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Setec_Astronomy posted:Move the Orb of Zot to Vaults:5. And really, an easy change to make extended less tedious would be to shrink the map size of hell1-6 & pan floors to half or even to a quarter of their current size. They are absurdly huge for what is mostly empty space with chaff demons. Increasing the density of enemies and reducing time spent looking for the next portal or staircase would help them be less boring. Why are they so huge while lair branches get shrunk. Darox fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 12:35
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| # ? May 20, 2024 00:42 |
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So do any transmutation forms preserve Jiyva mutations or other gross physical changes like scales or bone plates? Does Statue Form?
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Nov 20, 2015 13:46
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Give Tier-1 demons a new homequote:Give Tier-1 demons a new home
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Nov 20, 2015 13:58
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Uhhh.... making jokes here Floodkiller?
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Nov 20, 2015 14:09
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I do think Zot is the most boring part of the late game, though I really like depths and vaults as is. I don't think eliminating Zot in some way is inherently a bad idea, but it could have pretty wacky game balance repercussions regarding XP gain. Increasing xp gained in vaults and depths could make acquiring the orb much too easy (A character ready to clear Zot 5 could have a level 9 spell without sacrificing too much from defense, but a character casting firestorm on vaults 5 is usually pretty squishy). With no change at all, the orb level is vaults 5 difficulty, it could make it hard for some characters to get ready for extended. The game is too long, but I'm not sure the end game is the worst offender. I still think it drags too much in the mid game and that lair, orc and even lair branches could stand to be shorter and more dense. Extended is a huge slog, especially for what amounts to a very long victory lap for most of the characters that do it. I wish those areas would be shortened before anything else.
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Nov 20, 2015 15:14
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The annoying dog can now spawn during the orb run and snatch the orb
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Nov 20, 2015 15:28
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Ah, good. Now we can get an excellent variety of the demonic variety of torment and hellfire and smiting and summoners... with all the other tormenting, hellfiring, smiting, and summoning enemies. Maybe the suggestion to merge zot and vaults has already begun...
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Nov 20, 2015 15:37
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You people are nuts; Zot is probably the most tense and interesting part of the core dungeon layout outside Vaults:5. There's a good amount of enemy variety, some VERY heavy hitters, a wide range of hazards and enemy attack types to prepare for, and a spawn density that lands comfortably in the range of "stealth is still really useful and viable but if poo poo starts to go wrong, it has the potential to go REALLY wrong unless you slow down and think." I completely 100% agree about removing Death Cobs though; they are Quite lovely right now and were never especially interesting. Alternatively, give them spooky undead plant summoning abilities so they can play the area denial game by randomly farting walls of petrified plants behind the player, wasting critical time while they and other nearby enemies close in  On a related note, I just 4-runed. I'd have gone for more but I'm in the middle of a move and work is nuts right now. Still, I ogrecame at least once this tournament, so I'll take it! Ash trip report: Ashenzari is really, really good throughout the game, but you definitely have to go all-in and embrace their curse bonuses. They'll do very little for you in the early game if you hedge your bets and try to retain the ability to swap resistances etc.; you have to commit to Making It Work with the items you choose to wear, and once you do that, Ash makes it much easier by giving you sweet-rear end skill bonuses. Scrying is absurdly useful and convenient, and passive ranged partial Identification is great; Ash also tells you what ranged weapons and stuff enemies are carrying, which is great for choosing the terms of engagement and making informed tactical decisions. Passive Clarity and sInv rule, and help to ease the strain of spreading your core resistances over cursed, non-easily swappable items. All in all, Ashenzari is a very unusual but very good god, offering unusually little in the way of offensive or defensive boosts, but granting the opportunity to get ahead of the experience curve and providing an unparalleled ability to plan ahead and carefully assemble an effective strategy using limited resources. Ash turned out to be awesome as hell for my Ogre, since I found gently caress-all good equipment and basically had to furiously bullshit my way through everything (I did Slime without rCorr and Zot with only rF+, and switched to Statue Form for rElec, which caused me to have no rF  ). Being able to examine the map layout and remotely assess the enemy types and concentrations made Zot infinitely more doable with what I had. In conclusion, six out of six stars, very good god, will use again.
Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 15:48
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Make them summon maize rows instead.
