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The Butcher posted:Quick whole life insurance question. My wife's mom was convinced that my now-wife needed life insurance at the ripe old age of 18. Fast forward 12 years, now we're married and the premium bill showed up and I'm trying to figure out how bad she's been screwed over the years. It looks like the policy was for $20k with paid-up additional coverage of $2063.48 (not sure what this is but it has gone up $100-200/yr ). The annual premium is now $219.40. Guaranteed cash value is $780, cash value of paid-up additional insurance is $227.94, cash surrender value is $1007.94. I looked back at the old statements and it looks like the cash surrender value increases by approximately 60% of the annual premium each year. Does this mean that we're effectively paying $219.40 x 0.40 = $88 per year for $22k life insurance coverage? Looking at responses to The Butcher's question, it looks like we'd get $1007.94 if we cash out now. I'm tempted to do this because she definitely does not need life insurance. No debts and I am the primary bread-winner. I appreciate any thoughts on these numbers. My gut feeling is it's a rip off (Thrivent Financial, any financial institution masquerading as a religious entity feels really shady) but wasn't sure if there was any benefit to keeping it since the first 13 premiums are a sunk cost.
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Nov 4, 2015 17:24
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Saint Fu posted:I too have a whole life policy question. She should absolutely have a life policy because everyone should  Thats just me being an insurance guy.I would hope you'd get a bit more cash value out of a whole policy than that. What you COULD do is just stop paying premium and let the cash value pay for the policy until it runs out. $88 a year for $22k Isn't really that bad, but remember that cash value is locked up in the policy. The flip side of this is that right now she isn't making money and you're the bread winner, but what about the future? Does she plan on contributing no income to the household forever? Is her value to your well being and family a zero in terms of dollars? My guess is that the answer to both of these is no. This means that she should probably have SOME kind of life insurance. For example, my wife isn't the main bread winner, but if she died, I'd want some help to take care of the kiddo, pay off the house, and free up my now-single-dad self. Its not all about income.
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Nov 4, 2015 17:49
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Thanks for the reply, didn't mean to get into a discussion on whether she needs insurance or not, more of just trying to understand the numbers of the current policy so we can crunch our own numbers and decide if it's worth it. So am I right that if we cash it out, we'd get the cash surrender value of $1007? Or would we get the guaranteed cash value of $780? Is there any way to know how much the cash surrender value will go up every year or is it dependent on the market or the company's internal investments?
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Nov 4, 2015 18:05
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Saint Fu posted:Thanks for the reply, didn't mean to get into a discussion on whether she needs insurance or not, more of just trying to understand the numbers of the current policy so we can crunch our own numbers and decide if it's worth it. You can always call the company and ask  But yes it sounds right. Cash value is what the policy would be worth if you cashed it out, so it sounds like you're due $1007. Guaranteed value means that it'll always have at least $780 for you since you've been paying on it for so long. I am pretty sure the clauses in a lot of those policies don't allow you to stack the two. You either cash out and get $1007 or the policy goes bust and you get $780. As to your last point, its both. Often there is a guaranteed value that they stand behind and are contract bound to pay, that is going to be your guaranteed value. They have to honor that. The other part is how well the policy does as far as dividends and the like. That is going to be that cash value.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:29
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Jastiger posted:You can always call the company and ask To add to this...make sure you ask the company to withhold taxes on this if there will be any. Lots of companies have that ability, and that way you don't forget to claim you got this money triggering a tax issue. Best to just make sure and ask about those taxes. :P
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Nov 4, 2015 21:19
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OssiansFolly posted:To add to this...make sure you ask the company to withhold taxes on this if there will be any. Lots of companies have that ability, and that way you don't forget to claim you got this money triggering a tax issue. Best to just make sure and ask about those taxes. :P There's no taxable event here. The annual premium is $219.40 and it's in the 12th policy year, so the cost basis is $2632.80 (well in excess of the cash surrender value).
