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Tricerapowerbottom posted:Since goodpancakes seems to be getting some feedback on their g-drived resume, I made my own. Again, I am applying for basically a pest control position at a major museum, and am trying emphasis the skills I have developed over time as an amateur and volunteer, versus my actual work experience and education. Any feedback would be most appreciated: I don't know what people accepting applications in that field expect to see but here's what I can say generally: This is a huge wall of text and no one's going to read it. I highly recommend cutting it down to 1 page if at all possible by cutting down on the verbosity. Also the organization is weak overall. For instance, I don't really understand the distinction between "Skills and Relevant Experience" and "Experience" since it seems you have some jobs you worked listed under Skills and Experience. Or are these volunteer positions? I would organize these experiences under each position in 3-4 bullet points per position with each position arranged in reverse chronological order. Each bullet point should be a brief job achievement or responsibility starting with an action verb. Does listing each individual pest add anything beyond saying "most common North American museum pest"? Like are hiring managers looking for specific pests? In general, consider cutting down a lot of the bullet points. It feels like you can make the same point in 10 words that you do in 50 and that you'e fluffing up your work to sound more important. For instance, let's consider something like: "Proficiency in review of entomological, mycological, pest control, museum conservation, and art history academic literature and articles, extrapolating and recognizing practical solutions to current problems regarding conservation of museum artifacts." Or, if this is a more general skill, have a section just for skills with a few bullet points organized around a particular skill set: "Conservation: applications from literature, etc. etc." Look at goodpancake's resume as it does skills well. To my mind, this is essentially telling me very little with a ton of words. If it's part of a job or a volunteer position, it would instead make a good bullet point as something like "Implemented museum artifact conservation solutions based on current literature." How do you have 20+ years experience when the earliest work experience seems to be 2001?
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Nov 24, 2015 05:42
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Tricerapowerbottom posted:Since goodpancakes seems to be getting some feedback on their g-drived resume, I made my own. Again, I am applying for basically a pest control position at a major museum, and am trying emphasis the skills I have developed over time as an amateur and volunteer, versus my actual work experience and education. Any feedback would be most appreciated: Word has formatting, you should use it (e.g. bullet points, indents, etc.). Google the term "white space", you desperately need it in your resume. Do not list every pest, give 2-3 examples maybe.
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Nov 24, 2015 15:45
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Rosalind posted:I don't know what people accepting applications in that field expect to see but here's what I can say generally: Good points all. I will tighten the points in skills up, as, yes, I was fluffing up with the genera names to get across that I really do know what I'm talking about with insects. Insect identification and museum standards of storing biological specimens are the only things I'm truly confident about in regards to the skill desired for this job, so I was going for an "emphasis my strengths" approach. It is a hell of a lot of Latin words though, so I'll cut that stuff down. I think the reason I got wordy with it was I'm under-educated for this job, and wanted to make up for that lack of formal training with highlighting (but not embellishing) my real-life experience and knowledge. The job description, which hits on stuff from from knowing the difference between a spider beetle and a red flour beetle, to knowing how to use an x-ray fluorescence spectroscope, is intimidating, but I'm confident I can handle the learning curve, based on my experience volunteering in museums, learning how to use lab equipment, self education, and my ability to absorb hands on training very well. The 20+ years thing is both that I've been doing unpaid work in museums since I was 13, and that I figure I don't need to list my stint at Media Play or answering billing calls to Compuserve in Ohio. So I truncated my actual work experience, but didn't want to leave gaps in the timeline. calvus posted:Word has formatting, you should use it (e.g. bullet points, indents, etc.). Google the term "white space", you desperately need it in your resume. Do not list every pest, give 2-3 examples maybe. Shall do. Thank you!
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Nov 24, 2015 20:46
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After Thanksgiving, I'm making a trip to another city before heading home to do a shop visit/interview with a company, and I need some advice on how to dress for this, since it's been awhile since I had an interview, and I don't want to overdress for this one. Background: I'm currently working in a custom fabrication industry. Current employer is about 100 employees, and does project management, fabrication, installation, and a little design work. I work on the shop side, which is generally a company T-shirt, jeans, and steel toe boots. I work in the AV department, installing electronics into stuff the shop the builds. Project managers generally are in slacks/polos or a dress shirts, ties are rare except for client visits and top management. I'm looking at going to a similar company, but it's a smaller shop that does more in-house design. I've been in touch with them about moving somewhat out of fabrication and more into a design role. So: when I interviewed for my current job, it was a nice pair of jeans and a polo, and I think I nailed that - it's about a notch above what I'd usually wear for day-to-day work, and that's what I've been told to shoot for in interviews. So: for the new company, should I aim a little higher, or about the same?
