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Well, you can't build where there are settlers, which represents that particular aspect. I don't actually mind that particular attempt, although it does bring up troubling aspects all of its own.
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Nov 11, 2015 13:08
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Zveroboy posted:Apparently The Settlers of Catan is a game about "the American myth of White European settlers stumbling upon a fertile land that was theirs by right, encountering no meaningful resistance, and acting on behalf of God and Country to develop economies, settlements, and cities in this “New World.” How best to deal with these "troubling issues" and avoid future "awkward positions"? Make one player play as the First Nation of Catan who can move around the hexes, gathering resources and destroying the settlements and cities of the evil White European colonists! I thought that was the point of the robber? Catan is pretty generic, it could really be about any kind of settlers, even native ones from 10,000 BC.
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Nov 11, 2015 13:21
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I guess it's completely impossible for an island to be uninhabited.Rutibex posted:I thought that was the point of the robber? Catan is pretty generic, it could really be about any kind of settlers, even native ones from 10,000 BC. Well, settlers from 10,000 B.C. with roads, trading ports, libraries, and universities 
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Nov 11, 2015 13:31
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Foehammer posted:Well, settlers from 10,000 B.C. with roads, trading ports, libraries, and universities Martians.
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Nov 11, 2015 13:32
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EvilChameleon posted:I can't imagine a worse thing in life than having to play as a female character in a board game. There's a guy I game with (well, not really anymore) that always complained about having a female character. I usually just wanted to tell him to shut up because the gender doesn't matter in games we played (and contrary to his somewhat misogynist view they were generally the mechanically better characters but hes the kind of guy that would take it poorly, instead I just don't game with him any more.
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Nov 11, 2015 14:35
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Fat Samurai posted:Martians. It's not my fault no one else is obeying the prime directive.
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Nov 11, 2015 14:36
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Poison Mushroom posted:One of these days I want to play a game of Star Trek Catan just so I can pass every turn.
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Nov 11, 2015 14:39
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Zveroboy posted:Apparently The Settlers of Catan is a game about "the American myth of White European settlers stumbling upon a fertile land that was theirs by right, encountering no meaningful resistance, and acting on behalf of God and Country to develop economies, settlements, and cities in this “New World.” How best to deal with these "troubling issues" and avoid future "awkward positions"? Make one player play as the First Nation of Catan who can move around the hexes, gathering resources and destroying the settlements and cities of the evil White European colonists! Oldstench posted:Nothing makes me hate this hobby more than the loving spergy twats who participate in it.
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Nov 11, 2015 14:56
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This variant is terrible, but only because it does poorly what Archipelago excels at.
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Nov 11, 2015 15:14
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I actually wonder if ACD negotiated pricing for both of the behemoths.
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Nov 11, 2015 15:16
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Tekopo posted:You are that bad guy in star trek that's an admiral within starfleet that sticks too close to the rules while the main characters break the rules to save the day. Can't be an admiral. Every one of them was a villain conspiring to undermine the ideals of the Federation.
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Nov 11, 2015 15:40
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Poopy Palpy posted:Can't be an admiral. Every one of them was a villain conspiring to undermine the ideals of the Federation. That's why Janeway was promoted to admiral right away, where as Picard retired from being a captain to become a grape farmer. The federation system works!
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Nov 11, 2015 15:59
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Oddly enough, I actually prefer Star Trek Catan to the base game. The adition of the Crew Cards lets each player have some sort of unique ability, and some of them can get you past the all-too frequent "Anyone want to trade? No? gently caress, guess I'll roll and hope for a 9 then." that seems to happen in my gaming group.
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Nov 11, 2015 16:36
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jng2058 posted:Oddly enough, I actually prefer Star Trek Catan to the base game. The adition of the Crew Cards lets each player have some sort of unique ability, and some of them can get you past the all-too frequent "Anyone want to trade? No? gently caress, guess I'll roll and hope for a 9 then." that seems to happen in my gaming group. It is pro-tier strategy to never trade in Catan, of course once everyone figures this out the game is ruined forever.
