|
kazil posted:I mean, FO3 was actually good. You can look back on it from 7 years on and after NV, but at the time it was really fun and innovative. FO3 was a lazy recycle of FO1 and 2, though.
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 08:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 19:14 |
|
Inspector Gesicht posted:The PC in Fallout 4 was in a hetero-marriage with a son, only for their spouse to be killed and their son kidnapped. The PC's quest is to find their son. That's not back-story and motivation, that's just baggage that needlessly limits role-playing. This isn't the "The Last of Us", it's a sandbox RPG. No players are going to give enough of a poo poo to make finding their uncanny-valley infant-son, whom they knew for all of five minutes, a priority. Does a setting this colourful need the old "It's Personal" cliche to get the ball rolling?
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 09:50
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:The worst thing about it is that while you're free to do whatever and do your best to forget about the backstory, you can't. You talk to someone and the dialogue inevitably comes back around to "Hey, maybe you can find your son there!" and then I'm taken right out of the game because I'd just been running around shooting bandits and stealing everything I can, this dude does not give any shits about his son. Secondly, how did this guy even know! I've never met him before. Why does everyone magically know my character is looking for his son, and why are like three fourths of the dialogue options "my son!". It doesn't help at all that the blandest, most passive voice ever was chosen for the dude and it only possibly suits the most generic whitest dude you can make. You can't even make a grizzled old man without it sounding weird because half the time you talk to someone he's like "hey..." like he's trying to convince a hurt puppy to come out of hiding. Wait. Is the protagonist Harry Mason?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 09:53
|
|
|
Yes. Except less charismatic.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 09:54
|
|
|
Thing dragging down Fallout 4 is that they didn't license the Heavy Rain SHAAAAAAWWWWNNNNNNN!!!! audio clip
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 10:08
|
|
Sentient Data posted:Thing dragging down Fallout 4 is that they didn't license the Heavy Rain SHAAAAAAWWWWNNNNNNN!!!! audio clip I hope someone makes a mod that replaces all of the sarcastic dialogue options with that.
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 10:10
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:The worst thing about it is that while you're free to do whatever and do your best to forget about the backstory, you can't. You talk to someone and the dialogue inevitably comes back around to "Hey, maybe you can find your son there!" and then I'm taken right out of the game because I'd just been running around shooting bandits and stealing everything I can, this dude does not give any shits about his son. Secondly, how did this guy even know! I've never met him before. Why does everyone magically know my character is looking for his son, and why are like three fourths of the dialogue options "my son!". It doesn't help at all that the blandest, most passive voice ever was chosen for the dude and it only possibly suits the most generic whitest dude you can make. You can't even make a grizzled old man without it sounding weird because half the time you talk to someone he's like "hey..." like he's trying to convince a hurt puppy to come out of hiding. Who cares? The dialogue would be poo poo regardless if it was tied into the main story, regardless if your character was a poof or straight and regardless if the driving goal of the game was to find your son or not. Getting upset about the dialogue getting in the way of roleplaying is pointless in a Bethesda game, because your character will always be a weapon that hovers 5.6 feet off the ground which engages in flaccid combat and hoovers up trash as its only interaction with the world. It doesn't matter what the pretext is because the result is the same garbage. It's a Bethesda game, even if it had a great story with the correct politics, it would still be functionally identical. Stop caring about worthless poo poo
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 10:46
|
|
|
That's true. Since the game's by Bethesda, all negative comments are invalid, so it's actually a perfect game!
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 11:01
|
|
|
Don't criticize a role playing game for not being very good at letting you role play, in a thread about criticizing games.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 11:01
|
|
|
Glokta posted:What's dragging Fallout 4 down for me is that it's only easy to build on flat ground which there's gently caress all of. No wonder people are looking to me for help if i'm building them hovering houses to live in. In Structures->Wood->Floors there are Foundations that sink into the ground- they come in two flavors, concrete and wood. Makes a world of difference!
