|
Hollismason posted:They should let Patsy Walker cross over with Doctor Strange in the film, but they're not. I'll be kind of aggravated if they don't put Luke Cage in the Avengers film that's coming up. I know Matthew Cox said his contract said he is obligated to appear on the feature side if Marvel asks. I would assume Ritter and Coulter's contract say similar things. But thematically, I think both Jess and Luke are a long way away from even appearing in the Defenders, which is the most non-team team in the Marvel Universe. They started as someone who kept their heads down and weren't heroes, kept getting hosed over every time they tried. They have no reason to stick their necks out on this.
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 20:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 08:54 |
|
|
Soothing Vapors posted:I wish the show had committed to Kilgrave and Jessica fighting crimes together for a few episodes because Kilgrave as a "good" guy was hilarious Every episode can end with Kilgrave telling the perp to kill himself in some horrible way, but Jessica stopping him and explaining why that's wrong. Then they both laugh. Then freeze frame and credits.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 20:31
|
|
|
CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Every episode can end with Kilgrave telling the perp to kill himself in some horrible way, but Jessica stopping him and explaining why that's wrong. Not sure I could handle something so emotionally draining
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 20:32
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:They did hint at it then it was just a poor me, I am the victim act. He was just a complete bastard. They do a pretty good job of explaining the way he is without forgiving it. If you, at 10, suddenly could control everyone around you, you'd probably grow up to be a complete bastard as well. I think he was genuinely mystified that people saw what he did as evil. I think it is good that they killed him though, the temptation to try to Spikify him in future seasons would be huge.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 20:32
|
|
|
notthegoatseguy posted:I know Matthew Cox said his contract said he is obligated to appear on the feature side if Marvel asks. I would assume Ritter and Coulter's contract say similar things. I am going to assume it will have something to do with IGH as they might be responsible for all or most of their powers. I forget did they show whose chemicals that blinded Matt were?
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 20:34
|
|
|
zoux posted:They do a pretty good job of explaining the way he is without forgiving it. If you, at 10, suddenly could control everyone around you, you'd probably grow up to be a complete bastard as well. I think he was genuinely mystified that people saw what he did as evil. Yeah probably. He's pretty much Ron Howard from that Twilight Zone episode. He's still a horrific person though, however he ended up that way.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 20:46
|
|
|
The Sharmat posted:Yeah probably. He's pretty much Ron Howard from that Twilight Zone episode. He's still a horrific person though, however he ended up that way. It's also a commentary on the cycle of abuse, how the abused often go on to become abusers.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 20:49
|
|
|
Just finished the show, probably gonna go down as one of my favorites. I do think the pacing is a bit off sometimes. Maybe saving the confrontation with Kilgrave and Hope after the Nuke storyline would be for the better. A couple action scenes would've been much better if Jessica didn't talk while destroying things. But I'm no writer, so whatever. All in all, walked away pretty satisfied.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 20:49
|
|
|
Enjoyed the series. Really happy with the tween star Patsy Walker thing. Nice nod the comics. Hopefully she'll get a formal nod into the Defenders as Hellcat by the time it gets filmed. Would be awesome if Netflix did a "horror" Marvel project ala Defenders, with Ghost Rider, Blade, Moonknight and Hellcat/Son of Satan. Only real nitpicks were random cop being a super-soldier and the neighbor and support group attacking Jessica, which seemed to happen simply because they needed Kilgrave freed again. The Nuke thing I can forgive, because we never really saw why Kilgrave chose him specifically for the job. If Kilgrave got involved with Reva because Luke's powers were created thanks to his parent's research project, and if the super-soldiers were also tied into that group and Jessica's IGH thing, then it makes things a lot more connected and plausible. The only real randomness thus comes in from Kilgrave stumbling across Jessica that first time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 20:51
|
|
|
zoux posted:It's also a commentary on the cycle of abuse, how the abused often go on to become abusers. Yeah his parents weren't the shits they were initially portrayed as but "Stop crying, I'm just injecting a gigantic needle into your spine. Stiff upper lip." is probably a decent reason for "No, gently caress YOU DAD".
