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Loiosh
Jul 25, 2010

Aramoro posted:

Sorry to hear about your brain problems.

Uh, 'k

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G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

CrazyLoon posted:

I have to ask since I keep seeing this pop up, is this the new fad in America atm, which is somehow supposed to absolve you of all criticism of racism?
It's not that new, though more and more Americans are claiming it because, I dunno, it makes you feel more American?

What's more interesting in this case is that Sandi isn't American. She's Australian and of Native American descent. Which is a lot harder to pull off.

G0RF fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Nov 20, 2015

IrvingWashington
Dec 9, 2007

Shabbat Shalom
Clapping Larry
Someone in a stream early this morning told me something along the lines of:

quote:

I believe in them [CIG]
If they waste my money, I'll give them more

I don't understand these people

RuckusRouser
Sep 28, 2015

Theres a lot of close ups of landing gear

"ezgunna: sc is gonna change the game industry forever and I cant believe there is still people talking poo poo about it smh"

Berious
Nov 13, 2005


Mom can't make you tidy your room in the verse

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010



IrvingWashington posted:

Someone in a stream early this morning told me something along the lines of:


I don't understand these people

Not a cult

Berious
Nov 13, 2005

IrvingWashington posted:

Someone in a stream early this morning told me something along the lines of:


I don't understand these people

Shameful. Even Scientologists believe if they spend enough they get to shoot lasers out of their eyes or whatever.

Loiosh
Jul 25, 2010

Berious posted:

Shameful. Even Scientologists believe if they spend enough they get to shoot lasers out of their eyes or whatever.

Man, why does Tom Cruise have to be one? :(

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...
To be fair lots of whities claim Native blood because *gasp* they have native blood

But it's like so insignificant and culturally they are completely unaware. It's just like oh hey I have native mblood cuz my great great great grandfather from Germany had no game and bought a tribal girl for some beads and a rifle

Aramoro
Jun 1, 2012





I'm actually curious, you're interested in a Eurotruck Simulator in space, your husband is interested in mining. What have you actually seen which makes you think either of these things will be possible in Star Citizen, not what they've said but what you've seen. Because you say you like what you see but I'm not sure where that is in the game.

You say you want to do passenger transport, which is obviously just going to be NPC's because all PC's have spaceships. I'm trying to wrap my head around why that is specifically more interesting than hauling boxes of tea or space junk. Is it just conceptually more interesting?

CrazyLoon
Aug 10, 2015

"..."

G0RF posted:

It's not that new, though more and more Americans are claiming it because, I dunno, it makes you feel more American?

What's more interesting in this case is that Sandi isn't American. She's Australian and of Native American descent. Which is a lot harder to pull off.

Well, I suppose that kind of pointless pride is still preferable to this attitude with something like this.

Danknificent
Nov 20, 2015

Jinkies! Looks like we've got a mystery on our hands.

IrvingWashington posted:

I don't understand these people

Roberts is offering an impressive vision. People with more information and context understand that vision isn't realistic. People without it are deeply impressed, and seduced by the possibilities of this brave new gaming world.

But forget the money, forget crazy Sandi, forget the toxic community, mismanagement, Gary Oldman, all those shenanigans -- just look at the balance challenges presented by the stuff Roberts has on paper. It's not achievable.

But convincing people who are already deeply sunk costed into it... that's not achievable either. Not anytime soon, at any rate.

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

Decrepus
May 21, 2008

In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.



That is the penmanship of a grown man.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004
Exciting Lemon

G0RF posted:

Meanwhile, on the Merchandise front, a fan tries to gently shame Sandi into using his better solution for Star Citizen swag.

This guy's merch looks better and would deliver faster than CIG's China solution (whether they did an outsourcing contract or licensing one). That CIG should do this or something like this has been obvious forever-- and yet...

...he took to reddit to try to get Sandi to pull the trigger- even putting out a poll titled "Getting Star Citizen Better Merchandise".

Personally, I think he just torpedoed his chances (and fan hopes). Quantifying fan dissatisfaction with CIG's crap solution does not seem a smart way to curry favor with someone who prizes loyalty above all other traits and expends enormous effort projecting an image of marketing competence.