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Nov 11, 2015 16:40
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Rutibex posted:It is pro-tier strategy to never trade in Catan, of course once everyone figures this out the game is ruined forever. Which is where our group is at, and why we never play Catan anymore. Except that my brother sometimes plays with his daughters because if you refuse to trade with the five year old and the eight year old, you're just being a dick. Which means that to get an enjoyable version of Catan on the table anymore means you have to play at a grade school level. 
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Nov 11, 2015 16:43
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jng2058 posted:Oddly enough, I actually prefer Star Trek Catan to the base game. The adition of the Crew Cards lets each player have some sort of unique ability, and some of them can get you past the all-too frequent "Anyone want to trade? No? gently caress, guess I'll roll and hope for a 9 then." that seems to happen in my gaming group. They made a version of those for regular catan. I prefer them because in the offchance i actually play catan they help smooth out the feast or famine dice.
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Nov 11, 2015 16:54
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Zveroboy posted:Apparently The Settlers of Catan is a game about "the American myth of White European settlers stumbling upon a fertile land that was theirs by right, encountering no meaningful resistance, and acting on behalf of God and Country to develop economies, settlements, and cities in this “New World.” How best to deal with these "troubling issues" and avoid future "awkward positions"? Make one player play as the First Nation of Catan who can move around the hexes, gathering resources and destroying the settlements and cities of the evil White European colonists! quote:It became clear, at least to me, a white person playing this game in the U.S. in the early 2010s, that every game of Settlers of Catan re-tells the American myth of White European settlers stumbling upon a fertile land that was theirs by right, encountering no meaningful resistance, and acting on behalf of God and Country to develop economies, settlements, and cities in this “New World.” My first thought was to never play Settlers of Catan again. But this response seemed inadequate: while it might solve the problem for me, it would not equip anyone else to wrestle with these troubling issues, and would put me in some awkward positions whenever Settlers of Catan came up as a possible game to play. So I decided to come up with a new game, based on Settlers of Catan, but one that would bring to light the things that had so troubled me about the game.  One of the kids in my neighborhood growing up went to a private church run middle school. They didn't allow games with dice, playing cards, or even depictions of them because "those are tools for gambling." That's what the article feels like to me.
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Nov 11, 2015 16:55
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Rutibex posted:It is pro-tier strategy to never trade in Catan, of course once everyone figures this out the game is ruined forever. I always hear this, but why/how is it true? Or is it just very exaggerated? In a 4P game if I make trades with all three opponents (and if those trades are more or less equitable, at least on average), surely I benefit three times as much as they do? Isn't that huge for me? Obviously you don't want to trade with someone who's clearly winning or who is about to block you on the board or steal the cards back with Monopoly, but other than that trading ought to be very strong and important?
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Nov 11, 2015 16:58
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quote:It is pro-tier strategy to never trade in Catan, of course once everyone figures this out the game is ruined forever. I keep hearing about groups where this kind of Grinchy nonsense metagame is stable, but I don't understand it. At the beginning of a game, what stops player A and B from saying "hey, let's trade a lot with each other"? Two players trading with each other will dumpster players C and D who never trade (so assumedly they'll be trading by mid-game, and normalcy will resume). Do your players just not like winning - or do they just hate politics so much that they wouldn't consider using it to get ahead? If so, Catan is a really weird choice of game to play. To be clear, the politics of trading (or inviting allies in Cosmic or whatever else) will eventually trample over the game and that's lame - that's to be expected. But "not trading" is in no way a dominant or even mediocre "strategy" for the game. It's like players are trying to self-medicate the game into something completely different; it'd be like a group hates conflict so they decide that "never attacking" is the best strategy in Kemet.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:05
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Sloober posted:There's a guy I game with (well, not really anymore) that always complained about having a female character. I usually just wanted to tell him to shut up because the gender doesn't matter in games we played (and contrary to his somewhat misogynist view they were generally the mechanically better characters but hes the kind of guy that would take it poorly, instead I just don't game with him any more. Will play games as Stalin but not as a woman
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Nov 11, 2015 17:08
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jmzero posted:it'd be like a group hates conflict so they decide that "never attacking" is the best strategy in Kemet. My friend insists that the best Kemet strategy is to sit tight and level up all his pyramids to four, get the power tiles that give VPs, then pick up the rest with a couple of fights in the end game. We've played 3 times, and he's never won using this strategy.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:10
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Zveroboy posted:My friend insists that the best Kemet strategy is to sit tight and level up all his pyramids to four, get the power tiles that give VPs, then pick up the rest with a couple of fights in the end game. We've played 3 times, and he's never won using this strategy. Is that even legal? I thought you weren't allowed to take multiple power tiles with the same power, even if they're different colors.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:14
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I'm getting flashbacks to the horror story of someone (Countblanc maybe?) sitting down with a random group to play Galaxy Trucker and when that person flipped the timer quickly after it ran out people started rolling their eyes and going "Oh so it's going to be THAT kind of game huh?"
