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After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Diabolik900 posted:

Every week right after a new episode airs there is a rush of posts from people giving their high level "I liked/disliked it" assessments. Then for the next week the discussion tends to get dominated by the people who didn't like it (even if they were the minority). Then two or three times a season someone will come in and complain that nobody else likes it, and someone will have to explain all of this. This has happened every year since I began watching the show 1963.

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The_Doctor
Mar 29, 2007

"The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

echoplex posted:

Can whoever I get actually like S9 please? Sure I've got a neat thing to give but at this rate it's a niche audience.

<makes echoplex my Santa> I've loved Season 9!

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!
Hey, if someone wants to get me a gift from Season 9, I'm all for it! The only story I have from that broadcast is The Sea Devils.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

echoplex posted:

Can whoever I get actually like S9 please? Sure I've got a neat thing to give but at this rate it's a niche audience.

I wrote down my current ratings for the series and compared the average to all the classic serieseses (NB: from roughly 2/3 of each series watched, so not too dissimilar to the current % ;v: ). It's slap bang in the middle, so it's not doing that badly even from someone who vocally disliked episodes 1,2, 7 and 8.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

After The War posted:

McGann Season 2 is absolutely what made me a Big Finish fan, and I usually suggest people go straight from Storm Warning to Invaders From Mars. Somebody I'm just starting out asked me if there were really stories in between, since the two fit so well.

Chimes of Midnight made me a believer, Neverland made me a convert. If you're a McGann fan, you owe that one to yourself. But it's the culmination to an arc that starts off with things just a little off (that time trickery you like) and gradually escalating to full-blown catastrophe by end. Maybe Embrace the Darkness is a little out of place, but its a fine story that does what it wants to and succeeds better than anything from McGann Season 1. Time of the Daleks has way too much going on, but builds up season's main threat and has some cool ideas as well as giving is Manipulative Daleks for the first time since Troughton.

But Neverland, man... it was exactly what I wanted Big Finish (and Expanded Universes in general) to be: treating everything in "the Canon" (for lack of a better term) as a giant toybox to be played with as they saw fit, without fear of losing newcomers afraid of backstory (the first few RTD years) or falling into fanwank obsession (lots of the novels... and Zagreus, unforutnately). At the same time, there's a willingness to take all this in a new direction and make the stories very much their own. And, despite the infamously messy follow-up, it also gave us the Gallifrey spin-off to do those things even more. :swoon:

Funny thing is, after Minuet, I was exactly where you are: "This stuff is okay, but ultimately it's your standard :nallears: tie-in." Now I'm lost in the madness of my "listen to everything" undertaking, and those calm, simple days are but a half-remembered dream.

So maybe you shouldn't do Season 2.

How did you not mention the greatness that is Seasons of Fear in this here long old post?

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!
poo poo I've done signed up for the old secret santa, how much would people like an old copy of The Discontinuity Guide I wonder

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!
Feel free to buy me VNA :getin:

As long as they're not by Gareth Roberts (who, oddly enough, wrote the only ones I can still find) :mad:

Forktoss
Feb 13, 2012

I'm OK, you're so-so
The_Doctor please make JaKiri my Santee so I can finally get rid of this lovely torn copy of Shakedown* I bought by accident

*(containing unique photographs taken during the shooting of the straight-to-video tie-in movie)

After The War
Apr 12, 2005

to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

Barry Foster posted:

How did you not mention the greatness that is Seasons of Fear in this here long old post?

I was going to, but since it's awesome for reasons other than the season arc (last 30 seconds notwithstanding) and I had to rush to work, I had to scrap my whole bit about Ham and the Best Villain Reveal Ever.

Nonetheless, I hang my head in shame.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible



Here's what you need to keep in mind about the first season of McGann audio: it was basically "Holy poo poo, Paul actually said yes? And he needs scripts when?"

Out of the four, only Storm Warning was a entirely new script. Sword of Orion and Minuet in Hell were rewrites (heavily, in both cases, but still rewrites) of old Audio Visuals CDs, and The Stones of Venice was originally written for Tom (as one of three. The others were The Spectre of Lanyon Moor and The Holy Terror). They had a very short turnaround to come up with scripts to show him, which is indicative of their quality. They had more time for season 2, which ended up giving us Chimes, Seasons, and Neverland.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Short Synopsis: A Spearhead from Space unleashes Terror like a Rose blooming or the opening of Pandora's Box.

Long Synopsis: UNIT stumbles upon a global alien invasion that is already nearing completion. Spanning the world, they struggle to get ahead of the 8-Ball and turn the tables on a foe that is technologically superior, protected by the same World Governments that UNIT is supposed to represent, and being fully embraced by the world at large. Victory comes at a cost, with some troubling undertones.