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Nov 25, 2015 06:11
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Is there any way to determine that firm's dress code? Maybe linkedin stalk project managers or something to see what they're wearing in profile pictures. Check the firm's website? My firm has our dress code posted in the jobs section of the website.
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Nov 25, 2015 16:55
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Just ask your contact at the company what appropriate attire is.
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Nov 25, 2015 18:41
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Wear a suit. Would you rather be overdressed or underdressed? If they show up in polos and jeans and you show up in a suit, how will you feel? What if the reverse happened? You will never go wrong wearing a suit to an interview.
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Nov 25, 2015 19:29
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totalnewbie posted:Wear a suit.
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Nov 25, 2015 19:36
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Agreed. As much as I tell just about everyone in the white collar world to do it, there are plenty of companies and industries where it just isn't called for. Whatever dress level you go for, make sure your shirt/pants are wrinkle-free and all the other little stuff like nice (matching even) shoes/belt, etc. Just look like you're trying and you want it. Apathy may in fashion elsewhere, but it's not cool when you're trying to convince an employer that you want to work for them.
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Nov 25, 2015 19:41
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Vulture Culture posted:there are lots and lots and lots of company cultures that will look at you as a clueless tryhard if you show up way overdressed, always just ask unless you're going on a string of interviews in the same outfit Maybe if you're interviewing for a job at Target, but if it's any sort of job where you have some qualification some random schmuck off the street wouldn't have, I can't see how wearing a suit would result in: 1. Being overdressed and not having it count against you 2. Being overdressed, having it count against you, and a big sign that the people working there are way too immature. I get that you can show up overdressed, but if people hold that against you, I don't see how in any way that is a good sign about the work environment.
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Nov 25, 2015 21:45
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If they're really going to judge you for "overdressing" then that's definitely not a place I would want to work. How incredibly petty! My workplace is a t-shirt and jeans-level environment and I certainly never begrudge a candidate for showing up in a nice dress or suit.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:35
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Vulture Culture posted:there are lots and lots and lots of company cultures that will look at you as a clueless tryhard if you show up way overdressed, always just ask unless you're going on a string of interviews in the same outfit
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Nov 25, 2015 23:57
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Vulture Culture posted:there are lots and lots and lots of company cultures that will look at you as a clueless tryhard if you show up way overdressed, always just ask unless you're going on a string of interviews in the same outfit If the company is so low on professionalism to look down on someone for wearing a suit they probably won't be in business for that much longer.
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Nov 26, 2015 00:04
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I got some help a few months ago here but still on a job hunt: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11AitwHrs09ckEnEnoyJ09w_oU-hJRPT5E2zcb8PyvfI/edit I'm looking at entry-level, t1 IT support, or even temp jobs are OK. I get some calls but mostly it's a day to day progress of no replies. background: I'm 23 and I've only had 1 job so not a ton of exp/references/contacts to work with in NYC. Also, some people said I should volunteer or join a club but not really sure how that'd help me out 
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Nov 26, 2015 01:38
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totalnewbie posted:I get that you can show up overdressed, but if people hold that against you, I don't see how in any way that is a good sign about the work environment. Dik Hz posted:The only time not to wear a suit to an interview is if you're explicitly told not to wear a suit. Blinkz0rz posted:If the company is so low on professionalism to look down on someone for wearing a suit they probably won't be in business for that much longer. Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 04:49
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Vulture Culture posted:Wear a suit to an engineering manager interview at Facebook, a company where the founder and CEO literally wears hooded sweatshirts at shareholder briefings, and let me know how that goes He can do that because he founded the company. Wear a hoodie to an engineering manager interview at Facebook and see how THAT goes, tbh.