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Nov 11, 2015 17:16
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Some people will always turtle in Kemet despite every mechanism of the game pushing against it. I don't know why they do it (an ingrained desire to not appear strong because of politics?), but they at least don't manage to ruin the game like people playing sub-optimally in other area control games. Also Taser Rates is right - you can't double dip on VP tiles, even if they're different colors. Tell that to your passive friend and see if that spurs him to the battlefield. edit: Also there's a lot of pearl-clutching in this thread about the very idea of someone taking issue with the colonialist tendencies of board games. Impermanent fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 17:16
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I feast on those people in Tigris & Euphrates.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:20
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taser rates posted:Is that even legal? I thought you weren't allowed to take multiple power tiles with the same power, even if they're different colors. I don't think it's legal. I think the most you can get from tiles is one from the VP tile and one from the Sphinx.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:25
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Impermanent posted:Some people will always turtle in Kemet despite every mechanism of the game pushing against it. I don't know why they do it (an ingrained desire to not appear strong because of politics?), but they at least don't manage to ruin the game like people playing sub-optimally in other area control games. Also Taser Rates is right - you can't double dip on VP tiles, even if they're different colors. Tell that to your passive friend and see if that spurs him to the battlefield. I don't even see how turtling is in any way a viable strategy. Even discounting the VPs for it, taking a temple is some good econ for the next round and should eliminate the need to ever use the Pray action (so you can focus on killing, naturally). And yeah, totally not legal, despite the differences in colors.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:27
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McNerd posted:I always hear this, but why/how is it true? Or is it just very exaggerated? I think it comes down to the fact that almost always the trades being offered will be of more benefit to the person offering the trade than anyone that wants to accept it. People don't offer trades unless they they need a specific resource to build what they want to. By offering to trade your opponent is telling you that they are close to scoring a point and/or more resources, so its generally better to block that then allow it to happen for some marginal benefit to yourself. The only logical time it makes sense to accept a trade is if you are also on the brink of building something, and it is better than what your opponent is trying to do. Inexperienced players will trade just for a vague idea that "I might need some stone later I guess  " but experienced players know never to accept a trade unless its really nice, because your opponent is going to build something right away and gain an immediate benefit from that trade.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:35
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My one niggling concern about Ta-Seti is it seems to be giving players more options which encourage a defensive posture. Ostensibly this is to provide a bit of a, according to the designers on BGG, welcome boost to those who want to employ a strategy that revolves more around claiming and holding temples, but I'm worried that people are going to look at that stuff as an excuse to try and turtle up, or worse, that it'll actually let them.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:36
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Kai Tave posted:My one niggling concern about Ta-Seti is it seems to be giving players more options which encourage a defensive posture. Ostensibly this is to provide a bit of a, according to the designers on BGG, welcome boost to those who want to employ a strategy that revolves more around claiming and holding temples, but I'm worried that people are going to look at that stuff as an excuse to try and turtle up, or worse, that it'll actually let them. Without any expansions, a produce/consume strategy in Race For the Galaxy is stronger than a military rush. This is intentional, because the military rush is easy to figure out, so rewarding the player who figures out the deeper strategy is good. Later expansions give military rush a boost so that the game has more viable paths to victory. I kinda see this as the same thing. The temples are out there just offering up cash and points, so you instinctively want to hold them, but in core Kemet you mostly just end up working to keep other people from holding them. Making them do what you think they ought to, if you work for it, is probably good for the game.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:51
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StashAugustine posted:Will play games as Stalin but not as a woman Dude also thinks Tanto Cuore has a great theme. Stalin is actually just a wealthy dude in a mansion that hires maids and doesn't let them leave.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:52
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Kai Tave posted:My one niggling concern about Ta-Seti is it seems to be giving players more options which encourage a defensive posture. Ostensibly this is to provide a bit of a, according to the designers on BGG, welcome boost to those who want to employ a strategy that revolves more around claiming and holding temples, but I'm worried that people are going to look at that stuff as an excuse to try and turtle up, or worse, that it'll actually let them. If by "more options" you mean "they can get an extra permanent VP from Ta-Seti". The expansion buffs the defensive option enough to make it viable, but not so much that everyone can do it. If you don't buy Defensive Victory you won't win by turtling.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:59
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Rutibex posted:I think it comes down to the fact that almost always the trades being offered will be of more benefit to the person offering the trade than anyone that wants to accept it. People don't offer trades unless they they need a specific resource to build what they want to. By offering to trade your opponent is telling you that they are close to scoring a point and/or more resources, so its generally better to block that then allow it to happen for some marginal benefit to yourself. Right so you're not saying that you shouldn't trade, just be more finicky about it than most beginners are. I can get behind that.
