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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:They also confirmed From Beyond as just Awakening Zone that makes Scions, and not with the final card's search ability. I am 90% on these being real.
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Nov 18, 2015 19:51
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The Human Crouton posted:Mods on mtgsalvation have confirmed that they are real. Mods on mtgsalvation closed the thread on Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh as fake because "some pixels" two hours after the thread was posted (strangely, the source was this thread). MTGSalvation's mods just make poo poo up as to whether a card is real or not. Becuase MTGS is a cesspool. To quote: "In the modern era (since people started putting together reasonably competent fake card layouts for faking purposes) there's really one thing to look at in evaluating a picture of a card: where's the art come from? Professional-grade fantasy illustration doesn't just grow on trees, so generally people making fake cards have to pull it off of publicly accessible places (DeviantArt, etc.) Most of the time when art is sourced from one of these, people can track it down pretty quick and prove the card's a fake. Conversely, unseen art which no one can track down points strongly at a real card. In this case, the art is even more significant than usual. In both cases, it's depicting something that couldn't just be a random piece of repurposed fantasy art, but something narrowly specific to MTG. The picture of Kozilek is, very specifically, a picture of Kozilek, it can't be anything else -- and we haven't seen any source reveal images for OGW that this might have been pulled from, nor is it old promo art from the first block. The Wastes image is actually even more specific -- it depicts mountains converted into bismuth patterns (which, as we saw on Kozilek's Sentinel, is the destruction effect left by Kozilek's brood) in a world where there are floating rocks in the sky, which is insanely specific to Zendikar. And since the bismuth thing is new for BFZ and didn't appear in ROE, it can't possibly be old leftover art. Given all that, it's hard to draw a reasonable conclusion about either illustration other than that they're real, and if they're real then the cards are also real." VVVVV Zoness posted:Can we get the neogaf analysis on this though Seems fine to me, I thought he had a well-written point and nobody cares about the source of the argument. 
Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 20:00
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OFS please restate all your reasons why you think they're fake. You keep repeating the conclusion, but I don't see any convincing arguments. Not wanting to introduce something in a small set? That's meaningless. What does the number of cards in a set have to do with anything? They're jettisoning the 3 block paradigm they can jettison any conventions about when is the 'right' time to do anything. No reminder text? If it's something intrinsic to the game from now on I can easily see them dispensing with reminder text, especially on a full art card and two mythic rares.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:08
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Can we get the neogaf analysis on this though
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Nov 18, 2015 20:09
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Lottery of Babylon posted:This sounds like a distinction that could not possibly bother anyone except Maro, so they're probably real and you're probably right. In fact, the difference between colorless and generic mana does bother Maro.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:10
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EatinCake posted:All the discussion about a new mana symbol has got me and a buddy talking about 'snowdrazi', and, well
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Nov 18, 2015 20:10
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The evidence that they are real seems overwhelming. The bismuth theme is consistent with prior cards, the Kozilek art is real, and that Kozilek art did not exist on the internet before yesterday.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:19
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Lottery of Babylon posted:This sounds like a distinction that could not possibly bother anyone except Maro, so they're probably real and you're probably right. Well, the thing is that from a mechanical perspective generic mana and colorless mana aren't the same thing. The only reason it hasn't previously been an issue is because colorless mana has never actually mattered in the game. Trying to make a set with a "colorless matters" theme is going to run into that problem eventually.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:19
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Some Numbers posted:Your hypothesis is that they're printing an Eldrazi Mythic that will actually be literally unplayable in 99% of formats after the prerelease? They did it once in BFZ, so there's precedent. (I kid, newlamog is actually playable) Northjayhawk posted:I could see them using this "mechanic" in future sets, could even be evergreen. Its general enough that it doesn't have to be a Kozilek thing, and it might solve a problem with artifacts. Artifacts have color pie issues, but if you can require colorless, then you can make stronger pie-infringing artifacts since you'd have to weaken your mana base to gain access to it. that just makes it a 6th color, I doubt it will extend beyond this set / eldrazi, but when we Return Yet Again To Ravnica because Emrakul is rolling in for end-game, they will totally show up again to ruin Ravnica's duals. Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:(This card is fake.) Reminder text is often left off rares and mythics for space considerations. I still think there is a high likelihood of these being fake but the cards and ideas are trite enough that they feel very in line with wotc. The typo on "alleksi" and the timing are the only things that really make me think "fake."
