|
MrBling posted:Can someone explain how this works. If you declare or join an offensive war against anyone that your country has 100+ relations with you get a -1 stability hit. So in this case I assume Castile has over 100 opinon of France.
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2015 16:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 09:00 |
|
|
Hryme posted:If you declare or join an offensive war against anyone that your country has 100+ relations with you get a -1 stability hit. So in this case I assume Castile has over 100 opinon of France. Really? Is that a new thing? I guess I never came across that since I tend to not attack nations that like me that much.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2015 16:37
|
|
|
I don't think it is new. But I can't be certain if it got patched in at some point.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2015 16:38
|
|
|
I vaguely recall having to send insults to enemies in EU3 before accepting allies' war requests so I don't think it's new
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2015 16:39
|
|
|
MrBling posted:Really? Is that a new thing? I guess I never came across that since I tend to not attack nations that like me that much. It's been around as far back as I can remember, I think even back to EU3.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2015 16:53
|
|
|
Guess I've never felt the inclination to attack people that like me that much then. Literally never came across it until now.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2015 16:59
|
|
|
MrBling posted:Guess I've never felt the inclination to attack people that like me that much then. I find you run into it either when you get a mission, or trying to find the weak link of an alliance chain to get your intended target in.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2015 17:16
|
|
|
The Christian Ottoman WC chat inspired me to try that out, I'd forgotten just how strong the Ottomans are out of the gate holy poo poo. ~1500, Otto Mann dressed for success:  Flipped Catholic, was actually more of a headache than I'd anticipated since Aq Qoyunlu also war dec'd Mamluks while I was fighting them and occupied the one Catholic province, thankfully they didn't take it but it drug the war out way too long. Then Hungary + Austria seized the opportunity to attack me with 8k manpower and Catholic rebels raging but they were surprisingly easy to beat. Vienna's separatism will wear off a little before 1520 so I'm all set to Westernize. Broke the Mamluks, QQ, and Timurids beyond repair. Almost immediately after I released Persia from Ilam in a war with QQ, there were massive Persian Separatist revolts in Timurids so I lucked into most of Persia for "free." France is my bro. Question for players that have done WCs, would I be better off taking Religious or Humanist? Obviously Humanist fits really well with Ottoman NIs and if I flip Protestant I can have both Heretics and Heathens at +3 Tolerance, so I'd be able to expand almost revolt-free. On the other hand that leaves me without any good CBs and the thought of conquering through Asia relying on fabricate claims... ugh. Religious would mean routine small revolts in conquered and converting provinces, but that shouldn't be an issue with the Ottoman military and would make rapid expansion smooth as butter with the CB. I currently have Admin, Influence, looking to take Humanist or Religious third.
|
|
#
?
Nov 8, 2015 21:28
|
|
|
Pellisworth posted:The Christian Ottoman WC chat inspired me to try that out, I'd forgotten just how strong the Ottomans are out of the gate holy poo poo. When I did this, I took humanist. The biggest deal is the -years of separatism. Combine tolerance, -separatism, and raised autonomy and you can make rebellions depend entirely on whether or not your WE is rising. Since you're not using DIP for anything, your WE should never be rising. e: that last part is sort of a joke, though. Don't tank your DIP too hard. You need to get your DIP tech up to 22 for the magical CBs.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 00:04
|
|
|
Dibujante posted:When I did this, I took humanist. The biggest deal is the -years of separatism. Combine tolerance, -separatism, and raised autonomy and you can make rebellions depend entirely on whether or not your WE is rising. Since you're not using DIP for anything, your WE should never be rising. Yeah with Humanist I should be able to just conquer, raise autonomy, and carry on without too much fuss. I don't really have an issue with WE since I almost always take DotF and that usually covers it. Mainly I was wanting that sweet sweet Holy War CB. The mean green coring machine shouldn't have to wait on claims to fabricate to go to war  How big a deal is it losing the Janissaries? I just went into a regency in 1510, my heir is pretty lovely and will start the Decadence disaster ticking. Do I just go to war with Muscovy or someone big and try to build up my AT, make him a general and hope he bites it? I can keep it around 50 no problem but maintaining 70 is going to be tough. Edit: current screenshot. I have another five years of regency, mostly just been smashing into the hordes. Europe was pretty unhappy with me taking Vienna and annexing all the Mediterranean minors so been focused on the hordes. I could go after Spain (who has the Iberian Wedding PUs, maybe I can break some of those) but France is allied to them. Muscovy would be pretty easy, no friends. 
Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Nov 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 00:09
|
|
|
Is diplo-annexing not a thing in WC runs then? I'm only on my first few games so I wouldn't know, but I would have thought you'd want to balance your province acquisition expenditures between ADM and DIP points.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 00:11
|
|
|
Pellisworth posted:The Christian Ottoman WC chat inspired me to try that out, I'd forgotten just how strong the Ottomans are out of the gate holy poo poo. If you're going to WC I'd say Religious is definitely the way to go. You'll have enough troops to just crush any unrest. And religious homogeneity and TotTF is ultimately better than tolerance.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 00:14
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
Redmark posted:Is diplo-annexing not a thing in WC runs then? I'm only on my first few games so I wouldn't know, but I would have thought you'd want to balance your province acquisition expenditures between ADM and DIP points. It isn't when you're the Ottomans and rocking that -33% coring discount. Diplo-annexing takes a lot of time, your dip rep is lowered by overextension which you'll have almost constantly which slows it down further. It also ties up diplomats which you want a couple of free. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Administrative Efficiency doesn't discount diplo-annexation, so once you start unlocking that after 1600 coring is just plain cheaper. Edit: expansion by vassal feeding isn't really terribly efficient imo. Mainly you want to do that with vassals that have a ton of cores or good ideas whom you'll benefit from having around for a while. The exception is if you have an inheritance nation-forming decision like Poland or Castile. PittTheElder posted:If you're going to WC I'd say Religious is definitely the way to go. You'll have enough troops to just crush any unrest. And religious homogeneity and TotTF is ultimately better than tolerance. Yeah that's where I was leaning. I need that drat CB, sending diplomats to fabricate claims to get a Conquest CB is slowing me down noticeably. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Nov 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 00:17
|
|
|
Not to mention that cultural conversion is better than cultural acceptance for such a large empire.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 00:30
|
|
|
So how bad of an idea is it to take both relgious and humanist in my Ven->Byz game? I took religious early for the great CB but now around tech 17 I'm thinking the separatism bonus would be helpful as I continue to push out. I'm sure it's not optimal but is there any reason it's a particularly bad idea?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 00:35
|
|
|
Palleon posted:So how bad of an idea is it to take both relgious and humanist in my Ven->Byz game? I took religious early for the great CB but now around tech 17 I'm thinking the separatism bonus would be helpful as I continue to push out. I'm sure it's not optimal but is there any reason it's a particularly bad idea? I honestly wouldn't have even taken Religious, probably. You get crazy Missionary Strength from Patriarch Authority and Byzantine NIs, very high Tolerance of the True Faith, plus lots of missionaries from conquering Jerusalem, Mecca, and Rome. Separatism just lower autonomy and have a stack on hand to kill the revolt. Convert everything immediately, you'll usually trigger a small revolt in each new chunk of land you grab but you should have no problem dealing with it. It's not a *bad* option for you, but like you say is not really "optimal."
