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Nolanar posted:This, except he took it from the Cato Institute.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:29
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Flip Yr Wig posted:Ooh, ooh, ooh, you forgot the best one. Many of the Sov-Cit gurus claim that the Social Security Act established a secret multi-billion dollar fund for each citizen that the government cashes in on once you die, and you can make withdrawals from it if you know the secret password. You might need to transfer it from your "legal person" to your "natural person," but it probably varies from scam to scam. I'm also a fan of the closely-related "A4V" scheme, wherein when a sovcit receives, say, a $300 bill from his insurance company, they stamp "ACCEPTED FOR VALUE" on it, which magically transforms it from a bill to a check. Often they will then stamp "RETURNED FOR VALUE" on it and send it back to the entity that billed them.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:47
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loving lol at Jrod trying to pretend Hong King doesn't have massive poverty problems. Nearly 20% of all people there live below the poverty line. But they aren't literally starving to death in the streets, so they can conveniently be ignored.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:21
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Who What Now posted:loving lol at Jrod trying to pretend Hong King doesn't have massive poverty problems. Nearly 20% of all people there live below the poverty line. But they aren't literally starving to death in the streets, so they can conveniently be ignored. The government owns almost all the housing too. Truly a free market when the basics of life such as food, water, medical care and housing are all heavily managed by the government.
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Nov 17, 2015 22:51
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GunnerJ posted:It isn't even just that it's out there and ridiculous because it's not an incidental detail or accident or whatever. His reckoning of "economic freedom" (or the one he accepted as authoritative) does not take into account whether a nation's economy employs slave labor. If this is what libertarian understandings of economic freedom can overlook, they are garbage. He has to account for that if he wants anyone to take "economic freedom" seriously. He'll just say that libertarians don't support slavery even though he pointed at a bunch of slave states as being aspirational. Those places only have slaves because of their respective states, after all. He'll suggest that slavery is impossible in a stateless society, you can only have consensual contractual agreements and no one in libertopia would ever use force to enslave someone else
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Nov 18, 2015 01:55
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QuarkJets posted:He'll just say that libertarians don't support slavery even though he pointed at a bunch of slave states as being aspirational. Those places only have slaves because of their respective states, after all. He'll suggest that slavery is impossible in a stateless society, you can only have consensual contractual agreements and no one in libertopia would ever use force to enslave someone else Also he'll cite Walter Block who supports slavery.
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Nov 18, 2015 03:03
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Disinterested posted:Also he'll cite Walter Block who supports slavery. And also secession wasn't, and isn't, about slavery and white supremacy at all why would you think that.
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Nov 18, 2015 03:52
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Disinterested posted:Also he'll cite Walter Block who supports slavery. Walter Block doesn't actually support anything, you'll find. He's Just Saying.
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Nov 18, 2015 05:30
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Why should we care about property rights? Because when you own enough people, you can force them to build this kickass skyscraper! 
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Nov 18, 2015 10:36
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Caros posted:The government owns almost all the housing too. Truly a free market when the basics of life such as food, water, medical care and housing are all heavily managed by the government. I mean, hilariously, it's true, economic freedom comes from the necessities being provided not from rent seeking and no taxation. That's def not why he used it as an example though
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Nov 18, 2015 13:36
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It's almost like economic freedom for some is not economic freedom for others in an unequal economy. The economic freedom jrod means is about getting the government off your boss's back so he can climb onto yours, for example.
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Nov 18, 2015 14:46
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jrodefeld posted:Cato puts out a yearly report where they rank the countries of the world according to their "economic freedom", i.e. correlation of policies with libertarian ideology. This year, the United States ranks 16th. Hong Kong is now a country independent of China, so sayeth the great Cato Institute. Edit: where in the gently caress is number 6? Twerkteam Pizza fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 16:11
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Being alive is an initiation of force against you every day. Your body extorts you for food and shelter on pain of death. How can libertopia protect your from this malicious predation?