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 11:04
|
|
|
Yeah Bro posted:Who cares? *makes sweeping arm gestures toward everyone else with similar complaints*
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 11:05
|
|
|
Sentient Data posted:That's true. Since the game's by Bethesda, all negative comments are invalid, so it's actually a perfect game! The point is that the explanation for the problem is too narrow. If the main character being straight is what drags the game down for you, you mustn't have been paying attention. The game and series is garbage from top to bottom.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 11:06
|
|
|
Your point is "stop complaining about a AAA game's dialogue being worse than the game in the series before it, because I am cynical beyond all loving belief and nobody should try to enjoy these video games at all" Seriously dude shut the gently caress up
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 11:11
|
|
|
death .cab for qt posted:Your point is "stop complaining about a AAA game's dialogue being worse than the game in the series before it, because I am cynical beyond all loving belief and nobody should try to enjoy these video games at all" As someone who played the previous game, it's hard to imagine that it could be worse. It's a symbolic complaint on behalf of those making that complaint, I have identified the reality of that complaint, that should be the end of the issue.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 11:19
|
|
|
Alteisen posted:its pretty clear they don't have the slightest idea why people liked New Vegas so much. They don't have to care why people liked New Vegas. New Vegas only exists because the modern gaming audience loved Fallout 3. Pandering to the NV devotees would be needlessly reducing your audience. You think 'Obsidian made this' is a selling point for the majority of Fallout fans who got hooked on Fallout from 3? MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 11:38 on Nov 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 11:34
|
|
|
Yeah Bro posted:The point is that the explanation for the problem is too narrow. If the main character being straight is what drags the game down for you, you mustn't have been paying attention. The game and series is garbage from top to bottom. I don't think you're actually paying attention to us so much as just flouting your superiority over recognizing A Bad Game, but I'm going to go ahead and explain the issue, as I see it, in a simple way so that maybe you can understand. I like Bethesda games, warts and all, because they let you be and do anything. Sure, in objective terms they are poorly constructed by most any metric, being generally unbalanced, roughly-written, and poorly-coded. If they were in a blow-by-blow comparison with a similar game, they would lose heartily. But nobody else is trying, so there is nowhere else to go. While I wish we didn't, we kind of have to accept Bethesda's flaws because they are the only people offering something a huge amount of people want: a self-directed sandbox, where everybody can play their own character in their own way. The vessel is flawed, but we want what's inside enough to forgive all that. Except this time, because we've now had the ability to have our own character taken away. The core element of the entire reason we buy and play the games has been ruined, for no good reason. Everything surrounding it is more or less the Bethesda standard, maybe a little better, and we've gotten used to that enough to accept it. But this is a new problem, that gets in the way of the reason we play the game in the first place. Yes, we know the games aren't as good as they could be. We know this isn't the only problem with it, or necessarily the worst one from an objective standpoint. But it's the one that gets the most in the way of the reason we play the game. It's a bit like a Pokemon game that only lets us catch Flying types.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 11:51
|
|
|
Fallout 4 is a drat fine sequel to Fallout 3 (with all the damning praise that implies), but the introduction made me think it was going to be worse than it actually is. New Vegas opened with sociopolitical intrigue regarding a frontier-turned-warzone, and ended with some fucker shooting you in the face. Then it woke you up and patted you on the rear end and said, "go find some answers, skippy!" Holy poo poo, I was invested. Fallout 4 opens with "Hey remember this cool stuff from the other Fallout games?" played on fast-forward, and dangles a missing baby in front of you as a plot motivator despite the fact that you'll probably forget his name after your fiftieth hour of digging through the ruins of Boston for old coffee mugs to build your ramshackle empire. It took a few more hours of gameplay and some more interaction to realize that the writing isn't too terrible. It's not good, but there's some okay stories and half-decent characters in there to help lubricate your time exploring rooftops and sniping giant mosquitoes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 11:51
