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So, I got a job offer. Software Engineering position at a prominent financial company - $66,000 a year plus a nice signing bonus. I start with 2 weeks vacation time, 6 sick days, and 2 'personal days.' They provide health insurance, all holidays observed by the New York stock exchange, and a 401k. I start with 6 months paid training in Raleigh, North Carolina, then transition into real work either there or in one a few New England locations, the sexiest of which would be Boston, IMO. While I'm training, housing and utilities are paid for by the company, and I've had multiple aquaintences tell me off the record that the accommodations are pretty nice. The only thing I'm uncertain about is the fact that this would be a pretty big relocation for me, since I live in the DFW metroplex in Texas. Anyone see anything else in there that should spook me, or is it otherwise as nice a deal as it appears to be?
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Nov 19, 2015 20:49
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ToxicSlurpee posted:What was the quote about "the requirements are like a kid's Christmas wish list?" Not the same quote, but cross posting from the Oldie thread where this discussion literally happened within the last day: Che Delilas posted:The standard advice here is to apply stuff that you aren't qualified for on paper. Because job postings are big wish lists from the company, written by HR drones who talked with the leader of the dev department for 2 minutes at best (and at worst working from a list of all the technologies used at the company, however rarely). I don't care how strongly worded the job posting is. "ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED SKILLS" still only means that it'd be nice if you had that skill. wilderthanmild posted:Yea, as far as listed qualifications I was always under the impression that a lot of the positions were listed with exact qualifications of someone who previously held the position rather than actual hard requirements. Che Delilas posted:Heh, a lot of the time it isn't even that accurate. It's the IT manager meeting with the HR drone and listing literally everything that the business uses, no matter the proportion or how well-covered any particular technology is (e.g., they already have enough frontend people), and the HR drone translating that into a job description that doesn't really encompass what the business needs from a candidate right now, even if anybody on earth met every qualification and the business was willing to pay $texas for that person (which is never in both cases).
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Nov 19, 2015 20:54
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Spiritus Nox posted:Anyone see anything else in there that should spook me, or is it otherwise as nice a deal as it appears to be?
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Nov 19, 2015 21:04
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Spiritus Nox posted:So, I got a job offer. Software Engineering position at a prominent financial company - $66,000 a year plus a nice signing bonus. I start with 2 weeks vacation time, 6 sick days, and 2 'personal days.' They provide health insurance, all holidays observed by the New York stock exchange, and a 401k. I start with 6 months paid training in Raleigh, North Carolina, then transition into real work either there or in one a few New England locations, the sexiest of which would be Boston, IMO. While I'm training, housing and utilities are paid for by the company, and I've had multiple aquaintences tell me off the record that the accommodations are pretty nice. The only thing I'm uncertain about is the fact that this would be a pretty big relocation for me, since I live in the DFW metroplex in Texas. Anyone see anything else in there that should spook me, or is it otherwise as nice a deal as it appears to be? Financial Tech in general is one of the better paid sections of software development, so $66k looks a little on the low side to me. For reference, a prominent financial company that recruited heavily from my school was paying their interns $40/hr (~$80k equivalent) with free housing for the summer, and I would expect their new grad hires to be in the $80-100k range. They were out in Philly, though, so there could be a cost of living factor in there.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:13
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let i hug posted:Financial Tech in general is one of the better paid sections of software development, so $66k looks a little on the low side to me. For reference, a prominent financial company that recruited heavily from my school was paying their interns $40/hr (~$80k equivalent) with free housing for the summer, and I would expect their new grad hires to be in the $80-100k range. They were out in Philly, though, so there could be a cost of living factor in there. Mm. How should I go about negotiating, if I think I can do better? Just straight up say "I've noticed that software developers in Raleigh average this much money and you're paying me less"?
