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feedmegin posted:Uh how many M1s, MLRS and tac nukes does it have I'm pretty sure the answer to all of those is "none", but there's at least 1 P.D. in upstate new york that has a  GavinThere's also this beautifully titled article, although you should know that the N.Y. Post is garbage. But you know, Fort Hamilton is a garrisoned post. NYC used to have some reasonably serious fortifications back in the days when the only way to get across the Atlantic was by boat. Now they're all museums, or plugged-up cannons prominently put in parks. How do you think Battery Park got its name? Keldoclock fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 16:56
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Xiahou Dun posted:I thought witches were hanged, and only heretics were burned. Witches often turned out to be heretics, too. Sometimes it's really awesome what torture can make someone tell, right?
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Nov 21, 2015 17:31
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Raenir Salazar posted:Thanks! This is good. I looked into it a bit more out of curiosity, and it looks like my number on NYPD was actually quite low. There's about 22,000 patrol officers, but another 12,000 detectives, sergeants, lieutenants, captains, and chiefs (and wow that level of bureaucracy really makes me wince). Then there's somewhere around 15,000 academy cadets, auxiliaries, school resource officers, and meter maids, for a grand total of around 50,000 NYPD-affiliated personnel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_Department The big military base in New Jersey is known as Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst (an awkward name indicating the three constituent bases that were consolidated to form it). To my understanding, it has significant air mobility forces there, as well as a large army training and readiness command, and a relatively smaller naval aviation research unit. There are only 12 joint bases in the country, which should help indicate its size. In the event of a hypothetical attack on New York (either of the moose-mounted Canadian variety, or MechaGodzilla v. The Statue of Liberty) the army readiness units there would be fairly well prepared to respond, as they are some of the most experienced combat veterans in the nation. Depending on the season, there's also a good chance that they would be playing host to other military units engaged in readiness training, which would supplement their numbers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Base_McGuire%E2%80%93Dix%E2%80%93Lakehurst There are also a vast number of other potential sources of military responsiveness in the vicinity of New York, beginning with the 10th Mountain Division in Fort Hood (5+ hours north), other relatively nearby naval and air combat units, reserve and national guard units in the surrounding states, and even the cadets at West Point, but due to geographical/logistical concerns they probably wouldn't be the first on the scene. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_Mountain_Division_(United_States) Kaal fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 17:34
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Kaal posted:The big military base in New Jersey is known as Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst (an awkward name indicating the three constituent bases that were consolidated to form it). To my understanding, it has significant air mobility forces there, as well as a large army training and readiness command, and a relatively smaller naval aviation research unit. There are only 12 joint bases in the country, which should help indicate its size. In the event of a hypothetical attack on New York (either of the moose-mounted Canadian variety, or MechaGodzilla v. The Statue of Liberty) the army readiness units there would be fairly well prepared to respond, as they are some of the most experienced combat veterans in the nation. Depending on the season, there's also a good chance that they would be playing host to other military units engaged in readiness training, which would supplement their numbers. JBMDL doesn't have any substantive AC army at it, it is air mobility and a bunch of reserve stuff. The Global Response Force (GRF)is a single brigade of the 82nd on a 72 hour worldwide deployment timeline, along with two of the Ranger battalions and a variety of mostly classified SF stuff. If there were a crisis involving some sort of territorial incursion in CONUS that is who would respond to it militarily. The ARNG or some random brigade from Drum (fort hood is in texas) or west point (lol) aren't going to be participating in anything like this.
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Nov 21, 2015 17:57
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bewbies posted:JBMDL doesn't have any substantive AC army at it, it is air mobility and a bunch of reserve stuff. JBMDL nominally has the 174th Infantry Brigade, which is a training and preparedness force. Dix has a big live-fire training facility. Good point about Fort Drum/Fort Hood though, that was a typo. Anything like what, exactly? I mean it's a completely unspecified threat level. If we're talking about NYPD fending off the invading horde of _______ with their shotguns and AR-15s, then certainly the national guard, 10th Mountain and the cadets at West Point are well-within the realm of possibility. I mean in the real world, anyone attacking New York would be detected far away and greeted with a carrier battle group (unless we're talking about Pennsylvania's secret Quaker Army, or the Chinese Combat Mole Division) - so any eventuality that includes New York being invaded is already a Tom Clancy affair. Kaal fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 18:28
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The logistics of "Who/what would respond and in how long in a military crisis" is one of those fascinating things to me. In an actual poo poo hits the fan emergency, the specifics and procedures of what actually happens always struck me as one of those things where it isn't common knowledge what happens.
