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McFrugal posted:One of the biggest problems with botania is that most of the mana-generating flowers are just awful when fed manually and a gigantic pain in the rear end to automate. Like, who is going to make a cake factory for mana generation? The bottleneck is eggs so you need like 50 chickens, which causes lag. Who is going to set up a gigantic rainbow sheep farm to feed the wool flower? Again, lag. Not to mention you have to figure out a way to get it to drop the order in exactly the right sequence. The munchdew is PROBABLY possible to automate without AE2 but gently caress doing that. What's left? The food-eating one? Oh hey there's also a stupid restriction when automating that, because it eats food even when it's full. The thermalily? Actually INFERIOR TO ENDOFLAMES when both are automated, overall. I'm not sure the thermalily can be automated anyway without outside mods. Similarly, the Entropinnyum is probably impossible to automate without other mods, and even when it IS, it's either going to cost a lot of RF to spawn the needed creepers, or some kind of magic mod that can do it for free. Or some way of making TNT without killing creepers for the gunpowder. Man, I've used nearly all of these generating flowers without external mods. A lot of automating Botania without external mods comes down to mastery of the Crafty Crate. We complained about this before, but the trick is the Corporea Network, red string containers, and abusing the fact that the crafty crate outputs a redstone signal with strength equal to the number of items stored inside it. You don't need to use complex timing circuits when the device itself will perfectly tell you when to insert the next thing. Plus, with the advent of the corporea retainer, you can actually make complex ingredients on demand using subordinate systems. * I actually have a cake farm in my Regrowth world right now that uses no mods other than botania (though i do use storage drawers to store some resources, but this hardly makes the setup more effective.) It's my primary mana generator. Filling milk buckets is on-demand thanks to the corporea interceptor + retainer combo. This would be fully automated if I had enough infrastructure for automated wheat farming, but I don't yet (automated farming in regrowth is hard.) My system can create cakes fast enough to keep two Kekimurus eating constantly, and most of this delay is caused by the delay between an item drop appearing and a hopperhock picking it up. * The rainbow wool flower is super easy to feed. Have an hourglass whose output is disabled unless you have every single color of wool available in the corporea network (use the crystal ball thingies to measure levels.) Then, use a bunch of corporea funnels into open crates to drop wool on the ground in a straight line, and daffomill them into the spectrolus. * For munchdews, just use a separate tree farm. AE makes this flower way the gently caress overpowered (which is fine.) * The gourmaryllis is trivially automated by either a hovering hourglass and a dropper, or by an exoflame/furnace/open crate combo. The time it takes to cook a potato into a baked potato is more than enough cooldown time for the flower, so items get meted out perfectly without any additional infrastructure. * Of these, the thermalilly is probably the only one that can't be automated without outside mods. I know of no way to fill lava buckets automatically from the nether. You can pick up and deploy a single block of lava using a dispenser with a bucket inside, and this works for providing the lava TO the thermalillies, but supplying it is where it falls flat. * Supplying gunpowder for the entropynnium is done with a mob tower, and sand comes from a cobblegen outputting to an alchemy catalyst. Crafty crates assemble TNT very easily. To safely mete out the TNT, use a floating rannucarpus over a wooden or golden pressure plate, and put a matching golden pressure plate in a 1x1x3 obsidian chamber with a redstone torch inside on the very top. Run a lead out from underneath that pressure plate. The entropynnium's mana spreader should fire through a mana detector. Run a lead from the mana detector to a pulse lengthener circuit. OR the pulse lengthener circuit and the pressure plate lead together, then run THAT lead so that when it's on, it disables the hovering hourglass that drops TNT to the rannucarpus. The effect of this is that the TNT won't be able to be deployed when there's one already in the chamber, or if the spreader has fired a mana burst recently. (Okay, this one is tricky.  Also, don't try to use the alchemy catalyst to convert flint into gunpowder; it costs way more mana to do this than the entropynnium generates.)It just takes a little thought to do most of these. Hell, in the Blightfall thread people were stumped on how to automate the Endoflame until I posted a screenshot of the famous hopper/open crate/pressure plate device.