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Nov 4, 2015 21:40
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danielski posted:There's no taxable event here. The annual premium is $219.40 and it's in the 12th policy year, so the cost basis is $2632.80 (well in excess of the cash surrender value). He's right to keep an eye towards taxes, but in this case there is likely no tax owed since it looks like the cost basis has been eclipsed. Still good advice.
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Nov 4, 2015 22:26
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Could I deduct it as a tax-loss?
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Nov 4, 2015 22:29
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Saint Fu posted:Could I deduct it as a tax-loss? You'd really want to his up an accountant for tax specific purposes because everyones situation is unique. To make it easy what you'd want to do is have the company withold back the 10% just in case there is a penalty on it, but there likely isn't one.
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Nov 4, 2015 22:35
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Jastiger posted:You can always call the company and ask This is almost certainly a participating traditional Whole Life Policy, so the Guaranteed Cash Value refers to the tabular cash values (which were illustrated in the original contract) which were guaranteed as long as premiums were paid. The Paid up Additions (PUAs) is Paid Up coverage which was purchased with the dividends earned on the contract and while future PUAs are not guaranteed, those reported on the statement have already been paid up and don't go away. NAIC model regulations include a requirement that Life Insurance companies provide an illustration upon request (up to one per year free of charge) which would show the future Guaranteed Cash Value and Cash Surrender Value at both guaranteed and current assumptions if you continue to pay premiums on the policy. It should also show the amount of paid up insurance that your cash value would purchase if you were to stop paying premium and invoke the non-forfeiture option. With all that said, unless she's uninsurable, you would almost certainly be better off surrendering this policy and just finding a good Term Policy. Even though Whole Life policies are bad value for most consumers, there are situations where you should keep the policy because you've already paid off the sales expense and you are getting better return on your money going forward, but if 40% of your premium is still being eaten by mortality charges, then you haven't hit that point yet.
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Nov 4, 2015 22:55
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Jastiger posted:You'd really want to his up an accountant for tax specific purposes because everyones situation is unique. To make it easy what you'd want to do is have the company withold back the 10% just in case there is a penalty on it, but there likely isn't one. I'm not legally qualified to offer tax advice. However, it's very well established that only the Gain is taxable. You rarely have a gain on a traditional whole life policy.
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Nov 4, 2015 22:57
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This is a really fun and informative thread. It seems like the majority of posting goons are either agents or claims adjusters. Are there any lurking underwriters, analyst, or actuaries? Might not be as helpful for the Q/A but it would be interesting to hear from the back end of the insurance enterprise as well as the front.
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Nov 5, 2015 04:26
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Virtue posted:This is a really fun and informative thread. It seems like the majority of posting goons are either agents or claims adjusters. Are there any lurking underwriters, analyst, or actuaries? Might not be as helpful for the Q/A but it would be interesting to hear from the back end of the insurance enterprise as well as the front. I have underwriting experience, but it was only 3 months. I didn't really enjoy it.
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Nov 5, 2015 16:08
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Virtue posted:This is a really fun and informative thread. It seems like the majority of posting goons are either agents or claims adjusters. Are there any lurking underwriters, analyst, or actuaries? Might not be as helpful for the Q/A but it would be interesting to hear from the back end of the insurance enterprise as well as the front. I'm an underwriter! In E&S, so there's never any questions I can help with.  (edit) vvv I do know some (thanks, mind-numbing CPCU classes)! But since it's not my area of expertise I defer to everyone else. As soon as someone comes in with a high-hazard question I am so ready though. 13Pandora13 fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 5, 2015 18:25
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13Pandora13 posted:I'm an underwriter! In E&S, so there's never any questions I can help with. HAHA yea MOST questions in this thread are no where near your UW expertise. Doesn't mean you don't know answers (I am sure you have gained lots of knowledge).