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 00:51
|
|
|
-They're both admin ideas so you have to sink a lot of admin points that could be used for coring, tech, or other good idea groups -They have no shared policy -Using the benefits of the religious group eliminates the benefits of the humanist group At the end of the day, you're paying 2800 admin points for -2 RR, -5 separatism, and -10% idea costs. Is that worth it to you?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 00:53
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:If you're going to WC I'd say Religious is definitely the way to go. You'll have enough troops to just crush any unrest. And religious homogeneity and TotTF is ultimately better than tolerance. Did they remove the -stability events the Ottomans get for taking religious?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 02:58
|
|
|
You do not want religious OR humanist as Venice to byz. Take admin and rush the coring cost idea as soon as possible. Byz is a blobbing nation, you want cheaper cores as soon as you can. Getting a CB isn't hard
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 03:18
|
|
|
Average Bear posted:You do not want religious OR humanist as Venice to byz. Take admin and rush the coring cost idea as soon as possible. Byz is a blobbing nation, you want cheaper cores as soon as you can. Getting a CB isn't hard Personally I don't usually take Humanist or Religious on most nations, autonomy and the new revolt system plus changes to how missionary strength is affected by development in CS make it pretty easy to manage unless you're monster blobbing into off-religion territory. Then you want Religious. Edit: like, the +3% Missionary Strength is not the most attractive part of Religious. It's great but I would say what's most valuable there are the first two ideas, that amazing blanket CB (assuming you're a minority religion it's fantastic) and +1 Missionary. Most nations/religions can cobble together some decent missionary strength, it's the extra missionary that's hugely valuable if you're expanding rapidly. The missionary is especially valuable if you're one of the non-Christian/Muslim religions ineligible for DotF and bonus missionaries from Mecca and Jerusalem. The rest is just gravy. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Nov 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 03:37
|
|
|
When I take the no-internal wars reform for HRE, do I lose the .1% monthly bonus for being at peace? I'm assuming so.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:02
|
|
|
Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:When I take the no-internal wars reform for HRE, do I lose the .1% monthly bonus for being at peace? I'm assuming so. No, you do not lose the empire at peace IA bonus
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:12
|
|
|
mornhaven posted:Did they remove the -stability events the Ottomans get for taking religious? I do not think any such events ever existed. Certainly I cannot see any in the files.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:19
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:Not to mention that cultural conversion is better than cultural acceptance for such a large empire. This is 100% wrong and you should never be culture converting anything
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:22
|
|
|
Pellisworth posted:Mainly I was wanting that sweet sweet Holy War CB. The mean green coring machine shouldn't have to wait on claims to fabricate to go to war I fabbed claims until I got Imperialism  Also, I never enacted the Janissaries. My run could have been improved substantially. So the bar is low!
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:25
|
|
|
Yashichi posted:This is 100% wrong and you should never be culture converting anything Agree generally, imo culture conversion is about as useful as buying development. A point dump, not completely useless but not worth getting bonuses for and trying to emphasize because the return on investment is almost always terrible. That said, having accepted cultures as a large empire is also pretty unimportant, particularly for Orthodox. You don't give much of a poo poo about tax income and the manpower penalty is additive. Buildings can give +100%, off-culture is -33% oh no. This is all sort of from a power-gamey "get huge" perspective though. Humanist is a great idea group, but a lot less so for hugeass empires.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:26
|
|
|
Yashichi posted:This is 100% wrong and you should never be culture converting anything Pretty much, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:28
|
|
|
People underestimate religious every time. With the CB you can take every province of a nation that doesn't share your religion for 0 diplo points, plus it's a 25% AE CB. This saves hundreds of diplo points every war and tons of AE, not to mention all the potential AE you'd get for fabricating claims.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:29
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:I do not think any such events ever existed. Certainly I cannot see any in the files. There are religious events that give negative stability, but they are not exclusive to the Ottomans, they can affect anyone that takes the idea group.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:32