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Nov 8, 2015 13:59
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Thing is, for all that complexity, it only really benefits in the use of Botania and has no major impact outside of the mod. If I setup a complex system to generate RF or autoprocess/build things, those things benefit the majority of mods. For me, the effort put into Rube-Goldberging it up for Botania isn't worth the reward. With a simple Endoflame system I'm pretty much making enough to get a terrasteel ingot every so often and aside from beating on the Guardian of Gaia/harvesting essence, I'm pretty much done with Botania. I've got my Globetrotters Sash, Ring of the Aesir, etc, is there much beyond this that's worth setting up a complex mana generating system?
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Nov 8, 2015 14:38
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CrazyTolradi posted:Thing is, for all that complexity, it only really benefits in the use of Botania and has no major impact outside of the mod. If I setup a complex system to generate RF or autoprocess/build things, those things benefit the majority of mods. For me, the effort put into Rube-Goldberging it up for Botania isn't worth the reward. With a simple Endoflame system I'm pretty much making enough to get a terrasteel ingot every so often and aside from beating on the Guardian of Gaia/harvesting essence, I'm pretty much done with Botania. I've got my Globetrotters Sash, Ring of the Aesir, etc, is there much beyond this that's worth setting up a complex mana generating system? so the worth of the mod is how it best lets you exploit other mods ah hrm yes i see
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Nov 8, 2015 14:50
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Glory of Arioch posted:so the worth of the mod is how it best lets you exploit other mods ah hrm yes i see It's more how it impacts the rest of the game, the game being vanilla MC and all the mods you might happen to load. So yes, I can go full Rube Goldberg on say, 5% of content available to me in a game which has no real impact on the rest of the game or I could keep it simple and spend that effort elsewhere. Like, I get why you like those setups, that's cool, you enjoyed making them and the entire purpose of playing this is to have fun. But don't be surprised by the fact that other people probably won't care to go to those lengths. Is it so horrible that people DARE to want to do things a bit simpler than you?
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Nov 8, 2015 15:20
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CrazyTolradi posted:Because yeah, that's totally the point I was trying to make, cheers. i am not sure if this is a defense of the forever-dayblooms or trying to detract from the more complicated mana production options, but if you're unwilling to build rube goldberg machines, the endoflame continues to exist and scales just fine, if for whatever reason your only reason for including botania is "it has the globetrotter's sash and ring of magnetization"
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Nov 8, 2015 15:33
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My main problem is more that all the setups involving the combination of corporea networks, crafty crates, red strings, and complex redstone, all of which I've pretty much never touched - i've never actually done anything in any mod involving redstone comparators, setting up stuff with 'on' and 'off' is often confusing enough. The mod is really bad at introducing you to all these complex tools and just dumps them all on you at once and then wonders why people are intimidated and huddle with their endoflames and dayblooms. I don't know the average minecraft player, but vanilla redstone beyond the basics is weird and confusing enough already in many cases that it already can be a intimidating, once you start adding all this stuff on top it gets kinda too much. The worst part is when you spend a lot of time and effort putting a big build together and it ends up being a really expensive mana toilet that wastes mana faster than it produces it or just flat out doesn't work and you can't figure out why because it's so incredibly vague and approximate with all the information it's giving you and you have no idea how to fix it so you just wasted a couple hours and a massive amount of resources.
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Nov 8, 2015 16:07
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Wolpertinger posted:My main problem is more that all the setups involving the combination of corporea networks, crafty crates, red strings, and complex redstone, all of which I've pretty much never touched - i've never actually done anything in any mod involving redstone comparators, setting up stuff with 'on' and 'off' is often confusing enough. The mod is really bad at introducing you to all these complex tools and just dumps them all on you at once and then wonders why people are intimidated and huddle with their endoflames and dayblooms. I don't know the average minecraft player, but vanilla redstone beyond the basics is weird and confusing enough already in many cases that it already can be a intimidating, once you start adding all this stuff on top it gets kinda too much. not to be unnecessarily acerbic about it, but if you don't get that stuff, why are you playing botania the whole mod is built around vanilla redstone and rube goldberging things, it's literally why it exists
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Nov 8, 2015 16:13
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Yeah scrub get on his l33t level, you casuals are ruining my mod by not wanting to all in.
