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So, as I'm considering getting back into SF for 5, after the arrival of a baby killed my options to use a stick (noise wakes baby, wifepocalypse happens) - If I'm going to be forced to become a pad player, what's the best option available?
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Nov 15, 2015 17:02
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 19:52 |
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http://www.play-asia.com/real-arcade-pro-v-silent-hayabusa-for-playstation-4-playstation/13/708n1d
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Nov 15, 2015 17:12
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Goodpart posted:Even then, a throw input is one motion. You're doing upwards of 5, 6 jabs at close range. Cleaner hitconfirms keep you at a good range AND lead to actual damage. Alright. So basically, don't assume that you'll be able to corner EASILY. You're going to have to put in work. But it's ultimately my goal, right? also, yes. I need much more patience.
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Nov 15, 2015 17:13
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Anyone you can corner easily as Ryu is either a) really bad or b) afraid of you. B usually stems from A, but until the opponent has a reason to fear you, they won't fear you. Hence the solid fundamental game. If every approach they make is rebuffed with an AA/a well-timed poke/a big punish, then they run out of options, and just start running away from you.
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Nov 15, 2015 17:30
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Goodpart posted:http://www.play-asia.com/real-arcade-pro-v-silent-hayabusa-for-playstation-4-playstation/13/708n1d I own this stick. It is fantastic and the best product on the market.
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Nov 15, 2015 18:01
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Do you have any issues with dropped inputs? Specifically cardinal directions? On sufficiently quick inputs I often lose the down input in, say, a half circle.
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Nov 15, 2015 18:08
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Goodpart posted:- Stop mashing jab when you get close and learn some basic hitconfirms. crLK crLP crMP xx fireball for instance. You need to be pretty close at the start of this for the MP to connect right? Also very basic, but what's the backup plan for hitconfirm strings like this when they block? Tick throw or backstep a potential reversal?
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Nov 15, 2015 21:01
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Booyah- posted:You need to be pretty close at the start of this for the MP to connect right? Also very basic, but what's the backup plan for hitconfirm strings like this when they block? Tick throw or backstep a potential reversal? Depends on how they're responding to your blockstrings. If they're trying to mash reversal, just block. You can hitconfirm from the two lights and go for a throw or a frametrap too (cr.lk cr.lp walk forward a bit cr. mp?) if they're blocking/delayed crouchteching. I like to go for a throw immediately to see if they're crouchteching, and then move on from there. This is an okay primer on frametraps overall, which is basically what you should be doing to open players up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w16aeYJuRxw
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Nov 15, 2015 21:29
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Your "bread and butter" option after a rando blocks your point-blank Ryu cr.LK cr.LP is to take a tiny step back, take that tiny step back in and kara throw with st.HK. Generally this beats stand tech/crouch tech as well as down-back and baits reversals for a full punish. Your other options should come after the other player shows how they respond to this situation.
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Nov 15, 2015 22:15
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Goodpart posted:http://www.play-asia.com/real-arcade-pro-v-silent-hayabusa-for-playstation-4-playstation/13/708n1d Is it THAT good? Every time someone tries to sell me on a Silent whatever, it seems to be 'still microswitchy/clicky to hell, just muffled'. You're not the first person to suggest it, so I'm starting to become intrigued.
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Nov 15, 2015 22:40
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you still hear it, it's just a lot less clicky
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Nov 15, 2015 23:42
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Shockeh posted:So, as I'm considering getting back into SF for 5, after the arrival of a baby killed my options to use a stick (noise wakes baby, wifepocalypse happens) - If I'm going to be forced to become a pad player, what's the best option available? They make hella silent sticks and buttons of you can handle really easy modding
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Nov 16, 2015 00:36
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Anyone on the east coast wanna play some matches? http://steamcommunity.com/id/lljkkrion/ Haven't played in a few months but I'm not terrible.
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Nov 16, 2015 00:38
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Shockeh posted:Is it THAT good? Every time someone tries to sell me on a Silent whatever, it seems to be 'still microswitchy/clicky to hell, just muffled'. You're not the first person to suggest it, so I'm starting to become intrigued.
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Nov 16, 2015 04:33
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Goodpart posted:Do you have any issues with dropped inputs? Specifically cardinal directions? On sufficiently quick inputs I often lose the down input in, say, a half circle. No I do not. I can do all of my BnBs in various games, including Ultimax which is a faster game.
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Nov 16, 2015 04:39
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Okay, it may be my particular stick then. I can't hit rekkas cleanly with Fei if I ever hit down-back in the motion because it completely misses the down motion. I can only replicate it by whipping the stick from one down diagonal to the other really quickly, but it happens all the time. Not to say that it's not a super nice stick: I'm just having issues with mine and Hori aren't very good about responding to customer inquiries.
