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moist turtleneck posted:I wish I was one of those wizards that could tell the difference between 100 and 200 frames per second most people can tell the difference between 30 and 60.. 60 looks like you're playing a game, 30 looks like you're watching a video of somebody playing a game
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Nov 11, 2015 23:44
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im full of poo poo posted:yes, it is capped at 30fps by default on PC, which looks like poo poo Huh. So there is a feature that is enabled by default that, when disabled, causes the game to gently caress up. Huh. Sure seems to me like it was enabled for a reason, gomer.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:45
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you're right, tying engine speed to framerate is a good idea
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Nov 11, 2015 23:48
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Somfin posted:Huh. So there is a feature that is enabled by default that, when disabled, causes the game to gently caress up. That's why I leave the parking brake on as I drive out of the dealership.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:51
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im full of poo poo posted:you're right, tying engine speed to framerate is a good idea No, I think that you're way more right here. They inherited an engine where the engine speed was tied to framerate. They put in a manual framerate cap to prevent the fact that engine speed was tied to framerate from loving the game up. You removed that cap. The game hosed up. You are now complaining that removing that cap hosed the game up. You obviously did nothing to bring this on yourself. You can put the cap back on, you know. I'd rather have a game that 'looks like poo poo' while running at a smooth 30fps than one that is actually hosed and broken and unplayable (but look at that FPS number when I'm staring at a barren shelf!), but maybe my video gaming priorities are just in the wrong place.
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Nov 12, 2015 00:01
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If you play the game to look at a barren shelf that might explain why you have different priorities than those of us who like to play the game and shoot things.
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Nov 12, 2015 00:05
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im full of poo poo posted:yes, it is capped at 30fps by default on PC, which looks like poo poo I've done nothing to unlock the framerate and the game goes up to 60 for me, according to Steam's FPS counter.
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Nov 12, 2015 00:22
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yeah some people get a 60fps cap and some people get a 30fps cap, i would cap it at 60 if i could but its only capped/uncapped in the ini
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Nov 12, 2015 00:25
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Somfin posted:No, I think that you're way more right here. They inherited an engine where the engine speed was tied to framerate. They put in a manual framerate cap to prevent the fact that engine speed was tied to framerate from loving the game up. You removed that cap. The game hosed up. You are now complaining that removing that cap hosed the game up. You obviously did nothing to bring this on yourself. Almost like most other games don't have this issue.
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Nov 12, 2015 00:25
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http://webmshare.com/4WDy4 An incorporeal elevator causes Dogmeat to fall into the mystery hole.
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Nov 12, 2015 00:49
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Somfin posted:They inherited an engine where the engine speed was tied to framerate. you'd think they would've switched to a different engine after skyrim
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Nov 12, 2015 01:04
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.....huh I thought untying game logic to frame rate was GameMaking 102
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Nov 12, 2015 01:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5PlKZRQVgQ
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Nov 12, 2015 01:21
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moist turtleneck posted:I wish I was one of those wizards that could tell the difference between 100 and 200 frames per second i'm pretty sure humans are incapable of seeing any noticeable difference above ~90fps, anyone who tells you otherwise is lying
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Nov 12, 2015 01:32
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Somfin posted:No, I think that you're way more right here. They inherited an engine where the engine speed was tied to framerate. They put in a manual framerate cap to prevent the fact that engine speed was tied to framerate from loving the game up. You removed that cap. The game hosed up. You are now complaining that removing that cap hosed the game up. You obviously did nothing to bring this on yourself. "Inherited"? Holy wow you're dumb.
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Nov 12, 2015 01:54
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Rigged Death Trap posted:.....huh I thought untying game logic to frame rate was GameMaking 102 Ironically, GameMaker makes it impossible to do anything but 30 FPS.
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Nov 12, 2015 02:03
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Highest fps I've pulled so far is 900+ in the main menu. Also I get 300+ fps in the lock picking game which makes it a bit harder because your lock pick pretty much breaks instantly when you try to use it in the wrong place.