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Nov 8, 2015 16:15
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StealthArcher posted:Yeah scrub get on his l33t level, you casuals are ruining my mod by not wanting to all in. that's not what i said at all  i don't play forestry because it has a super complicated and grindy bee system, but i get that other people like that thing botania's the same way, if you don't like to do the thing the mod is built to do, why install it
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Nov 8, 2015 16:17
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Glory of Arioch posted:that's not what i said at all Maybe because "what the mod is built to do" totally doesn't line up with how it's presented (hey, nature magic! so what i mean is actually making mechanized production lines because, yeah, that's what people think when they think nature), and it has some pretty awful documentation for something that's supposed to be so technical. Botania presents the player with a lot of cool incentives to engage with it and gives them a wide variety of tools to do so, but when the player does what seems intuitive (make some dayblooms to start things up, or use hydroangeas with the infinite water trick) they run into some fairly arbitrary stopgaps that the author built in specifically to force the player to do things her way. It's a pretty basic application of taking the ball and going home. Forestry has a lot of grind, but at least it makes sense.
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Nov 8, 2015 17:10
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Kraven Moorhed posted:Maybe because "what the mod is built to do" totally doesn't line up with how it's presented (hey, nature magic! so what i mean is actually making mechanized production lines because, yeah, that's what people think when they think nature), and it has some pretty awful documentation for something that's supposed to be so technical. Setting up a hopper, open crate, and pressure plate is a stopgap?
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Nov 8, 2015 17:29
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On a server, I played in recently, I wanted to get into Botania, because it looked like a cool mod. I had dipped my toes in slightly, playing Regrowth, but I wanted to see where the mod went and try all the bits. I did the usual things, a Daybloom farm, the lava flowers with a MFR fountain and then I looked at the last group of generating flowers. I get the idea in not upgrading the coal-eating flower to a diamond-eating flower to a nethercube-eating flower, but looking at what people do to automate the cake-flower with just botania: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21wLyza082Q Edit: screenshot of materials needed to automate two flowers:  I cant vouch for the level of optimization, but any build that uses a full stack of hoppers, 52 droppers and a stack and a half of tracks to use as a timer hurts me to look at. Sure, AE2 autocrafting, formation and annihilation panes and MFR ranchers will make it nice and compact, with minimal server impact. At some point, you have to judge a mod both on what it does alone and what it does with other mods. A world with just AE2 and vanilla will work fine, but vanilla does not really need the power of AE2 automation and storage. In the big modpacks, AE2 becomes almost a need-to-have, both to keep track of all the million items from everywhere and being able to automate the tedium out of itself and other grindy, 10-crafting-steps, mods. Maimgara fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Nov 8, 2015 |
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Nov 8, 2015 21:04
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Maimgara posted:On a server, I played in recently, I wanted to get into Botania, because it looked like a cool mod. I had dipped my toes in slightly, playing Regrowth, but I wanted to see where the mod went and try all the bits. I did the usual things, a Daybloom farm, the lava flowers with a MFR fountain and then I looked at the last group of generating flowers. I get the idea in not upgrading the coal-eating flower to a diamond-eating flower to a nethercube-eating flower, but looking at what people do to automate the cake-flower with just botania: yeah, riskable's builds are pretty crazy he likes minecarts quite a bit and tends to restrict his builds to pre-alfheim tech when he can, and he only posts builds that use nothing but botania and vanilla redstone he doesn't really understand how to use corporea all that well, which is the main thing -- that minecart abortion he has could be replaced by a bank of corporea funnels and the whole build could be spread out over a much larger amount of space as much as i like the vanilla redstone restrictions, i'll be the first to admit that making the rube goldberg contraptions is a LOT easier with other mods
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Nov 8, 2015 21:17
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Are there no good Progress-like servers out there right now?