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Nov 18, 2015 20:21
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I'll bet someone a foil Wastes that these are real.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:22
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So what numpad combination are you guys using to recreate the diamond? 
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Nov 18, 2015 20:27
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bhsman posted:So what numpad combination are you guys using to recreate the diamond? Ctrl + V That or I could do <>.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:28
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bhsman posted:So what numpad combination are you guys using to recreate the diamond? Hold ALT, press 4, release ALT. Sigma-X posted:I still think there is a high likelihood of these being fake but the cards and ideas are trite enough that they feel very in line with wotc. The typo on "alleksi" and the timing are the only things that really make me think "fake." I was also skeptical of the fact it was marked "Common" instead of "Land" as well, but now that I think about it we already know that OGW doesn't have a basic land sheet (Maro confirmed OGW Fat Packs have land packs with BFZ full arts). Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 20:29
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Sigma-X posted:that just makes it a 6th color, I doubt it will extend beyond this set / eldrazi, but when we Return Yet Again To Ravnica because Emrakul is rolling in for end-game, they will totally show up again to ruin Ravnica's duals. Artifacts are in such a sad, sorry state right now (maybe 1 or 2 playable per block) that they either need to do something big like this, or just get rid of the concept of colorless spells outside of eldrazi. Also, it could just be a minor theme in most sets, make sure you have basic and nonbasic lands in every set that can produce a colorless and then you can have powerful artifacts. Having this in the game going forward makes a lot of sense and solves some long-standing issues. I don't think it would be confusing to players to errata all old colorless-producing cards, because going forward you would never again see anything produce {}, that generic mana with a number symbol would only exist in casting costs from now on. If they had to design magic all over again, they should have designed it that way, give colorless mana its own symbol like the diamond separate from the generic cost symbol.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:30
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Angry Grimace posted:Hold ALT, press 4, release ALT. ♦ Thanks~ ♦
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Nov 18, 2015 20:34
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Angry Grimace posted:Well, the thing is that from a mechanical perspective generic mana and colorless mana aren't the same thing. The only thing I'm willing to call real is the art and the frame  if the names and text are real there is nothing I can do so why get upset?
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Nov 18, 2015 20:39
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bhsman posted:So what numpad combination are you guys using to recreate the diamond? You can use  if you want.  , ,  , and  are all left overs from PITR.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:40
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Northjayhawk posted:Artifacts are in such a sad, sorry state right now (maybe 1 or 2 playable per block) that they either need to do something big like this When has this not been the case aside from artifacts/equipment as a pushed theme?
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Nov 18, 2015 20:40
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bhsman posted:♦ Thanks~ ♦ Unfortuantely I have no idea how to make generic mana symbols, like ② even though they exist as some kind of code. PleasantDirge posted:The only thing I'm willing to call real is the art and the frame I'm not sure who's upset?
