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WeaponGradeSadness posted:None of this matters one tiny iota because the actual thing dragging Fallout 4 down is that you can't pet your dog, or even tell him that he's a good boy. Dogmeat can fetch me the paper, but there are no slippers for him to retrieve. Game is poo poo.
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Nov 15, 2015 21:54
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spudsbuckley posted:I'm enjoying the hell out of FO4 because i don't have crippling Aspergers so not being able role-play every single aspect of my monosyllabic generic shootman doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm happy for you. You should post all the things you enjoy about Fallout 4 in the PYF little things in games thread.
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Nov 15, 2015 22:38
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spudsbuckley posted:I'm enjoying the hell out of FO4 because i don't have crippling Aspergers so not being able role-play every single aspect of my monosyllabic generic shootman doesn't bother me in the slightest.
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Nov 15, 2015 22:51
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Gestalt Intellect posted:Don't criticize a role playing game for not being very good at letting you role play, in a thread about criticizing games.  It's like Witcher 3 is poo poo because you have to play as Geralt and not Random Scrub Witcher 12. Also yeah 4 totally feels like Fallout 3.5: Now with integrated MODS and STORY! 
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Nov 15, 2015 22:54
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The thing dragging Fallout 4 down for me is that all the doors stopped working in goodneighbor and now my save is broken
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Nov 15, 2015 23:00
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Croccers posted:I dunno, it lets you roleplay as a recently thawed out and singled parent. (I'm not far enough into the story to tell of your partner dying is important or if they even acknowledge it at all so dunno if that cancels out the I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY FORCED TO ME PLAY AS A HETRO! That comparison would be valid if Witcher 1 and 2 let you make, build and play your own character, and then 3 forced you to play as Geralt. For this comparison to be completely valid, Geralt would also have to be kind of a crap choice of protagonist for how most people play the game.
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Nov 15, 2015 23:04
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Yeah Bro is cool and smart like every insufferable college sophomore ever.
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Nov 15, 2015 23:08
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People keep saying the character in Fallout 4 is straight but the fact that I'm digging into Piper hard kind of shoots that point down guys.  Being married doesn't mean you're straight no takebacksies.Anyway - the melee mechanics being broke to hell is frustrating at best. Outside of VATS I can't unsheathe the weapon. When I eventually manage to do so with my health draining down, I can't swing. On the off chance that the stars align right to allow me to swing, the enemy either hits me first and cancels me out, or blocks. When I pop into VATS, it works just fine! I slaughter indiscriminately and even teleport around to enemies 5 feet away to lodge my axe into their rib cages! I just want some kind of happy medium here.
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Nov 15, 2015 23:11
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Gestalt Intellect posted:Don't criticize a role playing game for not being very good at letting you role play, in a thread about criticizing games. Haven't you heard? Opinions are a form of autism these days, cool people just uncritically accept whatever is put in front of them and never think about anything beyond the most superficial level. We must all act, talk, and think like Sex and the City characters.
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Nov 15, 2015 23:36
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Woolie Wool posted:Haven't you heard? Opinions are a form of autism these days, cool people just uncritically accept whatever is put in front of them and never think about anything beyond the most superficial level. We must all act, talk, and think like Sex and the City characters. But if you wanna be super-cool, you have to like and hate things at a fundamental level and never let them be brought up without everyone present being made thoroughly aware of just how much you love or despise that thing. There can be no nuance or grey shades in your opinion- anyone who says anything positive about any aspect of a game must love it in its entirety, and everyone who says anything negative about any aspect of a game must hate it in its entirety. Any counterpoints must be quickly buried in a sea of highlighting or nitpicking so that the flaw or good point is completely minimised by all of the things you have said about it. For bonus points, you also have to internalise that the way that other people play things wrong because they care too much / too little about them, where 'too much' and 'too little' are defined entirely as 'more' or 'less' than yourself.