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Nov 16, 2015 05:25
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Yeah I just went to go work some rekkas out. No issues.
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Nov 16, 2015 05:30
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Speaking of dropped inputs, for whatever reason when I try a quarter circle forward or back with Hugo I just get the normal instead of, say, a clap or lariat. And yet with Cody or any other character I can do them in my sleep. Is there some sort of input trick for that? I can only seem to clap/lariat if I properly release in a cardinal direction.
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Nov 16, 2015 05:47
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Jueg01 posted:Speaking of dropped inputs, for whatever reason when I try a quarter circle forward or back with Hugo I just get the normal instead of, say, a clap or lariat. Hugo's inputs are weirdly picky. For example, Gief can do a spinning piledriver with F, DF, D, DB, B, UB + P. Hugo needs all of that plus a neutral up input. Gief can also SPD off of any four cardinal inputs (U, D, B, F) in any order with a punch button, handy for keyboard and Hitbox users. That shortcut isn't available to Hugo either. Why? 
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Nov 16, 2015 05:58
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TheManSeries posted:Yeah I just went to go work some rekkas out. No issues. Hold the stick in down/back or down/forward and then wiggle the stick back and forth like you're doing a DP shortcut (except super quickly), and take a look at the inputs for me. Does it always read DB D DF D DB D DF? Or are there a few DB DF DB DF in there? I'm dropping rekkas because when I lead from a DB input (which I do often since I'm often crouch jabbing into them) I skip over the cardinals. I tested it with a Razer stick and also a Hori V4 and never had such issues. I can't explain it and nobody has the stick, so I can't really compare notes. It's nice that someone else has one.  Also, Hugo's weird inputs are a result of complaints about the exact opposite: that the inputs were too loose and the shortcuts bled into each other. They gave him very specific input fixes in the most recent balance patch to address it.
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Nov 16, 2015 07:30
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I fought at least 80-90 fights tonight. These were the two best ones. Abel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy_TPe8tUlg Decapre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vCOkWGHGq0 Notes: Struggling to pull out ultra 1 on command sometimes. In the Decapre fight I wanted to ultra when they got in my space, and did a regular fb. Not too used to using all three buttons at the same time for an Ultra. I've been using shortcuts my entire life for Supers. I'll get it. Put my footsie game practice to the test. Fought someone and we traded blows for over 60 fights. I lost every single one. We worked on footsies and spacing with Chun Li. We worked on be aware of your opponents Ultra and not fb'ing during that time period if they have an Ultra that goes screen wide like Chun or Decap's. We practiced restraint. He is an amazing teacher and we had a lot of great fights. I fought Lenin's Abel. I had been having trouble with his Abel. It's a bad match up as Poison. I managed to beat him. It took A LOT of effort. Again, I hosed up on my U1. There's a point where I could get take him out with an Ultra after he whiffs, but a regular one came out. Still won, but it was really, really close. I'm getting better and nothing stops this train. Feel like I've improved more in one weekend than the entirety of two months, it's insane.
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Nov 17, 2015 09:50
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Respect on the sheer number of fights you're having. It's nice to see someone genuinely wanting to get better Some things to note: - "don't throw fireballs when X has ultra" is a good blanket rule that you should follow, most of the time. But if you watch match videos of top players, they are still able to slip fireballs into their core game despite ultras like Abel's and Decapre's being a threat. How? By constantly moving and faking out fireballs as much as they throw them. Very few people (and virtually noone at a beginner/intermediate level) will reaction ultra a fireball. It is in many ways an educated guess. Fake the opponent out with lots of empty quarter circle motions, and perhaps a qcf+LK to give the impression that you COULD throw a fireball at any time. Likely scenario is that you're now able to continue playing your zoning game. Best case scenario, you bait an ultra and get a free punish. - You are in that stage of footsies where you're willing to throw normals, but you're not yet incorporating movement. Watch how many times Decapre pushes you to the corner, wherein you'll then just plant yourself and throw out buttons. Look at Decapre's response: constant walking in and out of poke range and tagging you with stray buttons. Fighting from the corner is tough, but if you're making no genuine attempt to escape, your opponent can just keep doing that forever (and they kinda do). You jump out at 1:23 or so but if the opponent were less inclined to play a very predictable footsies game, they could have hit a pretty easy AA into more damage. The followup combo was nice, btw. - I dunno which fireball was meant to be ultra (maybe the one at 45 secs?), but it's for the best that it never happened. I didn't see an opening for ultra all game and it would have been a dumb hail mary. If it's the one I think it was, Decapre hit no buttons and was just walking. You would have died. - Like Ryu, learn Poison's best buttons. crLK and crHP are GOOD, but not as pokes; mostly combo starters/cancels. crMK and stMK are godlike in neutral, with stHP and crMP also having good utility. - If you ever hit AA fireballs, you can follow up with stuff afterwards. stHP is the usual go-to but you can hit any attack she has up to and including ultra depending on how much time you have.