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Nov 8, 2015 21:46
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Kraven Moorhed posted:Maybe because "what the mod is built to do" totally doesn't line up with how it's presented (hey, nature magic! so what i mean is actually making mechanized production lines because, yeah, that's what people think when they think nature), and it has some pretty awful documentation for something that's supposed to be so technical. Glory of Arioch posted:Setting up a hopper, open crate, and pressure plate is a stopgap? No, flower decay is a stopgap. Like it's a stopgap I'm okay with but it is unarguably a stopgap to force you to move to more complex flowers. Also I'd definitely agree with Kraven that Botania could really, really use some tutorial-ish stuff on its redstone and corporea stuff. I really like Botania but I've never touched them, partly because making real use of the Redstone stuff, the Corporea stuff, and the Crafty Crate means using all three of them together in ways where they're inter-dependent on each other, and having to learn three disparate systems at the same time before you can get to the fun is not a good thing. For as good as a lot of Botania's documentation in terms of describing the what of everything in it, it's really bad about the how of everything. Having a "Basic Uses" tab in the Lexica would be enormously helpful, because with like 75% of that mod, I read the Lexica article and go "huh, that's interesting. I have absolutely no idea how you would make it into something useful, but it's certainly interesting!" (Arioch you should do some text+image tutorials on Corporea and Redstring  )E: vvvv agreed. I've no idea why I should go into anything beyond an Endoflame farm. Even when I want dick around and try complex systems that feed the more complicated flowers, I have no idea how to even begin to make it happen because I've never touched Redstring or Corporea. Magres fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Nov 8, 2015 |
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Nov 8, 2015 22:21
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Kraven Moorhed posted:Maybe because "what the mod is built to do" totally doesn't line up with how it's presented (hey, nature magic! so what i mean is actually making mechanized production lines because, yeah, that's what people think when they think nature), and it has some pretty awful documentation for something that's supposed to be so technical. Wolpertinger posted:My main problem is more that all the setups involving the combination of corporea networks, crafty crates, red strings, and complex redstone, all of which I've pretty much never touched - i've never actually done anything in any mod involving redstone comparators, setting up stuff with 'on' and 'off' is often confusing enough. The mod is really bad at introducing you to all these complex tools and just dumps them all on you at once and then wonders why people are intimidated and huddle with their endoflames and dayblooms. I don't know the average minecraft player, but vanilla redstone beyond the basics is weird and confusing enough already in many cases that it already can be a intimidating, once you start adding all this stuff on top it gets kinda too much. Glory of Arioch posted:i am not sure if this is a defense of the forever-dayblooms or trying to detract from the more complicated mana production options, but if you're unwilling to build rube goldberg machines, the endoflame continues to exist and scales just fine, if for whatever reason your only reason for including botania is "it has the globetrotter's sash and ring of magnetization" I'd have to say that while the basic documentation in the ingame manual for Botania is not bad (displaying multiblock structures in world is a great thing), it fails entirely when going into specifics. It gives the player a lot of vague information and no real understanding of how a lot of that stuff actually works and why it's good to use it.
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Nov 8, 2015 22:29
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The "why bother" part of Botania is simple -- figuring out how to make a thing work is "supposed" to be the fun part. It's not about what the thing enables, it's about having this puzzle in your mind, going "how do I best take advantage of X," or "how will Y make X easier?", and then either building something that uses the thing, or building something to enable you to use the thing. When the thing works, the feeling of satisfaction for conquering the "puzzle" is where the enjoyment is supposed to come from. The reason why passive flowers get nerfed is because, to the author, the journey is the point of the mod, not the destination. Making gigantic fields of dayblooms is shortchanging the journey to get to the destination. To the author, this attitude, while perfectly understandable from our perspective, is repugnant, so he takes steps to limit it. To put it another way, the fact that a cake-eating flower requires a complicated mechanism to use well is wholly intentional. You're supposed to find pleasure in building the device, not in how it performs when you've built the device. All the goofy, "suboptimal" stuff like the Crafty Crate and the Corporea Network are there to give you additional tools to build the device. All that said, if you're reading that explanation above and going, "wow, that is basically the opposite of how I have fun," then that's perfectly fine. It's not better or worse one way or the other. For me, vanilla redstone is loving awesome. I love building stuff with it. Back before redstone even worked in multiplayer, I built a gigantic complex on my multiplayer server to route trains to everyone's bases. This is why I white knight Botania so hard -- the whole gimmick is basically custom-suited to my interests and why I play the drat game in the first place. At the same time, though, I get why everyone else doesn't think this way. That's the origin of my "why install Botania" comment. It's not supposed to be received as "  ur just too stupid to do Botania", it's more "if you don't derive enjoyment from puzzling out the Rube Goldberg contraption on your own, potentially with self-imposed limitations on your toolset, why are you inflicting suffering on yourself by using a mod whose entire reason for existing is to provide a framework for just that sort of gameplay?" It has nothing to do with how the mod "presents itself," it has to do with its essence. To me, engaging with Botania without enjoying the journey is like installing Forestry and complaining about having to breed bees. It's not like Botania or Forestry do anything inimitable. There are too many mods out there for that to be the case. (I guess this isn't the case for HQM packs like Regrowth.)And, yeah, I oughta write up some stuff about Corporea and Red String. I like the idea of a compendium of sorts that limits itself to text, images, and maybe the odd animated GIF. Youtube tutorials are loving awful.