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Nov 21, 2015 19:05
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Raenir Salazar posted:The logistics of "Who/what would respond and in how long in a military crisis" is one of those fascinating things to me. In an actual poo poo hits the fan emergency, the specifics and procedures of what actually happens always struck me as one of those things where it isn't common knowledge what happens. I think it has a lot to do with how unlikely the event in question here is. I don't think even a NYC boogaloo of the Paris attacks would cause that kind of full-scale US military mobilization in the NYC area.
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Nov 21, 2015 19:21
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Libluini posted:Witches often turned out to be heretics, too. Not only did they worship the devil, but they worshipped THE WRONG DEVIL.
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Nov 21, 2015 19:27
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PittTheElder posted:I would also like to know this answer to this. This is from a few pages back, but what most people refer to as a carburetor on MOST WWII aircraft engines (including the R-1820 you're talking about,) were actually pressure carburetors, which are a lot more like throttle-body mechanical fuel injection, and a lot less like the needle-and-float SU carbs that Rolls Royce used on early Merlins, and the carburetors people are familiar with from cars. Nakajima used needle and float carbs on early Sakae engines in the A6M as well, with similar results. MrYenko fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 19:42
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100 Years Ago The Italians at Fourth Isonzo are starting to chisel out tiny sections of the enemy line to occupy. It's not much, but it is achieving slightly more than gently caress-all. The blokes in Mesopotamia are massing just outside Ctesiphon, where they'll surely be able to put the enemy to flight once more (insert hollow laughter here). Bernard Adams continues describing how a working party comes into being with some excellent dry humour and valuable insight, and Flora Sandes's field ambulance gets the word to move out sharpish.
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Nov 21, 2015 20:03
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Cythereal posted:I think it has a lot to do with how unlikely the event in question here is. I don't think even a NYC boogaloo of the Paris attacks would cause that kind of full-scale US military mobilization in the NYC area. Oh definitely not. The NYPD would probably take care of that on its own. Besides its existing Emergency Service Unit SWAT teams, it has built its own special counter-terrorism unit known as the Critical Response Command. The New York National Guard would eventually get put on the streets, just like in Paris, but otherwise it would remain a fully civilian affair. Probably the closest equivalent that we have to France's GIGN would be the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team, but the HRT team is based at Quantico in Virginia, and it would take at least a couple hours for them to respond. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/nyregion/new-york-police-form-counterterrorism-force-with-more-firepower-and-training.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Police_Department_Emergency_Service_Unit Throatwarbler posted:The NYPD is like the equivilant of a Guards Tank Army. feedmegin posted:Uh how many M1s, MLRS and tac nukes does it have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuk8AOjGURE&t=111s Kaal fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 21:45
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VanSandman posted:How does the pike part of the shot-and-pike era compare to other massed pole-arms throughout history? Is there a reason why the long-pole phalanx of Alexander and his successors would've been outdated besides not having guns? I don't know jack about polearms. A sarissa is a pike. Alexander's army could serve as the pike portion of a shot-and-pike army with some minor retraining, more or less.
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Nov 21, 2015 23:18
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Jazerus posted:A sarissa is a pike. Alexander's army could serve as the pike portion of a shot-and-pike army with some minor retraining, more or less. Why did pike and shot armies Pikes not carry shields, but Ancient ones did? Too heavy to carry around when a shot will go through it, and breastplates were good enough?
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Nov 22, 2015 00:21
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Comstar posted:Why did pike and shot armies Pikes not carry shields, but Ancient ones did? Too heavy to carry around when a shot will go through it, and breastplates were good enough?
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Nov 22, 2015 00:34
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Jazerus posted:A sarissa is a pike. Alexander's army could serve as the pike portion of a shot-and-pike army with some minor retraining, more or less. Aren't phalanxes used much more aggressively than pike blocks? Heavy emphasis on the charge?
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Nov 22, 2015 00:48
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HEY GAL posted:You need both hands to do the thing. I've always wondered why the sarissa dudes carried shields, and how. It was strapped to the left arm and supported by a shoulder strap, which made wielding the sarissa easier, as well.