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Nov 17, 2015 10:43
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Bind a button to 3p and 3k if you can, especially on a pad. In both matches you let them walk you into the corner or happily walked into the corner yourself and while your opponents didn't make use of this for the most part, every single round should've gone the same way as the second round against Lenin, where you lost most of your life stuck in the corner. You press a button nearly every time you wake up, this is a bad idea even though you mostly went unpunished. I think the only grounded AA I saw was a ex dp when Lenin tried to cross you up on your wakeup. People are just going to jump in on you over and over again unless you show them that they're going to eat a punish every single time.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:00
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You're putting in time and you're getting better, but you still need to work on some fundamentals. Goodpart parted with some good advice (hehehe), but I'd like to add a couple of things: - You have a pretty bad habit of jumping back on neutral situations when you feel threatened (usually following them jumping in on you). Stand your ground! Both against the Abel and the Decapre, if you kept your calm and stood still, you could've gotten some good damage off anti-airs (Poison can use cr.HP as a catch-all, even if the hitbox is a bit...weird). Also, you need to focus on anti-airing more, the Decapre you played telegraphed jump-ins all match long and the only time you anti-aired was when you won the second round. It's fine if you eat a jump-in or two because you didn't see it coming (the Abel picked some pretty good moments to jump on you, for example), but in that case both of you were standing still and Decapre jumped from a terrible range every time. - Poison is great because she has stupid safe pressure off a knockdown. You would benefit from taking a step back after a throw/WoL knockdown and throwing her HP Fireball as a meaty attack (hit them when they're getting up, basically). It gives you awesome frame advantage, catches plenty of reversals and leads to overhead/low/throw guessing games. I see you already caught wind of Poison's little reset after EX WoL (jump after the launch, hit them on the air, do shenanigans), meaty HP Fireball is the other vital offensive tool she has, and it's VERY good against unexperienced players/mashers.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:28
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I think me pulling off a U1 against Decap was another fight. My bad. Wrong fight. I struggle with holding my ground because they're both characters that are getting in your face and loving your poo poo. Both characters have moves that put at a disadvantage. Abel has his roll. Most Abel players start out a fight against Poison with a roll. I countered Lenin's with a throw in our first fight and he never started a match with it again because he knew I was expecting it and would punish it severely. But that doesn't stop the fact that I don't want Abel in my space, but NEED to use fb's to keep him out of it. I guess this is why pokes are an Inportant part of the game plan. Decapra, same thing. These guys go full on offensive pressure and I don't know how to hold my ground besides trying to go back. I start the Decap fight with some solid tootsies and I can predict he's going to use that loving slide most times, but it's tough. I do press buttons on wake up. I don't know what to do besides press buttons against sub offensive characters. I know about hitting ST HP after an fb. It owns especially against Hugo's. My friend and I are going to keep fighting and getting fundamentals. Everyone is helping out and being supportive and competitive without a hint of condensation. Five stars to the SF community.
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Nov 17, 2015 12:05
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A long while back
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Nov 17, 2015 13:27
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That's the thing about rushdown characters. If you afford them the space they want, they get it for free, and gain all the advantages that go with it. At least if you fight for it, they have to work for it, and may take a good chunk of damage in the process. I play Poison so I understand that it's difficult, but that's where your neutral game has to be strong. Abel and Decapre DO have lots of ways around your stuff, but if it were that lopsided, then there'd be no reason to pick Poison ever. Mix up your fireball strengths, fake out a few, and use those mid range pokes effectively. Take every advantage you can and make sure that you're cognisant of where you are in the stage: if you're close to the corner, you want to throw them into it, or cross up. If they're close, you don't want to switch sides, and they're probably trying to. So keep them there and let them take dumb risks to get out! Waking up is scary but way less so in Ultra due to delayed wakeup. It's simply a matter of making an educated guess as to what the opponent is going to try and countering it. To know that, you need to know the opponent's options. That's just trial and error and you're going to lose a lot in the process. No easy way around it. OS tech is really important so learn that if you haven't already, and backdashing isn't a bad idea once in a while. Failing all of the above, just block and wait your turn. If you press buttons on wakeup and I know it, I'm hitting a meaty every single time, and I'm getting counterhits into more knockdowns. Don't let that happen to yourself.