What's Good:
  • The story structure. The story takes place across four episodes, and each one is a distinct story with a beginning, middle and end that flows into the next part smoothly. Each part has its own name, which tell the story of the actual invasion taking place - Vanguard is about the first inkling UNIT has of the threat they are facing, and their first encounters with the alien race. Earthfall is as the invasion proper begins, UNIT scrambling to meet the enemy head-on. Bridgehead marks the point where the two forces vie for position/supremacy on the world stage. Armageddon speaks for itself, the total destruction that is the fate of one of the two sides - either the human race or the alien race must win or be destroyed. Juggling the need to tell a full story both across the entire audio AND within each individual part is something that Big Finish doesn't always get right (or the tv series!) but here I think they do a very solid job.

  • UNIT as an international force. In the classic series, UNIT as we saw it was obviously based in England with a primarily English staff. But reference was frequently made to their International nature, to the idea that the Brigadier answered to "Geneva", a United Nations-led force that crossed borders, that operated not as any particular country's military force but as something greater, something that belonged to the world. In the revival, some attempts were made to follow up on this, with UNIT being represented by English, Americans, Asians etc. But the last couple of seasons under Kate Stewart's guidance has come across as VERY English. So it is welcome in this audio (thanks to not actually have to do location filming!) to see the International flavor played up once more. "Geneva" is once again the ultimate authority over UNIT, there are divisions all over the world from Mongolia to Puerto Rico. Kate is the Boss/Director but she answers to Geneva, she delegates responsibilities around the world rather than flying around running everything personally herself. There is very much a sense that UNIT is a global force with a global reach.

  • The UNIT Family. Part of the appeal of the Pertwee years was that the UNIT team that the Doctor hung out with came to be seen as a kind of extended family. The Brig, Jo (and later Sarah Jane), Captain Yates and Sergeant Benson provided a grounding support base for the Doctor and an air of familiarity for the viewer. Going into the revival era, the two familiar characters for UNIT were Kate Stewart and Osgood, which aren't enough to build an entire world around. So it was necessary to establish new characters, and for the most part the writers did a very good job of providing good variety and an intimate sense that this UNIT team is just that - a team. There's the "new kid" in Captain Carter, the "cool guy" in Lieutenant Bishop, the "military man" in Colonel Shindi (with an amazing voice from Ramon Tikaram), three male figures who serve as good counterpoints to Kate and Osgood. Carter is earnest, excitable, and has a very good, quasi-flirty relationship with Osgood which is probably most welcome in that it seems mostly one-sided, with Osgood seemingly unaware of his flirtations or unfazed entirely by them. Bishop is probably the most generic of the new characters, but the one who really stands out is Colonel Shindi. Almost from the very start of the story it is made clear that he is more military-minded BUT he also practices what he preaches and firmly respects the chain of command. He wants to deal with issues by blowing them up/sending soldiers after them.... but when Kate Stewart gives him orders to the contrary he follows them. He respects her, he acknowledges her authority, he believes in her judgement and is willing to follow it even when it goes against his own instincts. He is willing to sacrifice not just his men but himself in the greater cause of serving UNIT, because he is a true believer. More than that though, he obvious knows and cares about his own men (and women) under his command. His chiding of Carter is never the blustering of an out-of-touch, mindless soldier but the concerned/agitated warnings of somebody with experience and a willingness to look at the bigger picture. His treatment towards Osgood is both fatherly/protective as well as respectful of her intelligence and her resourcefulness. Shindi is the glue that can hold a team like this together, the Executive Officer who helps a leader like Kate feel secure enough in her position to make the calls she needs to make. I hope he remains a regular, he was a delightful surprise.

What's Not:

  • Daddy issues. When Kate Stewart first showed up in The Power of Three and was revealed to be the Brigadier's daughter, it was a lovely nod to the classic series and very welcome. Ever since then though, it's become almost a running joke just how often she or somebody else brings up her father, as if the writers are terrified people won't know her pedigree or won't care about her if she doesn't have a constant flashing THE BRIG'S DAUGHTER sign above her head. This continues on in this audio, as characters frequently bring up her father, talk about what her dad would have done, if she's living up to his memory etc. At one point, some random journalist meets Kate (whose role as Head of UNIT is classified, by the way) and starts talking about her father :doh: - the character is established enough now that she should be able to stand on her own. The sad thing is, whenever they're not jamming it down our ears that she's the Brig's daughter, Kate does just that - she stands easily on her own as the competent, respected and confident head of UNIT.