That dozens chimed in excited about his proposal will likely be seen as an act of mass insubordination, further dooming the chances this better solution will see the light of day...

Oh well-- we'll always have China.

Beer Citizen? Sold.

Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

Pretty handwriting is a dumb thing to be proud of.

Fried Watermelon
Dec 29, 2008


The best part of this entire saga will be when they shut off the game servers and people lose their thousands of dollars of jpeg investments

Loiosh
Jul 25, 2010

Aramoro posted:

I'm actually curious, you're interested in a Eurotruck Simulator in space, your husband is interested in mining. What have you actually seen which makes you think either of these things will be possible in Star Citizen, not what they've said but what you've seen. Because you say you like what you see but I'm not sure where that is in the game.

You say you want to do passenger transport, which is obviously just going to be NPC's because all PC's have spaceships. I'm trying to wrap my head around why that is specifically more interesting than hauling boxes of tea or space junk. Is it just conceptually more interesting?

I'm not really interested in Eurotruck Simulator in Space. They've documented their expectations here: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14804-Design-Civilian-Passenger-Transport - Of course, none of this is in, so I won't be doing any of it for awhile (assuming the game ever comes out, of course).

If you're curious, it's pretty similar to what I had in FSX with PMDG + FS2Crew. FS2Crew is basically a passenger's are annoying whiny children mod. You have to deal with incidents, entertainment issues, passengers getting sick and the rare emergency diversion. It adds a bit of entertainment to simulator flying. Combine all that with the VATSIM and you have something that's more than Eurotruck Simulator. For those who don't know, VATSIM is a network of volunteer Air Traffic controllers and pilots, all flying together connected in a single multiplayer session. You have actual pilots and real ATC (and volunteers) who are showing what real flight operations are like. So it kinda spices up what is generally a pretty mundane task.

Eventually after a few years I got tired of that because there's only so many times I can do KDFW to KORD in one of those beautiful PMDG planes. I wanted Airbus, but for some reason they've never made one, and Boeing's never been my thing.

Now days people are moving to Prepare3d, so I've been keeping my eye on that while trying out whatever new space thing comes around and supporting various kickstarters.

Tank Boy Ken
Aug 24, 2012
J4G for life
Fallen Rib

Loiosh posted:



He wasn't building this initially. Their initial plan was to make Freelancer MMO, basically. A small team of about 20-50, working for 2 years. It's after they hit the crazy funding on the website they decided to expand the scope. Now, as to why he cannot even guess at a delivery date, that I have no idea about. Of course, this thread was started by the king of Delivery Date failure, so it's not like it's a unique problem. Heck, see all the delays for games this year (Deus Ex just announced they're delayed again). Missing deliveries is kinda a shrug from me.

Honestly, some things I'd like to see get another year, like Batman: Arkham Knight. I got that with my video card. :/

So help me out. Since they just converted to 64 bit (and this is still cause a couple of issues). They basically have just started the development of the real SC (expanded scope). And are now ~ 1 year into development. Thus (your guess) it would be 3-4 more years until SC will release ?
Even at "only" 20 mill funding per year, that would be 60 to 80 mill more.

Tank Boy Ken fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Nov 20, 2015

BMan
Oct 31, 2015

KNIIIIIIFE
EEEEEYYYYE
ATTAAAACK


Loiosh posted:

So this is a little misunderstanding. I don't believe button pushing is compelling gameplay for me. I did like it when I was accurately simulating Apollo craft and Boeing Airplanes because that's what existed, but for the future, I would like more of that to be controlled by a computer. There's really no benefit to having humans do manual start ups that take 10 minutes to get going. I like the potential depth of a complex system simulation, without requiring manual start ups. I like troubleshooting problems, but like computer-assisted checklists and repair. Most modern aircraft, like the 777 and A380, are intelligent enough to at least offer the checklist to the pilots in case of failures or issues. Spending 10 minutes doing a cold-start is not that interesting to me.

I'm not saying Rogue System is wrong or bad. It's cool! it's just not what I'm looking for. I'm more into something like Enemy Starfighter.