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Nov 17, 2015 13:28
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Today's homework is to go to the lab and repeat the scenarios that allowed them to get into my space and learn how to counter it. gently caress off, mix up characters!!! I'm also going to watch replays of our Decapra friend's movement to learn how to do good spacing and footsies.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:06
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e: video down, will upload and repost
WorldIndustries fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 19:43
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Himuro posted:I fought at least 80-90 fights tonight. These were the two best ones. haha. I need to work on my abel. I dropped so much stuff. we can play again whenever you want. This week im working afternoonshift. so I dont get home until like 1am. I think I said it yesterday, But I feel like something you need to work on is hitconfirms and combos im not saying you need to be the master of 1frame links or anything. But alot of the times you could be canceling into a special on stray hits, or sometimes you land a jab jab but then dont go into anything else after. also what are you using to record these matches?
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Nov 17, 2015 19:52
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Here's a video of me getting bodied by Fei Long: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHQCQVu_HTA I see lot's of problems with my play, but the most obvious to me is TONS of unsafe sweeps. That seems like my default bad-habit, and it was punished a lot by reaction specials or preemptive focus attack. For the most part my defense was okay, but since I didn't know how to break his defense I defaulted to lots of unsafe moves that got punished. The other thing I noticed were moments where we were both crouching next to each in throw range for a half second, and neither of us went for it. I should really be trying to throw in these situations but don't have a good feeling for when to throw yet. Can anyone point out what moves to work on when my offense isn't getting through? Right now I'm trying to build from the ground up so haven't internalized my hit confirm combos yet. LeninVS posted:also what are you using to record these matches? I think we're both using the upload to youtube feature in steam USFIV
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Nov 17, 2015 20:03
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Booyah the video is set to private.LeninVS posted:haha. I need to work on my abel. I dropped so much stuff. Just the SFIV replay youtube uploader. I have my youtube account attached and upload it straight from SFIV. Set it to low quality in the options because otherwise the video may lag. It's true I have trouble with combos. I practiced my rekka a lot in training mode yesterday. I can hit my rekka much more consistently now, as well as hit confirms. Hit confirming is tough. It's not that I'm not practicing it. I'm getting better, but it's still hard to get used to. Same with my rekka. I just need more experience and practice to drill them both into my head. As for combos, I practiced them in the lab but my main priority were footsies and spacing. That's how I could hit the Decapre with that standing HK. Because I have been practicing that exact scenario. So I realize it's a weakness for sure. I'm going back to basics today and work on Poison's cr mk. I got it in my head somehow that her cr mk wasn't as good as Ryu's for some reason after playing him for a solid month. I definitely need to work on my linking. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 20:07
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Himuro posted:Booyah the video is set to private. Thanks
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Nov 17, 2015 20:10
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Booyah you cracked the top 10k Ryu's. Congrats. In the first round, your offense was fine. Remember Ryu has a lot of ways to tackle someone getting into his face. Try a standing HK or standing HP and remember standing MK. The sweep move is making you vulnerable because of the low speed. Also, try throwing when he's blocking so much.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:24
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Booyah- posted:Here's a video of me getting bodied by Fei Long: So long as your AA is solid Fei isn't hard for Ryu to deal with since he's a linear character without any movement gimmicks. But you let Fei jump for free several times. Like I said to Himuro, fake out the fireballs and bait out a jump or EX CW, then DP what comes. Fei only gets in through dominance in the ground game if he can't jump, so just cut off his two obvious approaches and you're good. Stand outside Fei's light rekka range and counterpoke with sweeps and crMK xx fireball. There were several whiffed rekkas you did nothing about. Meanwhile, that Fei is not good but the one thing he does well is space his normals near the tip. You're trying to counterpoke with crHP and he's hitting long normals that harass you all match. You can compete with him in range. You have crMK, so use it. In this particular matchup, jabs are also really good for stopping rekkas as they're a low-risk option that likely won't be whiff punished. Once you frustrate Fei out of using rekkas as an approach, he has to resort to patient footsies or jumping/EXCW, and you already know how to deal with those. He also has mid-range MKCW, but that puts him at -2. You get a free button unless he's an idiot and decides to go for a big DP. Light is -4 so try to identify the difference and just DP him on the punish. You couldn't break his defense because you never did anything that would test it. You hit a few sweeps, so try for a safejump into more pressure, or a crossup into a big combo, or even incorporate throws and reset the oki game. Once you've got that life lead, then you can hang back and play safe if you want. Fei has poor comeback potential against strong defensive play, so you're entitled to chill out if you want. Against better Feis, you will need to learn the ranges of your AAs. Fei jHK is ridiculously good for fireball punishes and leads to rekkas. Good Feis will jump at a range that is ambiguous and will make DPs whiff if there's no limb stuck out. Learn to utilise stHK as well as DP/crHP and you'll basically cut off all of Fei's easy approaches. Easier said than done, but doable. Goodpart fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 20:43
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gently caress YOU, SETH. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=innH3m66FZc I'm fighting Jebeebus' Seth here. Yes, I know I hit confirm on the rekka. No, at the time I didn't care. If my head were fully in the game, I feel like I could have beaten him. I made a lot of stupid calls. I'll get you eventually.