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Nov 26, 2015 05:11
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Vulture Culture posted:This is a beautiful sentiment that, while probably true for the baby boomer generation, is about as true today as the maxim that you should show up in person to hand your resume to the HR clerk so they know your face. What is universally true is that you should understand the culture of the companies and teams that you're applying for. Yes, most companies won't frown on you for wearing a suit. Some will. Would you wear a 3-piece suit for an interview as a line cook at a pub? Then don't wear it someplace where the company culture is equally casual. I wasn't aware that line cook jobs at pubs involved resumes and formal interviews. But if they did, I would dress nice for the interview. Why not? At my company, it not unusual for candidate to be introduced to the CEO or the CFO in passing. Would you rather be wearing a suit or a polo in that case?
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Nov 26, 2015 15:20
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totalnewbie posted:He can do that because he founded the company. Wear a hoodie to an engineering manager interview at Facebook and see how THAT goes, tbh. Dik Hz posted:It's still true. You want to convey to the people interviewing you that you take the opportunity very seriously. A suit does that a lot better than a hoody and jeans. And you're probably going to be interviewing with at least one baby boomer, so maybe you shouldn't write them off.
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Nov 26, 2015 17:37
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totalnewbie posted:He can do that because he founded the company. Wear a hoodie to an engineering manager interview at Facebook and see how THAT goes, tbh. Dik Hz posted:It's still true. You want to convey to the people interviewing you that you take the opportunity very seriously. A suit does that a lot better than a hoody and jeans. And you're probably going to be interviewing with at least one baby boomer, so maybe you shouldn't write them off. Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 17:37
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Vulture Culture posted:This is a good point -- that's literally the only other thing you could possibly wear. There is no spectrum of formality in clothing: you may either dress like a high schooler or in full sartorial funeral attire. lmao, you really think that wearing a suit and tie is that formal? Do you live in the real world?
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Nov 26, 2015 18:00
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Vulture Culture posted:This is a good point -- that's literally the only other thing you could possibly wear. There is no spectrum of formality in clothing: you may either dress like a high schooler or in full sartorial funeral attire. Vulture Culture posted:This is yet another bad, damaging false dichotomy, because I wouldn't be making a blind and uninformed decision about what to wear. I would be doing the exact thing I recommended everyone do for every interview -- understand the company's culture, understand the interview process, and dress appropriately for the people I will or may be meeting.
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Nov 26, 2015 18:13
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Dik Hz posted:I wasn't aware that line cook jobs at pubs involved resumes and formal interviews. But if they did, I would dress nice for the interview. Why not? Dik Hz posted:Why are you so angry? Would you ever think less of someone because they wore a suit to an interview? Because if so, congratulations, you're that guy. The one the rest of us are talking about when we say that if someone thinks less of you for wearing a suit on an interview it is a red flag that they're a giant douche who you don't want to work for. Judging someone for overdressing isn't a thing I would do, just as it's a thing you wouldn't do. However, people should be aware that a) some people like this guy will actively discriminate against people in a suit  or this idiot  b) people who don't actively discriminate are still subject to biases in hiring, and companies full of fart-smelling self-professed countercultural THE MAN whatevers (see above) are likely to count your style of dress as a strike against "culture fit" even if they don't outright condescendingly ask why you wore a suit (like I was asked when I interviewed at Daylife back around 2009) c) some amount of toxicity exists in every company culture, beggars can't be choosers, some people just need a job and it's better to be aware of these biases and get the job than not and be unemployed Conclusion: yes, be aware that some things are signals that you might be better off not working for a company. Also be aware that this is a real thing, and make your own decisions like a grown rear end adult about how to approach the job instead of deliberately wearing the wrong thing to the interview because of some dumb rule e: and if for whatever reason you can't find out about the company culture, a suit is a sensible default Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 18:27
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Vulture Culture posted:Smart casual is pretty standard practice in the restaurant and catering industries; suits are more for management interviews. Chef's whites are a better option if you're expecting to actually cook something. Rather than just grabbing something out of the closet, you should know whether you're showing up to talk or showing up to work. There's all kinds of interview situations that are completely context-dependent. 1 guy on twitter with 11 retweets from 4 years ago and 1 craigslist ad from a brewery that doesn't "plan, budget, forecast, or waste time on getting bigger" doesn't exactly help your argument. Anyone who is biased against suit wearers in their hiring practice is a place you shouldn't want to work at because there's probably a lot of structural issues lying under the surface. It's loving 2015. A suit is appropriate for any business meeting. If you don't think that's the case there's something wrong with you, not the suit wearer.