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Nov 20, 2015 15:54
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Sage Grimm posted:Make them summon maize rows instead. Make them fairly unremarkable enemies for the most part, but if they're hit with fire damage, they loudly explode into a large group of (extremely fire-resistant) Death Popcorn monsters that are fast but much more fragile and hit moderately hard. Watch people freeze and slowly back away when they encounter an OoF and a Death Cob in the same room
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Nov 20, 2015 16:01
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Instead of ditching deathcobs entirely a la singularity, why don't we A) reduce the hunger attack or B) do what angry diplomat suggests and make them into a tactical threat rather than a "gently caress you, hope you've got a scroll of blinking" check? I like the idea of smacking them spawning mini-cobs that can surround you, making them kind of like little Royal Jellies.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:05
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Angry Diplomat posted:Make them fairly unremarkable enemies for the most part, but if they're hit with fire damage, they loudly explode into a large group of (extremely fire-resistant) Death Popcorn monsters that are fast but much more fragile and hit moderately hard. Watch people freeze and slowly back away when they encounter an OoF and a Death Cob in the same room This is actually an amazing idea. Every time they are hit by fire, or potentially near a fire source (if that's trackable?) they spawn literal popcorn enemies off of them, kinda like reverse slime creature.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:14
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Sage Grimm posted:Uhhh.... making jokes here Floodkiller? I think it may need some refactoring. Also, thirding death popcorn.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:25
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Lasty is going to respond to this criticism of his Death Cobs by making their hunger attacks corrosive too
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Nov 20, 2015 16:34
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apple posted:Yeah, I was deinitely hoping for an early statue form book, I guess I should look into more low level defensive skills. A frail felid.  So do you even have double-digit HP?
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Nov 20, 2015 16:38
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Ferrinus posted:So do any transmutation forms preserve Jiyva mutations or other gross physical changes like scales or bone plates? Does Statue Form? If anyone's wondering, it turns out that statue form does NOT erase my unique jiyva mutations, so I guess I've found this neko's destiny.
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Nov 20, 2015 17:45
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Setec_Astronomy posted:[*]It removes the abusable Zig entrance from the part of the game where it is most abusable, instead turning it into a possible pre-extended loot gamble. If your problem's the 1% of the time you get something good from 'safe' zigging, it already has a counterbalance: Players overestimating how deep they can safely go, and the chance of getting a dangerous floor(early pan lord/mummy floors can still be terrifying). quote:It makes Vaults:5 -- the current most fun/challenging floor in the late game, IMO -- into the climax of the base game. Heithinn Grasida posted:The game is too long, but I'm not sure the end game is the worst offender. I still think it drags too much in the mid game and that lair, orc and even lair branches could stand to be shorter and more dense. Extended is a huge slog, especially for what amounts to a very long victory lap for most of the characters that do it. I wish those areas would be shortened before anything else. Tweaking extended is much easier because nobody gives a poo poo if you remove a bunch of XP from hells or pan. 
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Nov 20, 2015 17:53
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Had my best game EVAR last night. 2 runes in, cleared a ton of areas. Got into Depths and the overall lack of healing I experienced all game + losing my healing mutation finally caught up with me, and I ate a fireball (even with MR+++) to explodey. 471940 shinino the Blinker (level 24, -17/144 HPs) Began as a Gargoyle Fighter on Nov 19, 2015. Was a High Priest of Qazlal. Killed from afar by a fire giant (46 damage) ... with a fireball ... on level 2 of the Depths on Nov 20, 2015. The game lasted 04:54:39 (42500 turns). shinino the Blinker (Gargoyle Fighter) Turns: 42500, Time: 04:54:39 Health: -17/144 AC: 47 Str: 30 XL: 24 Next: 69% Magic: 48/50 EV: 18 Int: 10 God: Qazlal [*****.] Gold: 4678 SH: 10 Dex: 20 Spells: 8 memorised, 8 levels left rFire . . . SeeInvis + A - +9 great mace "Ilekkich" {freeze, *Rage rC+ rN+++ Dex+4} rCold + + + Rnd*Rage + s - +2 plate armour {rPois} rNeg + + + SustAt + (shield currently unavailable) rPois ∞ Gourm . o - +0 mask of the Dragon {MR+ Slay+3 SInv} rElec + Spirit . m - +2 cloak rCorr . Warding . F - +0 pair of gloves rMut . Rnd*Tele + i - +2 pair of boots "Jivoteg" {MR+ Int+2} MR +++.. l - amulet of regeneration Stlth +......... P - ring of Birdsong {rC+ MP+9 Str+4} f - ring of sustain attributes @: exhausted, about to teleport, protected from physical damage, flying, repel missiles, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, very unstealthy A: big wings, beak, talons 1, icy blue scales 1, large bone plates 2, cold resistance 1, deformed body, high mp 1, negative energy resistance 1, sense surroundings 1, shaggy fur 1, electricity resistance, teleportitis 1, unbreathing, petrification resistance, rot immunity, MP-powered wands, AC +17 a: Stop Flying, Upheaval, Elemental Force, Disaster Area, Renounce Religion }: 2/15 runes: decaying, gossamer You were on level 2 of the Depths. You worshipped Qazlal. Qazlal was extremely pleased with you. You were not hungry. You visited 10 branches of the dungeon, and saw 46 of its levels. You visited the Abyss 1 time. You also visited: Ice Cave. You collected 6124 gold pieces. You spent 1446 gold pieces at shops.