  • Character redundancy. Perhaps because they're still finding their feet, there are unfortunately a few characters that feel redundant for at least the first parts of the story. Bishop isn't introduced till the second episode and at first he feels like a rehash of Captain Carter - the rogueish character, adaptable and not afraid to question orders. Bishop largely disappears from the story after the 2nd and 3rd episodes as Carter moves back to the forefront, furthering that sense that they're effectively the same character, just one having a few more years experience. Happily by the end there has been some developments to make Carter stand out as a distinct character, but for the bulk of the story they could be interchangeable. On the villain side, there are three distinct "bad guys", the most interesting of whom is killed off in the second part in a very well-handled way after revealing they aren't entirely aware of the full extent of what is happening. But that leaves the two main villains, both of whom are basically interchangeable, and as one grows in ascendancy it leaves the other basically spinning their wheels. It's just a shame that as the story goes on and the stakes are raised, the interesting villains fall by the wayside leaving the least interesting as the main threat.

  • Putting the genie back in the bottle. Suffering the same issues that the RTD-era of the revival did - it presents a contemporary version of our own "real" world and then wildly changes everything about it.... then tries to go back to being a mostly 1:1 contemporary version of the real world again. Through the first three episodes, UNIT does a good job of keeping what is happening mostly behind the curtain, but that all gets ripped away in episode 4 when the alien invasion becomes front and center with massive real world consequences... and then by the end, everything is back to normal and nobody is any the wiser. To be fair, the solution UNIT comes up with is telegraphed right from episode 1 rather than coming out of nowhere, but it makes the whole thing feel pointless, like there was never really anything at stake.

  • The morality. In the first episode, UNIT encounters a journalist who gets a little too close to a bigger story than she'd ever have expected, and they take steps to ensure it doesn't get out. But she keeps turning up like a bad penny, learning more about UNIT and not liking what she sees. By the end of the story, she is painted as a potential recurring character, one who is seeking to expose UNIT and their actions to the world. The major problem with this is that everything about the character is written to make her unsympathetic, including a pivotal scene where she proves herself a selfish coward at a moment of truth. So her desire to expose UNIT comes across as self-serving, misguided and something to be avoided at all costs.... except she's right. UNIT's actions are - no matter how seemingly justified - immoral and disturbingly quasi-fascistic. They are playing God, acting seemingly without oversight, making their own judgement calls on what is right for humanity and what is not. These actions do not take place in a vacuum, and at times Kate gives very good reasoning for why she is doing what she is doing, but at other times her attitude belies a sense of entitlement, that it is simply a given that she gets to decide what is best for the world and what is not. There is an unfortunate air of how Torchwood was made to look arrogant and presumptuous (mostly through inept writing) and I hope they find a better way of portraying UNIT in future stories.

Final Thoughts:

UNIT: Extinction is an accomplished, well executed first effort that demonstrates Big Finish is more than capable of playing around in the revival era of the Doctor Who universe. Well paced with each episode feeling like a distinct part of the greater whole, it wraps up the major elements of the plot in a neat little bow that also leaves wriggle room for ongoing arcs passing through future stories. Still leaning a little too heavily on,"SHE'S THE BRIGADIER'S DAUGHTER!" and suffering slightly in its efforts to introduce new characters to go along with the established Kate and Osgood, it is by no means perfect. But it is a solid effort with room to grow, and increased familiarity with the new characters will hopefully allow them to settle in. There are some troubling quasi-fascistic undertones which in turn are undercut by the nature of the one person who seems to see them, and there is a danger this could go down the Torchwood route of unwittingly making a show about terrible human beings doing horrible things despite supposedly being the good guys. In the end though, I bought this story purely out of curiosity for how Big Finish would handle the revival-era universe, and I enjoyed the story enough that I won't hesitate to buy the next UNIT story when it comes out. So in that sense at least, it's a triumph.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

CobiWann posted:

Hey, if someone wants to get me a gift from Season 9, I'm all for it! The only story I have from that broadcast is The Sea Devils.

I'd say it's one of the weakest Pertwee years; Day of the Daleks is pretty good, The Sea Devils and The Mutants are ok, but I'm not a massive fan of The Time Monster or (god forbid) The Curse of Peladon.

CobiWann
Oct 21, 2009

Have fun!