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Nov 22, 2015 00:52
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HEY GAL posted:You need both hands to do the thing. I've always wondered why the sarissa dudes carried shields, and how. They strap it to their arms like in this picture  They carried shields because it was the best way to protect your torso back then. Classical metallurgy was not very good at producing big sheets of metal. Cuirasses like the one in the picture were difficult to make and didn't allow for articulation points. A big wooden shield was relatively simple to make, and coupled with a big helmet and set of greaves, protected the entire body. The Lone Badger posted:Aren't phalanxes used much more aggressively than pike blocks? Heavy emphasis on the charge? The early Macedonian army was trained to a point where they could do all sorts of maneuvers, including just up and running their pikes into somebody. On the other hand, Successor States had a hard time organising anything more than a slow walk into melee, and then trying to hold out for the cavalry. You might also be thinking of the Greek phalanx charging the Persians at Marathon. There are lots of interpretations of ancient Greek warfare, and I think they are all equally valid and equally bonkers.
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Nov 22, 2015 01:00
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you can run with a pike
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Nov 22, 2015 01:12
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HEY GAL posted:you can run with a pike But can you drink with a pike?
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Nov 22, 2015 01:12
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Panzeh posted:But can you defenestrate with a pike?
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Nov 22, 2015 01:14
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How big is the room? 
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Nov 22, 2015 01:15
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HEY GAL posted:you can run with a pike Panzeh posted:But can you drink with a pike?
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Nov 22, 2015 01:20
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darthbob88 posted:As an individual, probably, but how well can you keep formation while running? That sounds like a good way to get into Bad War. I was told by a prof (years ago) that the Greeks had battle songs they would sing, with a continually increasing tempo. They would start at a walk and be at a full run by the time they got to the opponents' line, with the song serving to keep everyone in step. Most opponents broke and ran rather than face a phalanx like that. Needless to say, proper selection of a battlefield and lots of drilling mattered a lot, as someone falling could cause a lot of problems. Don't know if that's still accepted theory, or if it's been discarded.
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Nov 22, 2015 01:31
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So I was wondering, what the lightest tank of that's armored well enough to stop to .50 BMG? I'm watching the new terminator and not to spoil anything, but I'm mentally replacing all the robots with T-70s and it's really improved the movie, in my opinion.
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Nov 22, 2015 01:47
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The T-34 actually grew out of a project to make just that, so the A-20 is probably a good reference for what you want.
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Nov 22, 2015 02:40
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Ensign Expendable posted:The T-34 actually grew out of a project to make just that 
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Nov 22, 2015 02:44
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Well, the Soviets did have teletanks, which are kind of like robots.
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Nov 22, 2015 03:05
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Ensign Expendable posted:Well, the Soviets did have teletanks, which are kind of like robots. Lack of ability to aim meant they pretty much were limited to flamethrowers.
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Nov 22, 2015 03:09
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Deteriorata posted:I was told by a prof (years ago) that the Greeks had battle songs they would sing, with a continually increasing tempo. They would start at a walk and be at a full run by the time they got to the opponents' line, with the song serving to keep everyone in step. Most opponents broke and ran rather than face a phalanx like that. OTOH IIRC The Spartans were especially famous for being able to maneuver at full speed while keeping formation and a lot of thinking went into things like using skirmishers (to punish the enemy for not keeping in formation) or chasing off skirmishers (handpicking the youngest and fittest men to break ranks and sprint after them) that entailed breaking the formation. Charges happened occasionally though: Marathon pretty famously. That charge your prof described is basically how the Xenophon describes the Greek mercenaries fighting in their one battle for Cyrus. So I'd call it more the exception than the rule. Only the guys who built their whole lifestyle around suppressing a slave class so they could drill endlessly did it with any regularity, and that's the kinda thing that made everyone else nervous about them.
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Nov 22, 2015 04:07
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Ensign Expendable posted:The T-34 actually grew out of a project to make just that, so the A-20 is probably a good reference for what you want. OK somebody else mentioned tanks, so I can ask this without feeling uncool: Many of you here are aware of German late war plans to standardize tank production, so that all their tanks (from 10 ton tankettes to 100 ton Maus-like but usable super heavy tanks) used the same parts supply. Was this actually a good idea? Would this have greatly simplified logistics? Ignore that Germany's enemies already did this by having very few tank types in production, as well as ignore the stomped dogshit logistical nightmare everything was in late war Germany.
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Nov 22, 2015 04:36
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Nebakenezzer posted:OK somebody else mentioned tanks, so I can ask this without feeling uncool: There's a series of experimental tanks that was documented (The E-series tanks), which would basically reduce everything down to weight classes, with individual types all being built on the same chassis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entwicklung_series If you want to simplify production, I would imagine this to be the quickest/best way to do it. I imagine it would make repairing/replacements much easier as well.