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Nov 8, 2015 22:56
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Glory of Arioch posted:The reason why passive flowers get nerfed is because, to the author, the journey is the point of the mod, not the destination. Making gigantic fields of dayblooms is shortchanging the journey to get to the destination. To the author, this attitude, while perfectly understandable from our perspective, is repugnant, so he takes steps to limit it. The problem is, this is very much 'my way or the highway' which is why people get up in arms about it, and gregtech, but not about forestry bees. Glory of Arioch posted:Youtube tutorials are loving awful. Completely Agreed. Maiden fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Nov 8, 2015 |
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Nov 8, 2015 23:38
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Basically this. The fun with Minecraft for me is building needlessly complex rube-goldberg machines and then perfecting them over time to make them smaller and more efficient using the tools available to me. Botania is particularly cool because it's magic themed and actually rewards you relatively early with stuff like the sojourners sash and other nifty little quality of life improvements. I don't like the upper tiers of the mod that much because I like to use Thaumcraft or tech mods for really endgame things and Botania's flower theme doesn't really jive with me on that level. It's also been fun introducing these mods to my cousin and his friends and seeing what kind of things the kids can do with it once the basics are explained to them.
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Nov 8, 2015 23:43
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Glory of Arioch posted:not to be unnecessarily acerbic about it, but if you don't get that stuff, why are you playing botania Usually because it's in modpacks I like - and that's the thing, I usually don't really touch botania for that reason beyond a couple of minor essentials that can be fueled with an endoflame, unless I have another mod that trivializes some other flower. I'd LIKE to be able to make rube-goldberg contraptions but it's beyond me and the mod doesn't really make it easy to learn. Wolpertinger fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 01:30
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MFR can help a lot with some of the automation for Botania, if you don't want to faff about with vanilla redstone, as well as the farming that it gets it's name from. The liquicrafter is amazingly useful, as well.
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Nov 9, 2015 02:03
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Glory of Arioch posted:The "why bother" part of Botania is simple -- figuring out how to make a thing work is "supposed" to be the fun part. That's only fun once. Every other time you wind up using the mod, via a new modpack, are you going to set up a massive contraption to feed the complex flowers? Or are you just going to dump charcoal on a few endoflames? I had fun with Botania automating some Entropinnyums, and it was through a combination of TE (pulverizer for sand, Autonomous Activator to kill the creepers, Cyclic Assembler to make the TNT), MFR (autospawning creepers), and AE2 (moving the items around to craft them). I liked the idea of making mana through explosions. Compared to a tree farm, however, it wasn't really worth the effort. Vaskii either needs to make the complicated flowers give way more mana, or just scrap all the simple flowers. Have the entry level flower be the gourmaryllis or something. Or heck, have non-automated flowers be the entry flowers. Thermalilies are actually pretty good if you're not automating flowers at all, because they give a big burst of mana when you feed them lava. After you step into automation they SUCK. McFrugal fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 02:58
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I would agree that just removing Dayblooms and Nightblooms and other passives would be the best solution, it would give the idea of what the mod is supposed to be about if they didn't bother reading the extensive documentation. I don't get the "why would you automate this more than once" argument because well just about all the other mods are about automation and more automation, botania is just providing a new reason to use them other than LOOK AT ALL THIS WHEAT I HAVE NOW WHAT
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Nov 9, 2015 03:03
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McFrugal posted:That's only fun once. Every other time you wind up using the mod, via a new modpack, are you going to set up a massive contraption to feed the complex flowers? Or are you just going to dump charcoal on a few endoflames? I'd probably build the contraption a different way, especially if I learned some new gimmick that worked well for the flower.