Jerusalem posted:



UNIT: Extinction is an accomplished, well executed first effort that demonstrates Big Finish is more than capable of playing around in the revival era of the Doctor Who universe. Well paced with each episode feeling like a distinct part of the greater whole, it wraps up the major elements of the plot in a neat little bow that also leaves wriggle room for ongoing arcs passing through future stories. Still leaning a little too heavily on,"SHE'S THE BRIGADIER'S DAUGHTER!" and suffering slightly in its efforts to introduce new characters to go along with the established Kate and Osgood, it is by no means perfect. But it is a solid effort with room to grow, and increased familiarity with the new characters will hopefully allow them to settle in. There are some troubling quasi-fascistic undertones which in turn are undercut by the nature of the one person who seems to see them, and there is a danger this could go down the Torchwood route of unwittingly making a show about terrible human beings doing horrible things despite supposedly being the good guys. In the end though, I bought this story purely out of curiosity for how Big Finish would handle the revival-era universe, and I enjoyed the story enough that I won't hesitate to buy the next UNIT story when it comes out. So in that sense at least, it's a triumph.

This makes me happy to hear. I'm guessing it's set before the events of Dark Water?

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Diabolik900 posted:

You obviously haven't been around these threads very long if you think this season is disliked.

Edit for a little more content: Every week right after a new episode airs there is a rush of posts from people giving their high level "I liked/disliked it" assessments. Then for the next week the discussion tends to get dominated by the people who didn't like it (even if they were the minority). Then two or three times a season someone will come in and complain that nobody else likes it, and someone will have to explain all of this. This has happened every year since I began watching the show.

"Why is this show focusing on the old guy, Ian's the real star here"

-The Very First Doctor Who Fan, Probably

FreezingInferno
Jul 15, 2010

THERE.
WILL.
BE.
NO.
BATTLE.
HERE!

MrL_JaKiri posted:

I'd say it's one of the weakest Pertwee years; Day of the Daleks is pretty good, The Sea Devils and The Mutants are ok, but I'm not a massive fan of The Time Monster or (god forbid) The Curse of Peladon.

I like The Time Monster when it's about time experiments, the Master, and squawking time-eating bird people. The Atlantis stuff is just dull though; I mean, there weren't even any fish people!

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

CobiWann posted:

This makes me happy to hear. I'm guessing it's set before the events of Dark Water?

I assume so, though nothing within the story itself explicitly rules out that it takes place after. I'm not entirely sure if it is even post-Day of the Doctor, outside of a line about upgrading the ravens at the Tower of London.

Oh and though they don't make a big deal out of it, they retain the fun fussy/motherly attitude that Kate takes towards Osgood, which I always like :)

Kilo147
Apr 14, 2007

You remind me of the boss
What boss?
The boss with the power
What power?
The power of voodoo
Who-doo?
You do.
Do what?
Remind me of the Boss.

Not scarf Osgood is the Zygon. Her costume cleans up over the course of the episode, unless. She has a self cleaning getup, she's the zygon.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

I hope none of the writers (including Moffat) know whether Osgood is the Zygon or human version, forcing them to write her as just "Osgood" rather than trying to be clever or drop little hints/clues.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

Jerusalem posted:

I hope none of the writers (including Moffat) know whether Osgood is the Zygon or human version, forcing them to write her as just "Osgood" rather than trying to be clever or drop little hints/clues.

The whole point is that is doesn't matter, shouldn't matter, and nobody should ask.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

jivjov posted:

The whole point is that is doesn't matter, shouldn't matter, and nobody should ask.

Yeah, which is why I'm saying she shouldn't be written by anybody from any perspective other than,"She's Osgood, doesn't matter if she's human or Zygon, she's Osgood."

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to
Because Doctor Who tends to have people on who are popular in the UK but unknown over here in the colonies, I looked up Ingrid Oliver and found out she's part of a 2 woman comedy show that's terrible. At least that's what people online say.

Stobbit
Mar 9, 2006
Okay - sounds like I should keep pushing through for now. I'm just still waiting for an audio that I actually enjoy, but hanging on to the hope that I'll get there eventually.

Also, I have to say that I absolutely love the artwork on the latest Big Finish releases. Every time I go to the website I'm tempted to buy some of their newer DW stories based on the artwork alone.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


Stobbit posted:

Okay - sounds like I should keep pushing through for now. I'm just still waiting for an audio that I actually enjoy, but hanging on to the hope that I'll get there eventually.

Also, I have to say that I absolutely love the artwork on the latest Big Finish releases. Every time I go to the website I'm tempted to buy some of their newer DW stories based on the artwork alone.

Listen to the Chimes of Midnight. If you don't like the Chimes of Midnight, the format just isn't for you.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

twistedmentat posted:

Because Doctor Who tends to have people on who are popular in the UK but unknown over here in the colonies, I looked up Ingrid Oliver and found out she's part of a 2 woman comedy show that's terrible. At least that's what people online say.