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:Except this time, because we've now had the ability to have our own character taken away. The core element of the entire reason we buy and play the games has been ruined, for no good reason. Everything surrounding it is more or less the Bethesda standard, maybe a little better, and we've gotten used to that enough to accept it. But this is a new problem, that gets in the way of the reason we play the game in the first place. What is "your character"? How does "your character" come in to existence and how does "your character" materially effect the game? The truth is, of course, that "your character" never actually existed as there is no way to express "your character" within the framework of a Bethesda rpg. Regardless of how you wish to imagine "your character", your interaction with the system is identical. This is true in all the fall out games
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 12:05
|
|
|
Tweet Me Balls posted:New Vegas opened with sociopolitical intrigue regarding a frontier-turned-warzone, and ended with some fucker shooting you in the face. Then it woke you up and patted you on the rear end and said, "go find some answers, skippy!" Holy poo poo, I was invested. What dragged down New Vegas was that they removed the only ending that made sense, given the amount and quality of motivation it was capable of generating about the city.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 12:12
|
|
|
MisterBibs posted:What dragged down New Vegas was that they removed the only ending that made sense, given the amount and quality of motivation it was capable of generating about the city. There should have been a "gently caress this, I'm going home" ending allowing you to leave at the NCR checkpoint on the edge of the Mojave.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 12:29
|
|
|
Another thing that drags down FO4 is that the menus are really, really bad and confusing and all the online sources, discussions and various places google points you to are too busy arguing whether or not it is a poo poo game, or jerking off about how awesome the world is to clear up mystifying things like if there's any way to just break all my items down into components without having to rely on three different work benches. Even then I've got a whole pile of useless misc. items that I can't seem to do anything with until I need to build something, but they're taking up inventory space!
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 12:43
|
|
|
Yeah Bro posted:What is "your character"? How does "your character" come in to existence and how does "your character" materially effect the game? The truth is, of course, that "your character" never actually existed as there is no way to express "your character" within the framework of a Bethesda rpg. Regardless of how you wish to imagine "your character", your interaction with the system is identical. This is true in all the fall out games What, do you want a fuckin' medal? All you're doing is hating a series so hard that you drown out all specific criticism of specific instances with this insistence that the formula is broken at a basic level. It might well be, but your point has, I'd hope, been expressed by now. Previous Fallout games have left your character an explicit blur before the game starts. In Fallout 2 you were 'some tribal.' In Fallout 3 you were 'some vault dweller.' In New Vegas you were 'some courier.' The specifics of who you actually are were very much left up to you- you came from x, you got a job at y, you can do z. There are a shitton of people who could fall into those roles, and all of them could be you. Fallout 4 makes you, explicitly, a straight parent. Do you not see how that writes a hell of a lot of unwanted character into a backstory that was normally left explicitly vague? Rather than the player being allowed to think whatever they fuckin' want about this character whose backstory is a vague smear, Bethesda clarified a big ol' slab of that person, and their history, in a way that a lot of players didn't want it to be. Bethesda games are not written with a specific protagonist in mind. This isn't the Witcher where it's just fine that Geralt only has female love interests because he isn't meant to be you. This is Fallout, where you are encouraged to build yourself a nice blank slate protagonist to go through the motions with, except instead of 'has a job' or 'grew up in a place' or 'can eat dragons' they've written in 'is straight and got married and [(F) got a law degree / (M) was in the military] and had a male kid that they love very much and their spouse is dead.' I don't want that poo poo to be defined for my protagonist. That's a lot of not-blank that I now have to work into all future thoughts about that character. I shouldn't have to ignore the story that has been written in order to play the character I want in a series which has built itself around playing the character I want. I can, and I know that I can. But I shouldn't have to. Somfin has a new favorite as of 12:58 on Nov 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 12:56
|
|
|
Yeah Bro posted:BUT YOU CANNOT BE YOUR OWN CHARACTER BECAUSE OF PRE-WRITTEN DIALOGUE I AM A ROBOT WHO DOES NOT UNDERSTAND 'ROLE-PLAYING' AND 'MAKING YOUR OWN FUN' BEEP BOOP e:also Yeah Bro posted:YOU CANNOT GIVE YOUR CHARACTER PERSONALITY BECAUSE THERE IS NO PERSONALITY METER IN THE GAME AND IF THERE ARE NO SPECIFIC MECHANICS FOR SOMETHING IN THE GAME'S FRAMEWORK THEN YOU CANNOT DO IT PubicMice has a new favorite as of 13:17 on Nov 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 13:11