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Nov 22, 2015 04:46
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Nebakenezzer posted:OK somebody else mentioned tanks, so I can ask this without feeling uncool: I suspect this is the sort of thing that would be good.... If you could make it magically happen. But in practice you'd still have to retool all your factories, and even after you've standardised you still have to produce parts to maintain your thousands of existing tanks. In other words: https://xkcd.com/927/ And that's ignoring any technical issues.
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Nov 22, 2015 05:03
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The benefits would be dubious really, there are way to many models for no good reason and the only ones who have significant commonality would have been the E-50 and E-75. And said commonality means you end up with the lighter tank being heavier and more expensive than it should be, as parts designed for a 75 ton tank would be overkill on a 50 ton one in most cases. And the fact is that German tank production was never going to be competitive with the US and USSR, even if they had started producing T-34 verbatim. It's not so much to do with the design of the tank as it is with the design of the factories. German production was building tanks like locomotives, basically building the tank in one spot in the factory, with a group of craftsmen building a single tank and doing various tasks over multiple days. The USSR imported it's factory designs from the US (Albert Khan, the man who designed half of Detroit, built the Stalingrad Tractor Plant and his firm was under a consulting contract for most of the '30s for basically every industrial building in the USSR), and they both used assembly techniques pretty much identical to car factories, where a tank would be moved along the factory to sequential stations with dedicated jigs and staff who would perform a single assembly step. The German system was much more flexible, and you can see them making adjustments all the time, since it doesn't really impact production, and needs a lot less setup time, but it's slower and you need skilled people as they do a lot of different things. The US way takes quite a bit of effort and lead time to setup, the factories are larger and much more rigid, but once it's operational it's faster and you can train more or less anyone for the majority of the jobs. Compare and contrast :  German PzIII assembly (disregard the Neubaufahrzeug in the front I'm not sure what is it doing there), you can see them parked side by side, all are at the same stage of assembly. You have workbenches for each station and the tanks will probably stay there for a significant amount of time.  Detroit Arsenal plant building Shermans, this is where they dropped the turrets on the tanks, you can see the gantry crane on top, and how every tank in the 3 lines gains a turret at the same time. All of the stations have piles of specific parts, and the tanks move along the line as soon as the specific task is done. In the industrial age, just looking at the finished product is misleading, the design process is often more about figuring out how to make the factory.
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Nov 22, 2015 06:42
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I'll ask a stupid-er question: how do they move tanks down the line? Hoisting? Driving? Can't see no conveyor belt!
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Nov 22, 2015 08:08
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Other fun things from German tank factories: workers drawing reminders on the tank hulls in chalk so they remember where in the process they are.
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Nov 22, 2015 08:11
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Earlier on in the assembly they move the hulls on casters, then on the road wheels, on angle iron tracks. Once they have tracks they are usually moving on their own. Here are the same factories, in motion, at around the same time : M3 tanks were pretty much a training run for M4 production : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbEh401VtDo And here are zee Germans : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEMSredB6nU
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Nov 22, 2015 08:31
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Kafouille posted:Earlier on in the assembly they move the hulls on casters, then on the road wheels, on angle iron tracks. Once they have tracks they are usually moving on their own. Why would they make a propaganda film of their assembly process? Wouldn't they be afraid of the opposition getting a copy (or just an agent in the theatre with a good memory and a notepad) and copying their poo poo?
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Nov 22, 2015 08:53
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6xLMUifbxQ Just a reminder where all this information is coming from, Jonathan Parshall's lecture on tank production in ww II (starts at ~26min)
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Nov 22, 2015 09:21
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xthetenth posted:Other fun things from German tank factories: workers drawing reminders on the tank hulls in chalk so they remember where in the process they are. Is that not standard practice for vehicle assembly everywhere? I do the same thing when I have to do big repairs on my Jeep, except I use whiteout.
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Nov 22, 2015 11:33
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Why would they make a propaganda film of their assembly process? Wouldn't they be afraid of the opposition getting a copy (or just an agent in the theatre with a good memory and a notepad) and copying their poo poo? Well, the short version: the propaganda film never really tells enough about the nitty gritty part of the assembly process, and also, a complete industrial process rehaul mid-conflict isn't something that's feasible.
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Nov 22, 2015 11:54
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