They're not terrible really, just average. She was good in The Brothers Faversham though.

vegetables
Mar 10, 2012

Jago and Litefoot and Strax is out! I'm stupidly excited for this; it's going to be the first full-price thing I've bought related to Doctor Who for absolutely ages. Something about the concept makes me grin uncontrollably, and I am not entirely sure why.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Let us know what it's like, I considered picking it up but I really figured it would be best to be more familiar with the pre-existing Jago and Litefoot stuff first. It sounds like a blast though.

Tim Burns Effect
Apr 1, 2011

Jerusalem posted:

Let us know what it's like, I considered picking it up but I really figured it would be best to be more familiar with the pre-existing Jago and Litefoot stuff first. It sounds like a blast though.

Having listened to J&L from "The Mahogany Murderers" up through series 5, it's pretty hard not to be charmed by the two lead actors right from the get-go.



While you would almost certainly enjoy it more having listened to previous material, I'm sure it would still be a lot of fun regardless.

edit: Also, I strongly recommend "Benjamin and Baxter", which is a two hour long interview with those guys, both separately and as a team. Christopher Benjamin (Jago) is pretty quiet and unassuming in real life but drat Trevor Baxter (Litefoot) is one hell of a storyteller.

Dr. Gene Dango MD
May 20, 2010

Fuck them other cats I'm running with my own wolfpack

Keep fronting like youse a thug and get ya dome pushed back

Roach Warehouse posted:

Audio Drama post
Colditz is great, I think it's number 25 so it should be included in that sale.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen
𝅘𝅥𝅮
This year's Christmas special will be shown in US cinemas on the 28th and 29th of December. I still don't get why they do it this way - I'd be more inclined to go if I hadn't seen the episode days earlier, and in the comforts of my home with a pause and rewind button.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

CaptainYesterday posted:

This year's Christmas special will be shown in US cinemas on the 28th and 29th of December. I still don't get why they do it this way - I'd be more inclined to go if I hadn't seen the episode days earlier, and in the comforts of my home with a pause and rewind button.

Because there are multi million dollar films that traditionally make millions of dollars on Christmas day viewings.

Cliff Racer
Mar 24, 2007

by Lowtax
Sending out loads of prints seems like a good way to get it leaked early. I can understand why they wouldn't want to.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum

Cliff Racer posted:

Sending out loads of prints seems like a good way to get it leaked early. I can understand why they wouldn't want to.

If its anything like when Day of the Doctor was in theaters, no prints are going to be sent out. They do those one-time-only special showings via streaming. I went to a Star Trek TNG screening that crashed halfway through due to internet loss.

Edward Mass
Sep 14, 2011

𝅘𝅥𝅮 I wanna go home with the armadillo
Good country music from Amarillo and Abilene
Friendliest people and the prettiest women you've ever seen
𝅘𝅥𝅮

Rhyno posted:

Because there are multi million dollar films that traditionally make millions of dollars on Christmas day viewings.

I'm suggesting they show the episode Christmas Eve. If you told me I could see an episode of Doctor Who a day earlier for $12, I'd do it on when they did it.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

jivjov posted:

If its anything like when Day of the Doctor was in theaters, no prints are going to be sent out. They do those one-time-only special showings via streaming. I went to a Star Trek TNG screening that crashed halfway through due to internet loss.

Day of the Doctor would be pretty cool to see in theaters.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

twistedmentat posted:

Day of the Doctor would be pretty cool to see in theaters.

It was kind of terrible. If I hadn't already seen it I'd have been annoyed at not being able to hear vital dialogue.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Rhyno posted:

It was kind of terrible. If I hadn't already seen it I'd have been annoyed at not being able to hear vital dialogue.

It was fine at my screening, and well worth going. The Timelord pictures really did look amazing in 3D :allears:.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

Neddy Seagoon posted:

It was fine at my screening, and well worth going. The Timelord pictures really did look amazing in 3D :allears:.

The good thing was I won the trivia contest before the screening. They foolishly sourced most of the questions from the original series and I crushed my opponents.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

It looked amazing at the screening I went to as well, and I didn't have any issues with hearing dialogue.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

This is Urotsuki.

Jerusalem posted:

It looked amazing at the screening I went to as well, and I didn't have any issues with hearing dialogue.

Thirded. I didn't actually notice much of the 3-D outside of the Stasis Slices or whatever they were called so it clearly wasn't distracting. Line was backed out the door, I've never seen so many nerds in one place.

A young girl in a TARDIS dress told me she loved my Bad Wolf shirt, I told her to chase people around shouting VWORP VWORP :allears:

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Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

ふっっっっっっっっっっっっck
I irrationally despise the VWORP VWORP. It's the least accurate onomatopoeia since SNAP-HISS for lightsaber.

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