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 20:53
|
|
|
I thought the videos showed his parents experimenting on other children as well for their own benefit. When Jessica calls that guy he's like " Good loving riddance, I didn't have anything to do with what they were involved with". Hollismason fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Nov 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:00
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:I thought the videos showed his parents experimenting on other children as well for their own benefit. When Jessica calls that guy he's like " Good loving riddance, I didn't have anything to do with what they were involved with". Kilgrave said those videos were from other facilities.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:02
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:I thought the videos showed his parents experimenting on other children as well. For their own benefit of course. I think they showed other experiments but I'm not sure it was the Kilgraves doing it. They said that his powers were a side effect of trying to treat a life-threatening disorder. Surely IGH isn't going to end up being behind JJ, Nuke, Luke Cage and Kilgrave right? That would be quite a coincidence.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:02
|
|
|
I suspect the parents were just getting funding from IGH when they somehow found out what they were doing. The guy at the university was probably pissed at them because they stole a bunch of grant money to escape.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:04
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:I thought the videos showed his parents experimenting on other children as well for their own benefit. When Jessica calls that guy he's like " Good loving riddance, I didn't have anything to do with what they were involved with".
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:04
|
|
|
zoux posted:I think they showed other experiments but I'm not sure it was the Kilgraves doing it. They said that his powers were a side effect of trying to treat a life-threatening disorder. Yeah I have a feeling that IGH will be working with the super soldier serum and that's what caused these powers. It might also be behind Daredevil.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:05
|
|
|
I really hope Hogarth is going to be in the Iron Fist series.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:05
|
|
|
Ah, I must not have heard the foreign languages. IGH obviously stands for something but not sure which Marvel Organization. I thought A.I.M. but that doesn't make sense because of the history in Iron Man 3.bobkatt013 posted:Yeah I have a feeling that IGH will be working with the super soldier serum and that's what caused these powers. It might also be behind Daredevil. I thought there was a connection between Jessica and Daredevil. Like the same chemicals that affected her were part of a convoy or something like that, which was the same convoy or chemicals that hit Matt Murdock.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:06
|
|
|
Was Nuke in the comics developed by Dept. H/Weapon X?
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:06
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:Yeah I have a feeling that IGH will be working with the super soldier serum and that's what caused these powers. It might also be behind Daredevil. Poor Matt. Everyone else gets super strength and all he gets is the ability to see.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:06
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:I thought the videos showed his parents experimenting on other children I was thinking AIM as well but that's more high tier stuff. The Defenders are normal people street level, especially Daredevil. AIM's already picked a fight with Iron Man. I feel like there's an evil company/project we're missing that would be a good choice. Weapon X program, maybe? Who was it that gave Bushwhacker his arm?
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:07
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:Poor Matt. He's Catholic, he really loves this kind of misfortune.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:07
|
|
|
Teek posted:The Nuke thing I can forgive, because we never really saw why Kilgrave chose him specifically for the job. If Kilgrave got involved with Reva because Luke's powers were created thanks to his parent's research project, and if the super-soldiers were also tied into that group and Jessica's IGH thing, then it makes things a lot more connected and plausible. The only real randomness thus comes in from Kilgrave stumbling across Jessica that first time. I doubt he knew about his spec ops training and super soldier pills or he wouldn't have ordered him to walk off the top of that building.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:10
|
|
|
zoux posted:Was Nuke in the comics developed by Dept. H/Weapon X? Yep he was part of Weapon plus program
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:10
|
|
|
Oh wait they already told us in Daredevil didn't they. It's Roxxon Energy Corporation. It makes the most sense they're this huge global conglomerate that's pretty evil. So yeah. Chaning it, IGH is Roxxon. Roxxon is also a Iron Fist antagonist as well if I remember right. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Nov 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:11
|
|
|
zoux posted:Was Nuke in the comics developed by Dept. H/Weapon X? He tortured him for days while saying "No VC" until Nuke went into a murderous rage everytime he heard that phrase. Then he cut him loose and sent him to the nearest Vietnamese village during the Vietnam war. You can fill in the blanks of what happened when they tried to plead to him by saying they weren't Vietcong.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:13
|
|
|
Patsy Walker? More like roxoff, am I right? 
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:15
|
|
|
Zsinjeh posted:In his retconned origin it was Wolverine, back when he willingly worked for Weapon X, who mentally and physically tortured Nuke into working for Weapon X, albeit brain-washed. Did Dillon draw that? I think I may have read it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:18
|
|
|
I'm way behind, but something really cool in Ep 10: I like the use of purple lighting on Robyn and Simpson's faces as they were each having their psycho moment.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:18
|
|
|
I hope Luke Cage fights the Serpent Society and their leader is Donald Trump pastiche.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:19
|
|
|
I hope everything is tied to IGH and there's a scene in the Defenders where everyone's sitting around talking about how they got their powers and Jessica, Luke, and Matt are all talking about this secret organization when Danny blurts out "I PUNCHED A DRAGON'S HEART".
