|
So the Prometheus sequel is now called Alien: Convent. So what exactly was the point of not making Prometheus a full blown tie in rather than the weird in between it was?
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 04:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 10:11 |
|
|
Why not? Maybe Alien Convent will be a nunsploitation film. Anyways, we should go back to the point that Alien 3 is not an Alien movie. The simple reason for this: in the context of Alien 3, Aliens is reduced to a metaphorical story that Ripley passes on to the inmates. It becomes a variation on the 'war in heaven' from Paradise Lost. The opening credits are essentially an extended coda where Satan, having been defeated in Heaven, is cast down to Earth. The trick with Alien 3 is that it actually does take place on Earth, as the old teaser promised - since "Fury 161" is a straightforward allegorical representation of it. And what this means is that characters like the Dragon and Bishop II (who is presented as the literal Antichrist) intrude from a whole other plane of reality, not really seeming to fit. It's like having a stark drama about life in a mining town, and then Zeus shows up in the third act. Something is amiss. But the real question with Alien 3 is to what degree it teaches us the right lessons about the bible. It's commonly accepted that Ripley is a Christ figure who dies for our sins or whatever - but Christ figures are everywhere in cinema, and few are authentic. So it should be noted that Ripley kills herself to eliminate the alien Other - which is frankly not a Christlike thing to do at all. After all, Prometheus stresses that Christ is the alien - this pathetic excremental figure shat out by God. I'll cut to the chase here. Ripley is not Christ. She is The Woman Of The Apocalypse, a.k.a. Mary: "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; and she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems...." -Revelation 12:1-4 Put simply, Alien 3 is a blasphemous film where Mary, seeing the horrors that await humanity, aborts the fetal Christ and burns herself as well.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 06:45
|
|
|
Shimrra Jamaane posted:So the Prometheus sequel is now called Alien: Convent. Covenant
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 06:50
|
|
|
Covenant sounds better than Paradise Lost IMO.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 07:32
|
|
|
Xenomorph fans hate (the)Alien(s)(^3)=
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 07:40
|
|
|
I love Alien 3
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 07:46
|
|
|
Same
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 07:48
|
|
|
Doubtful
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 07:49
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Put simply, Alien 3 is a blasphemous film where Mary, seeing the horrors that await humanity, aborts the fetal Christ and burns herself as well. I made this argument earlier in the thread. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 08:00
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:I love Alien 3 Doubtful.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 08:18
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Why not? Maybe Alien Convent will be a nunsploitation film. When Christ says My God, My God, why have you forsaken me? is he bluffing or not? If he is in fact bluffingand by bluffing I mean that he is simply saying this aloud but secretly knows that he is Godthen the crucifixion is not serious. It is just a spectacle staged for humans. But if we take Christs statement seriously, then the implication is extremely radical. We must not forget that in Christian theology, Jesus Christ is not thought of in the same way as messiahs in other religions. Christ is not a representative of God; he is God. This means that God is radically split. A part of God doesnt know what God is doing. There is a kind of inconsistency in divinity itself, which is I think the crucial insight of Christianity. This is why I ask: how can we rejoin God? In other religions God is a simple transcendence: We are here in our sinful, terrestrial life, but if we purify ourselves, its possible for us to get closer to and be rejoined with God. In Christianity, when its said that the only way to God is through Christ, I think whats implied is precisely this Christ at the moment of doubt on the cross. This is why for Christianity you can, paradoxically, reach God only through this moment of doubt. As Chesterton put it, God himself becomes, for a moment, an atheist. The idea is as follows: We experience the utmost despair and alienation. We are here, God is there. We are totally abandoned by God. How then in authentic Christianity do we reach God? Not by somehow magically overcoming this gap but just by means of a shattering insight at the very point when we are abandoned by God. There we occupy the position of Christ. What was thought of only as alienation from God is the position of Christ himself: God abandoned by God. Slavoj Zizek, A Meditation on Michelangelos Christ on the Cross in Pauls New Moment: Continental Philosophy and the Future of Christian Theology, eds. John Milbank, Slavoj Zizek, and Creston Davis (Grand Rapids: Brazos Press, 2010), 174-175.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 08:19
|
|
|
Robotnik Nudes posted:Doubtful. I have an alien 3 toy
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 08:33
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:I have an alien 3 toy Stop incriminating yourself.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 08:58
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:I have an alien 3 toy
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 09:41
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:I've had this image of a person using the Alien like a suicide bomber. They would enter a public place, and have the Alien explode from them, which would slowly, but surely destroy whatever area they want. It's an image I'd love to see on film. It's hard to see new things if people keep wanting to tap into the old poo poo. A talented writer/director could probably craft something really great from that idea. It would play on a lot of fears that people already have and likely be the best shot of making the alien itself scary again, if they didn't gently caress it up and make something tasteless which would be tough given the themes it would have to tackle. The idea of people willingly impregnating themselves for the purpose of terrorist attacks like that is really creative though, there's so much you could do with that story. I think it would be great to see, especially if the film had a similar visual style to Blade Runner or Alien, using very industrial and dirty city locations rather than the slick and clean aesthetic that so many films today use. I think the only guy who could pull off the right look for it is Blomkamp, funnily enough.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 09:45
