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people are quitting an mmo, that thing you do forever and never quit
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Nov 7, 2015 18:07
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I'd say I'm glad to see the usual suspects of goon raiders are busy OFing the gently caress out of this thread but...Technogeek posted:I was joining lv60 expert Roulete as monk - ilvl186! Angry raid goons, who totally know how the game could be better using this one trick YoshiP hates, aren't quite as bad as the OF posters yet...  It's nice to know that Madam Cleo is a goon and actively divining the health of FF14 right here in this thread, too.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:19
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Chyea posted:I agree that Savage should be cosmetic and relegated to the realm of the poopsocker but that doesn't look like the path SE is going to take. I expect it's exactly the path SE is going to take. The arrangement of story and savage was clearly an attempt to kill two birds with one stone; both birds stemming from the knowledge that there would be an extended amount of time until new content was released. The story mode was to provide 'progression' to more casual players and access to story elements they'd previously complained was inaccessible. Savage has successfully served it's purpose too, to dramatically extend the lifespan of the current raid tier. You're crazy if you think this change was a result of any complaints of Coil being 'too easy'. Extending the life of content has been a predominant feature of 3.0. Gathering and crafting scrips, the huge amount of exp required to level new jobs, the restriction of exp from 50 dungeons; all of it has had the same intended function. Yet in doing so, SE has inadvertently lost some of the things that made the game so immensely popular in the first place. The difficulty and balancing of the primary raid tier throughout was pretty much spot on. Encounters were interesting, with almost perfect difficulty curves that meant that top end groups were challenged but cleared quickly, 'mediumcore' (or whatever the cool kids call it) groups would follow in the preceding weeks and Echo buffs would assist those a little further behind in completing content whole still feeling as if they had genuinely achieved something. Then we had savage, for the more masochistic among us. Savage could definitely have done with some kind of cosmetic reward, aside from titles (though, carrying some of those titles was pretty cool), but the essence of the arrangement was great. People aren't leaving purely because 'muh content is too hard'. People are leaving because the game's big draws - speed of new content, balancing, accessibility, almost universally achievable objectives with (mostly) appropriate rewards - are not currently there. There's only so long people will play for community, goodwill and expectation. I think SE are bright enough people to have taken lessons from that.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:52
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I'm pretty sure that even if all the people who were putting serious time into A3/4S quit forever it would impact SE's bottom line about as much as a brisk fart would impact the Earth's rotational speed. The bigger concern is the people who aren't playing because they got tired of all the other content that's available, but they get tired of that content by the end of every patch cycle and come back anyway. The difference is just that this patch cycle has been longer than normal by a month or two so there's several more weeks of doom and gloom before we all run Void Ark until our eyes bleed and then get bored in January and stop playing for several weeks again just before 3.2 hits.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:53
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ArtIsResistance posted:people are quitting an mmo, that thing you do forever and never quit
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Nov 7, 2015 18:55
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you guys are all dumb, you can't predict the future! now let me tell you how i predict this will all play out
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Nov 7, 2015 19:04
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Chyea posted:The game is not rocket surgery; everything you need to know to beat a fight is laid out in numerous videos and guides. Chyea posted:There's no guides or videos so each innovation you make to a strategy is untested and exciting. The reward is solving the puzzle.
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Nov 7, 2015 19:28
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Y'all need to chill and post more pictures of your catgirls/dragongirls/potatoes/roegadames.
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Nov 7, 2015 19:34
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I hope I don't ruffle any feathers by saying this, but I think that overall, this game's flaws are very minor and it is a fun game. I am excited to see adjustments and changes to try and fix the flaws, as well as brand new original content coming in the future.
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Nov 7, 2015 19:35
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Boten Anna posted:I hope I don't ruffle any feathers by saying this, but I think that overall, this game's flaws are very minor and it is a fun game. I am excited to see adjustments and changes to try and fix the flaws, as well as brand new original content coming in the future. I'll have you know that those minor flaws are actually major problems!
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Nov 7, 2015 19:39
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I actually like A3S, I'm just frustrated that some of the mechanics have the margin of error that they do. We'll keep chugging along and get gear upgrades and I'm sure it'll be fine, but recruiting right now in general seems to look bleak for statics losing anyone. On the plus side, with 3.1 dropping maybe we're back to a normal patch cycle? nuru fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 19:43
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The Deadly Raiding Autism: not even once.