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Nov 19, 2015 21:16
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Spiritus Nox posted:Mm. How should I go about negotiating, if I think I can do better? Just straight up say "I've noticed that software developers in Raleigh average this much money and you're paying me less"? Bringing up average numbers for the area is a good call, especially if you have solid numbers on new grads specifically. Check Glassdoor. You might even check Glassdoor for the company in particular and see if they just in general pay a little on the low side. Your benefits (outside of the housing, which you have more information about than me) aren't anything amazing, so you could try giving them the option of meeting you on one front if not both. Something like "with only 2 weeks vacation, and given the current market salary for developers in this position, I'd like to see $x but I could also do Y days PTO." You also always have the option of using them as a stepping stone if they're the best lead you have going right now. Like I said, FinTech in general is a well paying market segment to be in, and once you're on the East Coast and have specific experience it'll be easy to hop up to NYC and make real money.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:21
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let i hug posted:FinTech in general is a well paying market segment to be in, and once you're on the East Coast and have specific experience it'll be easy to hop up to NYC and make real money.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:24
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:No poo poo. My buddy was making crazy cash at Goldman Sachs shortly after graduation. Unfortunately he hated the job but he stacked a lot of paper in the few years he was there before bouncing to Google. Yeah, I think I saw in one of Eran Hammer's posts about his failed startup that he couldn't get anyone to join his team because they were 25 and making $250k + equity bonuses working for big banks and nothing else seemed worth it. It kind of makes sense though; trading algorithms literally generate money without any marketing/sales/help desk/etc. and it's easy to justify your salary when you're that close to the businesses' revenue.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:28
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Any idea how long they're likely to wait around for me to sign or get off the pot? I just got the offer today, the position starts in January, and I'm in ongoing talks with a couple of other potential employers including AT&T, and I was definitely wanting to try get through those talks before making a final decision even before I found out that the salary's a little low - especially given the relocation.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:35
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You have to ask them that, because every company varies. Usually they tell you when they extend the offer. Tell the other places you're interviewing with that you have an expiring offer, also; they should try to put you through faster.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:47
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let i hug posted:You have to ask them that, because every company varies. Usually they tell you when they extend the offer. Tell the other places you're interviewing with that you have an expiring offer, also; they should try to put you through faster. Fair enough. Just to be clear, since I've gotten kind of a mixed impression - how much more should I expect a new grad to get, especially given that I don't have any internship experience? I just don't want to push too hard in negotiations or pass up on a good opportunity because I was holding out for something unreasonable. Here's a sanitized version of my Resume, for reference.
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Nov 19, 2015 22:03
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I have no way to gauge NC offers but I would have taken $65K in Boston when I graduated.
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Nov 19, 2015 22:37
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Doing a little more research, the AT&T job I just started the process for offers a comparable salary in Dallas, so I wouldn't have to relocate for that. Hopefully I'll be able to get through to the end of that before my existing offer expires - if I get an offer for the Dallas job and the hours/benefits aren't relative garbage, it would be nice not to have to move half a country away for my first gig.
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Nov 19, 2015 22:41
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Spiritus Nox posted:Fair enough. Well the thing is that it can vary considerably, especially since "new grads" can have very different levels of experience both professionally (internships, co-ops, actual jobs pre-college, etc) and academically. Given that you don't have any prior internship experience and you didn't go to a particularly well known CS school, you might do well to just take 66k because you're something of an unknown quantity. Just know that you'll probably only want to stay there for a few years because at that base rate your raises probably won't be competitive with the rate you'll command with more experience. For what it's worth, the salary numbers I was dropping earlier were coming from my experiences at a large school with a nationally competitive CS program. There was a lot of recruiting for Google/Microsoft/Facebook/etc. and so other companies were probably pitching higher pay rates than they might otherwise. I would say the biggest thing to keep in mind is that you'll have a lot of opportunities to fish for higher pay, but going into a job where you have limited room for technical growth isn't going to get you anywhere. Especially as a new grad, having good work experience that attracts interest in your resume and gives you stuff to talk about in interviews is worth more than any company will pay you. $66k is ~$10k more than the average adult in America makes, and you're (presumably) in your 20s. Salary and even benefits are honestly some of the last things you should be thinking about.
