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OvineYeast posted:I'm told my (Irish) Great-granddad went into the British Army during WWI but was apparently bullied out of it for being Catholic. No idea about his motivations but I'm guessing King and Country didn't have much to do with it. The late 19th/early 20th century armed forces were loving rammed with Catholics. My best guess is that it would be an economic decision. I'm surprised to hear that he was bullied out for his Catholicism tbh, the documents I've seen at work indicate a healthy Catholic presence and an effort (lazy, but minimal) on the part of the Ministry of War to ensure that Catholic servicemen could get access to Catholic priests, chapels, services, etc. Maybe your gramps got unlucky and went into a lovely regiment with no other Catholics or something.
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Nov 8, 2015 22:54
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Oberleutnant posted:The late 19th/early 20th century armed forces were loving rammed with Catholics. My best guess is that it would be an economic decision. I'm surprised to hear that he was bullied out for his Catholicism tbh, the documents I've seen at work indicate a healthy Catholic presence and an effort (lazy, but minimal) on the part of the Ministry of War to ensure that Catholic servicemen could get access to Catholic priests, chapels, services, etc. Maybe your gramps got unlucky and went into a lovely regiment with no other Catholics or something. Well this is all hearsay ofc. He died when my grandfather was a teenager so it's quite possible bits of the story got garbled along the way.
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Nov 8, 2015 23:01
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Renaissance Robot posted:He was trying to do an empire, but that was our idea first and he just nicked it. WWI was fought to protect our copyright on the concept of a global monopoly on bastardry. :Assyria:
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Nov 8, 2015 23:04
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To be fair to Gove there was a bit of defending our freedom going on in the propaganda (well, mostly defending Civilisation which is of course embodied by the Anglosphere, and maybe the French), although I think British stuff did tend to focus on duty (Kitchener, What did you do in the War?). And then you've got the fact that the UK and the USA were more liberal than Germany which was pretty absolutist. Which holds up for all of about 10 seconds before you remember whose side Tsarist Russia was on.   To be even more fair to Gove, he is a massive loving idiot who has swallowed wholesale propaganda from a century ago without the fairly major excuse of it being 1914.
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Nov 8, 2015 23:04
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The only full on defenses of the Great War that I've heard from people of my grandparent's generation were that it is Britain's duty to stand with her allies, and that it is Britons' duty to fight for their country, or that Prussian militarism was a threat to peace in Europe. Or the more resigned 'well, it was going to happen sooner or later with all the tension'. But even they can admit that the whole thing was a loving mess. I wonder what freedoms the current set of commentators think were won by the war. Other than the freedom to run roughshod over Africa for a few more decades like Renaissance Robot said. e: ^^^ Yeah, Gove seems to have followed a line of US propaganda that didn't even exist in the UK as part of his sterling revisionism. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Nov 8, 2015 |
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Nov 8, 2015 23:07
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BUY FREEDOM BONDS FOR FREEDOM is pretty good.
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Nov 8, 2015 23:07
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What irritates me about the idea of soldiers fighting to protect our freedoms is that nobody ever follows the thought any further. If we take as granted that it is necessary to kill in defence of freedom, then what happens afterwards? When you've won the war and no more foreigners need to die to preserve your freedom? At what point does your duty to protect freedom cease? If you laud soldiers for fighting and dying and killing to preserve your liberty then what makes it so that you need not do the same? We don't need people to kill for freedom at the moment but we do need people to vote for it, to pay tax for it, to unite together and stand against the few who work constantly to take away our freedom to fuel their own. If you believe it is right to kill for freedom why do you not believe it's right to give shelter to those who are denied a home, food to those who are starving, and safety to those in search of it? Is that not much easier than going out and killing? It takes more than violence to protect freedom, it needs to be built, not just guarded.
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Nov 8, 2015 23:17
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Renaissance Robot posted:Because suggesting that people's loved ones died propping up what has always been at best a morally grey establishment is never going to be a popular move, regardless of what other good you may acknowledge them to have possibly been doing depending on their individual circumstances. It seems to me that as the founders of rememberance day are dying off, so is the original message. Millions died in a great tragedy - we can remember those people without any of the politics. The lack of politics in rememberance was the most powerful message - it doesn't matter what you believe, this was a tragedy, don't forget it, and for gods sake don't let it happen again.
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Nov 8, 2015 23:23
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XMNN posted:To be even more fair to Gove, he is a massive loving idiot who has swallowed wholesale propaganda from a century ago without the fairly major excuse of it being 1914.