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Nov 20, 2015 18:26
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Unfortunately MR does nothing on enemy AI deciding if and what spells to cast. Only rF+ would have been useful to switch to in this case, it would have halved the damage received from the fireball.
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Nov 20, 2015 18:40
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Shinino Kage posted:Had my best game EVAR last night. 2 runes in, cleared a ton of areas. Got into Depths and the overall lack of healing I experienced all game + losing my healing mutation finally caught up with me, and I ate a fireball (even with MR+++) to explodey. Just so you know, MR is your chance to resist spells that indirectly hurt you with status effects (confuse, paralyze, sentinel's mark, slow...), but does nothing on direct damage, with the logic you're not resisting magic any more. Now you're dealing with a big honkin' ball of fire, even if it was created by magic. You need resistance to fire (rF+) to cut that type of damage. Same with ice, electricity, and negative energy. ZeeToo fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 18:43
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Okay... apparently ripped off part of a fingernail (#4 left) so commands that require [shift] are even more annoying than usual right now, so it's time to drink too much coffee and remap some keys. One problem though: Is there some way to disable vi_keys without breaking [tab] functionality?
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Nov 20, 2015 20:09
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Im a mummy Ice Mentalist but i'm going to wield the Obsidian Axe anyway !!!! E; *walks downstairs into pack of death yaks* *reads uncurse* heard u like girls fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 21:30
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ZeeToo posted:A frail felid. I think I cleared Lair with HP in the 50's  I've been training fighting obviously.I just want more purple to eat *gets frail 3*
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Nov 20, 2015 21:52
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Zot is a lot more interesting when you get the floors that are mainly made up of unique vaults rather than randomly generated ones. Personally I think that should always be the case. Well, aside from the corrosion one. That one is super annoying.
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Nov 21, 2015 00:52
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Unless I get stuck with a vault floor that locks away the down staircases, I almost never see much of Zot 1-4 anymore. It's kind of like Hell in that there's no compelling reason to do anything except the bottom floor. At most, I might clear all of the down staircases on 4 just to make sure I have a safe up from 5, but otherwise it's mostly read Magic Mapping (or explore if I don't have it), get to nearest down staircase, repeat.
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Nov 21, 2015 00:57
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Any time I'm not going for extended I just dive Depths and Zot. Generally by the time I have three runes my offense is about as good as its going to be, and the offchance of getting a new piece of gear is much lower than me loving up and dying in depths.
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Nov 21, 2015 01:02
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cheetah7071 posted:Any time I'm not going for extended I just dive Depths and Zot. Generally by the time I have three runes my offense is about as good as its going to be, and the offchance of getting a new piece of gear is much lower than me loving up and dying in depths. I usually do depths before V:5 because Depths is a massive pile of experience and V:5 is one of the only non-extended places that feels like it can kill a prepared character once you reach that point of the game. Other third rune options (slime and abyss mainly) are threatening if you aren't set up for them, but I always feel like I could lose just about any game in V:5.
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Nov 21, 2015 01:15
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"Alright, time to do Swam-"
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Nov 21, 2015 02:22
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cheetah7071 posted:Any time I'm not going for extended I just dive Depths and Zot. Generally by the time I have three runes my offense is about as good as its going to be, and the offchance of getting a new piece of gear is much lower than me loving up and dying in depths. Maybe this is part of why I'm a bad player, but I usually try to clear out depths and zot on the way down regardless so I have less risk when coming back up with the orb. Running into a nasty Pan lord is way less scary when I can read teleport or turn around and head for a different exit without worrying about turning a corner into a Lich or Death Cob...