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Nov 15, 2015 23:43
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But does the game really give a poo poo about your partner dying in the vault or not? People are whining about the married partner thing but I've seen no-one follow this up if it even matters and just comes down to pointless flavour that when cut you'd never notice. Almost like most of the outcry started from people that haven't even played the game Like all this stupid thing floating around Twitter: 
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Nov 15, 2015 23:43
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Inspector Gesicht posted:I'm playing the remake of Ocarina of Time so I can learn why people continue to expel warm, white nostalgia fluid over the game. Please tell me there's an in-game checklist for the 100 golden spiders. Minish Cap was simply horrid in that there wasn't way to remember which collectibles you had picked up, while Link to the Past had the perfect balance as you could 100 percent it easily in three sittings. The dark/light one I can't remember the name of was basically a 2D zelda and aside from being ridiculously easy, was fairly good. Anyway, no. There isn't an easy way to keep track of your gold spiders and god help you if you hosed up and used a bug on a plot of dirt and didn't keep track of which plot of dirt because now you'll have to go through using bugs on every plot of dirt without knowing which ones you've done. But yeah, spider icons show up on areas you've gotten all the spiders in.
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Nov 15, 2015 23:53
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Leal has a new favorite as of 22:32 on May 1, 2019 |
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Nov 16, 2015 00:05
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Like, I know you all think you can complain about fallout 4, but if you think you can out-insufferable me regarding this fantastic and lovely game, let me just go ahead and cut you off at the pass with a Star Trek analogy. Fallout 3 is The Next Generation. It's been years since the original stuff came out. It's clunky, and the world doesn't quite make sense if you take it as a whole, but that's okay because it's really a series of loosely-interlocked vignettes. Some writing is okay, a lot is bad, you get a few gems, and some charming characters here or there. Fallout New Vegas is Deep Space Nine. It's not perfect, and in fact there are some deep flaws, but the more you engage with it, the more you begin to appreciate it for the cohesive narrative and worldbuilding. Black and white morality takes a backseat and characters have to make complicated decisions in a hostile world full of scared people, and just about everyone has some kind of identifiable motivation. Ultimately it couldn't have existed without TNG, but it is arguably more beloved now that time has passed and people come to appreciate its staying power. Also Odo is Mr. House. Fallout 4 is the J.J. Abrams movies. More polished. Flashier. Easier to eat popcorn to and just kick back and let it soak in. They take us back to the chronological "beginning", but to very limited effect. Ultimately it becomes an excuse to retread familiar icons, but does not make any focused effort to actually engage the interesting themes behind them. You kind of get the feeling it would be better if it didn't have the franchise glued to it. Character interactions are largely pointless, but who cares? Pew pew.
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Nov 16, 2015 00:07
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Tweet Me Balls posted:Fallout New Vegas is Deep Space Nine. It's not perfect, and in fact there are some deep flaws, but the more you engage with it, the more you begin to appreciate it for the cohesive narrative and worldbuilding. Black and white morality takes a backseat and characters have to make complicated decisions in a hostile world full of scared people, and just about everyone has some kind of identifiable motivation. Ultimately it couldn't have existed without TNG, but it is arguably more beloved now that time has passed and people come to appreciate its staying power. Also Odo is Mr. House. It's a fitting analogy, but not for the reasons you suggest. New Vegas is Deep Space 9, in that its different than what came before, intentionally, and while it's fans are appreciative, the collective fan base is more excited when the property goes back to the things they expect (4/JJ). NV and DS9 also have the "My brother/friend/etc told me he didn't like it, and liked that other one more, wtf" thing going on, too.
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Nov 16, 2015 00:24
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Leal posted:Fallout 4: They forced me to be a binary gender heterosexual breeder when I wanted my character to be genderfluid asexual, it ruined the entire experience for me and I will never play this game again You'd fit right in with the rest of the people on tumblr who make a career out of missing the point. Anyway, I've already decided to skip out on FO4 for the time being but the issue falls into the same place as to why I didn't care for Witcher 3 or Mass Effect 2. I don't really care to play someone already pretty well defined who talks on their own. Part of the joy of exploring a well crafted and large world is to be able to do that without too many strings attached. As it is, Shepard, please stop talking, you're saying stupid poo poo again, can't I just take my really cool ship and go to really cool planets instead of wading through lovely dialogue and "relationships"? Plus, if the world is really good, you actually get invested and invent your own character as you go along, but that tends to really only happen with exceptional titles.
