies with the same sized economy. Seems like Longbows -High rate of fire -May not pierce good cloth armors and many plate armors -Requires a high degree of training and practice -Manufactured from quality yew which is in short supply Muskets -Slow rate of fire -Still may be stopped by high quality plate -Relatively less training and practice -Smoke everywhere OH GOD IM ON FIRE *kaboom* -Logistics of manufacture and supplying ammo and powder still important but not as strictly limiting as demand for yew bowstaves
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Nov 7, 2015 05:40
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Koramei posted:Man that sword is super shiny but they couldn't make a replica hilt for it? I remember there was an exhibition showcasing a bunch of Japanese swords at the British Museum like a decade ago and for a bunch of them they clipped a huge chunk of the tips off A replica hilt would probably hide markings. If that was in the British museum I guarantee you that they had been cut long before due to some stupid loving British law
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Nov 7, 2015 06:00
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Pellisworth posted:Seems like Very much so. Muskets aren't a particularly better weapon, but they require much less investment of time and money by the state, which means you can quickly raise armies, and those armies can be much larger. Also, and this is something that we haven't touched on, muskets weren't primarily being used against archers - they were being used against the blocks of melee infantry that were guarding the archers. Then the cavalry could sweep in and handily kill the archers. It was the combination that was so potent.
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Nov 7, 2015 06:57
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Pellisworth posted:Seems like Arrows aren't exactly the easiest projectile to manufacture either. Our resident bowyer said it was something like after finding the right type of wood to square the length of it, then start planing the corners, then plane those corners, then THOSE corners, etc. That's not even getting into the head and fletching, the head of which would require a smith too IIRC and the fletching was also pretty particular. Frostwerks fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 07:56
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Nebakenezzer posted:So there's a game out there called Kancolle which is about you recruiting a bunch of anthropomorphic ship-women (all corresponding to Axis warships, natch) and you send them out to fight enemy fleets - it appears to be a naval sim, or maybe some sort of collectible card game and it has an anime and they are working on a second season! Did I mention Kancolle is Japanese? I probably should have started off with that or else it sounds crazy Kancolle's fanbase even has some artists doing fanart of USN ships.  And then there's the Chinese ripoff which somehow manages to even fit in some Turkish ships and the Netherlands light cruiser De Ruyter.
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Nov 7, 2015 08:02
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Question, not a point. gently caress it, I'm gonna lie down, my head feels funny
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:Just chiming in with cold-war nato-affiliated Sweden's take on ERA: Added it as standard to our rebuilt centurions in the mid 80ies (not done on the s tanks); 1. not earlier because of cost and 2. not after because the regular ballistic protection on the Leo2's was deemed enough, and 3. ERA being lethal to supporting infantry. The main reason they put that ERA on the Centurions is that without it they were vulnerable to something as pedestrian as the 75 mm low pressure gun on the BMP-1 (as well as all other HEAT-slinging things). The S-tank already had the "fence" which provided decent frontal protection against most older HEAT threats, so they figured it didn't need it. The thing with ERA is that it's incredibly mass efficient - as in, even the oldest fielded variants provide easily an order of magnitude better mass efficiency than any known solid material, laminate or not. You can retrofit it to anything that has a decently sturdy armor plate to mount it on and off you go. Very handy, that, and I really don't know why it's not used more in the West. They probably figure they got enough armor built-in already, at least on modern MBT's. and stop posting about anime goddamn
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Nov 7, 2015 08:33
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TheFluff posted:The thing with ERA is that it's incredibly mass efficient - as in, even the oldest fielded variants provide easily an order of magnitude better mass efficiency than any known solid material, laminate or not. You can retrofit it to anything that has a decently sturdy armor plate to mount it on and off you go. Very handy, that, and I really don't know why it's not used more in the West. They probably figure they got enough armor built-in already, at least on modern MBT's. ERA armor is part of the TUSK package on M1A2's and the BUSK package on Bradleys. The biggest reason that the American military waited (and its Western allies generally) is that ERA is so dangerous to friendly infantry operating alongside armor, and so they relied on Chobham armor for as long as possible in order to mitigate those risks.