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Nov 7, 2015 19:45
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Potato Jones posted:I'm sad that a puzzle can only be solved once. It would be great if I could take on Alex Savage at my own pace and figure out how to win. Gosh golly, I'd love it. Feel free but, complaining about difficulty without using all the assets available to you is a foolish attitude. For example, I switched from MNK to DRG halfway through A3S progression. I reached out to other DRGs who were progressing longer than I had and asked them for their timings, movement, and ideas. We didn't have much help solving each fight but we still made use of every possible grain of wisdom. Chyea fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 19:45
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Chyea posted:Feel free but, complaining about difficulty without using all the assets available to you is a foolish attitude. Edit: basically gently caress off with your first past the post concept of playing an MMO, you dingdong. Potato Jones fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 19:49
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Are we complaining optimally yet? Or do we need to hone our technique and maybe pray for a nerf first? More seriously: whose house is gonna look like this first? Because i will totally move to that FC 
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Nov 7, 2015 19:50
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Potato Jones posted:Uuuuugh, so by having started later any efforts to do it under one's own power are invalidated because other people cleared it first, leading back to my post about invalidating the wins of others retroactively. Of course not but if your goal is clearing a floor then making use of what others have done in the past helps you in your future. No math major invents calculus but that doesn't invalidate their degree. Chyea fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 19:53
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a kitten posted:More seriously: whose house is gonna look like this first? Because i will totally move to that FC where all the missing moogles went
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Nov 7, 2015 19:56
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Is there a guide to tweeking the graphics outside the game? I remember some people posting about what they'd done to change settings. I just want some nicer screenshots.
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Nov 7, 2015 19:57
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Chyea posted:Of course not but if you're goal is clearing a floor then making use of what others have done in the past helps you in your future. No math major invents calculus but that doesn't invalidate their degree. To talk down to people trying to learn Alex Savage and tell them to just watch a video goes directly against the idea of doing it for yourself, which is your stated reason for doing progression. Why can't someone else try to do it the same way?
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Nov 7, 2015 19:58
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Potato Jones posted:That's still Do What I Say Not What I Do. They can but then they have no reason to complain about difficulty, as they are artificially imposing it on themselves.
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Nov 7, 2015 19:59
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Suitaru posted:To discourage wacky strategies they don't foresee (doing a fight with one tank or all ranged dps or whatever) without hard-locking party setup. 'Thou shalt not play the game other than in the exact way we thought you would' is stupid and bad. E: also hi anyone I played with before, I may come back to this game again 
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Nov 7, 2015 20:07
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Chyea posted:They can but then they have no reason to complain about difficulty, as they are artificially imposing it on themselves.
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Nov 7, 2015 20:07
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nuru posted:I actually like A3S, I'm just frustrated that some of the mechanics have the margin of error that they do. We'll keep chugging along and get gear upgrades and I'm sure it'll be fine, but recruiting right now in general seems to look bleak for statics losing anyone. Yeah the margins for error are pretty much nonexistent. Almost every mechanic seems to be a wipe mechanic.
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Nov 7, 2015 20:10
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Kalenn Istarion posted:'Thou shalt not play the game other than in the exact way we thought you would' is stupid and bad. Then this is the wrong game for you, because they very clearly have defined roles they want each class to do, and if players find ways to not do those roles, they'll find ways to make them play the way intended. See the way they've gone out of their way to ensure you can't speed-run dungeons and avoid killing trash.
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Nov 7, 2015 20:19
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Chyea posted:No math major invents calculus but that doesn't invalidate their degree. Yeah but most people probably didn't play Portal with a walkthrough open on the other monitor. If you're raiding for the sake of overcoming the content, looking up guides kind of misses the point. At that point the fight is solved and you just have to not screw up while hoping the other 7 people you're with also don't screw up, which is already how the rest of the game works. For other people, raiding is less about that and more about getting gear, or checking off that "I finished the raid" checkbox on the achievement list, so for them looking up the guide just gets the 'lovely part' of raiding out of the way.
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Nov 7, 2015 20:20
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Potato Jones posted:So there is no middle ground? A team can't attempt it on the same footing as, say, your group, because other people have cleared it. Being late to the party and complaining about something is tantamount to coasting through all previous content. Complaining about things that give you trouble is normal and natural and I'm sure you or someone you raid with was at one point perturbed by some element of the entirety of Savage Alexander. I don't care about some hypothetical progression-minded, no "spoiling" raid team, those players aren't the ones making the bulk of the raiding community. The crux of the issue is that a huge portion of the raiding community finds Alexander too difficult; yet those same players refuse to use the resources available to them to optimize. Instead they either quit or complain on some forum. This is my problem with the raiding community. It's not unreasonable to assume that the hardest content in the game should require you to play your class to 85%-90% of its potential. That being said, I do hope they use the Story - Hard - Savage model for the next tiers. Chyea fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 20:31
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How dare you beat the raid before me chyea, you proud fucker. Ur rotation look like a dishrag . Fight me.
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Nov 7, 2015 20:50
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Chyea posted:It's not unreasonable to assume that the hardest content in the game should require you to play your class to 85%-90% of its potential. Not at all unreasonable to expect that, I agree. What is unreasonable, is to assume that the problems people are running into are purely because they're not doing this.