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Nov 18, 2015 16:11
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Really, when you think about it, NOT letting people sell themselves into slavery is the true tyranny.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:16
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There are a lot of folks in debt in this country and they should be allowed to choose to sell their daughters to the banks that hold their debts but BIG GOVERNMENT keeps getting in the way of the market.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:18
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EndOfTheWorld posted:Really, when you think about it, NOT letting people sell themselves into slavery is the true tyranny. Not that I think people should own slaves morally, but here's why the South was completely in the right. Slavery is wrong, but obviously it's better to have slavery than have to pay the tyrannical US income tax (but the Confederacy's income tax and conscription are just fine with me, somehow)
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Nov 18, 2015 16:27
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VitalSigns posted:Not that I think people should own slaves morally, but here's why the South was completely in the right. Slavery is wrong, but obviously it's better to have slavery than have to pay the tyrannical US income tax (but the Confederacy's income tax and conscription are just fine with me, somehow) But, you see, slavery was on its way out naturally anyway. Literally seconds away from being abolished, had the mean federal government not started its War of Northern Aggression. Furthermore *unending fart sounds*
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Nov 18, 2015 16:31
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As an anarchist, I am very invested in the creation of this new state. The goal of anarchy is, after all, to create nation-states dedicated to the preservation of slavery.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:31
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Twerkteam Pizza posted:Hong Kong is now a country independent of China, so sayeth the great Cato Institute. Mauritius is a little island in the Indian Ocean. They're a parliamentary democracy without much in the way of human rights abuses as best as I can tell. Looks like a beautiful place too, if google images are to be believed. It's on the list because it's a tax haven 
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Nov 18, 2015 16:36
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As long as my taxes go to finance the armed forces enforcing the institution of slavery, and not to baby formula for some welfare queen.
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Nov 18, 2015 16:37
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EndOfTheWorld posted:There are a lot of folks in debt in this country and they should be allowed to choose to sell their daughters to the banks that hold their debts but BIG GOVERNMENT keeps getting in the way of the market. Well the Bible says selling your daughters is OK so it must be. I can't wait for Libertopia so I can be a multibillionaire, buy dozens of daughters, and force them to marry me. BECAUSE FREEDOM!!!
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Nov 18, 2015 16:39
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VitalSigns posted:As long as my taxes go to finance the armed forces enforcing the institution of slavery, and not to baby formula for some welfare queen. My friend's cousin's uncle's roommate's friend is a BLACK woman and when she went to get her welfare check they told her to kick her curb to the man and get a new babydaddy in order to get more welfare but she said no because she is One Of The Good Ones. Not let me explain how welfare destroyed the black community and made them into slaves again because without the threat of starvation their natural laziness prevents them from getting jobs and what, no, that isn't racist stop calling me racist!
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Nov 18, 2015 16:47
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Who What Now posted:But, you see, slavery was on its way out naturally anyway. Literally seconds away from being abolished, had the mean federal government not started its War of Northern Aggression. Furthermore *unending fart sounds*
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Nov 18, 2015 16:53
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Nolanar posted:Mauritius is a little island in the Indian Ocean. They're a parliamentary democracy without much in the way of human rights abuses as best as I can tell. Looks like a beautiful place too, if google images are to be believed.
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Nov 18, 2015 17:00
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Halloween Jack posted:My best guess is that the Cato Institute defines "economic freedom" here as "big corporations are unopposed except by each other." As opposed to, say, some utopia where the technocratic innovator and the Jeffersonian citizen farmer work hand-in-hand. You're mostly right, but they don't have much of a problem with your second scenario as both of those are more or less code words for "well-off white dudes" in libertarian-speak.
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Nov 18, 2015 17:02
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Well, libertarianism seems to appeal to frustrated middle-class white dudes who were told they'd be guaranteed an upper-middle-class lifestyle by virtue of their accident of birth. And it promises them that in the future everyone (that matters) will get that affluent lifestyle thanks to voodoo economics. It's a quasi-religious appeal to a very shallow concept of the American Dream.