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Nov 7, 2015 08:46
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Pellisworth posted:Seems like Frostwerks posted:Arrows aren't exactly the easiest projectile to manufacture either. Our resident bowyer said it was something like after finding the right type of wood to square the length of it, then start planing the corners, then plane those corners, then THOSE corners, etc. That's not even getting into the head and fletching, the head of which would require a smith too IIRC and the fletching was also pretty particular. That is right, but arrows are reusable. You can pick them up or repair them. Some might break, or have their fletching ruffled, but it's not as if they're gone when you shoot them. Longbowmen would be issued 2 sheaves of arrows for a campaign. That's 48 arrows. I wouldn't bet my life on cloth armor stopping a broadhead or twenty. Quality plate is another story (until you get unlucky and get shot in the face or in a weak spot). These things happen eventually if you get enough arrows into the air, which would make a case for having many light arrows I guess. About the price of composite bows, turkish records from 1705 and chinese from 1802 show that they cost about a skilled worker's monthly wage, which accidentally is quite close to the modern price of these things.
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Nov 7, 2015 10:14
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TheFluff posted:The thing with ERA is that it's incredibly mass efficient - as in, even the oldest fielded variants provide easily an order of magnitude better mass efficiency than any known solid material, laminate or not. You can retrofit it to anything that has a decently sturdy armor plate to mount it on and off you go. Very handy, that, and I really don't know why it's not used more in the West. They probably figure they got enough armor built-in already, at least on modern MBT's. Old school gen 1 ERA is really light and mass efficient, as it uses light flier plates and a reasonably small amount of explosives, but it's been utterly defeated by tandem HEAT warheads. Current gen ERA incorporates a much heavier cover plate because it needs to resist the explosion of the precursor charge on tandem warheads. As a result it is quite a bit heavier as the casing is armor in it's own right. (Kontakt-5 uses a 15mm armor plate as a casing for example)
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Nov 7, 2015 10:16
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Tomn posted:Come to think of it, I wonder if there's an Enlightenment equivalent of the Gavin guy writing huge, barely coherent treatises on the many virtues of the longbow, its obvious superiority to the musket, and the utter incompetence of those in command (as evidenced by their refusal to use longbows). there was a guy who wanted to give pikemen bows (or longbowmen pikes?) and the idea is dumb as hell https://leatherworkingreverendsmusings.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/the-double-armed-man/ also check out the high heeled boots on a dude who is not preparing to ride--boots of the period were regarded as uncomfortable and difficult to walk in, meaning this unit half-crippled themselves for ??? HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 10:17
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JaucheCharly posted:That is right, but arrows are reusable. You can pick them up or repair them. Some might break, or have their fletching ruffled, but it's not as if they're gone when you shoot them. Longbowmen would be issued 2 sheaves of arrows for a campaign. That's 48 arrows. I really liked the mention in blood meridian that when the yuma are raining arrows on Toadvine and the kid that they're snapping the shafts to prevent them from being used again. I even highlighted it because it was just such a drat clever little detail that makes total sense.
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Nov 7, 2015 10:51
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Kaal posted:Very much so. Muskets aren't a particularly better weapon, but they require much less investment of time and money by the state, which means you can quickly raise armies, and those armies can be much larger. Also, and this is something that we haven't touched on, muskets weren't primarily being used against archers - they were being used against the blocks of melee infantry that were guarding the archers. Then the cavalry could sweep in and handily kill the archers. It was the combination that was so potent. In a practical sense a musket is a more accurate weapon within 50 yards or so than a longbow, particularly if a bowman is using that increased rate of fire heavily. One of the reasons crossbows became popular is that the firing position was a lot more flexible so crossbowmen could carry big shields around to give themselves cover. This was not possible for any bowman. This also made crossbows a lot more practical in sieges where there often wasn't room for a bowman to do his thing. And an early matchlock is way harder to operate than people want to admit.
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Nov 7, 2015 12:05
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By the way, HEY GAL, question - you mentioned a while ago that the dudes of your period didn't tend to do much in the way of official drilling, instead having a system where veterans taught newbies as they went along, right? In that case, what were the drill books for? Who was their target audience, and what did they intend to get out of reading the things?
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Nov 7, 2015 12:09
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Tomn posted:By the way, HEY GAL, question - you mentioned a while ago that the dudes of your period didn't tend to do much in the way of official drilling, instead having a system where veterans taught newbies as they went along, right? In that case, what were the drill books for? Who was their target audience, and what did they intend to get out of reading the things? Officers and nobles
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Nov 7, 2015 12:21
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Hypha posted:This is the Mikazuki Munechika Just read the Wikipedia on the guy. Interesting fellow, he was gonna assassinate a dude, the dude convinced him of his ideals, so he decided to become his protégé.