|
|
|
Tsyni posted:People underestimate religious every time. With the CB you can take every province of a nation that doesn't share your religion for 0 diplo points, plus it's a 25% AE CB. This saves hundreds of diplo points every war and tons of AE, not to mention all the potential AE you'd get for fabricating claims. Are you sure about that? Shows as a 75% AE, 125% Prestige, 100% Warscore cost for me Holy War isn't the most efficient CB, it's just really versatile. Edit: Expansion CB I find most useful for breaking up blobs since you can force release of nations for very cheap. In terms of actual conquering, Expansion isn't all that much better than Religious since overextension is more of an issue than warscore and AE where Expansion CB is applicable. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Nov 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:36
|
|
|
Pellisworth posted:Personally I don't usually take Humanist or Religious on most nations, autonomy and the new revolt system plus changes to how missionary strength is affected by development in CS make it pretty easy to manage unless you're monster blobbing into off-religion territory. Then you want Religious. +1 missionary is huge, it's way better than the +3% missionary strength for all but those few high-development provinces. But even for those you have the advisor and mission rewards. Anyway if you're really monster blobbing you want to LOWER autonomy, you'll be at war often enough that autonomy won't lower naturally. If the revolt risk is 10%, then it may as well be 20%, because they're going to revolt anyway and when they do you'll get a -20% revolt risk. You can either raise autonomy and get no rebels, or lower autonomy and get rebels, but then you'll only have to fight a 12-stack or two for effectively 50% less autonomy across all affected provinces. That's huge. Plus, as DDRJake showed off in his latest stream, that too can be gamed - say you grab half of Crimea and Lithuania grabs the other half. If you get Crimean rebels, they'll siege your provinces first, but then they'll cross the border and the AI will fight them for you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:36
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:I do not think any such events ever existed. Certainly I cannot see any in the files. I guess I've only see it come up for the Ottomans, the text made it seem like it was Ottoman specific. But it was quite a while ago, pre Common Sense, so I probably misremembered it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:37
|
|
|
Pellisworth posted:Are you sure about that? Shows as a 75% AE, 125% Prestige, 100% Warscore cost for me Oops, you're right. Combine this with the fact that the Conquest CB gives you a 75% reduction only on provinces you have a claim on and you see a giant AE reduction using the holy war CB.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:42
|
|
|
Tsyni posted:Oops, you're right. Combine this with the fact that the Conquest CB gives you a 75% reduction only on provinces you have a claim on and you see a giant AE reduction using the holy war CB. Yeah combine that with the fact that claims are -10% coring cost now instead of -25% and it's easier to just use Holy War and clown someone for whatever provinces you want than to spend a bunch of diplomat time (and potential AE from fabricating, though that's a lot smaller now).
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:49
|
|
|
deathbagel posted:There are religious events that give negative stability, but they are not exclusive to the Ottomans, they can affect anyone that takes the idea group. There are, although there are also 4 equally likely events that give positive stability.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 04:59
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:There are, although there are also 4 equally likely events that give positive stability. True, and there are more positive stability events than negative ones, but I swear whenever I take religious ideas I get nothing but the negative stability events. I know it's just perception, but that doesn't stop me from hating religious ideas.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 05:13
|
|
|
My go-to ideas for GETTIN SWOLE, varies depending on situation but: Administrative, Religious, Expansion Influence, Exploration, Diplomatic Defensive, Quantity, Quality, Offensive Edit: not that other idea groups are bad, for me they're just very niche. Those would be my all-around winners. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Nov 9, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 05:23
|
|
|
My dream set of eight ideas for GETTIN SWOLE: Quantity, Quantity, Quantity, Quantity, Quantity, Quantity, Quantity, then Quantity.
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 05:37
|
|
|
Node posted:My dream set of eight ideas for GETTIN SWOLE: Quantity, Quantity, Quantity, Quantity, Quantity, Quantity, Quantity, then Quantity. um, are you telling me size matters??
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 05:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 09:00 |
|
|
Pellisworth posted:um, are you telling me size matters?? Who cares about stupid poo poo like military tactics and troops that use guns when you have eighty billion men?
|
|
#
?
Nov 9, 2015 05:48
|
|