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Abandoned Toaster posted:And right on a screen where the game is trying to teach you about another language! If there was a broader context for that discussion, I didn't explore it. He pitched a fit when everybody left him behind on 'Enemy Below', during which he claimed to be 'guarding the rear' from about 45 paces back and humping a cave wall. He was not, as you might initially guess, playing the elf!
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Nov 9, 2015 08:09
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Fine. I'll drink it 
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Nov 9, 2015 08:43
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What's the rat ogre general strategy? If my team has bombs, we generally do ok, but it hits like a truck and you cant range kite it like in l4d. When it spends a lot of time facing away from me, I can wail away on the back, but there doesn't seem to be a way to reliably replicate that situation.
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Nov 9, 2015 09:10
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MoreLikeTen posted:What's the rat ogre general strategy? If my team has bombs, we generally do ok, but it hits like a truck and you cant range kite it like in l4d. When it spends a lot of time facing away from me, I can wail away on the back, but there doesn't seem to be a way to reliably replicate that situation. The key is for whoever he's looking at to block (and dodge if he does the ground pound, as you can't block the double-fist smash) while everyone else whales on his back, then when he switches targets that person blocks and dodges while the beatings continue until the rogre is dead. This is complicated by other rats biting your ankles while you try to do this.
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Nov 9, 2015 09:15
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Is there a particular tell for which attack the rogre is about to do? In general I can get through a rogre fight pretty well if he just knockbacks and I block, but sometimes he does this awkward poke attack that leaves you on 1/2 a stamina and seems to take off over half your hp if you are blocking.
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Nov 9, 2015 11:58
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If he raises both fists you need to dodge back. Otherwise he just swings with one fist and you can block it (Or dodge back) Don't try to range the Rat Ogre unless you have a high DPS ranged weapon like the Witch Hunters Pistols. Sitting back firing your Handgun at it is useless, get in there and melee it. Killing the little rats comes first. You can afford to ignore the rat ogre since it's easy to mitigate the damage. The little rats on the other hand will gently caress you up, kill them first.
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Nov 9, 2015 13:47
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MoreLikeTen posted:What's the rat ogre general strategy? If my team has bombs, we generally do ok, but it hits like a truck and you cant range kite it like in l4d. When it spends a lot of time facing away from me, I can wail away on the back, but there doesn't seem to be a way to reliably replicate that situation. Ideally, you need control and sheer DPS. Control means the Dwarf and Soldier trading the aggro as often as possible while keeping their rifles loaded and reserved for special spawns. Witchhunter needs to have been given and kept the first strength potion you found on the map and to have kept his ammo above 40. He then needs to chug the potion and dump his entire pistol brace into the Rat Ogre. Noone else even comes close to Saltzpyre's ranged damage output. 4th player needs to be in close, rezzing the Dwarf and Soldier, managing trash spawns, then taking some melee swipes at the Ogres back. The very worst thing you can do is treat him like an L4D tank where every player pulls out their ranged weapon because they're scared of him and backpedals in 4 different directions while screeching "Stick with the team guys". Most ranged weapons have lower DPS than melee, long reloads during which you are helpless to remove packmasters/gutter runners, and don't have a block button meaning you will get facepunched a whole lot.