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Nov 16, 2015 00:24
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:None of this matters one tiny iota because the actual thing dragging Fallout 4 down is that you can't pet your dog, or even tell him that he's a good boy. this should be the litmus test for every game that has a dog companion.
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Nov 16, 2015 00:28
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Leal posted:Fallout 4: They forced me to be a binary gender heterosexual breeder when I wanted my character to be genderfluid asexual, it ruined the entire experience for me and I will never play this game again What's great is you can't mod that out yet. There's certain story missions that uses data from both parents so the people who've been trying to force their spouse to be the opposite sex through console commands have massive crashes within minutes. It's great because it's a character that just dies in the first section of the game but can cause all the code to poo poo itself for the entirety of the game.
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Nov 16, 2015 00:28
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Croccers posted:But does the game really give a poo poo about your partner dying in the vault or not? People are whining about the married partner thing but I've seen no-one follow this up if it even matters and just comes down to pointless flavour that when cut you'd never notice. Almost like most of the outcry started from people that haven't even played the game Aside from a couple optional lines when you hunt down the dude who killed him, you could have removed your SO from the game and it would have been identical. Hell, you could replace Shaun with "your lucky hat," "your favorite coffee mug" or "your 32 page thesis about how RPGs can't have established player characters and must all be blank slate mutes to project power fantasies on" and the script would only need relatively minor rewrites.
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Nov 16, 2015 00:29
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Another thing dragging down FO4 is that they give you the power armor and a minigun super early. This means that they give enemies access to some heavy poo poo really early. I did a quest right near the starting town and the raiders were almost one shotting me and then one waltzes out from a room with a minigun of their own. It feels like they escalated the game too early, but only in one specific way(power armor+minigun which has limited ammo) so since I didn't want to use the power armor and my minigun was out of ammo, I was stick shooting these guys with a 10mm. while they were fire bombing me and spraying that minigun.
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Nov 16, 2015 00:33
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Horrible Smutbeast posted:What's great is you can't mod that out yet. There's certain story missions that uses data from both parents so the people who've been trying to force their spouse to be the opposite sex through console commands have massive crashes within minutes. It's great because it's a character that just dies in the first section of the game but can cause all the code to poo poo itself for the entirety of the game. http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/437/ Ask and ye shall receive yesterday.
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Nov 16, 2015 00:35
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Games are generally dragged down by forced motivation. Like, Fallout 3/4 both have this plot problem where it's like "yeah, so your dad/baby is gone and your wife is dead and you have to find them/find their killer" which might make sense to the protagonist but it doesn't work for the player because we never actually got to know any of them. It kinda reminds me of Watch_Dogs where you're trying to find the people who killed your niece, only you never knew that character so you have absolutely no reason to care. Contrast to New Vegas where you get shot in the face by a smug rear end in a top hat, so you absolutely want to find him.
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Nov 16, 2015 00:44
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Tweet Me Balls posted:Like, I know you all think you can complain about fallout 4, but if you think you can out-insufferable me regarding this fantastic and lovely game, let me just go ahead and cut you off at the pass with a Star Trek analogy. The second JJ Abrams Star Trek movie is loving terrible and a shade of it's source and so is this game. So I guess your analogy stands.
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Nov 16, 2015 00:54
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I'll never be able to wrap my head around the "Being told that a family member is missing/stolen fails to motivate me" opinion, especially when they'll turn around and say that New Vegas provides passable motivation despite the titular city being an unmemorable pile of debris and the dude who shot you being a petty tribal.
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Nov 16, 2015 00:58
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Ryoshi posted:Yeah Bro is cool and smart like every insufferable college sophomore ever. Weird thoughts.