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Nov 8, 2015 23:38
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More dire NHS news: As chair of a trust, I’m speaking out. The NHS is headed for financial ruin posted:If you’ve been moved by the remarkable real-life human stories and the heroics of the hospital team on the Channel 4 series 24 Hours in A&E, then you may be surprised to know that behind the scenes at St George’s in Tooting, where the series is filmed, this great hospital is battling with an unprecedented financial shortfall. It is not alone. The NHS is heading for a real smash, and practically everyone running a hospital knows it. Hospitals are at 100% capacity at the moment – and the onset of winter could be a nightmare. But beyond this, an accelerating financial disaster is in progress. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/08/nhs-chairman-funding-crisis-collapse http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/nov/08/nhs-facing-financial-collapse-warns-london-trust-chief They are going to kill the NHS.
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Nov 8, 2015 23:38
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Remember the poppy is taken as a sacred symbol by most and questioning it is like shoving a cross up your arse in the middle of mass. It's really scary that a mass of people don't see the insidious warping of Rememberance Day and the poppy to uphold pig fuckers status quo. 100 years ago they'd be in the meat grinder. I guess the lack of value placed on understanding history and how it influences current society just leads to history being easily revised.
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Nov 8, 2015 23:51
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Did I no call it. Old man's bow not enough for poppy fascists.
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Nov 8, 2015 23:52
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Abbey's a bit tasty
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Nov 8, 2015 23:58
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Oberleutnant posted:Abbey's a bit tasty Please don't objectify women.
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Nov 8, 2015 23:59
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Oberleutnant posted:Abbey's a bit tasty What are her politics though?
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Nov 9, 2015 00:01
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XMNN posted:More dire NHS news: They aren't going to kill it before the 2020 election, but I wouldn't be surprised if they keep it just afloat long enough to let it collapse just after the election results come in. Of course at that point the damage would be so "extensive" it would require "radical measures".
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Nov 9, 2015 00:01
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Oberleutnant posted:Abbey's a bit tasty
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Nov 9, 2015 00:01
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Oberleutnant posted:Abbey's a bit tasty She's dressed very impractically for the weather, I suspect she'd dead now.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:02
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XMNN posted:More dire NHS news: Once again, the nation is being hosed by the people who are too old to give a poo poo if they gently caress our nation.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:03
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I don't think old people are 'loving the nation' by needing medical treatment.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:04
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What is she wearing on her feet? It looks painful.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:04
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big scary monsters posted:What are her politics though? I have no doubt she'll tell us exactly what she thinks of Comrade Corbyn on Page 3 tomorrow.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:04
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Pissflaps posted:Please don't objectify women. Wasn't it you on IRC the other night routinely insulting women for their appearance? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 9, 2015 00:05
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OwlFancier posted:What is she wearing on her feet? It looks painful. Is this a trap to see if anybody is bourgeois enough to know what a ski boot looks like? gently caress.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:05
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Tesseraction posted:Wasn't it you on IRC the other night routinely insulting women for their appearance? I think you're mistaken and, either way, not importing IRC drama is one of this forum's oldest rules. So don't.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:06
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Pissflaps posted:I don't think old people are 'loving the nation' by needing medical treatment. Remind me who said old people tend to vote for? Apparently I'm suffering from your aneurysm which causes me to forget how history works.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:06
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Tesseraction posted:Remind me who said old people tend to vote for? Apparently I'm suffering from your aneurysm which causes me to forget how history works. So we should let old people die because they're old and some of them vote Tory. Lovely stuff from 'comrade central'.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:07
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Pissflaps posted:I think you're mistaken and, either way, not importing IRC drama is one of this forum's oldest rules. So don't. In that case you might want to distance yourself from the person who came in with your name and started blurting out grossly misogynist bullshit at length.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:07
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Gonzo McFee posted:She's dressed very impractically for the weather, I suspect she'd dead now. Snow can be deceiving, I've been on mountains before where it was -10 in the shaded valley but eight hundred metres higher up it was taps aff weather. Sunburn could be a significant risk though, snow reflects UV very well and I've suffered sunburn in Scotland in January on a number of occasions. Getting burnt on the underside of your nose is an unusual and unpleasant experience, I hope she has creamed up adequately. 