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Nov 26, 2015 18:53
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Blinkz0rz posted:1 guy on twitter with 11 retweets from 4 years ago and 1 craigslist ad from a brewery that doesn't "plan, budget, forecast, or waste time on getting bigger" doesn't exactly help your argument. Anyone who is biased against suit wearers in their hiring practice is a place you shouldn't want to work at because there's probably a lot of structural issues lying under the surface. Blinkz0rz posted:It's loving 2015. A suit is appropriate for any business meeting. If you don't think that's the case there's something wrong with you, not the suit wearer. Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Nov 26, 2015 |
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Nov 26, 2015 19:33
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It's almost as if software engineers and non-software engineers have different cultures when it comes to workplace and interview attire. I am shocked, shocked I tell you
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Nov 27, 2015 13:32
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Vulture Culture posted:I cannot possibly make it any clearer that this is not about me, this is about hiring managers people will meet in the world. If you want to ignorantly believe that people with these opinions don't exist, or that they're one in a million, or that the biases of one hiring manager automatically determine the entire remaining portion of a company's culture, do it. But don't spread bullshit that might hurt the chances of someone actually trying to land a job, because this is the resume and interview thread, not a Zimbio "What's Your Perfect Company Culture?" quiz. If people know what to wear, they're not turning to an internet thread for advice. If they don't know what to wear, a suit is a good idea.
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Nov 27, 2015 14:18
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jaete posted:It's almost as if software engineers and non-software engineers have different cultures when it comes to workplace and interview attire. I am shocked, shocked I tell you It's not even, though. It's a tiny subset of software engineers, not the hiring managers, who conduct technical interviews that look down on people wearing suits. It's stupid and no reasonable company would ever pass on a hire because the interviewee was wearing a suit. Ever.
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Nov 27, 2015 15:10
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jaete posted:It's almost as if software engineers and non-software engineers have different cultures when it comes to workplace and interview attire. I am shocked, shocked I tell you Dik Hz posted:For every person with the belief that overdressing for an interview somehow makes you less qualified, there are at least 10 that believe underdressing for an interview is a sign of disrespect. Just look at this read. You're raging semi-incoherently about it, while the rest of the thread is making reasonable suggestions. Are you even a hiring manager? I was a hiring manager for a Fortune 100 media company and a world-renowned life sciences research organization. While I never had a problem revolving around suits, I did have to work around other biases in my hiring decisions, including ones around engineering candidates who were underdressed. More importantly, I've been on a lot of interviews in my career. I've talked to a lot of recruiters and hiring managers about how to get the right candidates. I've learned a lot about the way people use gut-level heuristics to assess candidates. Blinkz0rz posted:It's not even, though. It's a tiny subset of software engineers, not the hiring managers, who conduct technical interviews that look down on people wearing suits. The way you phrased this last sentence makes it clear that you have no clue how hiring biases work, at all. No reasonable person would pass on a candidate because they're black or because they're a woman either, yet we continue to see hiring and pay disparities in many industries because our presuppositions are deeply engrained culturally, and they shape our perceptions from the outset. Someone with a hood accent might be perceived as unintelligent or conniving no matter how articulate they are otherwise, and any woman at all is more likely to be graded on her personality than her professional qualifications. These sorts of biases might cause us to perceive someone as unintelligent, or unqualified, or the wrong kind of personality. Similarly, some people have biases against people who show up overdressed: stuffy, humorless, overly corporate, image-obsessed, narcissistic. This affects the way a candidate is perceived. Their qualifications may be minimized at a gut level.
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Nov 27, 2015 16:18
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Vulture Culture posted:The way you phrased this last sentence makes it clear that you have no clue how hiring biases work, at all. No reasonable person would pass on a candidate because they're black or because they're a woman either, yet we continue to see hiring and pay disparities in many industries because our presuppositions are deeply engrained culturally, and they shape our perceptions from the outset. Someone with a hood accent might be perceived as unintelligent or conniving no matter how articulate they are otherwise, and any woman at all is more likely to be graded on her personality than her professional qualifications. These sorts of biases might cause us to perceive someone as unintelligent, or unqualified, or the wrong kind of personality. Similarly, some people have biases against people who show up overdressed: stuffy, humorless, overly corporate, image-obsessed, narcissistic. This affects the way a candidate is perceived. Their qualifications may be minimized at a gut level.