Well, an AI to push the buttons for you is listed as one of the features in Rogue System. I don't follow the game though so I'm not sure if that is in the alpha yet.

Ragequit
Jun 1, 2006


Lipstick Apathy

Decrepus posted:

That is the penmanship of a grown man.

Flower shops will often write those cards/notes for you, especially so if it's being delivered.

Madcosby
Mar 4, 2003

by FactsAreUseless
From cart videos, I've never seen more than 3 people online at once. How many people does this support? How do you log into a place with multiple people? Does one person host an instance and others invited/join or is there a community hub and how many people have been in it at once?

Loiosh
Jul 25, 2010

Tank Boy Ken posted:

So help me out. Since they just converted to 64 bit (and this is still cause a couple of issues). They basically have just started the development of the real SC (expanded scope). And are now ~ 1 year into development. Thus (your guess) it would be 3-4 more years until SC will release ?
Even at "only" 20 mill funding per year, that would be 60 to 80 mill more.

My guess would be 1 more year (So, 2017) before you'd see the first alpha of what would be an SC MMO. Which would be about 5 years after 2012. Most here like to count 2011 as the start date, so let's say 6 years then. That's about what I would guess, 2017.

Loiosh
Jul 25, 2010

BMan posted:

Well, an AI to push the buttons for you is listed as one of the features in Rogue System. I don't follow the game though so I'm not sure if that is in the alpha yet.

It's not yet, at least of the last update. I might have missed something in the last month. He did add docking in, so you can do docking with a station and undocking. What'll be great is when they do ship-to-ship docking. The first mission in I-War 1 was one of my favorites, where you had to dock with a cargo crate that was rotating. Always loved that.

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

Madcosby posted:

From cart videos, I've never seen more than 3 people online at once. How many people does this support?

They're slowly working up towards 1.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta

Danknificent posted:

Roberts is offering an impressive vision. People with more information and context understand that vision isn't realistic. People without it are deeply impressed, and seduced by the possibilities of this brave new gaming world.

Sums it up nicely. Loiosh I'm surprised that as an engineer you don't see the GLARING issues with the concept. I'm a lowly web developer and it's always been immediately obvious to me that they have no chance of implementing even a fraction of the promised scope.

Aramoro
Jun 1, 2012




Loiosh posted:

I'm not really interested in Eurotruck Simulator in Space. They've documented their expectations here: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14804-Design-Civilian-Passenger-Transport - Of course, none of this is in, so I won't be doing any of it for awhile (assuming the game ever comes out, of course).

If you're curious, it's pretty similar to what I had in FSX with PMDG + FS2Crew. FS2Crew is basically a passenger's are annoying whiny children mod. You have to deal with incidents, entertainment issues, passengers getting sick and the rare emergency diversion. It adds a bit of entertainment to simulator flying. Combine all that with the VATSIM and you have something that's more than Eurotruck Simulator. For those who don't know, VATSIM is a network of volunteer Air Traffic controllers and pilots, all flying together connected in a single multiplayer session. You have actual pilots and real ATC (and volunteers) who are showing what real flight operations are like. So it kinda spices up what is generally a pretty mundane task.

Eventually after a few years I got tired of that because there's only so many times I can do KDFW to KORD in one of those beautiful PMDG planes. I wanted Airbus, but for some reason they've never made one, and Boeing's never been my thing.

Now days people are moving to Prepare3d, so I've been keeping my eye on that while trying out whatever new space thing comes around and supporting various kickstarters.

So how can you say you like what you've seen, when you've not seen anything which matches your vision in anyway at all?

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI5xc8JCazI

Finally, a gameplay video we were waiting for.

stuxracer
May 4, 2006

We know at least 2 people can connect to the same space with that eject another pilot bug.

Maybe a whole 5 people in a space thousands of light years across. Sounds like a good game.

OWLS!
Sep 17, 2009

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

revmoo posted:

Sums it up nicely. Loiosh I'm surprised that as an engineer you don't see the GLARING issues with the concept. I'm a lowly web developer and it's always been immediately obvious to me that they have no chance of implementing even a fraction of the promised scope.

:smuggo: That's because you're just a lowly code monkey, you don't have VISION like an ENGINEER.