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Nov 7, 2015 14:23
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Tomn posted:By the way, HEY GAL, question - you mentioned a while ago that the dudes of your period didn't tend to do much in the way of official drilling, instead having a system where veterans taught newbies as they went along, right? In that case, what were the drill books for? Who was their target audience, and what did they intend to get out of reading the things? And it's less a "system" and more sort of a...thing people do. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 16:31
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Panzeh posted:And an early matchlock is way harder to operate than people want to admit. edit: guns  HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 16:36
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HEY GAL posted:i thought it was fine, the times i've shot one Is that you on the right there?
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Nov 7, 2015 16:54
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VanSandman posted:Is that you on the right there? She's a pike person I think? (Ok that could be the times she's shot one)
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Nov 7, 2015 16:57
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HEY GAL posted:i thought it was fine, the times i've shot one Is that realistic period dress, what with the lack of uniformity and everything?
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Nov 7, 2015 16:58
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nope, that is not me. i was a pike person at this fight and i also don't know that company. interestingly, there's more than one woman in this picture, i think Fangz posted:Is that realistic period dress, what with the lack of uniformity and everything? edit: it was pretty common for a colonel/general's Life Guard to match, but that's more like livery than like uniforms. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 16:59
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Handling a shooting a musket is fine once a person is instructed on how to do it. Getting a group of people to do it under a certain amount of conditions during a time limit and things gently caress up. Hell, it doesn't have to be a flintlock firearm. I suck being timed at all sorts of things!
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Nov 7, 2015 17:49
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Danann posted:Kancolle's fanbase even has some artists doing fanart of USN ships. That artist is way, way too competent for the subject he's chosen to portray. EDIT: Oh goddamnit there's a Grand Fleet series too. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 17:59
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SeanBeansShako posted:Handling a shooting a musket is fine once a person is instructed on how to do it. that's why those musketeers in that photo are at "port arms," it's a signal to their corporal/sergeant that you're done and ready to fire HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 18:09
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Kind of thinking of 18th/19th century era drill, but still it isn't hard to handle a musket when you just want to load and shoot it at a thing.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:14
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Taiping Tianguo Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8 Part 9 Part 10 Part 11 Part 12 Part 13 Part 14 Part 15 Part 16 Part 17 Part 18 Part 19 Part 20 Part 21 Part 22 Part 23 Interlude: The Subtle Art of European Diplomacy Following their success in Canton, the Franco-British alliance was determined to convert their gains into a new treaty granting additional trade ports, access to Canton, and the ability to station a permanent ambassador in Beijing. Both Opium wars had been precipitated by the actions of local officials, so the hope would be that regular diplomatic contact would provide an alternate means of resolving future disputes. The Chinese being still unwilling to negotiate at any level higher than the governor of Canton, coercion would be required. The plan is simple. A naval force will be sent to the mouth of the Peiho river near Tianjin, where it can disrupt the rice junks heading to Beijing (This coastal trade was critical with the rebellions severing the Grand Canal). If this were to prove insufficient to bring the Chinese to the negotiating table, they could then proceed upriver toward the capital until the Chinese agreed to meet the ambassadors and revise the treaties. The allies wanted to wrap the matter up in the spring of 1858, concerned that it may become too hot for operations in the summer. They would be accompanied by American and Russian delegations, eager to exercise the most favored nation clauses in their treaties to exploit any gains the French and British extract.  