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Nov 12, 2015 02:14
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Farecoal posted:you'd think they would've switched to a different engine after skyrim I thought they made a big song and dance about acquiring the Rage engine a while back? Guess that didn't affect much. Rigged Death Trap posted:.....huh I thought untying game logic to frame rate was GameMaking 102 It depends on where the object-level update call is in relation to the frames, and how much work is being done there. If the framerate and object call are sequential, then you get what happens in these videos- the update goes out, objects adjust their position according to physics (and apparently their animation frame, which is why that speeds up), and then their models get moved to whatever position they happen to be in to be drawn. As the frame rate increases, the objects update faster and faster. In a more competently-designed engine, the frame renderer calls one thing on objects and the game physics calls a different thing- the frame call will include information about how long it has been since the last one and the object will interpolate its position and animation between where it is and where it thinks it is going to be, based on how long it has been since the last call. The game physics will call updates on a set timer, allowing for it to accurately predict where objects will be and reduce how many hitbox checks it has to make in the meantime. As you can guess, this poo poo is pretty core to the engine and changing it later is a goddamn nightmare- you'd be better off scrapping the whole thing and starting over. Fallout 4's engine is the same as Skyrim's, which is based heavily on the creakingly-ancient Gamebryo engine. I wouldn't be surprised if the team had a decade or more of technical debt to work around. Bad code has a way of generating more bad code that relies on that first batch of bad code to remain functional. Which is how you end up with poo poo like Ubisoft claiming that they can't afford to put female playable characters in Screed Unity.
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Nov 12, 2015 02:19
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Christopher... CHRIStopher... ChrisTOPHER.... CHRISTOPHER!
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Nov 12, 2015 02:21
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Somfin posted:I thought they made a big song and dance about acquiring the Rage engine a while back? Guess that didn't affect much.
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Nov 12, 2015 02:31
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FruitNYogurtParfait posted:Do other gamebryo games work in the way people are describing? If not this a conscious decision to gently caress everything up. Skyrim has these issues, I'd bet Oblivion would have some too but I haven't tried it on my 120hz TV.
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Nov 12, 2015 02:32
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pls stop using loving gamebryo bethesda
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Nov 12, 2015 02:38
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Farecoal posted:Zenimax, Bethesda's parent company, acquired id Software (who made the Rage engine) a while back, but I guess Bethesda doesn't want to to use it because of hope you're ready to wait a decade for the next game and have it be like twice as broken when it comes out
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Nov 12, 2015 02:39
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Captain Novolin posted:hope you're ready to wait a decade for the next game and have it be like twice as broken when it comes out It's okay, they're turning elder scrolls into a card game.
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Nov 12, 2015 02:41
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FruitNYogurtParfait posted:Do other gamebryo games work in the way people are describing? If not this a conscious decision to gently caress everything up. I guaran-loving-tee that that if it wasn't broken in Oblivion, the culprit is their Fallout 3 kill-cam slow-mo stuff, because that changed how their per-frame interpolation system works. I'll bet there's a loving minefield of public static variables and //TODO hardcoded PLEASE FIX comments all over the place in there.
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Nov 12, 2015 02:57
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I remember this. From the 80's.Tunicate posted:Ironically, GameMaker makes it impossible to do anything but 30 FPS.
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Nov 12, 2015 03:48
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Farecoal posted:pls stop using loving gamebryo bethesda Gamebryo is why I play Bethsoft games.
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Nov 12, 2015 04:23
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Cheez posted:
I might be misremebering it, but I think Slowbeef mentioned it when doing his undertale LP, and how while you could hack the engine to increase the FPS to 60 from 30, it'd double everything else's speed as well.
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Nov 12, 2015 04:41
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What on earth happened to this thread, and why is everyone lying?  - Dark Souls 2 has a cap of 60 fps compared to Dark Souls' 30 fps, this was one of the selling points. - Fallout 4 has a cap of 60 fps on PC, 30 fps on consoles. - Game Maker can limit framerate to whatever you choose, but the default for a new "room" you create is 30 fps unless you change it. - Bethesda is no longer using Gamebryo and the hilarious bugs and jankiness comes from their inability to program, not from the underlying engine. - There are pros and cons to tying game logic to frame rate, it's not as simple as "uncapped fps = always better".
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Nov 12, 2015 04:43
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Your Computer posted:- Bethesda is no longer using Gamebryo and the hilarious bugs and jankiness comes from their inability to program, not from the underlying engine. No, but they use the "Creation" engine, which is just a slightly improved version of Gamebryo
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Nov 12, 2015 04:57
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Your Computer posted:- Bethesda is no longer using Gamebryo and the hilarious bugs and jankiness comes from their inability to program, not from the underlying engine. Actually, to my knowledge their current engine (or at least the one Skyrim used) is based on Gamebryo in much the same way that the Source engine is based on Quake. Gamebryo's always been one of those really open engines, though. I know games like Epic Mickey and Civ IV used it too, so it's still not really Gamebryo's fault. Bethesda Game Studios just doesn't sweat making their engine 'work' by conventional standards.