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Nov 9, 2015 13:59
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MoreLikeTen posted:What's the rat ogre general strategy? If my team has bombs, we generally do ok, but it hits like a truck and you cant range kite it like in l4d. When it spends a lot of time facing away from me, I can wail away on the back, but there doesn't seem to be a way to reliably replicate that situation. If you pop a strength potion before you hit him with your nades it will do bulk damage. But yeah as other people said don't try to treat it like a Tank from L4D, unless you are a Witch Hunter with pistols, Bright Wizard with Beam or a dwarf with one of those bullshit scavenger/regeneration Grudge-Takers get your sword and hit it.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:02
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Senethro posted:Noone else even comes close to Saltzpyre's ranged damage output Actually with a Strength potion the Beam Staff does come close. Don't know why as it's not that strong usually.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:05
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Which ends up doing more damage in the same time, strength boosted pistols or speed? The ability to just dump a whole brace into the rogre in seconds is pretty nice.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:12
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Ravenfood posted:Which ends up doing more damage in the same time, strength boosted pistols or speed? The ability to just dump a whole brace into the rogre in seconds is pretty nice. Damage might be similar, not sure. However speed potion means you just drink ammo.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:20
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xthetenth posted:Damage might be similar, not sure. However speed potion means you just drink ammo. One of our guys, who likes playing saltzpyre, has a trinket that spreads his potion buff to everyone around him, which seems to work quite nicely with the bomb it strategy. I guess looking at it it is the clanrats who show up during the fight that wreck us. Or when the game just decides to kill us like sending a stromvermin patrol at us while fighting the ogre, or the time we had two hook rats and a gutter runner while fighting one. The game does have a tendency to occasionally go into gently caress You mode and throw incredible odds at you.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:24
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What's the pro strat for well watcher on nightmare/cata? It's hard.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:28
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NickBlasta posted:What's the pro strat for well watcher on nightmare/cata? It's hard. Be the Bright Wizard. 
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Nov 9, 2015 14:38
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Phrosphor posted:The game does have a tendency to occasionally go into gently caress You mode and throw incredible odds at you. For me, this has the effect of adding tension to every encounter. You may have done a million horn runs, but any one could be the one that wrecks you if you aren't careful
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Nov 9, 2015 15:13
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I had a disastrous string of runs last night. Out of maybe 8 or 10 games we finished 2 or 3. It was mostly due to unlucky special spawning with some other factors thrown in. Game still fun
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Nov 9, 2015 15:16
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Vargs posted:Yeah, same boat for me. I took a break for a few days while my sister was visiting and now with Fallout just around the corner, I think I'm done. Put a ton of time into the game and had a lot of fun though, so I have no complaints. Vargs noooooo
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Nov 9, 2015 15:17
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I know it comes up a lot but is there a decent strategy to beat wheat and chaff? We have decent items and can play the game well enough on nightmare but even normal wheat and chaff is always an utter failure for us. I don't think we've even got one sack to the cart before dying in about 10 attempts.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:21
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Mr Cuddles posted:I know it comes up a lot but is there a decent strategy to beat wheat and chaff? We have decent items and can play the game well enough on nightmare but even normal wheat and chaff is always an utter failure for us. I don't think we've even got one sack to the cart before dying in about 10 attempts. keep killing the stormvermin. no seriously, you need someone to bring an all-AP loadout (eg soldier with warhammer/musket) and ignore every other rat (slaves, hookrats, even rat ogres) to keep the stormvermin numbers below 1 at all times. Otherwise you'll lose all your melee dudes because while they are m1ing away hordes of rats the stormvermin will just tank the melee swings and either a) kill people themselves or b) shove them and set them up for taking heaps of hits like if you overextended in the witcher
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Nov 9, 2015 15:32
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Keep moving, as well. Hell, if you find yourself alone and the other three are fighting, go get some bags. The groups I've been in where it goes bad are the ones where people stand and fight instead of doing a moving engagement.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:34
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Mr Cuddles posted:I know it comes up a lot but is there a decent strategy to beat wheat and chaff? We have decent items and can play the game well enough on nightmare but even normal wheat and chaff is always an utter failure for us. I don't think we've even got one sack to the cart before dying in about 10 attempts. We've only ever managed it on hard so far, but the main thing to get right was syncing up our movements to the timing of the waves. Arm up with health packs and fight off the first wave right in the first house in front of the spawn. Use the break to move to the barn with the sacks across the bridge, throw them out, and hole up to fight off the second wave there, followed by the rat ogre. Use the next break to move the sacks to the cart and maybe move over to the homestead on the left, rinse and repeat there. The last pair of sacks you might manage to get in a single break. The important part is to always fight holed up in a house and only move in the open between waves. It's also very helpful to have at least two and ideally three people around who can kill stormvermin at range in a hurry, i.e. handguns and maybe an elf.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:35