Loiosh
Jul 25, 2010

Aramoro posted:

So how can you say you like what you've seen, when you've not seen anything which matches your vision in anyway at all?

You're kinda mistaking two different concepts. I like the progression that I've seen (and detailed in a long post) as the engine has been worked on. That's what I mean when I say I like what I've seen.

The second concept is I like the potential - Which I have not seen in game. It's an interesting idea for a game, and that's what I decided to support. It's why I didn't support the original kickstarter. That was basically Evochron Mercury but more, which was not something I was interested in having given Evochron Mercury a go a few times. I kinda got bored of cleaning solar panels.

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

Loiosh posted:

My guess would be 1 more year (So, 2017) before you'd see the first alpha of what would be an SC MMO. Which would be about 5 years after 2012. Most here like to count 2011 as the start date, so let's say 6 years then. That's about what I would guess, 2017.

I thought they said specifically that they're not making an mmo but rather a very elaborate lobby system around separate instances? They referred to games like battlefield where your account progression is saved but there is no single version of any one map.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010



Chalks posted:

I thought they said specifically that they're not making an mmo but rather a very elaborate lobby system around separate instances? They referred to games like battlefield where your account progression is saved but there is no single version of any one map.

Anything else would be impossible but they've also been calling "persistent universe" and not semi persistent instances.

OWLS!
Sep 17, 2009

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Loiosh posted:

the original kickstarter. That was basically Evochron Mercury but more, which was not something I was interested in having given Evochron Mercury a go a few times. I kinda got bored of cleaning solar panels.

Why do you think this would ever be any different?

(Also the original kickstarter was for basically Wing Commander whatever, I don't know where people are getting "Deep Space Sim" from)

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Anything else would be impossible but they've also been calling "persistent universe" and not semi persistent instances.

Well they've also called it the best drat space sim ever but it won't be that either.

The reason I say this about the "MMO" aspect is because of this really interesting article by the lead developer of Ascent:

quote:

However, at no point (that I know of), has Cloud Imperium actually called Star Citizen an MMO. MMO-like and persistent universe imply many of the same things, but hopefully, for the sake of the game, not all of them.

What I think Star Citizen will do is not stretch itself to try to meet all of the usual MMO expectations — only those that fit the game’s core design. The amount of content will be large, but limited. To balance this, it will be of extreme quality, something no MMO universally achieves with all of its content. Think Skyrim vs. Elder Scrolls Online, but picture what ESO could’ve been if Bethsoft had stepped back from the “MMO” cliff and just said, “You can play Skyrim with your friends, trade stuff in towns with everyone else playing at the time, and even join big battles against boss dragons!” Or, you know, a better compromise design that took more than 10 seconds to come up with, something that combined the best of both worlds, and only where the advantage was to the end product.

“More than multi-player” does not have to mean “leveling and upgrade treadmill with a raiding endgame.”

The important thing to understand, is that to meets its scope as described, Star Citizen doesn’t have to cast itself bodily into the MMO abyss. Its various modules can have differing levels of multi-player elements, as appropriate to their design and where it benefits the end product. SQ42 and Star Marine could have limited, instanced co-op and/or PvP battles, with the PU acting essentially as a (mind-blowingly beautiful and immersive) lobby for them, allowing you to “zoom in” to the battles — a model that has worked beautifully in many other games. Only the PU’s property database needs to be necessarily unified and slugged with the crazy bank-like data storage and locking/transaction requirements. Planetside can be instanced and sharded to keep costs down and frame-rates up. This alone is complex enough!

http://massivelyop.com/2015/10/21/ascents-lead-dev-offers-insight-on-the-star-citizen-controversy/

blueberrysmith
May 4, 2006

Dirty Sanchez

Paladinus posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI5xc8JCazI

Finally, a gameplay video we were waiting for.

Hot drat. I've got some disposable income to throw at this. Maybe they can offer me a jpeg of a custom robot dog?

stuxracer
May 4, 2006

Haha even the space station has the shakes

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eonwe
Aug 11, 2008



Lipstick Apathy
Karl is the most mentally ill person that has ever posted about Star Citizen on SA

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