The biggest obstacle standing in their way would be the Taku (Dagu) forts, a series of four fortifications guarding the mouth of the river . Bristling with guns, the fortifications are substantial, if out of date by western standards. The ambassadors are gung ho to proceed with their mission, but the admirals in charge of military affairs are not willing to move forward until they assemble a fleet of shallow draft gunboats capable of crossing the bar of the river and engaging the forts with superior firepower. The wait thus entailed gives the Chinese defenders time to reinforce the forts and assemble reinforcements- to remarkably little effect. Once the fleet was assembled, the assault on May 20th went smoothly. The gunboats crossed the bar and engaged in an artillery duel, softening up the forts. As they had many times in the first Opium War, the Chinese defenders made a futile attempt to use fire ships. Once the forts were sufficiently bombarded, the gun boats put ashore landing parties to the rear of the forts. The defenders panicked at the assault from behind and fled, leaving the forts in European hands. Most of the European casualties suffered came from a magazine explosion in one of the forts following its capture by the French. The humiliating defeat was one thing, but the possibility of a similar scene repeating at Beijing was even more alarming. Finally, it was time for a Chinese delegation to meet with the barbarians and do whatever it takes to make them go away. Opium will be more or less legalized, more ports open to trade, and an embassy will be admitted to Beijing, though it would really be preferable if they resided outside the capital and only came to the court when they really, really needed to. The European negotiators, meanwhile, are led by Horatio Nelson Lay. As head of the China Maritime customs service now collecting taxes in Shanghai, he is well suited to obtain a favorable trade deal, and untroubled by the fact that he is technically an official of the Chinese, not the British government. The negotiation is much more stick than carrot, and the Chinese negotiating team is still working largely with the sole goal of getting these assholes to leave. If that means stamping their seals on some papers, so be it. The French, Americans, and Russians obtain similar treaties, with the Russian one also finalizing some previously negotiated border issues. The Qing are in absolutely no shape to risk war in the north as well, and definitely not over Siberian wastelands. Treaties taken care of, the foreigners depart. They'll have to come back next year to bring the ratified copies to Beijing, but surely that will be a mere formality. An Unexpected Visit Returning to the Heavenly Kingdom, we find the capital in dire straits. He Chun's imperial barracks have the capital under siege, Li Xiucheng and Chen Yucheng are busy holding off the Xiang army in Anhui, and the rest of the Taiping forces are scattered under their own leaders, fighting in the absence of a clear strategic plan. Civil government is a mess, the capital being in the care of Hong's corrupt and idiotic brothers. Even Hong's increasingly addled mind could perceive a crisis, so we should not be surprised that he would jump at the first lifeline presented. We can, however, be surprised at who it turned out to be. We last heard from Hong Rengan (洪仁玕) in 1851, before the Jintian uprising. He had been one of his cousin's first disciples, but Hong Rengan had been with family in Guangdong when the situation in Guangxi turned into a revolution. His attempts to make contact with the Taiping army failed, and he had several narrow escapes from the imperial government. Eventually he gives up trying to catch up with the Taiping, and is instead smuggled by Taiping sympathizers to Hong Kong, where he presents himself to the Swedish missionary Theodore Hamberg. Hong will spend two years instructing missionaries in Chinese and being himself schooled in "proper" Christianity. However fortunate this meeting was for Hong, it is especially so for historians; We know the Taiping origin story thanks primarily to a book published (posthumously) by Hamberg in 1854. Hong was absent for Hamberg's passing, having gone to Shanghai seeking unsuccessfully to make it to the Heavenly Kingdom. He returns to Hong Kong and becomes an instructor and preacher at the London Missionary Society. His close work with westerners gives him a degree of understanding of both western knowledge and modes of thought that was rare among Chinese of the time. His earlier life had left him well versed in Confucian classics, and as such he was uniquely positioned to bridge the two worlds. He was not, however, thinking of himself as a potential leader when, following his mother's death in 1858, he finally made the perilous overland journey to Nanjing. He sewed his family history and some gold leaf inside his clothing, and disguised himself as a peddler for the journey. He experienced several close calls and wacky adventures, even traveling for a time with imperial troops before having to flee for his life when that unit was crushed by Taiping forces. His hope was to see his cousin again, and bring with him all that he has learned of the Christian religion. He is as surprised as anyone when, almost as soon as their joyful reunion in April of 1859 is complete, his cousin names him Gan Wang, the Shield King and prime minister of the Taiping Kingdom. Hong Rengan tries to refuse the title, recognizing both the enormously difficult task as well as the resentment such a rapid rise to power is sure to generate among the Heavenly King's other followers. But Hong Xiuquan insists, and so his cousin takes up the reins of government. He will have to restore civil administration, a shambles since the East King's return to heaven, as well as find a way out of the incredibly perilous military situation. But he is already thinking ahead. Blueprint for a Modern China  Shortly after his rise to power, he produces a New Treatise to Aid Works in Government, a compilation of suggestions to the Heavenly King. It is designed to lay out a project of modernization unprecedented in Chinese history. It goes beyond restoring civil government and establishing the traditional systems of imperial government, though he does set up an examination system that is almost identical to the imperial system except with Confucian subjects replaced by Christian ones. He seeks to establish a government where the executive