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 21:57
|
|
|
This show was really good. I liked it a lot better than Daredevil overall. People saying that Kilgrave was introduced too early and they should have done some more PI procedural stuff first are loving crazy. People saying that Jessica was being dumb have this crazy idea that the good guys spent the series being on a mission to stop Kilgrave, which isn't at all what was going on. For most of the series, Jessica's plan was "stay as far away from him as possible and don't let anyone antagonize him". People saying that Hogarth's character got too much screen-time are crazy. It's basically all been said already, but Kilgrave being the big obvious literal and metaphorical rapist is just the tip of the iceberg. Even before he went all red-pill, you could tell that Simpson didn't actually believe in Jessica or Trish's ideas or goals. He paid them lipservice and then kept asserting that they didn't know how to handle tough situations and he did. He basically approached the whole situation like it was men's work that he and his boys would take care of. Then, as soon as they got blown up, he coopted the vengeance motive and acted like he needed to take out Kilgrave because he had been wronged, as though it superseded Jessica's reasons to hate him. Also Holy poo poo Simpson is a Universal Soldier. Don't understand the hate for the fight scenes. They are fine. They are brutal. All of the scene of violence except the first bar fight are really brutal. Wendy's death, holy poo poo. In a genre where blunt-force-trauma is code for "non-lethal", two people die from it in this series, and Luke almost does as well. But seriously, Kilgrave being the on-the-nose metaphor and Simpson, Hogarth, and Patsy's mom all being more real-world examples of the self-centered attitudes that foster abusive behavior is really good. Daredevil was a pretty good show, but its character were defined and developed by very straightforward plot-point motivations and their emotional development was cookie-cutter compared to Jessica Jones. I too thought that Robyn was annoying and terrible, but giving her room to grow and showing her human side was a really good example of how people write off broken victims as annoying and hysterical. Someone earlier commented that the support group lynch mob was over the top, but I think it's sort of a parallel to the pitchforks attitude that people get towards accused rapists. It was smart of the show to do this in a situation where the accusation wasn't rape, because it didn't cloud the show's messages about sexual assault, but still showed that getting a group riled up to punish a scape-goat out of guilt is not the right thing. I did not expect to like Trish Walker when she was introduced. She turned out to be a really interesting and intelligent character. Her relationship with Jessica felt very genuine and both characters constantly tried to protect the other in their own way. Trish was never a side-kick or subservient to Jessica. I liked that Trish and Jessica were both sexually aggressive, and considered their sexual partners as somewhat extraneous to their plans. It's a reversal of a pretty common plot development where the hero meets a woman, sleeps with her, and then she pledges her devotion to his cause. Often the hero in these stories wants to keep the woman safe and out of danger. This is exactly how Trish and Jessica handle Simpson and Cage. I like that Jessica Jones is both the hard drinking, hard talking private eye AND the femme fatal. edit: It's obvious that JJ got her powers from the same experimental program as Kilgrave. Since we don't know much about the Punisher origin that they are doing, I am not ruling out that he may have been involved in the same Universal Soldier program as Simpson. Yes I know that's not backed up by the comics at all, but Punisher has a lot of origins and it would be a good segue.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 22:02
|
|
|
Thinking back on the series, I really liked Jessica's relationship with Luke.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 22:09
|
|
|
I actually felt sorry for Simpson and thought it was a bit weird that the other characters didn't very much. He got violated by Kilgrave just like the others, made to do something horrible, and reacted with a desperate violent attempt to take some power back and eventually collapsed into substance abuse and murder out of paranoia. Jessica and Trish's relationship doesn't get enough love though, I agree with Snak.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 22:09
|
|
|
My major problem with Robyn was that her comic relief performance clashed with the tone, not of the series over all, but of scenes she's actually in. I mean, her search for her dead brother is played up for laughs.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 22:16
|
|
|
The Sharmat posted:I actually felt sorry for Simpson and thought it was a bit weird that the other characters didn't very much. He got violated by Kilgrave just like the others, made to do something horrible, and reacted with a desperate violent attempt to take some power back and eventually collapsed into substance abuse and murder out of paranoia. I think the reason he doesn't get a lot of sympathy from the others is that he wasn't actually sympathetic and trusting with them in the beginning. Like Hogarth, they told him the truth about the situation and trust him, and he basically said "well I can handle this, you guys are just being dumb about it" and then guess what, he was wrong and it didn't go great. If he had actually teamed up with them and treated them as equals rather than women in a man's world (of paramilitary conflict), I think he would have gotten a lot more sympathy. Really the best part of this show is that literally every character is a flawed human being. Jessica is far from perfect, Trish is not perfect, Hogarth is not perfect, Simpson isn't perfect, Luke isn't perfect. Kilgrave sure as gently caress isn't perfect. No character is acting based on logic and the best possible choice, they are all doing things because