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Nov 18, 2015 09:35
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that lack of voice audio is trippin me out man good job on improving, before i used to just jump and punish so many of your predictable fireballs i'd be careful about throwing out her love me tender move so willy nilly though jebeebus fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 09:40
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Booyah- posted:Here's a video of me getting bodied by Fei Long: Since you are kind of defensive at your level one aspect to consider about your play is that you are playing to get grinded out imo. You force no mistakes from Fei Long but he punishes yours. A thing you will always see in Street Fighter at many levels of play is a player who is wildly unpredictable but can also stop hitting buttons or doing things when necessary has a much wider skill range when matching up with people than the guy who is text book slow playing everything. You might beat someone a bit worse than you very consistently but someone better will also always beat you, its incredibly honest. If you took this same Fei Long and instead of down-backing and hitting sweep whenever he enters your general zone you just jumped at him with hard punch(Don't use medium kick unless you are crossing up) over and over and tried to confirm a big combo you would probably have more success. Not saying this is a long term way to go, but more that you have to realize you are respecting his ability to anti-air and his ability to handle jab/throw/string pressure. In this particular match your biggest flaw given not changing up the gameplay style was not punishing 2nd hits of rekka. You can just mash HP dragon punch or try to do c.lp, c.mp(or hp) x tatsu if its point blank blocked. I'm going to assume your technical ability is kinda low due to the very out of place c.hp's and reliance on sweep but if you really want to take your cautious and slow style to the next level you need to do the following things: Instead of max range sweeps when someone approaches your zone or has shallow jumped at you, throw a fireball. If they seem focus happy throw an EX Fireball. Crouch mk x fireball more until you are shown they will focus the FB or mash an invincible move thru it. Get used to resetting the spacing with a jump back or backdash then going back to trying to safely throw a fireball, this stops people from gaming your patterns and movement and is honestly one of the hardest things to really master in the game. But the idea is that when you have space to move backwards you will use it to force errors like jumps, walking into fireballs or erroneous special moves from them for "free" damage. It is the fundamental of zoning in Street Fighter as no one can perfectly work around a fireball character in a neutral situation without guessing with a jump. A final note on sweep: Sure it seems awesome its very long range on a character without any other long range moves. The problem is that it is incredibly unsafe, doesn't do a ton of damage. If you land a sweep the key to its use in SF4 is that you can safely mixup the other character. These range from incredibly simple to very technical, but by not doing anything off your connected sweeps you are giving up a lot of potential damage and you will need to put a little time and effort into making sure you start to do that. ALSO since you use it a lot, think about trying other characters. Ryu is pretty limited in 4, sure he's a jack of all trades but he is kind of advanced, you will be surprised how well you can do taking your skill of hitting a long range button whnever someone walks into its field to another character.
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Nov 18, 2015 11:49
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Himuro posted:How the gently caress do you defend against an El Fuerte who likes spamming that loving cross up move with Poison? Felt like the only weapon in my arsenal was my fb. In midscreen, jumpback heavy Kick will eat splash alive. On wakeup it can work as a read as well, even if you guess wrong, unless he timed it perfectly you'll get reset to standing. Poisons skinny hurtbox definitely works to your advantage at certain ranges you can just walk forward and a crossup splash will whiff, allowing you to raw ultra or anything else for a punish
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Nov 18, 2015 12:30
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Shockeh posted:So, as I'm considering getting back into SF for 5, after the arrival of a baby killed my options to use a stick (noise wakes baby, wifepocalypse happens) - If I'm going to be forced to become a pad player, what's the best option available? You could go the silent stick/silent buttons approach. Though the stick is kinda pricey and it requires some (easy) modding.
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Nov 18, 2015 12:36
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