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Nov 5, 2015 19:33
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Virtue posted:This is a really fun and informative thread. It seems like the majority of posting goons are either agents or claims adjusters. Are there any lurking underwriters, analyst, or actuaries? Might not be as helpful for the Q/A but it would be interesting to hear from the back end of the insurance enterprise as well as the front. I'm a lurking Life and Annuity IT consultant. I've spanned both the Business Analyst and Programmer roles, along with having passed a few Actuarial exams. My experience has been mostly focused on system conversions, but since Life Insurance contracts stay in force for a long time (I've worked on conversions involving policies issued in the 20s) my job has given me a very broad view in to how Life Insurance contracts have changed over time. I also get a good view in to the current trends of what is actually being sold in the market as compared to the great new things which require big investments for the administration systems and then don't sell more than a few dozen contracts. I've been in the industry for 15 years, working for a couple of different vendors, as well as a stint for one carrier, so I've got a good deal of familiarity with the Life and Annuity products which have been sold by a large proportion of the major US carriers.
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Nov 5, 2015 22:54
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How often do free ance artists get liability insurance? What kind of limits do they typically get? If you plan on taking on contracts, I'm guessing E&O would be a good idea?
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Nov 12, 2015 07:57
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Artists? Are they going to sue you if they don't like the work? If you have a business, then sure, grab some insurance to protect yourself for all of the weird things that can happen. I'm not sure what else you'd get as an artist. 
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Nov 12, 2015 14:36
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You have models that will be in your studio/home. There was some concern about that. Also if the business was based in an apartment, renters insurance wouldn't cover the business side of things.
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Nov 12, 2015 14:44
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Sperg Victorious posted:You have models that will be in your studio/home. There was some concern about that. Also if the business was based in an apartment, renters insurance wouldn't cover the business side of things. You'd likely just be looking for Liability coverage (both premises and products & completed operations). If you have lots of camera equipment or fancy computers you'd like covered then some property coverage, but for this type of exposure the bulk of premium will be in Property coverage. Just Liability should probably leave you at minimum premiums in most cases as the risk of the exposure is fairly low. You shouldn't need E&O or Professional Liability...
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Nov 12, 2015 16:06
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So what about medical insurance while traveling abroad? Ill be in multiple countries for at least a year and want to know my options or if its just a total ?
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Nov 17, 2015 07:46
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OMG LOL BUTSEKZ posted:So what about medical insurance while traveling abroad? Ill be in multiple countries for at least a year and want to know my options or if its just a total ? That is definitely outside my scope of knowledge...
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Nov 17, 2015 14:28
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OMG LOL BUTSEKZ posted:So what about medical insurance while traveling abroad? Ill be in multiple countries for at least a year and want to know my options or if its just a total ?
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Nov 17, 2015 14:42
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Does Travelers Insurance have a good reputation? They underwrite Renters for Geico, and their quote is ridiculously good (125/year for full Replacement Coverage on $30,000 worth of property and $400,000 liability, and then a 3% discount on my Geico car insurance on top of that). I'm wondering what the catch is.
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Nov 17, 2015 17:05
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EugeneJ posted:Does Travelers Insurance have a good reputation? The catch is that it'd probably be cheaper to go to them direct. They are a good company. Should drop GEICI and go travellers. The health question I don't know.
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Nov 17, 2015 17:22
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EugeneJ posted:Does Travelers Insurance have a good reputation? Honestly...that $125 is probably minimum premium so you won't get anything lower there. Travelers is a good company. I write for them and haven't had any negative interactions with them. Now if you were writing your home with them I'd warn you they are going to inspect the poo poo out of that property. Travelers rates have been REALLY good since they aggressively moved to be more competitive. I'd just take the policy and move on...make sure you have $300k at least in Liability, $5k in Med Pay and enough contents coverage. Don't get sucked into the premium because if you are at the minimum premium now you can probably get much more coverage for very little (if any) difference. Edit: For good measure.
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Nov 17, 2015 17:42
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OssiansFolly posted:Honestly...that $125 is probably minimum premium so you won't get anything lower there. Did you even read past his first question? No carrier is going to inspect a renter's policy and his quote is over the $300k liability limit you recommended.EugeneJ - The Traveler's quote should be fine. They're one of the largest carriers in the nation. $30k seems like a low contents limit though -- like Ossians said, if you are at a min premium you can increase that for free. It's worth it to spend the time to at least go through and add up the value of at least your valuable belongings, if you haven't already done that. Dango Bango fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 22:39
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I live in a small unit and $30,000 is pretty accurate from my estimates. I'd switch from GEICO, but I had an at-fault auto accident less than 2 years ago that makes any other company's auto premiums stupid-high for the time being. At least by getting the Traveler's renters policy through GEICO I can save 3% (roughly $30) of the auto premium and the net cost of the renters policy would be $95. Thanks guys.