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Nov 16, 2015 01:08
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MisterBibs posted:I'll never be able to wrap my head around the "Being told that a family member is missing/stolen fails to motivate me" opinion, especially when they'll turn around and say that New Vegas provides passable motivation despite the titular city being an unmemorable pile of debris and the dude who shot you being a petty tribal. Because you have 0 connection to the family you spend 3 minutes in-game with prior to their departure. Babies are lame af and nobody gives a poo poo about them, they have no personality. Unless you do the death run across radscorpions/deathclaws/cazadores by the time you get to Vegas you're motivated by any combination of the following: 1. revenge 2. finishing the job you were paid to do 3. taking over Vegas for yourself 4. serving House/Caesar/NCR/Brotherhood and you care about those things because that relationship is built up over the game versus just being thrust upon you. Also posted in the developer trolling thread, but relevant: bhlaab posted:The back story of Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas are incredibly general and based on circumstance. In the tradition of pen & paper rpgs you are a clean slate of a person thrown into a situation by an inciting incident and free to make up your mind about the specifics of your past and personality. 13Pandora13 has a new favorite as of 01:20 on Nov 16, 2015 |
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Nov 16, 2015 01:11
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MisterBibs posted:I'll never be able to wrap my head around the "Being told that a family member is missing/stolen fails to motivate me" opinion, especially when they'll turn around and say that New Vegas provides passable motivation despite the titular city being an unmemorable pile of debris and the dude who shot you being a petty tribal. New Vegas does a pretty good job of making it personal within a few seconds while also adding a mystery on top of that within a few minutes. And then builds upon that by surrounding the writing with a general of air of importance with how much stability and good can come about from the political situation surrounding New Vegas. I still think minimalist does it best though but then I like nice silent trips around places. Dark Souls' "You're a zombie in jail, go figure out why," was a nice change of pace. Nothing but curiosity driving that. It's kind of like getting a job. My driving motivation is to get paid, I'll worry about building loyalties to the company later.
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Nov 16, 2015 01:13
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Leal posted:Fallout 4: They forced me to be a binary gender heterosexual breeder when I wanted my character to be genderfluid asexual, it ruined the entire experience for me and I will never play this game again Deport The Irish posted:Aside from a couple optional lines when you hunt down the dude who killed him, you could have removed your SO from the game and it would have been identical. You two seem like you'd be a lot of fun at parties. Why have character creation or dialogue choices at all if the game has a character that it wants you to play? Just make 'em another short-haired white guy voiced by Nolan North, that tests well with the primary demographics. That way it can write all of the backstory for you and you don't need to put any effort in at all, just click on the heads until the mans fall down and your numbers get bigger.
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Nov 16, 2015 01:16
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The fact is that not everyone is going to be happy with either "you're a no-name prisoner that we've inexplicably pardoned and also you have to save the entire world" or "you're a married parent whose family got killed/taken who has entire world because of this/you're searching for your father in a reverse Taken scenario and you have to save the world/etc." and even something between the two isn't going to be a "happy" medium. edit: Somfin posted:You two seem like you'd be a lot of fun at parties. Having character creation and even voice options worked just fine in the Saints Row series, for example, where you don't even have dialogue choices and the character personality is pretty set in stone. It's a nice option, especially for those of us who are tired of having Grizzled White Guy Troy Baker/Nolan North Simulator #9478. les enfants Terrific! has a new favorite as of 01:22 on Nov 16, 2015 |
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Nov 16, 2015 01:18
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Somfin posted:Why have character creation or dialogue choices at all if the game has a character that it wants you to play? Just make 'em another short-haired white guy voiced by Nolan North, that tests well with the primary demographics. That way it can write all of the backstory for you and you don't need to put any effort in at all, just click on the heads until the mans fall down and your numbers get bigger. Phantom Pain had a character creator ten minutes into the game that meant gently caress all initially, but paid off at the very end. Also S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is better at giving you a "blank slate" character in a nuclear wasteland setting.