|
|
|
PubicMice posted:e:also lol, you loving dweeb. Keep trying with those pissweak burns, dude. e: actually, don't bother. The conversation stemmed from a boring complaint and has continued in a very boring way. No need to keep it alive. Yeah Bro has a new favorite as of 14:37 on Nov 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 14:29
|
|
|
Yeah Bro posted:What is "your character"? How does "your character" come in to existence and how does "your character" materially effect the game? The truth is, of course, that "your character" never actually existed as there is no way to express "your character" within the framework of a Bethesda rpg. Regardless of how you wish to imagine "your character", your interaction with the system is identical. This is true in all the fall out games The way you interact with the system doesn't need to change for the system to be flexible enough for you to role play a broad range of characters, and even if it did, your interaction absolutely does change with your character. If I decided my character is a socially inept idiot who can't keep their mouth shut, I'm going to have low charisma and speech but pick all the speech check dialogue anyway. If I'm some insane scientist (who just picked up the courier job since insane science isn't really an in-demand skillset) I'm going to use energy weapons and have high intelligence. If I'm  I'm using nothing but explosives.Fallout 4 appends "who is a law graduate/ex-military middle-to-upper class parent happily married in the Boston suburbs" to the description of anyone you want to be, which really clashes with a lot of characters people might want to make and also makes a lot of the dialogue choices/decisions available to you really strange. Like walking out of the vault a perceived hour after you entered it and blowing up codsworth for no reason. It's a fair complaint when it's what the series is known for. quote:e: actually, don't bother. The conversation stemmed from a boring complaint and has continued in a very boring way. No need to keep it alive. Uh oh I don't know how to respond to these people anymore uhhh gently caress
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 14:44
|
|
|
Gestalt Intellect posted:Uh oh I don't know how to respond to these people anymore uhhh gently caress No, as I said, the conversation surrounding the complaint was boring. I entered into the conversation to try and make it less boring, forgetting that the cause of boring conversations is less boring subject matter and more boring people. I shouldn't have bothered engaging with y'all, cuz your only response has been to repeat the same boring complaint in far too many ways and dropping the flimsiest burns possible.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 14:53
|
|
|
I'm playing the remake of Ocarina of Time so I can learn why people continue to expel warm, white nostalgia fluid over the game. Please tell me there's an in-game checklist for the 100 golden spiders. Minish Cap was simply horrid in that there wasn't way to remember which collectibles you had picked up, while Link to the Past had the perfect balance as you could 100 percent it easily in three sittings. I really wish they had gone 2D for the DS Zelda games. The 3d environments do not hold up and are incredibly bland to look at.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 14:59
|
|
|
Gestalt Intellect posted:Fallout 4 appends "who is a law graduate/ex-military middle-to-upper class parent happily married in the Boston suburbs" to the description of anyone you want to be, which really clashes with a lot of characters people might want to make and also makes a lot of the dialogue choices/decisions available to you really strange. Like walking out of the vault a perceived hour after you entered it and blowing up codsworth for no reason. It's a fair complaint when it's what the series is known for. Because there is no way that the ony survivor of a vault-tec administered science experiment could ever have been adversely effected by the experiment? The side effects of cryosleep could be anything you wanted them to be.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 14:59
|
|
|
You weren't really expected to get all 100 spiders through a normal blind playthrough, so there's no in-game tracking. The useful rewards stop at the 50th, the only real reason to intentionally scrounge out all 100 is if you're a total completionist since Nintendo doesn't even bother to track achievements vvv: Pretty sure dungeon maps show it now that you mention it, but there are plenty of places hidden in the overworld and I don't think the general map itself showed that Sentient Data has a new favorite as of 15:31 on Nov 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 15:03
|
|
|
Actually doesn't a skulltula show up next to an area's name on the map if you've found all of them in that area? That was pretty much the standard of tracking collectables back in the day, like Donkey Kong Country added a ! to a level's name if you found all the bonus rooms.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 15:17
|
|
|