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Nov 18, 2015 02:18
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OMG LOL BUTSEKZ posted:So what about medical insurance while traveling abroad? Ill be in multiple countries for at least a year and want to know my options or if its just a total ? A number of plans will cover emergencies abroad. Are you looking for something more specific?
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Nov 18, 2015 23:23
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Help me understand health insurance because I'm too stupid. I was reviewing the plan offered by my wife's job and it seems like it makes more sense to split and have her sign up herself. My current plan has the maximum out of pocket, $13,000 as a family, while her only has about $1,500 for the mid tier plan for individual. In terms of planning for a baby, it seems like a no brainer to split due to the lower out of pocket maximum and lower premiums overall. However, when I read my Empire Plan's Insurance Certificate, more specifically the Hospital section it looks like I'm only on the hook for a co-payment, if any. I created this table breaking down of the various premium scenarios and associated plan costs. I've also uploaded both plan descriptions. The Anthem Plan is through my wife while the The Empire Plan is mine Is there something I'm not seeing? There is also a financial incentive of $3,000 if I forego my insurance plan and sign up with my wife's. That would easily offset the $55 surcharge on my wife's plan. But if I'm interpreting my Empire Plan correctly, I don't really pay deductibles/out of pocket when I'm using in network providers.
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Nov 22, 2015 03:58
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Typically when a plan summary says "no copay" it means you pay the full cost until you hit your deductible at which point the coinsurance kicks in.
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Nov 22, 2015 05:25
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moonsour posted:Typically when a plan summary says "no copay" it means you pay the full cost until you hit your deductible at which point the coinsurance kicks in. Ah, so with the Empire plan I would pay $1,000 deductible then the $3,000 coinsurance then an extra $2,850 in out pocket before insurance covers everything. This would mean the Anthem plan is a lot better since the deductible and out of pocket maximum are significantly lower. glassyalabolas fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Nov 22, 2015 |
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Nov 22, 2015 05:35
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That's right. General if it says "X% after deductible" it means you're paying 100% until the deductible is met, then they pay the percentage amount. Your wife's plan sounds better because you're on the hook for less up front and yiu still have a nice percentage from them.
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Nov 22, 2015 05:50
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glassyalabolas posted:Ah, so with the Empire plan I would pay $1,000 deductible then the $3,000 coinsurance then an extra $2,850 in out pocket before insurance covers everything. Yes, but always remember that insurance companies negotiate poo poo down with hospitals. I know the numbers presented above won't change, but want to point out having insurance/using insurance for every medical visit is beneficial even if it is a small office visit. Always turn in everything and let your insurance negotiate poo poo. But, yes absolutely go with the wife's plan...that is silly compared to yours.
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Nov 23, 2015 17:37
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I'm a math undergrad looking at insurance careers and I have some questions for the "back end" insurance folks, if you have the time! danielski posted:I'm a lurking Life and Annuity IT consultant. I've spanned both the Business Analyst and Programmer roles, along with having passed a few Actuarial exams. My experience has been mostly focused on system conversions, but since Life Insurance contracts stay in force for a long time (I've worked on conversions involving policies issued in the 20s) my job has given me a very broad view in to how Life Insurance contracts have changed over time. I also get a good view in to the current trends of what is actually being sold in the market as compared to the great new things which require big investments for the administration systems and then don't sell more than a few dozen contracts. - What made you decide to get into the insurance industry? - What was your entry-level role in the industry, and what would you say the primary factors were in you getting that position? - How did you make the transition between your various roles? - Did you pass your actuarial exams before or after you entered the industry, and how do they play into your career goals? - How closely do analysts and actuaries work in the company where you were employed as a Business Analyst? Did this vary from company to company? - What do you think is the most important soft skill to succeed as a consultant? For an analyst? - How do you see the benefits and drawbacks of working in Life & Annuity (vs P&C)? 13Pandora13 posted:I'm an underwriter! In E&S, so there's never any questions I can help with. - How did you get into the insurance industry, and how long have you been working in insurance? - What was your entry-level role in the industry, and what would you say the primary factors were in you getting that position? - Have you done any roles other than underwriting? - How would you like your career trajectory to look? - What do you think is the most important soft skill to succeed as an underwriter? - How is working in E&S? Any major benefits/drawbacks compared to more traditional P&C jobs? Is it more challenging/exciting? - What are some aspects of your job (and of E&S) that you didn't expect going in? Thanks for your help, and if any other insurance math folks are lurking, I'd be grateful to hear from you too.