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Perestroika posted:We've only ever managed it on hard so far, but the main thing to get right was syncing up our movements to the timing of the waves. Arm up with health packs and fight off the first wave right in the first house in front of the spawn. Use the break to move to the barn with the sacks across the bridge, throw them out, and hole up to fight off the second wave there, followed by the rat ogre. Use the next break to move the sacks to the cart and maybe move over to the homestead on the left, rinse and repeat there. The last pair of sacks you might manage to get in a single break. The important part is to always fight holed up in a house and only move in the open between waves. It's also very helpful to have at least two and ideally three people around who can kill stormvermin at range in a hurry, i.e. handguns and maybe an elf. Yeah, it's a finicky trick but the best I've seen is always fight the real waves turtled and always be moving when it isn't a wave.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:39
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If a rat ogre spawns lure it into the carriage and lose the door. It wont be able to get out and you can still throw the food into the cart
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Nov 9, 2015 15:39
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Looks like meat's back on the table.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:46
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Something about the elf just doesn't feel right to me, I've only played a few games with her and I still only have a white longbow and green sword/dagger with a basically nonexistent effect but I can never hit anything with the longbow and when I do it doesn't do nearly as much damage as the dwarf's or witch hunter's crossbow. Then her melee weapons have never felt as effective as anyone else's of the same quality. For some reason zooming in for charged shots (which are the only thing that does enough damage with the longbow) also seems to drop my frame rate pretty consistently which makes it really hard to hit things. The pistols don't zoom so I don't have that problem with them. Of course I don't really mind having the elf be my least favorite character because she's terrible and I hate her and never want her in any of my games. With the other 4 characters it's just an enjoyable romp through the rat apocalypse, when the elf is there nobody gets to have any fun before she shuts it down with some dumbshit line about how much better she is than everyone else (ironically before the elf player dies because the elf player is usually bad, especially if they're me). Actually can you mod this game. Can you replace all of the elf's lines with a foghorn sound.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:49
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NickBlasta posted:What's the pro strat for well watcher on nightmare/cata? It's hard. I can't say the following is the best way to do things, but it's worked twice on nightmare with pubs. Scavenge the area around the first well and then ditch it as soon as possible. The vertical drop from the spawns have a potion or bomb. The building to the left of the drop has 2 items, usually medicine. The building around the well has 2 spawns and a chest on the second floor, with 2 more spawns on the roof. One can be an ammo crate. The pig pen to the side of the usually has a healing item or an ammo crate. Take the poo poo you can carry and ditch the first well. The rats come from more manageable directions near the second one. Fight them at the bottom or top of the ramp depending on how much space you need. Rats only rarely spawn at the backside of the well, so as long as one guy is aware of it, the rest of you can work on the ramp. Specials tend to come from behind the building at the back though. The second well has 3 item spawns near the terrace at the front of the ramp, and 1 at the top of the ladder at the back of the well. The back-alley past the terrace can hold items too, but it's hard to move around there alone. Avoid it unless you're desperate. Save ammo for globadiers and ratling gunners, and bring someone with a beam staff. Gunners are bad, and globadiers exist to end Well Watch. Fight the rat ogre near the bottom of the ramp. You need the open space, and regular rats spawn pretty far away from there. You should be able to hold off storm vermin on the ramp if someone brought a shield. If you want to try cheesing it, there's a tiny room with two exits at ground level near the first well. It isn't terrible, but I really think the ramp at the second well is safer.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:52
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Fans posted:Don't try to range the Rat Ogre unless you have a high DPS ranged weapon like the Witch Hunters Pistols. Sitting back firing your Handgun at it is useless, get in there and melee it. I'm testing Saltzpyres pistols when I get home (now that I finally got a pair!) as I suspect they are garbage for the ogre, just like all the other ranged weapons I tested. To reiterate how bad ranged weapons are: Drythe posted:I got curious and played around with the cheat engine for rat ogres. On hard, it took over 150 shots from a blue WH repeater to kill it. My blue handgun on the dwarf took around 50. All of these are in addition to the bots hitting it, just very slowly and poorly.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:59
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Gestalt Intellect posted:Something about the elf just doesn't feel right to me, I've only played a few games with her and I still only have a white longbow and green sword/dagger with a basically nonexistent effect but I can never hit anything with the longbow and when I do it doesn't do nearly as much damage as the dwarf's or witch hunter's crossbow. Then her melee weapons have never felt as effective as anyone else's of the same quality. Elf is a melee monster. If you are shooting when you could be stabbing you are elfing wrong. Use the bow to shoot specials, which is what makes a trueshot useful (though it can be annoying if there is a rat between you and the special) and the rest of the time be a melee machine dancing through the rats with lots of dodges. Her m1 slashes do as much damage as some charge attacks on other classes weapons and have a lot of aoe to them. She good if played correctly.