Tweet Me Balls posted:There should have been a "gently caress this, I'm going home" ending allowing you to leave at the NCR checkpoint on the edge of the Mojave. This was precisely the deleted ending that took place at that location. The game tells you a lot you're a courier who takes his job seriously and doesn't stay in one place. You deliver poo poo, you leave.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 18:07
|
|
|
Yeah Bro posted:What is "your character"? How does "your character" come in to existence and how does "your character" materially effect the game? The truth is, of course, that "your character" never actually existed as there is no way to express "your character" within the framework of a Bethesda rpg. Regardless of how you wish to imagine "your character", your interaction with the system is identical. This is true in all the fall out games And that's what some people like, I guess, being able to impose their own imagination on a total blank slate - it just confuses me because you can effectively role-play just as much with a notepad file and some action figures  Bethesda games have their own weird skinner-box appeal for me but I can't even be bothered trying FO4.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 18:30
|
|
|
SiKboy posted:Because there is no way that the ony survivor of a vault-tec administered science experiment could ever have been adversely effected by the experiment? The side effects of cryosleep could be anything you wanted them to be. You can say 'waking up in the apocalypse changes someone' all you want, and you'd have a very strong point that I'd agree with you on, but only if the game itself were capable of following through on that. Sadly, this is where the limited dialog choices and voiced protagonist come in. I would love to say that the effects of cryosleep and/or finding themselves in a world that's been practically obliterated could turn a suburbanite lawyer into the kind of person I typically play in these sorts of games, but that isn't what the game says. The character is written as if the cryosleep didn't much affect them, and certainly they don't sound like it did.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 19:02
|
|
|
I'm enjoying the hell out of FO4 because i don't have crippling Aspergers so not being able role-play every single aspect of my monosyllabic generic shootman doesn't bother me in the slightest. Start enjoying good things and stop sweating the small stuff, you loving retards.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 20:41
|
|
|
None of this matters one tiny iota because the actual thing dragging Fallout 4 down is that you can't pet your dog, or even tell him that he's a good boy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 20:43
|
|
|
Howabout realizing "Oh wait I'm not wearing power armor right now" shortly after jumping off of a big tower/industrial building. Thank god for autosaves.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 20:47
|
|
|
Invisible Inc. is a very good game with kickass soundtrack but how the gently caress did Klei not code any kind of UI scaling? Font size especially - it's 2015, 1080p displays are the standard and the text is tiny if you choose the native resolution. How did this not come up during early access?
Terminally Bored has a new favorite as of 21:10 on Nov 15, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 21:06
|
|
|
spudsbuckley posted:I'm enjoying the hell out of FO4 because i don't have crippling Aspergers so not being able role-play every single aspect of my monosyllabic generic shootman doesn't bother me in the slightest. Yea guys, stop complaining about things in the game complaints thread. Cool aspie joke there bro, very nice, +10 goon points for you, be sure to tell your middle school bros about the epic burn, they'll be thrilled.  quote:They don't have to care why people liked New Vegas. New Vegas only exists because the modern gaming audience loved Fallout 3. Pandering to the NV devotees would be needlessly reducing your audience. How about they just take note on the dialogue worked in New Vegas or hell even Fallout 3 where you could complete an objective before actually finding the mission and such, I don't care about the roleplaying aspect personally but I can understand the people who do, simply put the story is piss weak and Fallout is a series that's always had a blank slate character so its weird they went in this direction. The whole game just a huge step back not simply from F3/NV but Fallout in general, the amount of praise honestly baffles me, to the point where I see people praising lazy game design as something amazing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 21:18
|
|
|
spudsbuckley posted:Start enjoying good things and stop sweating the small stuff, you loving retards. This is the sweating the small stuff thread. Do you complain about people posting cosplay in the cosplay thread?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 21:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 19:14 |
|
|
spudsbuckley posted:I'm enjoying the hell out of FO4 because i don't have crippling Aspergers so not being able role-play every single aspect of my monosyllabic generic shootman doesn't bother me in the slightest.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 21:52
|
|