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Nov 9, 2015 00:08
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Pissflaps posted:So we should let old people die because they're old and some of them vote Tory. Not what I said, arse-brain. I thought you were meant to be intelligent... although I'm worrying that the term should actually be 'illiterate.' At least when you're involved.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:09
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Tesseraction posted:Not what I said, arse-brain. That's exactly what you said.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:09
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big scary monsters posted:Snow can be deceiving, I've been on mountains before where it was -10 in the shaded valley but eight hundred metres higher up it was taps aff weather. Sunburn could be a significant risk though, snow reflects UV very well and I've suffered sunburn in Scotland in January on a number of occasions. Getting burnt on the underside of your nose is an unusual and unpleasant experience, I hope she has creamed up adequately. There you go, riddled with skin cancer now. Damned Murdoch claims another victim.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:10
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Oberleutnant posted:Is this a trap to see if anybody is bourgeois enough to know what a ski boot looks like? Not intentionally but thanks for outing yourself in advance, comrade  Least that explains the weird plastic bits. Pissflaps posted:That's exactly what you said. It is possible for old people to be loving the country without it being reasonable to do anything about it other than apply as much lube as possible, at least until they die. Boomer bubbles are a problem but there's nothing you can really do about the costs of them, except manage them. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 00:11
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oxford_town posted:The RCS have been unforgivably tight lipped during the current debacle. Is the EWTD exemption not something supported by their trainee membership though? Nope, it's literally just the consultants who are pushing for it because they're stuck in the past. The college's junior members are very much in support of the EWTD and quite a number of them are quitting the RCS (London) to transfer to one of the Scottish ones as a sign of protest over this, Lansley's reforms, and the new contract as the RCS (London) supports all three.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:11
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Pissflaps posted:That's exactly what you said. I appreciate you lack the ability to see beyond your periphery, but have you considered... that I was referring to voting patterns of our elder voters? I joke here... pretending you aren't just being contrary for the sake of it is like... ah I can't even be bothered at this point. Falling your for your trolling is so loving stupid and I can't believe I did.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:13
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Gonzo McFee posted:Did I no call it. Right, this is getting loving daft now. Jezza did everything that was asked of him, and its STILL not enough. The loving establishment sit there, dick in hand, waiting for the first thing they can possibly whinge about. So, he didn't bow enough. Compared to his predecessors and opposite numbers, how the cutting gently caress does that make an iota of difference? Going off to calm down now.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:14
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Tesseraction posted:I appreciate you lack the ability to see beyond your periphery, but have you considered... that I was referring to voting patterns of our elder voters? Yes. You did this after putting parts of an article on stresses on NHS funding that mentioned how much more it costs to provide medical care to people over 80 compared to those in their 30s. You then described how the 'nation is hosed' by these people. To which I responded: Pissflaps posted:So we should let old people die because they're old and some of them vote Tory. Is there some nuanced aspect of your attitude I failed to sum up in that post?
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Nov 9, 2015 00:16
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Pissflaps posted:Yes. You did this after putting parts of an article on stresses on NHS funding that mentioned how much more it costs to provide medical care to people over 80 compared to those in their 30s. You then described how the 'nation is hosed' by these people. To which I responded: Probably, since you're apparently too brain-lacking to realise that the majority vote for the Tories comes from the elder citizens. Do you not understand why that might be relevant?
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Nov 9, 2015 00:17
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XMNN posted:And then you've got the fact that the UK and the USA were more liberal than Germany which was pretty absolutist. The Imperial German system of government before the war is far more interesting than it's given credit for and worked well enough to deliver (by the standard of Europe at the time) a reasonable standard of living for a reasonable amount of the people (they started on a proper welfare state in the 1880s, for instance) and it could easily have lasted long enough to evolve into a more modern, liberal, constitutional monarchy as long as the Kaiser was a good practical sensible stolid German like Frederick III. Three Men on the Bummel is well worth reading for some interesting insights into turn-of-the-century Germany and how it was often presented to Britain, a few years before imperial squabbling and the signing of the Ententes with France and Russia required turning them into the villainous Hun. Sure, there were also some less savoury elements, like how technically the Empire was four constituent kingdoms of equal status but in reality was dominated by the largest kingdom which provided most of the aristocracy and tended to run things as much as possible to suit themselves; or the upper house of the legislature that was designed to allow the said aristocracy to nobble any legislation that it didn't like the sound of, but, er, which European monarchy were we talking about again?
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Nov 9, 2015 00:19
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Tesseraction posted:Probably, since you're apparently too brain-lacking to realise that the majority vote for the Tories comes from the elder citizens. Most over 65's voted for parties other than the Tories. Along with every other age group listed.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:21
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