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Nov 28, 2015 03:16
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I'm on agent on the front end and know a lot of people on back end. I can only say that almost everyone with a math focus is an actuary or some such, with perhaps some business strategy thrown in. Almost no one else in the back end from Underwriting, to Product Development, to Marketing, etc has a math degree. Math folks tend to go right to actuarial work and business analysis.
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Nov 28, 2015 03:58
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Jastiger posted:I'm on agent on the front end and know a lot of people on back end. I can only say that almost everyone with a math focus is an actuary or some such, with perhaps some business strategy thrown in. Almost no one else in the back end from Underwriting, to Product Development, to Marketing, etc has a math degree. Math folks tend to go right to actuarial work and business analysis. This is true. If you're that interested in math, you want to go actuarial or product. Underwriting isn't going to result in a lot of direct math work. And that's coming from a guy who started out college in computer science and got a math minor before switching to business and getting a commercial underwriting job. I feel like I use way more math than my peers.
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Nov 28, 2015 04:16
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Saeku posted:I'm a math undergrad looking at insurance careers and I have some questions for the "back end" insurance folks, if you have the time! I went in to the insurance industry because it was the industry I was most familiar with. My Dad worked in IT for an insurance company and my older brother was a pension actuary. Who knows, if they had been in the banking industry maybe I'd be a banker today. With that said, I kind of fell in to the IT side of things. I was a math major, computer science minor in college and was expecting to be an actuary. However, I applied for a summer internship program at the insurance company my dad worked for the summer after my freshman year, and when they asked whether I wanted to intern in the IT department or the actuarial department I chose IT since I hadn't passed any exams yet and I figured I could switch it up the following summer. Then I got involved in a project that was continuing past the end of the internship and they offered me a job as a part time programmer when I went back to school. I ended up working part time (remotely) during the school year and full time during the summers for the rest of college. By the time I graduated, the 3 years of real world IT experience ended up being worth more in salary than the two actuarial exams I passed. I'll try to get back and answer some more of your questions later, but I do want to say that even though the IT side worked out for me, I wouldn't recommend it for someone trying to get in to the industry now. There are only a few companies that are still hiring college recruits in to their IT departments in the Insurance industry these days as most of them have shifted to using offshore contractors for the more junior work. That trend was starting in earnest as I was entering the industry, and has now expanded to include business analyst roles as well as programmer roles.
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Nov 28, 2015 15:00
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Can I get renter's insurance abroad? I live in the Gulf, and would love to get a policy to cover myself out here. But I'm entirely unfamiliar if there are insurance providers here - do any US companies offer coverage for units located outside the US? Also, I guess now that I have two kids I should start looking into life insurance...my company will stop offering Term life at the end of this year. I really wanted to postpone this decision as long as possible >.<
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Nov 29, 2015 14:01
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kaishek posted:Can I get renter's insurance abroad? I live in the Gulf, and would love to get a policy to cover myself out here. But I'm entirely unfamiliar if there are insurance providers here - do any US companies offer coverage for units located outside the US? My company used Clements for renter's insurance while I was overseas. I'm not sure they cover all areas of the world and how they price compare, but I thought they were great. The claim I had to file was processed quickly and they had great customer service.
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Nov 29, 2015 14:24
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