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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, I think Orga is going to either die or end up estranged from Mika. Or they could kiss.
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Nov 21, 2015 01:54
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I think, and hope, everybody will still be together in the end. 
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Nov 21, 2015 02:00
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Show's already headed for the everybody gets to kiss ending These guys are just the warmup. Everything Burrito fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 02:02
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Everything Burrito posted:Or they could kiss. Orga will have to get in line.
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Nov 21, 2015 02:02
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ImpAtom posted:Orga will have to get in line.
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Nov 21, 2015 02:56
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Everything Burrito posted:Show's already headed for the everybody gets to kiss ending this was a really neat scene and if IBO was the first gundam with a gay romance that would be really cool.
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Nov 21, 2015 03:13
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Droyer posted:this was a really neat scene and if IBO was the first gundam with a gay romance that would be really cool. Well, yeah. It's always satisfying when a show moves beyond queerbaiting to actual romance. The pessimist in me is already anticipating a tragic, one-sided crush, though. Has Okada done much/any overt LGBT stuff in her other shows?
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Nov 21, 2015 03:17
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Darth Walrus posted:Well, yeah. It's always satisfying when a show moves beyond queerbaiting to actual romance. The pessimist in me is already anticipating a tragic, one-sided crush, though. There's a bisexual character in Toradora but she doesn't end up with anyone by the end of the show.
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Nov 21, 2015 03:19
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She worked on the anime adaptation of Wandering Son and uh.... Simoun.
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Nov 21, 2015 03:20
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Droyer posted:this was a really neat scene and if IBO was the first gundam with a gay romance that would be really cool. Well there's still Turn A Gundam as well, though it's entirely one-sided there. In fact I don't think I really like how its handled at all in that show, though that's a discussion for the main Gundam thread. IBO certainly seems to be a healthier take, and hopefully they actually characterize these guys in upcoming episodes.
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Nov 21, 2015 03:37
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BlitzBlast posted:It's Gundam. The entire franchise is quite literally built on using similar motifs and character concepts to try and tell different stories. Trying to see how this show is deciding to handle that stuff doesn't make you some mouth breathing moron who can't appreciate unique stories (or whatever the hell Srice is trying to imply with their never ending Gundam is scarcely alone when it comes to franchises built around overarching themes, motifs, and patterns, but there are better ways to discuss those things without sounding like you're checking off a box on a list.
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Nov 21, 2015 04:06
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Everything Burrito posted:Or they could kiss. Orga is going to kiss biscuit instead.
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Nov 21, 2015 05:06
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Biscuit is gonna score some sweet Jovian rear end.
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Nov 21, 2015 05:12
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Bad Seafood posted:You seem to be taking the suggestion that maybe something won't happen just because "It must" oddly personally and I'm not gonna lie it's kinda weird. I could basically say the same thing to this: Srice posted:Perhaps the show will not engage in mecha trope bingo, and not have any ~mid season upgrade~ outside of new weapons they scavenge. Srice posted:Heck I suppose with fans clamoring for mecha cliches to happen, that's not helping matters either......... Srice posted:I agree that it's not slavishly following them but heck that doesn't stop the bingo game here. because nobody in the thread is even posting like that (or at least not for the last seven pages or so), so as far as I can tell it came up in response to people wondering what the midseason upgrade would be. Which happened because we got shots of future designs from a recent toy show, so naturally people are curious. Referring to something as mild as that as "clamoring for mecha cliches" or as playing mecha bingo is absurd, and honestly comes across to me as "oh look at you people watching the show wrong  ".
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Nov 21, 2015 07:11
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I like the robot. War is bad.
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Nov 21, 2015 14:17
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keep the toys in the gunpla thread imo
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Nov 21, 2015 14:52
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dogsicle posted:keep the toys in the gunpla thread imo I disagree. Stuff about assembly and kit quality, sure, but kit previews are also tools for plot speculation, and since mechanical designs are a key part of a mecha show's aesthetics and visual storytelling, it's fun to chat about those.