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Nov 18, 2015 20:41
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Angry Grimace posted:I was also skeptical of the fact it was marked "Common" instead of "Land" as well, but now that I think about it we already know that OGW doesn't have a basic land sheet (Maro confirmed OGW Fat Packs have land packs with BFZ full arts). I kind of wonder if they would either replace the basic land slot in OGW packs with Wastes or have Wastes be one of the lands that comes up in that slot. If it's just another common in the pack then we may get to see a modern-day recreation of everyone trying to open enough packs to get enough basics for their Karn/Kozilek EDH deck just like in the early days of Magic. But in actuality they're probably just going to put tons of them in each Intro Pack and people will actually buy them.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:48
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Sigma-X posted:They did it once in BFZ, so there's precedent. I would 1000% support another return to Ravnica just so I can play Maze's End again. I'd kill for some full art guildates
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Nov 18, 2015 20:49
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NivMizzet posted:I kind of wonder if they would either replace the basic land slot in OGW packs with Wastes or have Wastes be one of the lands that comes up in that slot.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:52
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:They also confirmed From Beyond as just Awakening Zone that makes Scions, and not with the final card's search ability. Thoughtseize in Modern Masters. e: I can believe these cards are real - I don't know if they are, but it wouldn't floor me - but Lord knows it won't be because MTGSalvation said so without a cited source.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:52
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Oh, and in case we forget, Uncharted Realms is back to Battle for Zendikar. Today's riveting (and unfortunately, Krienes-penned) tale, "Hedron Alignment." * Gideon, Kiora, Drana, Nissa and a couple of random people from Zendikar are meeting in a war room to discuss how they should deal with Ulamog (a scout has informed them he's coming). The rest of the army doesn't know Ulamog is coming yet so they have a bit of time to plan. Kiora's plan is to bum-rush Ulamog with the Bident (she's kind of an arrogant jerk) and Drana, of course, likes fighting so she's solidly in. They also have Nissa's axe. * Jace wanders back into camp, and acts super smug about how much smarter he is than everyone. He's awed at Gideon-senpai's manliness (this is a theme, everyone is awed at Gideon-senpai's manliness the entire story). Jace tries to explain to them he wants to trap the Eldrazi in the ALIGNED HEDRON NETWORK. Kiora gets pissed the gently caress off because she wants to kill him; Drana and Kiora agree. Jace repeats Ugin's warning that it will leave and eat some other plane. Kiora says, "so?" but Nissa suddenly changes her mind because she feels guilty. * Kiora basically says "gently caress off" and summons an Octopus to take her away. Jace tries one last time to convince her, this time using MIND POWERS. Kiora does not loving like this and attacks Jace. Jace has to be protected by Gideon-senpai because Jace is a little bitch. * Jace sets up the plan to arrange hedrons into an aligned network. It's apparently a pain in the rear end to do. Ulamog shows up and Gideon fights him one-on-one; Jace is all full of admiration for Gideon-senpai yet again. * They close the network around Ulamog, but something's wrong. Nissa uses her magic elf powers to determine that there's a problem with one of the hedrons. Nissa asks Jace why his poo poo is broken. He's like "IDK" so she invites him to do a mind-meld. I can't tell if Jace is hot for Nissa or something or the writer is just that terrible with the prose, but he gets a little weird about it. They fix it because she can see leylines and poo poo. * Ulamog is trapped. Bobby Nixon kills a random grunt and says some generic evil poo poo and presumably gives a Ted DiBiase laugh. The story ends on that.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:03
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The Human Crouton posted:Mods on mtgsalvation have confirmed that they are real. I wouldn't trust the mods on mtgsalvation to tell me the colour of the sky.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:08
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Rimusutera posted:I wouldn't trust the mods on mtgsalvation to tell me the colour of the sky. Its not a coin-flip when they confirm something, they blow it sometimes but they usually have at least a 90% hit rate, and this particular case has an unusual amount of evidence supporting it being real.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:15
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Dzyl (http://www.twitch.tv/dzyl) is currently drafting an absurd March of the Machines + Jeskai Ascendancy + mana artifacts deck in the new cube. He is so amazing. 