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Nov 18, 2015 17:48
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Halloween Jack posted:My best guess is that the Cato Institute defines "economic freedom" here as "big corporations are unopposed except by each other." As opposed to, say, some utopia where the technocratic innovator and the Jeffersonian citizen farmer work hand-in-hand. There was an actual explanation for the metrics they used and most of them were "we made poo poo up" when summarized. One of them was literally how low corporate taxes were. I think there was also another tied to how low income taxes were. Another profoundly stupid one was based on a lack of economic laws. They sincerely, genuinely believe that all regulations are bad and less regulation = more freedom. Completely ignoring that certain regulations (well, most of them really) were put in place to prevent the rich from practicing economic fuckery to deliberately screw over everybody else. They treat "freedom" as a thing you're supposed to buy, basically. I, as a poor man, do not have access to the same resources and avenues to profit as a rich man. Ergo, I am less economically free. I do not have parents I can borrow $1,000,000 from to start a business so I have more restrictions put on what I can and can't do than a person born into wealth. I just can't afford to make risky investments or take the potential risks in starting a business. I don't have much of a choice but to sell my time to somebody wealthier than I who will take part of my productivity and keep it for himself. But we need to make slavery legal, abolish minimum wage, return to pay in company scrip, and let the rich do whatever they want BECAUSE FREEDOM.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:08
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Well the Bible says selling your daughters is OK so it must be. I can't wait for Libertopia so I can be a multibillionaire, buy dozens of daughters, and force them to marry me. Nuh-uh. You can't do that because marriage is a function of the State, secret statist! ...you'll just have to put clauses in the contracts with their parents that you can do whatever you want with the kids.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:52
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Whenever I see the Cato Institute mentioned, what immediately comes to mind is Cato the Elder's statement that you shouldn't hesitate to sell off your old and sickly slaves.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:02
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I have some time to post again since my life has gotten less hectic. I recall the invitation that Caros made to do a formal debate with me. That is appealing to me on several levels. My only hesitation has nothing to do with me not being convinced of the correctness of my position or in my ability to articulate and defend my views. Rather, my hesitation has more to do with putting myself on the internet on a video. I don't own a webcam and if, or when, I make the decision to promote myself through video I want to be sure I am comfortable with that decision and that the comments I make are fit to be preserved for eternity on the web. That is just a line I have not yet crossed. I've been told I am very good looking by more than a few women so no problems there. Nor am I afraid of public speaking. I simply have a certain level of propriety and desire for privacy and that is why I'd prefer not to do any sort of video chat/debate at this time. However, I would be absolutely happy to do a written debate with one, or a small handful, of the serious members of this forum. Caros and Cemetary Gator come to mind, since they are two of the most substantive posters on this site. These threads get unwieldy quickly and even when I intend to only respond to specific posters, I get distracted my inane or inflammatory substance-free replies and feel like responded to everyone. I don't know if or how this could be set up, but I would gladly debate Caros or Cemetary Gator (or another member) in a written debate while the other members watched and commented on another thread perhaps. That way we could go point by point and a discussion could proceed in a focused manner. This is just an idea I am throwing out there. I engage in these sorts of discussions because I am very passionate about these ideas and I think that the act of debate is a great exercise in subjected ideas to scrutiny. And, for the record, I am not as arrogant or condescending as I sometimes come across. I don't know the answers to every objection that is raised. I feel I have read enough in depth to anticipate most objections to the free society and how to respond but there are occasions where I am confronted with an objection that I am unprepared for. I absolutely welcome such a thing because it provides an opportunity for me to learn something new. I hope you all do the same when I construct a libertarian argument you are not familiar with. I know everyone acts tough when they get to hide behind an anonymous IP address. We forget that behind the username is a real human being with complexities and, hopefully, an earnest interest in uncovering truth and empathy for their fellow man which informs their good-faith beliefs on what constitutes a just society. Also, I know this is a comedy forum but as it relates to my threads, I'd really like to limit the amount of substance-less posts that consist of riffs or attempts at cheap-shot humor. I'm really interested in comparing and contrasting political beliefs.