they are scared or want to be in control of their lives. The ways that people try to take control of their lives determine what kind of person they are. Being a person is why life is hard and why you might just want to give up, but it doesn't excuse hurting others. Hogarth is a lot like Trish. She has built a fortress of power around herself and refuses to let anyone hurt or control her. She will defend what has by any means necessary. Trish is also scared and has built a fortress around herself, but she will leave it if her friends need her, and she will let them in if it will help. edit: I don't disagree, but I think it's pretty good scene where Trish finds Malcolm helping put up fliers for the missing brother and is like "Are you loving serious?". Jessica doesn't want to take time to feel bad about it, because she can't hold the pain of every Kilgrave victim inside her, and she can't face the victims and try to help them directly because she is still trying to cope with her own poo poo. But Malcolm just want's to ease someone's suffering. He has been saved, someone who he betrayed save him even though it was hard, and he wants to do the same thing, even if he just has to wing it for now. It's a good scene because it shows three phases of the same trauma. Robyn is consumed by grief and Jessica is consumed by guilt, but Malcolm has made it all the way to acceptance/forgiveness. None of them are bad people, but yet everything is still hosed up. Snak fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Nov 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 22:16
|
|
|
Snak posted:I think the reason he doesn't get a lot of sympathy from the others is that he wasn't actually sympathetic and trusting with them in the beginning. Like Hogarth, they told him the truth about the situation and trust him, and he basically said "well I can handle this, you guys are just being dumb about it" and then guess what, he was wrong and it didn't go great. He was right though and Jessica eventually does see that. He was right for the wrong reasons, there's a reason Jessica is the main protagonist and not Simpson after all, but still. She does eventually do what he argued they should have been doing from the start. Snak posted:Hogarth is a lot like Trish. She has built a fortress of power around herself and refuses to let anyone hurt or control her. She will defend what has by any means necessary. Trish is also scared and has built a fortress around herself, but she will leave it if her friends need her, and she will let them in if it will help. Hogarth seems to want it for its own sake though whereas Trish just wants to feel safe after having a psycho abusive mother. EDIT: If Malcom had hit acceptance he'd already have taken her to see where her brother's body ended up. He was delaying the inevitable for similar reasons that Jessica didn't stop to "help". The Sharmat fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Nov 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 22:20
|
|
|
Snak posted:This show was really good. I liked it a lot better than Daredevil overall. People saying that Kilgrave was introduced too early and they should have done some more PI procedural stuff first are loving crazy. As one of the people saying this, I'll defend it a little. Being a PI is as much a part of Jessica's characterization as anything else. So why couldn't that have been expanded on more? One of the things that they briefly touched on is how surreal it is to continue on with your normal life when you know something like Kilgrave is still out there. There's that scene with Trish and the "rock flute player" that emphasizes this. Jessica still needs to make money somehow, after all she has to pay for booze. I would've liked to see more of her struggling to maintain her daily life while also doing what she can to stop Kilgrave. Now, this is just how I liked to see it happen. But the main issue isn't that Kilgrave showed up too early or that he was in it too much. It's that the show felt badly paced, especially in the back six or so episodes. It seemed like stuff just "happened" because they needed to draw the Kilgrave plot out for the whole season, like the infamous apartment scene. edit: Also the SuperMax episode felt like filler for the same reason. PantsBandit fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Nov 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 22:23
|
|
|
Snak posted:I did not expect to like Trish Walker when she was introduced. She turned out to be a really interesting and intelligent character. Her relationship with Jessica felt very genuine and both characters constantly tried to protect the other in their own way. Trish was never a side-kick or subservient to Jessica. I liked that Trish and Jessica were both sexually aggressive, and considered their sexual partners as somewhat extraneous to their plans. It's a reversal of a pretty common plot development where the hero meets a woman, sleeps with her, and then she pledges her devotion to his cause. Often the hero in these stories wants to keep the woman safe and out of danger. This is exactly how Trish and Jessica handle Simpson and Cage. This first point is definitely supported by the fact that any leering shots of either woman's sex life are squarely focused on the men. The sexual gaze is shifted to Luke or to Simpson (in a towel or underwear or whatever) while Jessica or Trish are generally shown clothed or covered, and never leered at. Except by Kilgrave, through his voyeur photos which are intended as a violation. Though, I don't agree that she is the femme fatale, for this same reason. She has Gal Friday-isms in her speech pattern, but she never uses her sexuality to manipulate people and is actually resentful when people *do* sexualize her. She's intentionally unkempt, constantly surly, and she actively rebuffs men's advances. A femme fatale is the opposite of these things.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 22:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 08:54 |
|
|
I swear that one of her pairs of jeans had a dip can ring in the back pocket.
|
|
#
?
Nov 23, 2015 22:29
|
|