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Nov 18, 2015 21:27
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My one issue with the idea of using "colorless only" as cost reduction is that it has a good chance to break mana accelaration decks in older formats I mean, probably not because those tend to actually be prison decks, but still
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Nov 18, 2015 21:30
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It being fake would require a ridiculous confluence of events and far more effort than them being leaked spoilers. Occam's Razor can be applied here fairly readily I think. Them being fake would require people getting the art (before the art is publically available), making fakes that are templated correctly, and predict the story beats in a satisfying way that I think most people didn't predict, and create a convincing counterfeit. Meanwhile all you need for them to be real is someone in a print shop to leak them. This happened for BFZ indirectly with the Gideon/Ob Nix spoilers, which were secondhand. Also, remember that Wizards doesn't really care about eternal formats when making mechanics. They barely test for modern in the development phase.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:31
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Angry Grimace posted:Oh, and in case we forget, Uncharted Realms is back to Battle for Zendikar. Is this different from the time just before that Ulamog was trapped and Ob Nixilis disrupted the alignment? These stories are all blurring together.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:31
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Lancelot posted:Is this different from the time just before that Ulamog was trapped and Ob Nixilis disrupted the alignment? These stories are all blurring together.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:32
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I think the spoiled cards are real. If they are fake, they're by far the best looking fakes I've ever seen. I'm guessing that <> is just the new way they have to represent specifically colorless mana. This means that all old lands will have to be errata'd but it also means that going into the future new lands will get printed that produce <>. Printing a basic with no land type is a pretty simple and clever way to sidestep the issue with having a 6th basic land type. It's so obvious that you can do that but without colorless specific costs there is no reason to do it. Also the Kozilek flavor text paralells Ulamog's. So one of the mechanics of the set is costs that can only be paid with colorless mana. This seems fine, I don't think it has enough design space to carry more than a small set. It's odd that they are now making a colorless mana symbol 20 years into the game, but whatever.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:43
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GeneX posted:My one issue with the idea of using "colorless only" as cost reduction is that it has a good chance to break mana accelaration decks in older formats They just restricted Chalice of the Void in Vintage and that deck sucks in Legacy, they can toss it a bone. Lancelot posted:Dzyl (http://www.twitch.tv/dzyl) is currently drafting an absurd March of the Machines + Jeskai Ascendancy + mana artifacts deck in the new cube. He is so amazing. Mull to 6 on the play, keep a hand where the only land is Azorius Chancery  edit: ahahaha his opponent helpfully saying "you need to play a different land first" and his opponent assembles a loving Mindslaver + Yomiji, Who Bars the Way combo. This is the best Chamale fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 21:43
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This isn't even the first time they've changed the templating for producing colorless mana. Lands used to say "T: Add one colorless mana to your mana pool." This reminded me of something - I wish they'd either have cards literally written as "T: (Mana Symbol)" so like an Underground Sea would say "T: U or B" or have all lands including basics have "T: Add (Mana Symbol) to your mana pool." written out. The inconsistency leads new players to think things like the player I had at FNM two weeks ago who tried to tap his Hedron Archive to get two landfall triggers.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:50
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Yeah, this change would actually make things closer to how the were in Alpha.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:54
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BJPaskoff posted:The inconsistency leads new players to think things like the player I had at FNM two weeks ago who tried to tap his Hedron Archive to get two landfall triggers. Wait, how did they even reason themselves into thinking that worked? Did they explain at all? 
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Nov 18, 2015 22:00
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BJPaskoff posted:This isn't even the first time they've changed the templating for producing colorless mana. Lands used to say "T: Add one colorless mana to your mana pool." Reminds me of the ol' "Cast Dark Ritual, fetch three Swamps".
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Nov 18, 2015 22:05
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To be fair, before I actually learned the rules to Magic, I thought you needed literal mana. Like, a physical representation of what your lands added to your pool.
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Nov 18, 2015 22:10
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Lets Pickle posted:I think the spoiled cards are real. If they are fake, they're by far the best looking fakes I've ever seen. I'm guessing that <> is just the new way they have to represent specifically colorless mana. This means that all old lands will have to be errata'd but it also means that going into the future new lands will get printed that produce <>. Printing a basic with no land type is a pretty simple and clever way to sidestep the issue with having a 6th basic land type. It's so obvious that you can do that but without colorless specific costs there is no reason to do it. Also the Kozilek flavor text paralells Ulamog's. I don't think the pain lands or any lands that said "Tap: Add (1) to your mana pool" will be any different, it's just that for this set the diamond will represent a single colorless mana.
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Nov 18, 2015 22:10
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Zoness posted:When has this not been the case aside from artifacts/equipment as a pushed theme? Want me to name a few good artifacts? Mox Jet, Ruby Sapphire, Emerald, Pearl. Black Lotus, The Rack, Black Vice, Icy Manipulator, Candelabra of Tawnos, time vault, gauntlet of might, jester's cap, scroll rack, solemn simulacrum, serrated arrows, ensaring bridge, howling mine, mana crypt, lions eye diamond, aether vial, zuran orb, lotus petal, nevinyrral's disk, memory jar, sol ring, umezawa's jitte, sundering titan.
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Nov 18, 2015 22:20
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