power is exercised directly throughout the provinces and not reliant on the cooperation of internal court factions. It advocates the establishment of modern technologies, such as steamships,railroads, and telegraphs. Mining is now to be fully encouraged (geomantic concerns typically stifled the industry under the Qing), with profits to be split 20% to the discoverer of a claim, 20% to the government, and 60% to the workers. The Qing would admit the need for steamships and rifles, but balk at the disruptive social influences of railroads and telegraphs, rightly fearing incompatibility between modern technology and their social ideal of an agriculturally based, gentry dominated Confucian society. Rengan, on the other hand, is entirely in favor of wide ranging changes to the systems of society and government. He advocates for rule of law, noting that both good officials and good laws are necessary if rule is to be fair and just. The traditional Chinese judiciary was primarily ends-focused, seeking to maintain social harmony through fair decisions and restore the proper Confucian relationships between people. Unlike the English common law system, this could routinely mean opposite decisions in identical cases, based on what the judge felt would best maintain harmony in that particular place and time. The more western idea of impartial, objective, evenly applied law is an important change, and one that western merchants had long been pushing, at least for their commercial contracts. Hong Rengan also envisions a system whereby taxes are regularly remitted to the central government and accounted for, minimizing opportunities for corruption as well as centralizing fiscal information. (Contemporary Qing memorials frequently instruct governors to send "whatever they can" to assist other provinces. Exact sums cannot be specified because they are not known.) Hong calls for the establishment of newspapers at local, provincial, and national levels and a relatively free press, recognizing that accurate information is essential to good government. Hong calls for establishment of a postal system, banks with authority to issue paper money at an 80% reserve requirement, and even insurance systems so that widows and orphans may be provided for in event of calamity. Social welfare institutions are proposed, and Hong has absorbed enough of the Protestant work ethic to insist that those who are capable of work should do so in exchange for receiving charity. Rather than envision modernization as solely a top-down public sector concern, he proposes the granting of 5 and 10 year patents to reward individuals who create new inventions or methods of reproducing western goods (but woe to the creators of "useless items" who will be punished). Foreigners will be encouraged to share their knowledge and technologies, but Hong will not give them entirely free run of the interior, and the end goal is for Chinese to eventually be able to out compete them in the domestic market. He shares his knowledge of foreign lands with the Heavenly King. The Americans, who elect men of great wisdom to lead for 5 year terms, are the strongest and wisest nation. They became a separate nation after protesting oppressive and foolish misrule from the English. That mistake notwithstanding, the English, whose royal house has ruled for 1000 years, are also to be admired, for their intelligence and their proper understanding of the Christian religion. Germany is quite clever but divided into ten nations. The French are a great power, but their religion is too mystical and superstitious. Russia practices a similar religion called Catholicism (interestingly, he does not make any mention of China's Tianzhu sect), and became a great power 100 years ago when their king traveled to foreign lands and brought their wisdom home with him, in an incident no doubt very instructive for China. Turkey and Egypt have Mohammedanism, which recognizes Moses but not Jesus, and is otherwise a less developed religion (again, he does not make any connection to China's Hui). Persia is a bunch of degenerate fire-worshippers. He also notes that the Jewish people of scripture are still around, and in this case he does identify them as being the same people as the Chinese Jews of Kaifeng. He also mentions some thoughts on other East Asian powers. Siam has begun adopting western ideas and technology and even have their own steamships, growing in wealth and power. Japan has just recently opened to foreign trade and ideas, but Hong predicts that they will be a big deal fairly quick. Going forward, no foreign peoples are to be referred to by terms like "barbarian". Even those nations that actually are less advanced than China will find it insulting, as all people around the world like to consider themselves equals. Hong's open-minded equality-based diplomatic worldview is exactly what the Taiping needed when the foreigners showed up 7 years earlier, but it is unlikely that such a chance will come again. Religion always looms large in Hong Rengan's thoughts. He is in some ways less harsh than his predecessors, viewing argument and persuasion as a much better means of conversion than the sword. He also tries to reconcile Confucian philosophy with Christianity as best he can, though he is years too late to bring the educated Confucian gentry over to the Taiping side, as they have long ago solidified as the heart of the empire's support. If the Christian nature of Taiping doctrine can be questioned, Hong Rengan's personal faith cannot. He is an Anglo-American style Protestant through and through. He will do what he can to correct the more egregious of Taiping theological errors, but will not dispute the divine mission and spiritual