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Nov 7, 2015 20:50
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Chyea posted:The crux of the issue is that a huge portion of the raiding community finds Alexander too difficult; yet those same players refuse to use the resources available to them to optimize. Instead they either quit or complain on some forum. This is my problem with the raiding community. It's not unreasonable to assume that the hardest content in the game should require you to play your class to 85%-90% of its potential. The problem is that these fights more accurately represent "85-90% of potential, and never make mistakes, ever." If you're on the lower end, there's very little you can actually screw up while learning that doesn't end the attempt right there, and that sucks. A lot. That wasn't really the case in Final Coil - when someone messed up their mechanic, you could more often than not peel them off the floor and at least continue learning a bit more (even if beating the enrage was no longer likely). Niton fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 21:01
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Vil posted:Not at all unreasonable to expect that, I agree. What is unreasonable, is to assume that the problems people are running into are purely because they're not doing this. The three things you need to clear a boss are gear, strategy, and skill: Gear can be a factor but, anyone playing for the last few months should have a full set of eso gear or at least a Alexander Normal set. Strategy, aside from groups who wish to progress on their own, is also freely available. There are many explanations of mechanics and diagrams of positioning. It takes some time to get used to any given strategy but that process doesn't take weeks upon weeks. Skill is the only remaining factor, and is the most prevalent problem. This has no easy solution other than introspection and understanding.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:03
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SE has shown a remarkable ability to learn from their mistakes over the course of FF14's lifespan. I have faith that going forward, they will learn from mistakes made with the first set of Alex Savage stuff as well (I'm not a progression raider, admittedly, so what those mistakes might be, I couldn't say. People seem to have some varying opinions, although poor choice of tether mechanic in A3S seems a common one).
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Nov 7, 2015 21:05
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The biggest problem with the last of those three things is time. This game is competing against a million other forms of entertainment and real life circumstances for people's time, and not everyone is going to want to invest X number of hours to get really good at this one video game.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:06
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Niton posted:The problem is that these fights more accurately represent "85-90% of potential, and never make mistakes, ever." If you're on the lower end, there's very little you can actually screw up while learning that doesn't end the attempt right there, and that sucks. A lot. This is blatantly false. Two weeks ago a relatively casual group in Elysium posted a A4S parse with 16 deaths. That's 10 more deaths than necessary for the sac strat. That's basically a gently caress-up every minute of the fight. They still cleared it. Player skill can make up for errors.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:07
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Now find an A3S clear with 16 deaths. The fight the majority are actually stuck on.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:20
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i don't know why you would try and debate with some goon mmo player who does world first progression and expect them to have reasonable opinions, or relate to the normal person playing this game, or not be a doofus...
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Nov 7, 2015 21:28
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Chyea posted:This is blatantly false. Two weeks ago a relatively casual group in Elysium posted a A4S parse with 16 deaths. That's 10 more deaths than necessary for the sac strat. That's basically a gently caress-up every minute of the fight. They still cleared it. Player skill can make up for errors. Being able to recover is the hallmark of a great player, but not all situations are equally recoverable, especially when you're still learning. Hand of Pain is a big wall for a lot of groups for this reason - it's the first thing that really requires perfect precision from 8/8 of your raid, and ends the fight immediately for failure. You know how a raid night ends for a group in the 90th percentile? Players get fatigued, razor-thin pass/fail margins flip the other way, and people get demoralized and stop for the evening. Could this be prevented if they were better players? Absolutely, but my group cleared all 3 Coils before Echo, and A3S feels a lot more punishing than any of those were, especially on our limited schedule. Niton fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 21:29
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Chyea posted:The three things you need to clear a boss are gear, strategy, and skill: Let me add a fourth one on to that: time. If your raid group runs 3+ hours a day several days of the week, you will clear things much faster than a group that only runs 2 hours a day only a few times a week. Player skill isn't some static trait independent of the fight you're working on. Player skill is a combination of the ability to be highly efficient with your class and react to the specific fight's mechanics. Learning to do the second one without sacrificing the first takes time, and a lot of it. I mean come on, how long did you guys take to clear AS3 and 4? How many hours a day? Even accounting for the time it took to divine the strategies you used, do you honestly expect people to believe that you executed them flawlessly literally every time? That ya'll said "this is the strat" and instantly no one hosed up any more? That you didn't have to wade through a ton of wasted pulls that ate up a ton of time? Considering that not every raid group started at the same time nor puts in the same hours, it's really dumb to try and compare their successes and failures as if such a comparison could be in any way meaningful I guess my point is this: stop being such a disingenuous dingus. TooManyUzukis fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 21:34
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Chyea posted:This is blatantly false. Two weeks ago a relatively casual group in Elysium posted a A4S parse with 16 deaths. That's 10 more deaths than necessary for the sac strat. That's basically a gently caress-up every minute of the fight. They still cleared it. Player skill can make up for errors. Those are people with 210 weapons and such. Everyone without a clear still has the tighter checks.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:36
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This game is super easy, just load up my world first clear and input the exact same actions at the exact same time and you should easily be able to clear. You can't do that? Well I did it just fine.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:40
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Chyea posted:It takes some time to get used to any given strategy but that process doesn't take weeks upon weeks.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:45
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