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Nov 9, 2015 03:05
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Glory of Arioch posted:Man, I've used nearly all of these generating flowers without external mods. None of these seem worth it VS a simple tree farm/endoflame dropper setup, especially without knowing how much more mana you'd be making, or how much more involvement is required. Endoflames are super simple, and even done totally manually you only need to check in once in a while. It's pretty easy to see why so many people prefer to fall back on those almost entirely. My point is Botania has a lot of broader appeal. It's not solely "a Rube Goldberg mod". There's certainly that aspect to it in regards to some of the higher mana generation, but there's a lot more to Botania than just the flowers that generate mana. And some people, like me, are mostly in it for those other reasons. So again it comes back to this worry that Botania is restructuring and doubling down on this one feature I didn't really care about to begin with, making it harder to get to all the stuff I do like. Thaumcraft is a good parallel: I don't use Thaumcraft golems for pretty much anything, and all the complex possibilities for them I just don't really get into. But I'm totally allowed to pass over golems. They're not required. If Thaumcraft were to update so that everything was gated with golems, or that clever golem setups were required to generate vis in the first place, some people (especially those who really like the golems) would be into it, but I'd just feel shut out. I just don't want Botania to narrow its appeal, because if it really is about these setups I feel like I'm on the fringe for just wanting the cool portals and potions and wands and stuff.
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Nov 9, 2015 04:38
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Vib Rib posted:Obviously we have different standards because to me you basically just said "no it's super possible and even simple to automate these things" and then laid out a bunch of unappealingly complex systems, and even those require other additional setups unmentioned, like a full rainbow wool farm for the wool-eater. The "unmentioned setup" for the Spectrolus is just 16 sheep each dyed a different color, a drum of the gathering, a redstone mana spreader, a hovering hourglass, and a hopperhock feeding into a Corporea Network. Increase throughput by adding more sheep and by putting each sheep in an individual 1x1 fence area (makes the grass grow back faster and dedicates the grass to the sheep.) One thing that always amuses me about the endoflame is that tree farms are actually pretty hard in Botania! Cutting down trees is definitely one of the harder things to automate with just raw Botania, especially in a way that doesn't just poo poo mana around all over the place for no benefit, or in a way that has any actual throughput. However, since other mods like MFR and Thaumcraft make tree farms trivial, they have a lot of synergy with the endoflame. What I don't get is the "appeal" of Botania past the Rube Goldberg stuff. What exactly is there that you can't get elsewhere?
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Nov 9, 2015 06:18
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It seems like everybody here is halfway to some kind of big trees/big flowers mod idea. The mod's name practically writes itself: technical trees.
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Nov 9, 2015 07:46
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Last night i started on oh gamings sky high, (a follow on to Factory Sky 2) I had forgotten the grind.... 4 hours and still only got wood and a couple cobblestone....
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Nov 9, 2015 08:06
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TheresaJayne posted:Last night i started on oh gamings sky high, (a follow on to Factory Sky 2) That is a stupid amount of grind. Let me guess- ex nihilo? Turning saplings to dirt so you can turn the dirt into stones then cobble?
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Nov 9, 2015 09:16
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McFrugal posted:That is a stupid amount of grind. Let me guess- ex nihilo? Turning saplings to dirt so you can turn the dirt into stones then cobble? Yep
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Nov 9, 2015 11:20
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Glory of Arioch posted:What I don't get is the "appeal" of Botania past the Rube Goldberg stuff. The rods/staves are cool. The potion brewing is cool. The special decorative blocks are cool. The alfheim portal and all its related material is cool. The horns and drums, the special block that turns on when you look at it, the abstruse platforms, the endgame items you get from the dice, are all really cool. The functional flowers are pretty neat, and while many of them are designed to help automation, many others are useful in and of themselves. Hell, I even think a lot of things about the mana-generating flowers are cool, from the diversity of their functions to the actual implementation in things like how the mana and spreader systems work, even the pools themselves. I just don't care about setting up elaborate redstone/hourglass/dropper/crate/crafter trigger systems to automatically keep them fueled.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:56
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I'm fine with that, it just means I'll start cribbing solutions from other more insane people like Arioch. It's not a grind to collect the materials in the way that Gregtech goes bonkers with so the knowledge you pick up while farting around with it is retained for future modpacks. It's like working up from "My First Automated Ore Processing" in TE. Now it's just ingrained in me how the simple iteration goes in and I tend to go deeper into parallelization and optimizing space nowadays.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:19
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   1.1 million RF/t, 3.3 mB/t fuel usage. Peak 5.3 million RF/t 357.0 mB/t fuel usage (7,140 yellorium ingots per. second.) Ak Gara fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 16:35
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What are you powering with all of that? The fleet of mining lasers you need to keep it running? ...How many turbines would you need for active cooling mode?