parentage of his cousin, nor will he openly denounce the polygamy of the Taiping wangs. As such, foreign powers will always have sufficient grounds to dismiss the Taiping project as an impostor Christianity when it suits their purposes. And with a new treaty with the Qing in hand, it soon will. There and Back Again: The Attack on Zhejiang The final portion of Hong Rengan's missive discusses military affairs, and it is in my opinion clearly the weakest portion, as he talks in circles about the importance of discipline and morale, like a schoolboy with nothing to say but 500 words to turn in. The problem, and one which Li Xiucheng in particular will enjoy pointing out, is that the Taiping need military success, and fast, if they are to ever survive to implement Hong Rengan's radical ideas. Hong Rengan may have represented the best hope for a Chinese Meiji, and would have likely been one of history's great figures had he shown up to take the reins following a Taiping victory over the Qing. Instead, he has walked into a vicious civil war, and the high-minded science and philosophy of a man like Hong Rengan cannot fill the need for Yang Xiuqing-style ruthless military cunning. That said, his first idea for a military campaign is a good one, as even Li Xiucheng admits. Most Taiping armies to the northwest of the capital are recalled, the remaining troops left to slowly give ground. The imperial barracks camps around Nanjing have the city under tight siege, and only a slim lifeline of supply remains open. He Chun is an okay if not spectacular general, and his deputy Zhang Guoliang is the best tactical commander in the Green Standard. However, the imperial armies have left their rear undefended, perhaps assuming the Taiping would continue to focus all their attention on their battles in the west against the Xiang army. Instead, in February of 1860, armies under Li Xiucheng, his cousin Li Shixian and Yang Fuching (the guy who ditched Shi Dakai) strike out to the southeast, into Jiangsu and Zhejiang provinces, wealthy heartlands of China that had thus far been spared Taiping attack but will soon be at the center of the war. The armies converge on two targets, Hangzhou and Huzhou. The provincial capital of Hangzhou falls almost instantly as a small Taiping vanguard storms one of the gates, surprising even the Taiping with the ease of its capture. As with previous Taiping conquests, the capture is tragically accompanied by tens of thousands of suicides. The army under Li Shixian simultaneously threatens Huzhou. He Chun reacts as soon as he hears the news, and dispatches armies to reclaim the cities, defend his lines of communication and secure his sources of supply. The relief forces arrive to find the Taiping gone, the hundreds of Taiping flags left flying along the battlements a mere deception. Hangzhou was in Taiping hands for only five days, but the imperial troops still consider it an enemy city and take their time thoroughly looting it. This is time they cannot afford to spare. Unbeknownst to the relief forces, the entire operation has been an elaborate misdirection. The Taiping have backtracked along a different road and returned to Nanjing. The Imperial Barracks, stripped of their best troops, are suddenly trapped between the returning Taiping armies from the southeast as well as a force under Chen Yucheng appearing from the west. It's less hammer and anvil and more hammer, hammer, and hammer. On May 1st, 1860, the imperial barracks are absolutely smashed, the siege camps dismantled, and those imperial troops who aren't killed or captured flee and desert. Almost overnight, the armies that had imperiled the Heavenly Capital for years on end have entirely evaporated. Hong Rengan's plan has succeeded spectacularly and given a Taiping kingdom perched on the edge of extinction another chance to turn the tide.  For the Qing, it has become clear that they have only one choice, only one force that can match the Taiping. All their hopes now rest with Zeng Guofan and the Xiang army. His private army must be fully empowered to oversee the reconquest of south China. There is no longer time for worrying about whether he can be trusted to give it back when he is done. ---------------------------------- Sorry for the long gap between updates, I'll try harder to stay on top of things. I'm trying to think of what I could do to help make a book on Chinese history accessible to your average man on the Clapham omnibus. So, any lurkers who don't really "get" Chinese history, what are the biggest stumbling blocks for you? Is it the people and place names being a crazy kaleidoscope of unfamiliar similar sounds? Would lots more maps help? Is there some vital background information you're missing that needs to go in the first chapter? Eager to hear your thoughts.
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Nov 7, 2015 19:58
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P-Mack is at it again! Notify the parody thread!
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Nov 7, 2015 20:33
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JcDent posted:P-Mack is at it again! Notify the parody thread! parody thread dude got banned for threatening the lawyer goonnette and saying that he wished her children got raped
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Nov 7, 2015 20:34
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Hey All, This thread has gotten to the point where I can't tell the lovely on purpose posts from the lovely because stupid posts. Kindly post better, so I don't have to sort through a bunch of reports.
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Nov 7, 2015 20:39
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