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Nov 9, 2015 16:01
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Drythe posted:I'm testing Saltzpyres pistols when I get home (now that I finally got a pair!) as I suspect they are garbage for the ogre, just like all the other ranged weapons I tested. Chugging a potion and dumping his whole ammo load into a rat ogre with right click volley is for sure more effective than meleeing
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Nov 9, 2015 16:03
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Drythe posted:I'm testing Saltzpyres pistols when I get home (now that I finally got a pair!) as I suspect they are garbage for the ogre, just like all the other ranged weapons I tested. 50% improved reload handgun never seems like a bad thing as its max damage.
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Nov 9, 2015 16:34
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You need more shots than you could possibly carry, and then you are empty for the specials afterwards. Go hit it with an axe.
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Nov 9, 2015 16:36
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The other thing to do is shoot from the hip while you're running back to the ogre from getting knocked back or having him jump away. I use a master crafted xbow on both wh and dwarf that's accurate enough to shoot on the run and can get quite a few shots off before you get to melee
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Nov 9, 2015 16:53
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The loot system sure is annoying. I've never had more than three successes, even when I've had two grimoires and three tomes! It'd be fine if that happened occasionally but I've done fifty or so sewer runs and then 10 various levels taking two grimoires. I know it's just luck but I don't know how I'm meant to go further in the game if my gear isn't getting better.
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Nov 9, 2015 17:36
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I'm sure you are exaggerating but playing on hard you can still get easy greens and blues then you just fuse together to make an orange!
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Nov 9, 2015 17:56
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Drythe posted:I'm testing Saltzpyres pistols when I get home (now that I finally got a pair!) as I suspect they are garbage for the ogre, just like all the other ranged weapons I tested. It's important to have the strength potion for this. Also, if you have skullcracker on them, they are pretty much made for the rat ogre.
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Nov 9, 2015 17:59
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Taear posted:The loot system sure is annoying. I've never had more than three successes, even when I've had two grimoires and three tomes! Either you have been cursed by a witch doctor to have poor luck that defies all reasonable probability, or you're a goony goon who is exaggerating so he can whine. Hmm....
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Nov 9, 2015 18:09
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Also if you want good gear then don't run sewers (I assume you mean the Smuggler's mission) you dumb dumb. Regular die only have a 1/3 chance of a success. If you want good gear then you do full missions with tomes and grims. If you just run a quick easy mission 20 times you're just gonna end up with 20 pieces of poo poo and I wouldn't expect anything else.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:11
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This game is beginning to fill up with pubs running exploit lobbies for loot they'll never use because they only exploit.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:11
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Taear posted:The loot system sure is annoying. I've never had more than three successes, even when I've had two grimoires and three tomes! Stop spending the vast majority of your playtime doing sewer runs. Non grimoire + tome levels will give you jack poo poo.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:12
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Taear posted:The loot system sure is annoying. I've never had more than three successes, even when I've had two grimoires and three tomes! Or at least do them on Nightmare, so you have some chance of getting not crap. Also, even 50 sewer runs on easy should have netted you enough white items to fuse 2 blues.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:22
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