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Nov 20, 2015 01:36
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let i hug posted:Well the thing is that it can vary considerably, especially since "new grads" can have very different levels of experience both professionally (internships, co-ops, actual jobs pre-college, etc) and academically. Given that you don't have any prior internship experience and you didn't go to a particularly well known CS school, you might do well to just take 66k because you're something of an unknown quantity. Just know that you'll probably only want to stay there for a few years because at that base rate your raises probably won't be competitive with the rate you'll command with more experience. Again, fair enough. If I can swing a comparable job closer to home then that'll be ideal, but I'll definitely keep all of this in mind. Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 02:08
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let i hug posted:Salary and even benefits are honestly some of the last things you should be thinking about. There is strong evidence that your starting salary at your first job post-college has a long-term impact on your salary at future jobs. There's no reason to allow yourself to be lowballed if you're capable of getting competitive offers. http://www.nber.org/digest/nov06/w12159.html
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Nov 20, 2015 02:25
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Ithaqua posted:There is strong evidence that your starting salary at your first job post-college has a long-term impact on your salary at future jobs. There's no reason to allow yourself to be lowballed if you're capable of getting competitive offers. Lying through your teeth at the nth job about what you made at the first can make up for this.
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Nov 20, 2015 03:08
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sexual rickshaw posted:I've done some web development in the past, both part-time, on contract and freelance, but I'm still somewhat of a junior developer and I've been looking for something more stable - here's my anonymous resume - any suggestions on things I should change and comment on? How should I be looking for jobs? I live in a major tech market, but all the jobs I'm finding are asking for 4-5 years of experience I'd suggest putting work experience at the top and education at the bottom of the first page. If you can think of ways to highlight the outcomes of some of your responsibility bullet points, that's a way to improve it. IE, how much time did your task automation using gulp/grunt save? How many websites did you work on? Sometimes developers don't give Wordpress much respect, so it might be a double-edged sword to mention by name unless you're looking for more WP work specifically. I'd definitely remove "minor" from the "backend changes in Rails" line. Unnecessary adjective, sentence is still true without it. You might also want to remove legacy system/older codebase where they appear -- replace it with "existing codebase" if you want to convey that you've worked with someone else's horrible big ball of mud before. I'd also consider taking the dates off of the accomplishments/volunteering thing (except for Dean's List) and listing them in order of prestige (ie, Eagle Scout, Dean's List, Volunteer Thing, tech meetups). My reasoning for this is that an Eagle Scout is an impressive thing to be and I could easily see a boss who was also an Eagle Scout giving you an interview based on that -- but it could easily be overlooked at the bottom of a list. It also helps avoid ~tech industry ageism~ by not dating you so specifically.
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Nov 20, 2015 03:32
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Space Whale posted:Lying through your teeth at the nth job about what you made at the first can make up for this. Confirmed. I make about 4 times now what I made in my first job.
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Nov 20, 2015 05:08
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So I participated in a mobile hackathon recently and did almost no networking during the event with the judges because it was too much fun working on our app. Regardless, the judge from Microsoft had been a coordinator of a short hackathon during an MS promotion at our school a month or so ago that I participated in, and apparently he liked the improvements he saw between my presentation at that hackathon and this one. Both focussed less on code and more on developing and prototyping scalable product concepts along the chosen theme with a minimal cost-to-start and pitching it to the judges, although we definitely coded almost everything for our project for the most recent event. He passed my contact details along to another MS employee, a former alum of my school, for an "informational interview" to talk about opportunities there. While I'm extremely excited about this, I'm also a bit bewildered; nobody has asked me for my resume, nobody has seen my code. My new contact with the company has set up a lunch, possibly with a couple other folks from MS "to give me some different perspectives". Is this a normal way to screen potential candidates? Internships haven't even been mentioned, and maybe I'm being obtuse and I should have asked. I'm pretty excited to meet with them, but I'm a little afraid that the opportunities they have in mind won't include developer work. They know I'm a CS major at a state school dwarfed by a much bigger top 10 CS school in a nearby city, and that I've done Hackathon presentations, but not much more yet. Either way, it's still been a huge boost to my confidence. Does anyone have any idea what I might expect, what to prepare for, etc? And maybe give my newly edited resume another look? I'm afraid my projects sections is just one big wall of text, but I'm not sure what to cut. I only added the coursework section after someone mentioned electives might be useful recently, and my work history could go as well for as interesting as it is. Smugworth fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 06:27
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Smugworth posted:Is this a normal way to screen potential candidates? Totally. As you mentioned, it's called "networking", which puts you in the top 50% of the applicant pool, and allows you to bypass having to play résumé keyword bingo just to talk to a human. Just make sure every sentence out of your mouth is about positive experiences with classmates and teammates. It sounds like you have really strong communication skills, which are often times more important than raw programming talent. People who are brilliant programmers but can't convey their ideas clearly to others are way too common in this industry. Being able to code and more importantly explain what the hell you did or plan on doing is a skill that can't be taught from a text book.