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Nov 21, 2015 16:30
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Droyer posted:this was a really neat scene and if IBO was the first gundam with a gay romance that would be really cool. I just realized the way I phrased that other post might have sounded dismissive of them, and it wasn't meant to be at all. Shipping jokes aside, I really do hope those guys (whose names I did look up but don't remember at the moment) get to be boyfriends without being used for some sort of pathos. I think there's really enough heavy poo poo going down around them that it would be nice if they were allowed to be happy -- rather than foreshadowing tragedy I'd rather their relationship be used as something hopeful. Thinking about that in general, I see the characters moving forward out of a really dark and terrible place toward something better, and the conflict ahead of them being more of a struggle against the societal and political forces trying to keep them in their original place vs needing to have a lot of really dramatic internal conflict to shake things up. I think it's natural for the group to disagree at times about how to proceed but anticipating a big split between Orga and Mika just doesn't sit well with me. If there is something like that I think it would be temporary and end up with them back together with a stronger & more equal partnership. I don't think Mika needs to surpass Orga, he just needs to stand beside him instead of following. Everything Burrito fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 19:28
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Darth Walrus posted:I disagree. Stuff about assembly and kit quality, sure, but kit previews are also tools for plot speculation, and since mechanical designs are a key part of a mecha show's aesthetics and visual storytelling, it's fun to chat about those. wrt aesthetics and visual storytelling, those are probably things that can be discussed when the show actually reveals/uses the designs, rather than them showing up at a hobby expo. i dunno if they really lend much to speculation chat, but to each their own. Everything Burrito posted:I just realized the way I phrased that other post might have sounded dismissive of them, and it wasn't meant to be at all. Shipping jokes aside, I really do hope those guys (whose names I did look up but don't remember at the moment) get to be boyfriends without being used for some sort of pathos. I think there's really enough heavy poo poo going down around them that it would be nice if they were allowed to be happy -- rather than foreshadowing tragedy I'd rather their relationship be used as something hopeful. this is a great post, and i agree that i'd like to see the show move towards the optimistic goals it's setting, with things like the kids becoming literate or whoever it was (Mika?) that wanted to own a farm. however it happens, the Mika/Orga dynamic definitely needs reworking though.
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Nov 21, 2015 19:55
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Hey, maybe Orga gets some character development and stops being such a crazy person when it comes to Mika. Why not?
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Nov 21, 2015 20:29
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Serious Frolicking posted:Hey, maybe Orga gets some character development and stops being such a crazy person when it comes to Mika. Why not? Yeah I think there should be some adjustments on both sides; there's no reason Orga should be static while Mika does all the growing.
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Nov 21, 2015 20:38
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Personally I'm more interested in how Biscuit is going to develop. He's the most together of all the main characters so far, and he's clearly not entirely happy with how things are being ran. It's doubtful he'll do anything rash (especially with his sisters counting on him), but I think he's eventually going to get sick of all of Orga's daredevilry. And of course the Gundam Gusion is right there, so he might even become a pilot.
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Nov 21, 2015 20:53
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Does Biscuit even have whiskers?
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Nov 21, 2015 20:56
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dogsicle posted:wrt aesthetics and visual storytelling, those are probably things that can be discussed when the show actually reveals/uses the designs, rather than them showing up at a hobby expo. i dunno if they really lend much to speculation chat, but to each their own. Think of 'em like trailers and character previews and it might help. Mechanical designs can give you clues about who'll be important, how long they'll be around for, and what factions will be in play. So, for instance, Gjallarhorn goes for an aristocratic, knightly aesthetic - the designers talked about it in their interview, and it's obvious in their uniforms and heraldry. So we get the Kimaris, a knight-like Gundam described as an 'enemy' by its designer. Obvious conclusion - it'll be used by Gjallarhorn. Not only that, but because it's an evil countrrpsrt to the main character 's mech, a mighty Gjallarhorn knight to face down Tekkadan's young samurai, it'll be used by an important figure in the Evil Space UN. So far, there's three of those - Ein, McGillis, and Gaelio. McGillis, the cool, talented blond ace, seems the obvious candidate (particularly by Gundam logic) to pilot such an important foe for Mikazuki, but why is it in Gaelio's colours and using his signature weapon? A way to honour his dead friend? That seems likely - Gaelio's been consistently shown to be dumber, cockier, and more aggressive than his friend, and that's a recipe for a hideously gruesome demise when Mikazuki's on the battlefield. It's possible that it's Gaelio who gets the Kimaris because of his family connections, though, and that would also be interesting - remember that the Alaya-Vijnana System was originally designed during the Calamity War for Gundam pilots, so it's the best way to get the most out of one, and then remember Not-Garma's horror st the very idea of cybernetics. What would it take for him to whisker himself up? Conversely, might McGillis end up doing something he knows his dead friend would hate in order to get revenge? See? There's a fair amount to think about here from just a lump of plastic on a shelf and a brief interview with the guy who designed it.