|
|
|
CelticPredator posted:Thanks! This would place the Alien as an allegory for islamic radicalism, which would make for some interesting discussion posts and probably a lot of drama. I'd be down.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 13:02
|
|
|
Yeah, the Alien literally emerging from 'within' the seeming normality of regular polite society is a pretty decent image.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 13:21
|
|
|
Speaking of chest busters has any comic/novel tried to explain how it goes from snake like creature to full on alien? Like is molting, grow little nub legs, or just "time passes, it happened, don't worry about it"?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 16:52
|
|
|
BexGu posted:Speaking of chest busters has any comic/novel tried to explain how it goes from snake like creature to full on alien? Like is molting, grow little nub legs, or just "time passes, it happened, don't worry about it"? There was a scripted scene in 'Alien' where, when hunting for the chestburster, Ripley, Brett, and Parker find that the Nostromo's food stores have been torn into and everything has been eaten.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 18:51
|
|
|
BexGu posted:Speaking of chest busters has any comic/novel tried to explain how it goes from snake like creature to full on alien? Like is molting, grow little nub legs, or just "time passes, it happened, don't worry about it"? They find molted alien skin in the original Alien.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 19:16
|
|
|
Now I kinda want to write a short film script about that idea. I could probably film it too. The Alien would be hard, I suppose. But maybe that's how you make it scary again. By not showing it at all?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 20:15
|
|
|
File the serial numbers off. Do it as a this-is-very-clearly-an-Alien-story, but with a different-looking monster you designed yourself that you could plausible make and isn't copyrighted. Sell it. Also now you owe me two percent
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 20:19
|
|
|
Robotnik Nudes posted:When Christ says My God, My God, why have you forsaken me? is he bluffing or not? If he is in fact bluffingand by bluffing I mean that he is simply saying this aloud but secretly knows that he is Godthen the crucifixion is not serious. It is just a spectacle staged for humans. But if we take Christs statement seriously, then the implication is extremely radical. We must not forget that in Christian theology, Jesus Christ is not thought of in the same way as messiahs in other religions. Christ is not a representative of God; he is God. This means that God is radically split. A part of God doesnt know what God is doing. There is a kind of inconsistency in divinity itself, which is I think the crucial insight of Christianity. This is why I ask: how can we rejoin God? In other religions God is a simple transcendence: We are here in our sinful, terrestrial life, but if we purify ourselves, its possible for us to get closer to and be rejoined with God. In Christianity, when its said that the only way to God is through Christ, I think whats implied is precisely this Christ at the moment of doubt on the cross. This is why for Christianity you can, paradoxically, reach God only through this moment of doubt. As Chesterton put it, God himself becomes, for a moment, an atheist. The idea is as follows: We experience the utmost despair and alienation. We are here, God is there. We are totally abandoned by God. How then in authentic Christianity do we reach God? Not by somehow magically overcoming this gap but just by means of a shattering insight at the very point when we are abandoned by God. There we occupy the position of Christ. What was thought of only as alienation from God is the position of Christ himself: God abandoned by God. Right, yes, but isn't Ripley killing herself precisely to purify herself and the world? The lyrics sung over Newt's and Hick's deaths are from the Agnus Dei - "Lamb of God, you who take away the sins of the world, grant us peace." When talking about Alien 3, it's helpful to look at other sci-fi adaptations of Revelation - like Elysium. Straight away, you can see the difference; Elysium ends with a host of angels flying down to Earth to enforce the Kingdom Of God, aka the dictatorship of the proletariat. The Terminator series has also begun moving towards the idea of a benevolent (version of) Skynet, reprogrammed to defend the poor, that may eventually defeat the evil capitalist version. In Alien 3, we get a gnostic version where the material universe is illusory, the product of the demiurge, and the correct solution is to reject all of flawed creation and embrace the nonmaterial. I'd say that (Ripley believes that) the queen-embryo/Christ is the embodiment of this demiurge and thus needs to be eliminated. In a very Heaven's Gate situation, where all the characters kill themselves because Planet Fury Is (literally) About To Be Recycled.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 20:20
|
|
|
Hbomberguy posted:File the serial numbers off. Do it as a this-is-very-clearly-an-Alien-story, but with a different-looking monster you designed yourself that you could plausible make and isn't copyrighted. Sell it. The other thing I'd like to try and make is a fan film that isn't fanwank for the fanboys. I've yet to see a fan film that isn't dipped in crummy injokes or stuff about "The lore". Also, if you want to help me write it, shoot me a PM. And you can have 10 percent. (Kinda serious about this. My irrational goal in life is to make an Alien movie)
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2015 20:24
|
|
|
BexGu posted:Speaking of chest busters has any comic/novel tried to explain how it goes from snake like creature to full on alien? Like is molting, grow little nub legs, or just "time passes, it happened, don't worry about it"? Have we ever gotten a look at the alien between its chestbuster phase and its adult form?