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Nov 27, 2015 18:53
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Dik Hz posted:Did you seriously just equivalate being black with having a hood accent?
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Nov 27, 2015 19:06
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Vulture Culture posted:The way you phrased this last sentence makes it clear that you have no clue how hiring biases work, at all. No, I'm aware, I've hired a number of staff before and everytime I try to think about how my personality and biases impacted the interview. All I'm saying is that if you're interviewing for software engineering jobs (which seem to be one of the only white collar industries that care about this sort of thing) wear a suit. If you get passed over and the suit was the deciding factor, you probably don't want to work there anyway.
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Nov 27, 2015 21:21
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Blinkz0rz posted:If you get passed over and the suit was the deciding factor, you probably don't want to work there anyway. You know this is the entire part of your statement he's taking issue with. It's a nice idea in theory, but for quite a few people finding A Job is more important than finding The Job.
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Nov 28, 2015 01:22
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I always have to laugh at how often "well you probably don't want to work there if X" gets thrown around in this thread. Like yeah you're probably 100% right, but not working there doesn't pay my bills.
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Nov 28, 2015 02:21
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tbh if you're interviewing at the kind of company that looks down on people for wearing suits to an interview you're probably not hurting too badly
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Nov 28, 2015 04:19
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Blinkz0rz posted:tbh if you're interviewing at the kind of company that looks down on people for wearing suits to an interview you're probably not hurting too badly
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Nov 28, 2015 04:30
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AbrahamLincolnLog posted:I always have to laugh at how often "well you probably don't want to work there if X" gets thrown around in this thread. But a short stint at a poorly run company can have a negative impact on your hireability. Several short stints make you look like a serial job-hopper, or that you don't take direction well. And there are a couple companies where if I see them on a resume, I flat out won't hire the candidate. Because of how dysfunctional they run their R&D laboratories, I don't want to have to un-train before I train.
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Nov 28, 2015 14:43
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Blinkz0rz posted:1 guy on twitter with 11 retweets from 4 years ago and 1 craigslist ad from a brewery that doesn't "plan, budget, forecast, or waste time on getting bigger" doesn't exactly help your argument. Anyone who is biased against suit wearers in their hiring practice is a place you shouldn't want to work at because there's probably a lot of structural issues lying under the surface. In the Silicon Valley technology industry you are flat-out wrong and there is clearly nothing anyone can say that will convince you of that fact. Showing up for an (non-sales) interview at Faceooglehoo! in a suit will create negative first impressions among the people who are interviewing you. I've heard it countless times. Nobody says in the hiring committee "could you believe it, this douchebag showed up in a suit? Get a load of Moneypants McGee over here!", it's always "Well, I got the impression he wasn't really a culture fit" and boom, you're dead. "ALWAYS WEAR A SUIT BECAUSE SUIT SUITY MCSUIT SUIT SUIT SUIT" is bad advice. Do you really expect people to believe that Google, Facebook, Amazon, PayPal, etc. are all places with "lots of structural issues"? Come on. I also agree strongly with Dik Hz's thoughts on not wanting to work at a place. Your resume tells a story, and if it tells the story of "I take jobs out of desparation" then you shouldn't be surprised if the only jobs you can get are places you'd only work at out of desperation.
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Nov 29, 2015 19:38
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Vulture Culture posted:This is a beautiful sentiment that, while probably true for the baby boomer generation, is about as true today as the maxim that you should show up in person to hand your resume to the HR clerk so they know your face. Its important to understand the companies in the US don't think of you as a person, any attempt to change that and you will be met with a lot of hostility
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Nov 29, 2015 20:59
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I think the two people ranting against suits in this thread have never had a properly tailored suit, tbh.
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Nov 30, 2015 00:39
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Question about contracting vs. full-time. Say I've been contracting at a company, which at first was a huge step up for my career, but have had my contract ended/extended/ended/reanimated/botched/reanimated again several times over the year...I'm talking 5-6 times...Do I bother going for full-time at that point? On the bright side I have a ton of references from different parts of the company. I don't trust anyone when they say being full-time is so much better, because my view of this company's ability to handle hiring me is poor. Ideally I'd go somewhere else but I fear doing the contractor/temp dance again.
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