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Nov 16, 2015 01:26
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Thank god Fallout 4 came out so now people have a new thing to gripe about people bitching about now that everything that can be said about Quiet has been done now.
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Nov 16, 2015 01:32
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Somfin posted:You two seem like you'd be a lot of fun at parties. "Should we invite Chris to our party?" "Best not, he doesn't make up pretend stories about being a catgirl while playing 2011's GOTY Skyrim."
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Nov 16, 2015 01:34
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13Pandora13 posted:Because you have 0 connection to the family you spend 3 minutes in-game with prior to their departure. They are your character's family. That thing you, as a person, can empathize with losing and wanting to recover. 13Pandora13 posted:Babies are lame af and nobody gives a poo poo about them  13Pandora13 posted:by the time you get to Vegas you're motivated by any combination of the following: Not really, though? Even if you accept those things, they don't have the implicit weight of family. Especially since New Vegas is set after every significant threat has been removed from that area of the continent, undercutting any attempt to care about what happens. The West Coast already had its climax. 13Pandora13 posted:and you care about those things because that relationship is built up over the game versus just being thrust upon you. On the contrary: all of those are hamfisted attempts that pale in comparison to losing one of your family members. If you didn't get a water chip, your home and family would die. If you didn't get a GECK, your home and family would die. You need to find your missing dad. You need to find your son. Bit stronger than a flashy ruin populated by tribals. MisterBibs has a new favorite as of 01:38 on Nov 16, 2015 |
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Nov 16, 2015 01:35
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The fact that the kid's name is Shaun reminds me of Heavy Rain and being reminded of Heavy Rain is never a good thing. That is a thing dragging it down. Also the fact that I don't have a button to scream the kid's name with.
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Nov 16, 2015 01:38
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MisterBibs posted:They are your character's family. That thing you, as a person, can empathize with losing and wanting to recover. Come on. If someone introduces you to three babies, other than their physical characteristics are they discernible to you in any way at all? Outside of immediate family, babies are blank slates for a good year+. That's not goonsay, babies objectively have less personality than older children and adults. You can't give a poo poo about people you haven't given a chance to bond with. "I have a family in real life, so I can relate to this person's family!" is lazy as hell. To go back to the Star Trek analogy, it's losing red shirts versus losing Tasha Yar. You give a poo poo about your dad in FO3 because that relationship is built up. You interact to a common goal with him, you save him, there's an established character, you lose him. You don't have that at all with your boring spouse and more boring baby in 4. (edit) Let's say I accept that, since I am a person with real family members who is not a beep boop robot person, I empathize with the PC in FO4. If I accept that I am married, and have a baby I love a lot, and that is my sole motivation for everything in the game, I should give exactly zero fucks about anyone else in the world around me, building civilizations, etc. Because IRL if one of my family members was kidnapped or murdered and law/abilities were not an issue I'd just fuckin' rampage right through the guilty parties and anyone who dared to try to waste my time building fuckin' beds. It's a poorly executed motivation and way too severe. There's no room to grow to care. 13Pandora13 has a new favorite as of 01:48 on Nov 16, 2015 |
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Nov 16, 2015 01:40
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:The fact that the kid's name is Shaun reminds me of Heavy Rain and being reminded of Heavy Rain is never a good thing. That is a thing dragging it down. So really what you're upset about is that it didn't go all out.