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Nov 11, 2015 18:04
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Dump newbies into the deep end and make them play Archipelago.
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Nov 11, 2015 18:19
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Ta-Seti just needs to hurry up and release goddamn it. I need that black power.
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Nov 11, 2015 18:19
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Impermanent posted:Some people will always turtle in Kemet despite every mechanism of the game pushing against it. I don't know why they do it (an ingrained desire to not appear strong because of politics?), but they at least don't manage to ruin the game like people playing sub-optimally in other area control games. Also Taser Rates is right - you can't double dip on VP tiles, even if they're different colors. Tell that to your passive friend and see if that spurs him to the battlefield. It's likely because those players don't really enjoy playing aggressive area-control games, but either don't realize that they don't (because of lack of experience with the genre or simply a lack of self-analysis), or they don't want to be the person who has to veto or sit out of the game everyone else wants to play. Kemet is undoubtedly a good game, but it's not a game for everyone. Impermanent posted:edit: Also there's a lot of pearl-clutching in this thread about the very idea of someone taking issue with the colonialist tendencies of board games. It's less pearl-clutching and more eye-rolling, because people who make a big fuss about it tend to assume that people who don't are ignorant of issue or ignorant of history, when most of us have long since figured it out and have simply reconciled the issue one way or the other.
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Nov 11, 2015 18:21
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McNerd posted:Right so you're not saying that you shouldn't trade, just be more finicky about it than most beginners are. I can get behind that. BUT it doesn't long for the skill level to get to where you can assume every trade will be as good for him as it is for you. All you do is help the other guy. But those foreign ports...they dont get points, and you don't have to do the mental gymnastics of value assessments. Just hand over sone poo poo and get what you want in return.
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Nov 11, 2015 18:21
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quote:The only logical time it makes sense to accept a trade is if you are also on the brink of building something, and it is better than what your opponent is trying to do Well... I guess we've got this down to the core misunderstanding at least. Even if a trade helps your opponent/trading-partner more than it does you, it is still often a good idea to trade. Imagine you're playing with 3 other people. You do a trade with each of them that's "better for them than it is for you" (we''ll say it's worth 3 benefit for them and 2 benefit for you; and to be clear, the main thrust of Catan's design is to make these kinds of mutually beneficial trades possible). They're all happy with the trades, because they got the better deals on the key stuff they needed right now, and they avoided all the silly bad trades that would have helped the other guy more. ...and you have 6 points and each of them has 3. That's the whole basis of a trading (or, more generally, "targeted positive interaction") game. If everyone waits for trades that are "better for them than their trading partner", there won't be much (if any) trading. But this strategy loses to either alliances or just (as above) a promiscuous trader who's content to get lots of small benefits from multiple other players.
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Nov 11, 2015 18:22
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Sloober posted:Dude also thinks Tanto Cuore has a great theme. Stalin is actually just a wealthy dude in a mansion that hires maids and doesn't let them leave. Technically that's Beria
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Nov 11, 2015 18:34
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Just curious, what part of Ta-Seti encourages turtling? Black red looks balls to the wall powerful, but I don't remember all of the new tiles or the priest track bonuses.
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Nov 11, 2015 18:34
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