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Nov 9, 2015 16:42
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Glory of Arioch posted:What I don't get is the "appeal" of Botania past the Rube Goldberg stuff. What exactly is there that you can't get elsewhere? I found the botania floating hourglass thing to be invaluable, but mostly for automating within botania itself. The drum, likewise. I really liked the potions and the incense. The sash, the terra blade shoots laser beams which is neat, the duplication/transformation is really useful in a modpack. The terrasteel armor converting damage to mana is neat I but it's a bit expensive until you're post-scarcity, especially in terms of mana requirements. Hopperhocks are a neat tool, I've grown to like them. I keep thinking the optional blocks you can walk/jump through but also support your weight would be useful but I keep forgetting to try them out. Other than that, uh.... there are a bunch of items that I think might be cool but the no-stats thing make it a tossup to see if I want to spend serious resources on them. Rings that regenerate mana. OK cool. How fast? If it's a trickle, it's not even worthwhile. Oh it requires terrasteel? Too hard to make, can't risk it on a maybe. That necklace that gives you a potion effect - equally cool. I'd like to have regen or haste all the time. But does it drain mana like crazy? Bhodi fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 16:56
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Nolanar posted:What are you powering with all of that? The fleet of mining lasers you need to keep it running? I think it would take over 40 turbines to match that sustainable power, 207 to match the peak power. And yeah it's for mining lasers. But mostly I wanted to see how high I could get the reactivity. I don't know what the limit is but I don't think I'll get it over 885% My 64x64x64 kept running into a weird OpenGL crashing issues so I had to scale it back to 64x64x48 tall. Ak Gara fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 17:17
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Alright so here's a quick and dirty writeup of the Corporea Network. THE CORPOREA NETWORK  (a screenshot from my build in progress for the Rune Crafter challenge) The Corporea Network is a swiss army knife for dealing with moving items; Botania's answer to emulate itemducts. It's a complex and powerful feature that enables automation of a lot of different Botania stuff. The Corporea Network has a number of strengths and weaknesses, and while it's no Applied Energistics, it can be pretty darn powerful if you use it right. Strengths: * No wires, no pipes. As long as there's a path of sparks from point A to point B, the network is connected. * Works and plays well with other mods. Storage Drawers can expose an entire bank of drawers to the Corporea Network with a single spark on a controller/slave, and (while I haven't tried it yet) a single spark on an ME interface can supposedly expose your entire AE network to Corporea. * Can pull items from multiple source inventories without issue, though some storage methods (storage drawers, TE caches) don't tell the world the true number of items they have available. * Can perform limited on-demand crafting. * Requires no RF power whatsoever, and, depending on what you're making, no investment in mana either. Weaknesses: * No item sorting or item input automation. Hope you like hoppers! While you can sort items using vanilla redstone, now that the Corporea Crystal Cube lets you poll the entire network, there's really no reason to do this other than OCD. * Requires significant redstone circuitry to be useful. * On-demand crafting doesn't currently expose the number of requested items, it just emits a binary redstone pulse. * Requires a lot of Blaze Powder to craft. I am thinking of expanding my Blaze Essence farm on my Regrowth map from 16 to 32 squares just to feed my need for sparks. * The texture of the Corporea Funnel makes it hard to see if there's a piece of redstone dust on top. * Post-alfheim, Post-The-End content. Doesn't help you automate a beginning gourmaryllis potato farm. ITEMS: Corporea Sparks: These form the network. You put them on top of inventories (like chests) and on the other Corporea stuff. Inventories that have a spark on them have their items exposed to the network. Right click with a wand of the forest to show connections between sparks. (This lets you make sure you didn't place something too far away.) Shift-Right-Click to remove the spark. You can dye sparks to form subnetworks. Sparks will only connect to those of the same color. I've only really used this once. Each network needs a Master Corporea Spark. I am not really sure why. I guess it made it easier to code. For whatever reason, the inventory the Master spark is attached to doesn't get exposed to the network, so I usually just slap these on an unused chest, or a piece of infrastructure like a Funnel or Crystal Cube. Corporea Funnel (click for animated gif): This is the workhorse of Corporea. Put this block one or two blocks above some sort of inventory, like a chest, hopper, or open crate. Slap an Item Frame (make lots of these) onto the side of it, then put an item in the frame. When this block gets a redstone signal, it will try to pull one of the item in the item frame from the network and place it into the inventory below it. If it can't find one, it just ejects the item into the air above it. (This works well for Rannucarpuses, if you don't care about detecting the item's existence on a pressure plate.) By