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Nov 16, 2015 01:40
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Atasnaya Vaflja posted:The fact is that not everyone is going to be happy with either "you're a no-name prisoner that we've inexplicably pardoned and also you have to save the entire world" or "you're a married parent whose family got killed/taken who has entire world because of this/you're searching for your father in a reverse Taken scenario and you have to save the world/etc." and even something between the two isn't going to be a "happy" medium. The Saint's Row style of a 'voiced yet still largely player-avatar' protagonist is probably the best take on it I've seen, especially in 3 and 4 where the different voices do have clearly different character traits. Don't want to be the manic and brutal Troy Baker character? No biggie, Laura Bailey's Boss is a hateful bitch, 3's zombie voice is an eloquent gentleman (sort of), and 4's French woman is tired of all these stupid Americans yet isn't much better herself. It's the happiest medium I can think of, because one of those Boss voices is probably at least something close to the sort of Boss you want to play. But I think Saint's Row is about the biggest you could hope for that approach to work with. That's still six or seven different scripts and voice files to integrate in, and that just couldn't scale development-wise to something of Fallout's size. You do kinda have to take a side and do it carefully, and I honestly think Fallout 3 did a pretty good job on that, or at least a lot better than 4. There's a clear motivation and character for the people who want that sort of thing, but there's also ample ability to define your own character and toss out the game's 'intended' response to things. EDIT: I'm kind of interested in how much of Bethesda's team, and how much of the people who quite like the family angle, are either parents themselves or at a point where they're considering having a kid. That's just a wild theory of mine; that the people working on Fallout 4 are now on average the type of people this story speaks to, so they designed the character arc they would want to play. Cleretic has a new favorite as of 01:56 on Nov 16, 2015 |
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Nov 16, 2015 01:51
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MisterBibs posted:They are your character's family. That thing you, as a person, can empathize with losing and wanting to recover. See, you're mixing up me being able to empathize with a character and me valuing a character. That family holds no value to me as I've had no time to actually build up a connection to them. However, if a character has lost his or her family and is feeling grief over that, I can relate with that since I would too. However, these fucks are not my family and they didn't even bother taking the time to have me develop even the baseline of a relationship with them like my character did with dad in FO3.
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Nov 16, 2015 02:12
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MisterBibs posted:They are your character's family. That thing you, as a person, can empathize with losing and wanting to recover. I do not give a gently caress about a character they have not met, "family" or otherwise. If I don't share gameplay with that character, they are scenery and I literally cannot care. You can insist as hard as you want that this person means a lot to me, but there is a world of difference between being informed that I care about a character (at which point they become scenery with a taped on note reading THIS IS YOUR SON) and being encouraged to actually care about a character. I'm gonna bring up Undertale here because that was a game that did the blank-slate protagonist thing really well. Undertale spends the first fifteen minutes of its runtime introducing you, a child of unimportant age and gender, to a character named Toriel, who is given several tiny moments of sharp characterisation- she's motherly, caring, deliberate, generous, careful, kind, overly polite, and the most mechanically powerful monster in the region. An early section has her deciding to let you solve a puzzle on your own, then thinking better of it when she remembers that the puzzle has lethal spikes- she literally guides you through it by hand, with an expression of intense worry on her face the whole time. I gave a gently caress what happened to Toriel, because the game spent time getting me invested in her. When I had to move on, knowing that I would probably never see her again, it genuinely hurt. It did not take much time or effort to get me invested. Ramos posted:However, these fucks are not my family and they didn't even bother taking the time to have me develop even the baseline of a relationship with them like my character did with dad in FO3. Say what you want about Fallout 3, they put a lot of time and effort into making sure you would, at least, want to know what the hell your dad was up to. They didn't just show you a photo with "THIS IS YOUR DAD YOU CARE ABOUT HIM" taped to it and then assume you would agree. E: Silent Hill 2 managed to make me care about someone I hadn't met by making there be a large amount of mystery surrounding Mary- your wife, who died three years ago, just sent you a letter asking you to meet her. That's enough of a hook to draw me in, and keep me playing as I breadcrumb my way through the information I can find about her, myself, and the town. Somfin has a new favorite as of 02:29 on Nov 16, 2015 |
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Nov 16, 2015 02:25
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Seeing someone criticize the dead spouse, missing son plot as being impossible to care about while praising New Vegas's, in which a bunch of boring assholes you have no reason to care about fight over a territory you have no reason to care about, is tripping me out. Not to defend Fallout 4's plot because I kinda agree about the "no real reason to care" thing in theory even if I don't really have a problem with it in Fallout 4, but man, come on.
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Nov 16, 2015 02:40
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