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Nov 21, 2015 20:56
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Gaelio dying and McGillis taking revenge, or either of them getting Whiskers both seem like reaching and/or dumb places for the show to go. that stuff seems on the same level with Biscuit piloting the Gusion, if anybody has actually been serious about that so far. that's why i'm not really interested in reading so heavily into suit designs i guess. any info from it seems pretty surface level. i think it's nice that we know of three "Gundams" and at least one is obviously an enemy unit, but it is weird to me to see, like, a pic dump in this thread of hobby expo stuff and some kits aren't even finalized. plus Kimahris and Gusion have yet to even appear in the show.
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Nov 21, 2015 21:11
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dogsicle posted:Gaelio dying and McGillis taking revenge, or either of them getting Whiskers both seem like reaching and/or dumb places for the show to go. that stuff seems on the same level with Biscuit piloting the Gusion, if anybody has actually been serious about that so far. that's why i'm not really interested in reading so heavily into suit designs i guess. any info from it seems pretty surface level. i think it's nice that we know of three "Gundams" and at least one is obviously an enemy unit, but it is weird to me to see, like, a pic dump in this thread of hobby expo stuff and some kits aren't even finalized. plus Kimahris and Gusion have yet to even appear in the show. I think it's mostly that Gaelio seems to fit very well into the profile of people for whom things end poorly when Mikazuki is around. This is not a show that has thus far rewarded his particular brand of cockiness and short temper. Couple that with an almost-certainly-Gjallarhorn Gundam in his colours, and it doesn't seem that far a stretch. An AV upgrade is taking things a little further, but it'd be surprising if our heroes never face another person with the System, given its obvious advantages (yes, I know it's stigmatised in-universe and horribly unsafe, but from an out-of-universe perspective, we all know it'd make a cool and interesting challenge to throw at Tekkadan), and while preserving it as the unique edge that lets Mikazuki overcome his more experienced, better-equipped evil counterpart would be compelling, piling it on as another advantage for McGillis and the Kimaris would both give our hero an intimidating uphill struggle that fits with Tekkadan's status as the ruthless, scrappy underdogs (there's a reason why main villains in a Gundam shows almost always have the same superpowers as the protagonist) and present done interesting possibilities for character moments for his main rival.
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Nov 21, 2015 21:50
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dogsicle posted:Gaelio dying and McGillis taking revenge, or either of them getting Whiskers both seem like reaching and/or dumb places for the show to go "An antagonist dying which motivates their ally and friend and/or an antagonist getting an upgrade that replicates the major advantage the protagonist has" are not teally reaching. They might not happen but people seem to have this bizarre idea that IBO is a show made of nothing but unpredictable shocking events and that it could never do anything so mundane as a regular mecha show and it's getting kind of silly. I don't personally buy that either will get Whiskers because it would involve a new kind of adult-installable Whisker but that isn't impossible. Biscuit piloting the Gundam seems to be based entirely around 'both are fat" though, it's true. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 22:02
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ImpAtom posted:"An antagonist dying which motivates their ally and friend and/or an antagonist getting an upgrade that replicates the major advantage the protagonist has" are not loving reaching. They might not happen but people seem to have this bizarre idea that IBO is a show made of nothing but unpredictable shocking events and that it could never do anything so mundane as a regular mecha show and it's getting kind of silly. I don't personally buy that either will get Whiskers because it would involve a new kind of adult-installable Whisker but that isn't impossible. Is the AV system confirmed to only be usable on children, or is its nature simply such that it's ideal for child soldiers (as in, they're expendable if something goes wrong, and it makes them instantly combat-ready without all that long, expensive training stuff)? Maybe I missed something, but everything I've seen so far suggested the latter, that you could get it at any age but it'd be less useful and potentially costlier if you did it to a trained adult soldier.