default, the Funnel drops one item. Right clicking on the Item Frame with an empty hand will rotate the item; this increases the amount of items requested to 16 for one turn, 32 for the second turn, 64 for the third turn, and back to 1 for the fourth turn (which resets the position.) Applications: * Insert seeds/potatoes into a dispenser, then immediately plant them. * Insert items into a Crafty Crate (using Red String Containers to increase the surface area of the Crate.) * Dispense items for a Rannucarpus to place, like cake for a Kekimurus. * Drop empty buckets onto cows, then use a Drum of the Gathering to fill the buckets with milk. Corporea Crystal Cube (click for animated gif): Crystal Cubes visually monitor the amount of a single item in the network. They're the equivalent of the ME Conversion Monitor from Applied Energistics. Right click with any item to set the cube to monitor that item. Left click to get one of the displayed item out of the network; shift left click for a stack. This block wasn't all that useful until a few patches ago, where it gained the ability to be read by a redstone comparator. When so equipped, the comparator outputs an analog signal describing the number of items in the network, on a logarithmic scale. (If signal strength is x, the amount of items in the network, y is y = 2^(x-1), with y=0 at x=0.) Even if you don't try to mess with analog redstone to count items exactly, you can at least know that if the signal is on, there's at least one; off, no items. Combine this with an Edge Detector to send pulses when the network acquires or empties of a particular item. Checking for particular amounts of an item requires advanced comparator usage, which I won't go into right now. Applications: * Shut off an automated system if the number of a particular item fall below acceptable levels. I usually use redstone repeaters in the signal locking mode to do this. (The lead coming out of the crystal cube goes into the repeater feeding into the side of the locked repeater.) * Trigger part of a multi-stage process once there are sufficient numbers of a particular item in the network. (Edge detectors work great for this.) * Give yourself a way to see how many items are in the network. * Manual instantiation of on-demand crafting. Corporea Index (click for animated gif): This item is a human interface for the Corporea Network. When standing next to it, it intercepts all messages sent to the chat, and pulls items from the network based on what you typed. I don't really know the grammar too well, but there's a description of the grammar in the Lexica Botania. You can both request items and ask how many of an item is in the network. Has tab completion for item names. Corporea Interceptor (click for animated gif): The Interceptor is part of a binary pair that enables on-demand crafting of items. When a request is made to the network, and the network doesn't have any of that item, a corporea interceptor with that particular item on an item frame attached to it will emit a redstone pulse. With this pulse, you can start a sub-process to craft the item in question, or some other silly effect. Pairs with the Corporea Retainer. Applications: * Fill milk buckets on demand. The interceptor lead runs to a bank of empty bucket funnels, which drop the buckets on top of the cows and fires a redstone mana spreader at a drum of the gathering. * Use in combination with an RS-NOR latch to light up a lamp when you're out of a particular item. * Shoot fireworks for demonstration purposes. Corporea Retainer (click for animated gif): This is the other half of the interceptor pair. Corporea Retainers sit next to an interceptor, and don't require a spark. This block remembers the last request that a Corporea Interceptor made. When given a redstone signal, it tells the network to re-run that request. A comparator reading the retainer will also output a binary signal if the retainer is currently holding a request. This combination allows you to craft items on-demand. It has some significant weaknesses, though. Chief of these weaknesses is that there's no way to know how many items were requested. Also, it can't handle multiple requests at the same time. However, when part of a contained system, it can be used very effectively. I use these to handle crafting of milk buckets for my cake farm. --- So clear as mud, right? Hopefully this gives y'all some ideas on how to use Corporea. It certainly doesn't compare to Applied Energistics, but it's still pretty flexible.
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Nov 9, 2015 17:24
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If the crafty crate didn't require so much space to make a recipe, I think I'd like it better than AE autocrafting. You said it requires post-end and post-guardian, what are the mats required that makes it post-end?
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Nov 9, 2015 17:44
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Bhodi posted:If the crafty crate didn't require so much space to make a recipe, I think I'd like it better than AE autocrafting. Bottles of ender air, IIRC
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Nov 9, 2015 17:50
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| # ? May 14, 2024 11:58 |
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Bhodi posted:If the crafty crate didn't require so much space to make a recipe, I think I'd like it better than AE autocrafting. Post-Alfheim, not post-guardian.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:06
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