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Nov 20, 2015 06:49
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I am studying systems analysis and computer programming on my own for over 20 years . (I graduated in 1992 with Honours . The systems analysis and design method university course still is from Purdue University, Indiana. That course is part of a computer science course but it is business oriented or business related.) I started my own business corporation in 1995, and now finally get more money to invest in it. Never got one valid offer in this field of work yet, and due to my old age, will hardly be worth it if not on my own. I was offered to work with Microsoft Canada before the anti-trust case and postponed it to avoid ongoing problems I then informed them about. I will try to read more this later on... Edit: I had a green card offer in Ohio in 1993, but I never got any detailed info on that , so I never got it and never went . Probably have to move to Europe for diplomatic reasons now. Swit fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 21:58
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Swit posted:I am studying systems analysis and computer programming on my own for over 20 years . What on earth?
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Nov 21, 2015 22:37
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Ithaqua posted:What on earth? I'm being offered to go study law in the law school of the international court. This would be a good opportunities to improve on systems analysis ethics . It may also help me to protect my own business corporation system and information system. I also have relatives there, but yes, that is how competition works here. It's for law enforcement of my fredom of expression and opinion so that I can transfer my programming work without being forced to give it away for nothing. That court currently is on earth, though I presume that it will soon integrate space space missions with asteroid mining. I read today there is a new person worth 100 b US in Europe now. They offered me a house for $900 worth over $60,000. Edit: There will be new legislation related to encryption to prevent further attacks. Swit fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 23:16
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Swit posted:I'm being offered to go study law in the law school of the international court. Are you asking a question? Everything you're saying just comes across as totally unrelated statements.
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Nov 22, 2015 01:07
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The court is on earth.
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Nov 22, 2015 01:14
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I don't think his first language is English. Swit - Can you try typing up your situation and details in your native language, then feed that in to google translate?
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Nov 22, 2015 01:15
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I think Swit is a markov generator.
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Nov 22, 2015 01:40
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Lol
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Nov 22, 2015 02:04
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It's kyoon.
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Nov 22, 2015 03:24
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EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE WITHIN SINGLE ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS PROVES 1 DAY 1 GOD IS TAUGHT EVIL. IGNORANCE OF TIMECUBE4 SIMPLE MATH IS RETARDATION AND EVIL EDUCATION DAMNATION. CUBELESS AMERICANS DESERVE - AND SHALL BE EXTERMINATED.
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Nov 22, 2015 03:36
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You went to CMU? You are educated stupid.
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Nov 22, 2015 06:23
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Dude's an EVE Goon. They're a whole special breed of people.