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Nov 21, 2015 22:13
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My understanding is that whiskers are basically only useful for a quick fix, and reminder that Mika is barely matching (and currently outmatched) by people despite 3 whisker operations. It is not remotely useful at all, outside of making an orphan off the street that can't read or write be useful.
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Nov 21, 2015 22:15
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Darth Walrus posted:Is the AV system confirmed to only be usable on children, or is its nature simply such that it's ideal for child soldiers (as in, they're expendable if something goes wrong, and it makes them instantly combat-ready without all that long, expensive training stuff)? Maybe I missed something, but everything I've seen so far suggested the latter, that you could get it at any age but it'd be less useful and potentially costlier if you did it to a trained adult soldier. The Whiskers have to be installed at a young age to properly fuse, which is why they use children. They mentioned it in one of the earlier episodes. It's part of the reason it is so disgusting because it has to be used on children. Tae posted:My understanding is that whiskers are basically only useful for a quick fix, and reminder that Mika is barely matching (and currently outmatched) by people despite 3 whisker operations. It is not remotely useful at all, outside of making an orphan off the street that can't read or write be useful. Whiskers do have an advantage. Mika is capable of piloting in a way that is as natural as moving his body and largely suffers from inexperience and an inability to adjust for the differences between piloting a robot and natural movement. Mika is almost entirely pure talent at this point, as far as we know his experience in piloting mobile suits began literally when he launched in the Gundam. An A-V pilot with experience would be a complete shitwrecker. Remember that the Gundams were designed with A-V in mind. It's absolutely supposed to be a significant advantage, just one which is horrifying and immoral and not really necessary. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 22:16
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Tae posted:My understanding is that whiskers are basically only useful for a quick fix, and reminder that Mika is barely matching (and currently outmatched) by people despite 3 whisker operations. It is not remotely useful at all, outside of making an orphan off the street that can't read or write be useful. AV is immensely useful because it lets you move in a human-like manner, giving your suit incredible reflexes and agility compared to manually-piloted suits that can only do pre-set, computer-programmed manoeuvres. McGillis specifically comments on it, and speculates that it's how the combatants in the Calamity War got the most out of their incredibly powerful suits. Mikazuki's problem is that he is a child, and while he's an unusually lethal child, he's not a trained, experienced soldier like his foes. The Barbatos may be stronger and faster than any modern suit thanks to its twin reactors, and more agile than them thanks to the AV System, but that's not all that goes into a fight. It's exactly like how Newtype kids in the latest death-machines regularly get their asses whipped by trained, experienced oldtypes in grunt-suits in other Gundam shows. That doesn't mean having Newtype psychic powers is useless - instead, it's what's letting them survive despite being inexperienced kids going up against proper soldiers.
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Nov 21, 2015 22:26
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ImpAtom posted:"An antagonist dying which motivates their ally and friend and/or an antagonist getting an upgrade that replicates the major advantage the protagonist has" are not teally reaching. They might not happen but people seem to have this bizarre idea that IBO is a show made of nothing but unpredictable shocking events and that it could never do anything so mundane as a regular mecha show and it's getting kind of silly. I don't personally buy that either will get Whiskers because it would involve a new kind of adult-installable Whisker but that isn't impossible. it's not that IBO is actually shockingly original, but it does feel fresh and presenting the revenge/ethically questionable upgrade angles as-is would feel stale and out of place. not to mention the latter is probably impossible given Whiskers only work on kids, and usually kill them anyway. i think Gjallarhorn souping up their Gundam or developing some kind of less terrible Whisker system would be a good way to even things out if Mika improves.
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Nov 21, 2015 22:27
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I do think IBO is deliberately choosing to buck Gundam clichés in a lot of places, though, so hopefully it also dispenses with that stuff.
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Nov 21, 2015 22:35
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Lemon Curdistan posted:I do think IBO is deliberately choosing to buck Gundam clichés in a lot of places, though, so hopefully it also dispenses with that stuff. What sort of cliches do you think it's choosing to buck? It's well-written so far but I'm having a hard time thinking of the Gundam cliches it is entirely subverting. At the end of the day it's still about a group of supernaturally talented pilots with an incredibly strong mobile suit battling corrupt adults in order to protect a princess-style character.