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Nov 21, 2015 02:23
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Steam checks rF and is totally negated if you have one rank. this is out of date. rF = rSteam = 1/3rd steam damage. it's impossible to get more than one point of rSteam, but you can have negative steam resistance, which means you take more damage. steam does so little damage in most contexts that this is essentially only relevant against merfolk aquamancers. Sage Grimm posted:Unfortunately MR does nothing on enemy AI deciding if and what spells to cast. technically false; monsters with above-animal-level intelligence are less likely to cast certain hexes against targets that have high magic resistance. doesn't help wrt fireball, ofc. VERY good choice of commit...
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Nov 21, 2015 02:29
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PleasingFungus posted:this is out of date. rF = rSteam = 1/3rd steam damage. it's impossible to get more than one point of rSteam, but you can have negative steam resistance, which means you take more damage. Does Steam Dragon Armour give rSteam without giving rF+, or does it just give no resists?
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Nov 21, 2015 03:53
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Not My Leg posted:Does Steam Dragon Armour give rSteam without giving rF+...? Yep. Sorry, I should have said something like rF -> rSteam to be clear.
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Nov 21, 2015 03:57
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Nothing like finding the Book of Necromancy, the Book of Death, and the Necronomicon all within an hour... as a SpEn of Gozag.  I might get some use out of Regeneration I guess, but drat Crawl, you're quite the comedian.
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Nov 21, 2015 04:16
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So now you get Gozag and Kiku. Agony, dispel undead, borg's, ddoor are all solid, you could make it work...
Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 04:27
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Any advice on which armour I should be wearing? GrMo of Ru with no real hopes of casting anything but utility spells, btw (although if I ever find Blade Hands...) The extra AC from the CPA is very nice, but that +6 Slay on the ring mail gives me serious pause. http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Pinechild/Pinechild.txt code:
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Nov 21, 2015 05:05
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Honestly your best choices are the ring mail for the Slay bonus or the CPA for the rC++ and I guess the AC as the icing on the cake. The rest don't provide meaningful bonuses and you have enough in both Armour and Dodging that moving to something lighter isn't going to ruin your defenses.
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Nov 21, 2015 05:11
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Locke Dunnegan posted:Nothing like finding the Book of Necromancy, the Book of Death, and the Necronomicon all within an hour... as a SpEn of Gozag. Edit: Just got Ascetic III (get a non-Slime/Abyssal rune without using scrolls or potions)!  I picked SpEn as the combo for it since the starting book can handle almost every monster up to the end of Lair and a bit more, and Sp have the speed to escape anything. I went with Nemelex as the good to get kill buttons for anything I had to fight on the way to the rune. I was hoping to get at least one of Spider/Swamp; Spider is extremely easy for an enchanter as the real threats are tarantellas (no curing), ghost moths (no invis potion), and emperor scorpions (difficult to hex), and Swamp is easier to handle than Snake. Sadly I got Snake and Shoals, so I went with Shoals for my rune since the Book of Burglary dropped for Invisibility and Darkness. I had to abandon the first visit to Shoals:4 as Mara and Ilsuiw both spawned on the rune floor, but thankfully on the second attempt I found the rune quickly. A very intense challenge, especially if you don't scum for lucky drops...Edit: Died later to a cloud of thunder rolling 100 damage and one-shotting me from full health.  I knew thunder clouds were strong, but I didn't expect that much damage...
Can Of Worms fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 05:24
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apple posted:"Alright, time to do Swam-" Dang. But Roxanne can't see invisible and has a chance of dropping Statue Form if you fancy your luck.
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Nov 21, 2015 09:24
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I mentioned I had no luck on the new version, but then I got drunk meeting my cousin at the airport when he came back from his honeymoon and then I had a FoFi who found armor of the dragon king in a Labyrinth in D12 and an easy treasure vault on D14 (+5 demon blade which I was holding), so I was obviously missing the secret. Be drunk and everything will work out.
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Nov 21, 2015 12:07
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| # ? May 20, 2024 00:42 |
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I read these achievement-sounding things recently, and I've never heard of them before. Where do I see them?
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Nov 21, 2015 16:14
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