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Nov 22, 2015 08:29
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I'm actually going to learn German and train to become police there. I also plan to run for political office. Also, why should not English be my first language? Is it because it is my first language? Or is it just some form of attacks designed at discrediting me and to credit yourself for attacks? It could look like a good ground to bring to courts , especially if the same courts were to attacks my works equally or worst. Due to the police training, police science, law school, and other security related work, + intelligence work, if not as informant, it seems to apply to the exact same conditions, comments, intentions, and competition systems. Also, I went to a vocational school, and so the honours diploma doesn't count towards a university degree. Most of the legal system in which Microsoft Canada operates prefer to justify "marginalization". However, this marginalization does not apply to other political entities at this time. I never made even over $20,000 a year in over 29 years except for the last year or the last 3 years. I at least got over $15,000 for the first time by then (starting 3 years ago). Btw, I will copyright my posts and some related replies since there seems to be correlations which I can very well use for work or military work. I'm also offered to apply for paid government intelligence work in Russia and I'm also learning Russian. I also have relatives in France which was just moved into war due to attacks, I can work security there too. As for being an EVE goon, I only play solo (although I do programming for them and have 4 coders including 1 engi, 1 teacher and 1 business person, who's not a coder , but only an analyst) because others would interfere against my ingame income too much. (It also avoids other problems with my other out of game income as well.) The programs are: 1 evaluation program, including evaluation of psychological warfare, and evaluations of conditions. 1 business program, but buy and sell, stocks and future update marketing 1 third program for updates on citadel which range around 100 billion to start. (this last one is not complete). I will work more on producing business prospectus shortly, since I have little time for resume due to my business obligations. I also plan to get an office in NATO's cyber-security HQ. I know someone who trains the US Navy and runs a security business to test intelligence with infiltration schemes. This is apparently designed to help find vulnerabilities and so help to improve their security by fixing it. It's not free.
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Nov 22, 2015 15:52
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what the gently caress
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Nov 22, 2015 15:55
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Swit posted:I also plan to run for political office. I'm really looking forward to your campaign speeches.
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Nov 22, 2015 16:00
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Hadlock posted:I don't think his first language is English. I am translating and registering a biographical sketch written by the brother of my grand-father who was a religious brother as well. Some of the reasons for the biographical sketch being that , biography are not material that are copywritten in the US. I do register that with the US copyright office in Washinton, DC. Also, the biography is about their grand-father (the grand-father of my grand-father) who was in the US Army in 1822 when our family name changed. In the early 1950s, the US government opened and ran a memorial for the US Army Medical Department , which still runs today though they don't touch it much nor deal with it for a very long time. There are indeed other details although it is better dealt with in other channels, imho. However, just so you know, I could see where the attacks would come from... Ah yes, almost forgot, just because my family name is American from the US Army doesn't mean that my first language is American. I am more English or English Canadian than American language wise. Also, Google translate is limited in its scope of accurate translation and it can't , won't and shouldn't be relied on for the biographical sketch related to the US Army. It is very likely that it will not be on the level or near the level ... Swit fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Nov 22, 2015 |
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Nov 22, 2015 16:02
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So hey, sending applications to tons of random stuff seemed to pay off in the end. I was offered a trainee position over at IBM, and while it's not software development per se (what I'll actually be doing is still a bit unclear, but it seems to lean towards the management end of things), it's still better than what I was doing before. Baby steps!
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Nov 22, 2015 16:08
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Blinkz0rz posted:what the gently caress lol (I should get one of those rolling chairs in around 3.5 hours today...)
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Nov 22, 2015 16:08
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Kuule hain nussivan posted:So hey, sending applications to tons of random stuff seemed to pay off in the end. I was offered a trainee position over at IBM, and while it's not software development per se (what I'll actually be doing is still a bit unclear, but it seems to lean towards the management end of things), it's still better than what I was doing before. Baby steps! I moved right next to the biggest IBM office in Toronto, Canada, and it has underground entry and exits from and onto the highway. I still have one of my IBM flowcharting templates (I think they stole the rest of the blank pad) and I remember the green IBM flowcharting stencil. I still prefer business with them most of the time. My position offers are more business contract related than , say, paid employee, with lawyers to cover for contracts, obligation, rules and what not. I have to hire my own lawyers, pay to make my own rules, and so on. That includes time, money, and the security required to keep it or even use it. I also have to hire more people , the more work there is to do. Ideally, I can create systems that can produce more work, but it is better to be done without causing social problems, so it is better to some more people working on it. I never has to give lectures in University yet, but being more pressed for security lately means to upgrade security to compensate for risks of innacuracy, failure, and prevent damage or effect of potential coercion, possibly even worst than extortion. (I also plan to design and register patents.)
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Nov 22, 2015 16:19
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