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 02:04
|
|
|
In Alien 3 we did. It just looks like a regular Alien, but a little goopier. It was during the scene when the guy falls into the fan.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 04:00
|
|
|
Xenomrph posted:Pretty much the latter. Wanna see the alien with dorito crumbs on its mouths
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 13:21
|
|
|
Shimrra Jamaane posted:So the Prometheus sequel is now called Alien: Convent. Everyone got around to read the script and instead of having another movie named after something unrelated they were able to convince Scott to change the name of the movie.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 20:19
|
|
|
I'm sure the studio was afraid of a backlash if Prometheus had the Alien name attached to it when the movie has no xenomorph in it. They learned from horror franchises like Halloween and Friday the 13th that once the audience decides they like something about a franchise, they want to see it in every movie. Too much creativity and out-of-the-box thinking will be punished by the audience. As it is there was still a backlash because the marketing for Prometheus played up the Alien connection in a way that just isn't there in the actual film. Now for this one they're just saying gently caress it, its an Alien movie deal with it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 20:50
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:I'm sure the studio was afraid of a backlash if Prometheus had the Alien name attached to it when the movie has no xenomorph in it. They learned from horror franchises like Halloween and Friday the 13th that once the audience decides they like something about a franchise, they want to see it in every movie. Too much creativity and out-of-the-box thinking will be punished by the audience. As it is there was still a backlash because the marketing for Prometheus played up the Alien connection in a way that just isn't there in the actual film. Now for this one they're just saying gently caress it, its an Alien movie deal with it. You know if he never said Prometheus had anything to do with alien and then in theaters it had all the references it would of been praised outside of all the plot holes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 20:55
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:I'm sure the studio was afraid of a backlash if Prometheus had the Alien name attached to it when the movie has no xenomorph in it. They learned from horror franchises like Halloween and Friday the 13th that once the audience decides they like something about a franchise, they want to see it in every movie. Too much creativity and out-of-the-box thinking will be punished by the audience. As it is there was still a backlash because the marketing for Prometheus played up the Alien connection in a way that just isn't there in the actual film. Now for this one they're just saying gently caress it, its an Alien movie deal with it. Prometheus did have a xenomorph in it though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 21:00
|
|
|
Steve2911 posted:Prometheus did have a xenomorph in it though. Just enough of it to piss off any fanboys who went to the theatre for some hot xeno action.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 21:00
|
|
|
Steve2911 posted:Prometheus did have a xenomorph in it though. It was in the credits scene, does that count?
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 21:13
|
|
|
Steve2911 posted:Prometheus did have a xenomorph in it though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 21:20
|
|
|
I hope the adult Deacon is in the sequel.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 21:23
|
|
|
Xenomrph posted:Aside from artwork on a mural, no it didn't. Its possible both you and Steve2911 are being pedantic in different ways. You're obviously making the point that the thing at the end isn't technically the same creature from the original Alien films, and Steve may have been alluding to the fact that xenomorph doesn't necessarily refer to any specific creature at all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 21:24
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:Its possible both you and Steve2911 are being pedantic in different ways. You're obviously making the point that the thing at the end isn't technically the same creature from the original Alien films, and Steve may have been alluding to the fact that xenomorph doesn't necessarily refer to any specific creature at all. Yeah sort of. At the very least it's a cousin to the same species. Bitching about Prometheus because it's not connected enough to Alien, when it gives you a new kind of xenomorph and how it's born, is just splitting hairs. The film could easily have been called Alien: Genesis or some poo poo and it would have made just as much sense. Changing branding between films is fairly idiotic though, and perfectly in keeping with Alien naming conventions.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 21:37
|
|
|
As someone who enjoys the first hour of Alien much more than the second hour, I'd have been fine with every Alien sequel being about a completely different "first contact with new form of life" scenario. All directed by Ridley Scott of course.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 21:59
|
|
|
Steve2911 posted:Yeah sort of. At the very least it's a cousin to the same species. Bitching about Prometheus because it's not connected enough to Alien, when it gives you a new kind of xenomorph and how it's born, is just splitting hairs.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 22:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 10:11 |
|
|
Basebf555 posted:As someone who enjoys the first hour of Alien much more than the second hour, I'd have been fine with every Alien sequel being about a completely different "first contact with new form of life" scenario. All directed by Ridley Scott of course. No I'm kidding. Just wanted to say that this is a super cool idea and is watch the poo poo out of it, if it was done in the style and tone of Alien. There's a bunch of different ways you could handle it, too.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2015 22:33
|
|