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Nov 19, 2015 07:30
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jrodefeld posted:Also, I know this is a comedy forum but as it relates to my threads, I'd really like to limit the amount of substance-less posts that consist of riffs or attempts at cheap-shot humor. I'm really interested in comparing and contrasting political beliefs. Nope, gently caress you.
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Nov 19, 2015 07:33
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Why are slaver states more economically free than the United States of America?
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Nov 19, 2015 07:42
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jrodefeld posted:Also, I know this is a comedy forum but as it relates to my threads, I'd really like to limit the amount of substance-less posts that consist of riffs or attempts at cheap-shot humor. I'm really interested in comparing and contrasting political beliefs. I am firmly in the anti-"watermelon loving" camp. Where do you stand?
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Nov 19, 2015 07:43
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jrodefeld posted:We forget that behind the username is a real human being with complexities and, hopefully, an earnest interest in uncovering truth and empathy for their fellow man which informs their good-faith beliefs on what constitutes a just society. jrodefeld posted:Also, I know this is a comedy forum but as it relates to my threads, I'd really like to limit the amount of substance-less posts that consist of riffs or attempts at cheap-shot humor. I'm really interested in comparing and contrasting political beliefs.
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Nov 19, 2015 07:45
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I think if Jrod does a live debate with anybody it should be smoothrich. The attention marbles guy can be the moderator.
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Nov 19, 2015 07:48
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jrodefeld posted:I've been told I am very good looking by more than a few women so no problems there. What about men? Post the celebrity who looks the most like you E: IFor fairness I'll do me first 
VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 07:50
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jrodefeld posted:This is just an idea I am throwing out there. I engage in these sorts of discussions because I am very passionate about these ideas and I think that the act of debate is a great exercise in subjected ideas to scrutiny. And, for the record, I am not as arrogant or condescending as I sometimes come across. I don't know the answers to every objection that is raised. I feel I have read enough in depth to anticipate most objections to the free society Stop there please, as your free society is not based on any notion of egalitarian philosophy nor economic empowerment for those whom are oppressed. Don't use buzzwords like freedom and liberty, especially when you distort their definitions to mean absolutely nothing. You are a moron, and if you haven't noticed these 'ideas' you're passionate about are pretty much Voodoo economics for why we should give white dudes slaves. Take a look at yourself critically, from any economically disadvantaged person's perspective, and maybe you will attain empathy. Then MAYBE we will have some for you.
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Nov 19, 2015 08:00
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Jrod how many Freedom Points will America get for legalizing slavery to be more like the UAE? Or will we still be behind them because we don't imprison the civilization-destroying homosexuals? I want to make America free, please provide me a list of subversives and infidels we need to suppress to reach freedom. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 08:07
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jrodefeld posted:However, I would be absolutely happy to do a written debate with one, or a small handful, of the serious members of this forum. Caros and Cemetary Gator come to mind, since they are two of the most substantive posters on this site. These threads get unwieldy quickly and even when I intend to only respond to specific posters, I get distracted my inane or inflammatory substance-free replies and feel like responded to everyone. "I post rarely, therefore I should be engaged by the most frequent posters" "I post from biased sources that are not peer-reviewed, therefore I am the only one posing substance" "I am wildly attractive and I must tell everyone on a debate thread that I am wildly attractive, while also posting about how this is a serious debate guys" "Self-Ownership is an irrefutable axiom, therefore states that allow more slavery are economically free" Twerkteam Pizza fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 08:07
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Will you allow jrod slaves if he promises to only keep them until he can replace them with robots?
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Nov 19, 2015 08:10
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