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Nov 12, 2015 05:06
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The Dark Souls 2 namedrop was because of a decently notorious bug that would cause weapons to lose double their durability than they were supposed to because the durability check happened per-frame despite the engine now running at 60fps.
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Nov 12, 2015 05:07
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The Demoman in Team Fortress 2 has a selection of shield items that replace his stickybomb launcher. In exchange for the ability to deploy up to eight remotely-detonated mines that are fired at long range and can be set off in the air and can be detonated under the user's feet to jump huge distances, the demoman gains the ability to charge very fast in a straight line for a short time with a long cooldown, giving 135% melee damage halfway through the charge and 300% melee damage right at the end, thus transforming him from Demoman, destroyer of worlds into Demoknight, destroyer of most one person a minute. The first few shields introduced allowed you to turn veeeeerrryyyy slowly, like a few degrees over the length of the charge. They later added boots to swap the Demoman's grenade launcher for extra health and a little extra turning speed while charging, in case you're really dedicated to only killing one person a minute and feel like you'd rather not be tempted by actual guns. People soon found out that by binding keys to simulate moving an analogue stick, they could turn the demoman at normal speed, which was both devastating (to at most one person a minute) and hilarious when a furious scotsman flung himself around a corner at 90 degrees and bashed you in the face with a whiskey bottle. Sadly that was eventually patched out. After a year. Or two. What people didn't learn until much later was that demoknight turning rate was also dependent on your frame rate. At insane FPS like 250, your game might look like rear end from all the graphics settings you turned down but by god you could spin on a dime while killing one person a minute. That one got patched out a lot more quickly. Now there's a new shield which intentionally lets you turn really quickly, and gets around the one person a minute thing by refilling your charge when you kill someone with it. It's just not quite the same, somehow. And the boots are pretty useless now too.
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Nov 12, 2015 05:07
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Demoknight was always kind of awful because every time you saw a demo on your team and thought "Finally, someone's going to clear out this engineer nest" it'd just be a demoknight charging endlessly to its sentry death.
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Nov 12, 2015 05:12
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Cleretic posted:Actually, to my knowledge their current engine (or at least the one Skyrim used) is based on Gamebryo in much the same way that the Source engine is based on Quake. Yeah, I should've worded that differently I suppose.  It's still enough of a different engine to differentiate it though, and my main point was as you point out that Gamebryo has nothing to do with why Bethesda games are... well, Bethesda games. The wonky animations, quirky bugs, hilarious glitches and CTD's are all Bethesda.flatluigi posted:The Dark Souls 2 namedrop was because of a decently notorious bug that would cause weapons to lose double their durability than they were supposed to because the durability check happened per-frame despite the engine now running at 60fps. That's true, and it devastated some heavy weapons who potentially lingered "inside" enemies but I was thinking of the person who said "DS2 would mess up if you went above 30 FPS". Someone was wrong on the internet.
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Nov 12, 2015 05:14
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President Ark posted:i'm pretty sure humans are incapable of seeing any noticeable difference above ~90fps, anyone who tells you otherwise is lying My monitor sure as hell can't, which is why this argument always makes me giggle.
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Nov 12, 2015 05:46
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Nuebot posted:Demoknight was always kind of awful because every time you saw a demo on your team and thought "Finally, someone's going to clear out this engineer nest" it'd just be a demoknight charging endlessly to its sentry death. PYF Funniest human brain glitch
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Nov 12, 2015 06:15
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Your Computer posted:That's true, and it devastated some heavy weapons who potentially lingered "inside" enemies but I was thinking of the person who said "DS2 would mess up if you went above 30 FPS". Someone was wrong on the internet. That was me and I said dark souls 1 specifically and it did actually break the game in parts if you didn't keep the framerate capped
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Nov 12, 2015 07:01
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flatluigi posted:The Dark Souls 2 namedrop was because of a decently notorious bug that would cause weapons to lose double their durability than they were supposed to because the durability check happened per-frame despite the engine now running at 60fps.
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Nov 12, 2015 07:36
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the best dark souls glitch is how in the pc version now if you summon someone with more than 8 characters your game crashes
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Nov 12, 2015 07:52
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