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Nov 21, 2015 22:41
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No surly teenager falling into the cockpit, no masked antagonist, factions that aren't really at war with each other, no home colony being destroyed, people are competent professionals for the most part (especially the children) and the antagonists seem to be mostly sensible people (Conrad aside). On a smaller level, no beam spam and no massed MS battles (yet). It's not ~breaking every cliché~ but it definitely feels a lot fresher than a lot of the Gundam stuff in the last decade or so, which makes me hope it will try as hard as it can to not just rehash the same tropes.
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Nov 21, 2015 22:55
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Lemon Curdistan posted:No surly teenager falling into the cockpit, no masked antagonist, factions that aren't really at war with each other, no home colony being destroyed, people are competent professionals for the most part (especially the children) and the antagonists seem to be mostly sensible people (Conrad aside). On a smaller level, no beam spam and no massed MS battles (yet). I can't really agree with most of this. While "teenage pilot falls into a Gundam" is a Gundam cliche it's far from the only Gundam cliche. Both of the previous child soldier Gundam protagonists were the designated pilots of their machines, not random kids who wandered into a mecha for example. Frankly Mika is closer to that because his organization just happened to have a super-powerful Gundam they weren't using. Ditto for the home colony thing and the competent professionals thing. The lack of a masked antagonist is true. (Though I will point out you could say the same thing of Gundam 00 at this point in the series, though I really hope IBO can avoid a Bushido situation.) The lack of beamspam is refreshing as hell, I admit. The smaller-scale MS battles are neat but absolutely not really new for Gundam. Many of the series have MS battles down to a small handful of robots for the early parts. I absolutely disagree with the 'the antagonists are mostly sensible people.' By and large the vast majority of antagonist characters we've seen have been cartoonishly evil adults who delight in hurting children or taking bribes or seem to actually get off on fighting. There are reasonable people on the side but they're surrounded by complete shitheads. None of that really feels like subverting Gundam cliches to me except the beam thing. (Which is admittedly a cool thing and I hope it sticks around.) It's absolutely not a case where it's a Gundam Unicorn/Gundam Age "cling desperately to Gundam tropes" situation but it doesn't feel like it's intentionally subverting stuff either. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 23:03
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Lemon Curdistan posted:No surly teenager falling into the cockpit, no masked antagonist, factions that aren't really at war with each other, no home colony being destroyed, people are competent professionals for the most part (especially the children) and the antagonists seem to be mostly sensible people (Conrad aside). On a smaller level, no beam spam and no massed MS battles (yet). Mikazuki may be more experienced than the average Gundam protagonist, but he's absolutely a surly teenager, and the raid on the CGS base seems to fit the standard 'hometown attack forces protagonist into Gundam' thing pretty well. Two large warring factions is pretty optional for Gundam as a whole, too - one small group of friends against the whole solar system is far from unknown for the franchise, going right back to ZZ. Just look at Wing, for instance, and try to figure out what the sides are there.
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Nov 21, 2015 23:05
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So is Destiny the best gundam because it subverted the most tropes....?
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Nov 21, 2015 23:05
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Tae posted:So is Destiny the best gundam because it subverted the most tropes....? Well, I don't think "tropes' are bad. Like yeah, it sucks if they include a masked dude for no reason other than Gundam had a masked dude but a lot of things that happen regularly in Gundam shows happen a lot because there's only so many ways a plot can go. If your basic idea involves a teenager ending up inside a powerful war machine you're going to basically be limited in how it can be presented. IBO is doing a good job of making a cohesive setting with sensible motivations and likable characters which matters a lot more than 'another Gundam series did it."
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Nov 21, 2015 23:16
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ImpAtom posted:Frankly Mika is closer to that because his organization just happened to have a super-powerful Gundam they weren't using. There's no indication that the Gundam is super-powerful. It seems to be an obsolete piece of junk that they're barely keeping moving, worth only the power its reactors can produce. All its prowess comes from the AV system. Which, to be fair, is just another way of saying that the hero is super-special, except in a tortured way. But the machine itself doesn't seem all that great. Like, nothing in the story even hints that it's a good machine.
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Nov 21, 2015 23:22
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